"Change Cycling Now"
So some people have set up a group to campaign(?) for change in cycling
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13397 ... group.aspx
Opinions?
Some interesting peeps involved, Walsh, Kimmage, Vaughters, Vroomen, LeMond .They ve also added a fans voice in the shape of - http://www.cyclingfansvoice.org/ which involves one of the velocast pair and...erm...festinagirl)
Not sure about this to be honest....
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13397 ... group.aspx
Opinions?
Some interesting peeps involved, Walsh, Kimmage, Vaughters, Vroomen, LeMond .They ve also added a fans voice in the shape of - http://www.cyclingfansvoice.org/ which involves one of the velocast pair and...erm...festinagirl)
Not sure about this to be honest....
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver
- @ddraver
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which is concerning in itself...How exactly is festina girl going to campaign for Transparency without even telling us who she is?!?!?
- @ddraver
You'll get a load of idealistic proposals which are largely impractical in real life and mostly legally untenable. But as they'll never have to put them in to practice they're free to say what the hell they like. (A bit like the LibDems before Clegg decided he'd actually like to get involved)
But it'll largely be a session of back-slapping and self-congratulation. And a few dopers lecturing clean athletes.
As for the self-appointed fans voice - well it's not the voice of the majority that's for sure. Certainly not me.
A bottom up initiative among riders that embraces a sea change is what's required but I fear the incumbent top echelons will seek a tokenistic gesture to appease protest groups but won't tackle the grooming of young riders that embeds beliefs that winning at any cost is acceptable.
The end.
WADA won't let you do either of them. Look what they did to BOA's Olympic ban.
Start again.
Yep. I had big doubts anyway but when I saw that Emma O'Reilly's lined up for their press conference on Monday, that's just confirmed things for me. WTF does she have to do with the future of cycling? No, its just about 'look what we did to bring down Lance, the Grand Poobah (sp?) of doping'
Then the absolute final straw was that self-righteous viscious tweeter...
Enough already. File under WASTE OF TIME
How are they instituted? From where do they gain their legitimacy? I don't see why an independent body couldn't or shouldn't exist; particularly if the existing bodies aren't joined up and are ineffectual.
Yeah, don't get me wrong - I've just signed up. Yes please to change.
http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/ro ... ganisation
So do we think it's a good thing or a bad thing now then ?
Kind of feel like the UCI is Sauron and the one ring is the status quo. Both are looking for each other, both "want to be found"*. The UCI is desperate for things no to change so any opposing sides need to be extremely well organised or they ll be too easy to dismiss.
Cyclismas are a good example, any good stuff is ignored becasue it's too easy to point to all the rubbish they ve produced and just say the whole thing is irrelevant.
Bruyneel is already having a crack, if they make one or two mistakes, it ll be easy for others to follow...
*think I might have breathed to deeply past that coffee shop...
- @ddraver
All great change happens when someone sticks their head above the parapet. In this case, those sticking their heads up are those that have rocked the foundations.
More power to their elbow, and I'll add my (real) name to their (our) cause.
When the Armstrong affair was in the national news, Walsh (who is more of the more reasonable ones) was on Radio 5 and they asked him what he would have done with US Postal in the UCI's position. He said he would have looked at their HCT numbers, said this isn't right and thrown them out of the sport. Dictatorial, illegal and the start of lawsuits that would have bankrupted the sport. That's the level they will pitch this at. They may come up with some good ideas - but I won't hold my breath with this lot.
And if you want to have a meeting, just get on with it. Don't send out press releases calling it a 'summit'. It makes you look pompous.
Three times TdF winner Le Mond. On the firnges? He is one of the great clean names of the sport. If they are the aggeived idealists who have no idea, I'd still take them ahead of Fat Pat and his cronies anyday.
There are no greater defenders of the status quo than those who would have us do nothing.
And what position does LeMond hold in the sport other than ex-pro?
When Armstrong was winning his last Tour, Kimmage was writing off the career of a young talented clean rider called Gilbert, Wiggins was barely trying on the road, focussing on the track and Vaughters was starting up a small team committed to clean cycling.
Now Gilbert is world champion, Wiggins has won the Tour and Vaughters' team has won the Giro.
Something has clearly changed. Who made that happen? It certain wasn't down to LeMond, Fuller and Festinagirl.
So has Pat gone? Did I miss that?
'dope, dope dope, dirtie Bertie, Piti, Vino, sport ruined doping dope Armstrong cheating b*stards,
Oh wait, whats that, some people calling for a change and want to stamp out doping - F*cking censored 'ole pompous b*astards, who the f*ck are they anyway'.
And Rich
I think the idea of calling press conferences is probably to get it out there, get the media to take notice, help pile a bit more pressure on Pat and co, no? Lets just let them sit in a little room behind closed doors where nobody can hear about it, support it, get behind the campaign and actually make it work. :roll:
I'm sorry the whole thing involves your arch enemy Kimmage, but surely anything like this is good for the sport, and the more publicity the better.
Which fan are they representing? Mfin? Me? You? Frenchie? The drunk Basque guy on the Tourmalet? The YAnk in the Borat Mankini on the Alpe? All have an equal claim to cycling...
- @ddraver
"You're so against doping!"
"No you are!"
"Oh but you're better!"
Why not invite the UCI, or Brian Cookson or somebody already involved with the governance of cycling in at least as a sounding board. And what good does inviting an anonymous loudmouth who's only involvement in the sport is libelling it's practitioners achieve? Who does she represent?
Another political organisation waiting to happen and as a gentleman at Atlanta airport once said to my brother "Sheeeeeet, what do we need more politicians for?"
@gietvangent
Thats all very well and I agree there are some interesting selections in there, but surely it comes down to nothing more than 'something is better than nothing'.
- @ddraver
@gietvangent
Greg Lemond getting a look-in at the heavily Thom Weisel-influenced* USA Cycling?
mwah ha ha...
*it's been linked before, but I never tire of looking at this...http://velorooms.com/files/ArmstrongBusinessConnections.pdf
As long as you focus on personalities or personal histories you'll always fnd reasons to dislike people and exclude them from the campaign.
I work with people with a diverse range of mental health problems and pesonality disorders to have a voice and change the services they receive. Despite being maligned by society they have a lived experience of a mental health condition or personality disorder that is the very reason to include them in the discussions, plus people are more than one dimensional and have skills, abilities and interests that help campaigning and change easier.
Similarly, people who've worked and lived in the doped up world of cycling have that lived experience and is the very reason to involve them in the campaign for change. Put aside your judgemental attitude of the individuals and focus on what talents and abilities they can bring to the party. This may not be the right vehicle so design a better one rather than being dismissive of this first attempt.
I don't always agree with LL but on this I do; I see no value in such nihilistic and self-destructive navel gazing from Pro Race to a campaign for change.
They were formed the IOC. And UNESCO provide the international "law" basis for it. So all countries sign up to a UNESCO convention which basically gives WADA their power.
I think it was Howman who said recently that yes, maybe an independent pan-sport testing is a good thing, but there isn't a way of doing it.
We don't need so much of the judgemental attitude from you either thanks, I believe I ve made my points clearly, fairly, here and to festina girl and velocast.
I'm afraid you ll have to tell me what an ex soigneur and a Nobody (her choice) from twitter can bring to the discussion. I can see why Velocast are they as they provide even handed, balanced discussions of Cycling even when they actually feel very strongly one way or the other on the particular issue. If they are the BBC, Festina Girl is the Daily Mail. Worse, she is there ot campaign for transparency from UCI, Teams and others witout even providing her real name. Simply, that's too easy a place for people that something to hide, to hide behind themselves.
I hope the CCN campaign works, but to be honest I don't see how a fans voice can possibly work, or why it is necessary. I can't think of another sport with such a voice...I can only see it as a stick to beat people with real power to change the sport with.
- @ddraver
My suspicion though is that is more about continuing to keep Ashenden et al in the public eye and giving a wider, more "insider" platform to the anonymous libellers on Twitter than about effecting genuine change.
@gietvangent
Again. you're attacking the person rather than what they bring to the table, and there's a certain irony in attacking people for anonymity on the internet. From my experience people often begin by bringing their own agenda to the table but they often leave or are subsumed by the greater good as long as the organisation has good leadership.
So what's the alternative? I saw the grooming of the top ranks of continental amateurs back in the early '90s into drug taking which is why I advocate a bottom up approach. If nations and teams pursue clean cycling and the whistleblowing on drug taking to an organisation outside of cycling (e.g. WADA) then it sends a clear message to the top echelons of cycling that it's not acceptable.