Drugs in other sports and the media.
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Having directly seen the aftermath/fallout of this particular journalist's creative editing a few years ago I don't trust him at all. Problem is, there was some good stuff mixed in there.Insta: ATEnduranceCoaching
ABCC Cycling Coach0 -
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Joelsim wrote:jawooga wrote:I don't want to pre judge the program and apparently there's no evidence that Mo has doped. However there has long been criticism of lack testing in the running heartlands of east Africa and I always thought athletes such as Mo and Rupp leave themselves open to suspicion when they go to Kenya for winter training.
The main thing that you are missing is that testing is almost useless. Something I've been banging on about, to many people's chagrin, for months. The testing can't catch people whilst they are doing it, passport or spot tests. No sport is anywhere near clean.
Errm. Not sure I missed that. But thanks
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Nice to see it's all working out for 33 year old Justin Gatlin whose enjoying an amazing record breaking Autumn of his career http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/330168840
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ben@31 wrote:Joelsim wrote:I gather there was someone else who could have been in that programme too, but the lawyers are obviously very good. Give it time though.
Yep, I've heard many times now on the BBC News and Radio that quote " The BBC are not making any allegations against Mo Farrah". Despite mentioning his name many times in a doping documentary. Sounds like they're covering their butt against libel defamation.
Whats also worth noting is... "None of the NOP athletes has ever failed a drug test, but the BBC has heard claims". Basically the BBC just have hearsay or speculation.
I wonder if all sports like NFL, baseball, World Cup winning soccer teams, have a PED problem too? And it's not just PEDS, did rugby league have a problem with pain killer abuse?
I think RL (in this country at least) is partly insulated from real performance enhancement by the lack of money in the game. Until recently it was mandated that 20 of the 25 players on a super league roster couldn't be paid more than £40k salary. Terry Newton was banned for Growth Hormone, but he cooperated in naming suppliers etc and it just seemed to be a local gym dealer.
There have been a few lads down the pyramid busted for steroids too, which is more worrying.
And then there's Gareth Hock, but he's in his own class of dumb."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Finally caught up on the panorama program last night. All I can say is…..meh. Did not really say anything that anyone with a passing interest in doping in sport doesn’t already know. Really did not warm to the reporter, even to the point I was willing him to be wrong about the cheats, his reaction to taking EPO was a joke, fake tears in his eyes and all. Could have some serious repercussions for Mr Farah though, got his lawyers busy I am sure, although I am praying that he has not been involved in anything at all, it would be devastating after following his successes over the past few years.
Also, the program could have been half the length if the journo didn’t……….pause…..…for…….effect……..between……..every…….sentence.
As for all the athletes acting shocked on Twitter, come on, they must all know it goes on.0 -
Who is she talking about:
@KellySotherton 49m49 minutes ago
All these people who think its easy not to miss tests. You do it for a year and see how you get on. It's not as easy as you all suggest
@KellySotherton 1h1 hour ago
the media has just cast a big suspicion of doubt over one our biggest sports stars. If true show me the evidence, if not stop ruining a lifeContador is the Greatest0 -
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Ah thanks. Missed a test eh. Oh Mo Oh Mo. Never was much of a believer of him doing it clean as a whistle.Contador is the Greatest0
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Who is she talking about:
@KellySotherton 49m49 minutes ago
All these people who think its easy not to miss tests. You do it for a year and see how you get on. It's not as easy as you all suggest
@KellySotherton 1h1 hour ago
the media has just cast a big suspicion of doubt over one our biggest sports stars. If true show me the evidence, if not stop ruining a life
Mo Perhaps. she's sticking up for a fellow gooner perhaps?0 -
Missed 2 tests.0
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Missed 2 tests.
"Can't work a doorbell" - allegedly. Whether he is or he isn't, this is a great opportunity for the state broadcaster to wrest control of the Olympic 'family' [sick] from the dream-weavers in light entertainment. Their standard coverage is worse than 'Thought for the Day'....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
this has come from the Daily Mail and with no data on any other gold medal winners it's a bit meaningless, although the BBC have put in data from UKAD
Missing it is better than doing a Chambers and answering the door with the cream still on you0 -
I personally have no doubt that all sports have problems with doping an performance enhancing methods that are outside of what is allowed. Athletics had it's big drugs cheat issue (like LA in cycling) back with Ben Johnson. It took actions after that and after every case that comes across their radar. I have no doubt IAAF anti-doping procedures are in place to investigate these allegations. Indeed I think (with no evidence only my gut feeling) athletics is at the forefront of anti-doping investigations, research and you could say anti-doping war. I think where athletics went and goes now other sports take onboard and follow.
I guess you can see I am a fan of athletics (as well as cycling) so perhaps biased.
As far as the Galen Rupp allegations go, I did not watch the panorama show BTW, I have my doubts there is a truth there. IIRC the improvement made was well within what could be expected due to changes and improvements in his training. Wasn't his improvement carried out over a few years?
As far as the allegations made in the panorama programme I always have my doubts about such programmes. They are about entertainment first and campaigning second. I believe in stamping out doping and cheating in sport but not with entertainment. If a reporter has allegations and evidence then give it to the authorities and run the story around that.
Am I right in thinking he tried some performance enhancing drug for a period to see the effects it had on him? I am running on inference from what others have said since I do not have the time to watch the Panorama programme (not that I want to since I see that strand as a bit sensationalist and uses questionable standards of journalism IMHO). If that is true then it is irresponsible journalism. It reminds me of that programme where the GP presenter took worm cysts so he could see how it grew in the space of a few weeks. At least that was compete fact in that there was no questionable science only nature doing what nature does albeit with artificial introduction for the sake of entertainment.
One more thing, as a fan of athletics I do not care one iota if the allegations implicate a national sporting treasure or one of our greatest distance athletes. Get the evidence out there into the light so it can be confirmed or discredited. I would prefer a stain on an athlete's career only for them to be cleared over doping to get away with it. The total opposite of innocent until proven guilty in some ways I know but if there is any shred of evidence then get it out to the anti-doping bodies. However I do not hold with hearsay and conjecture based on improvements in performance that could be within the realistic realms of legal improvement methods (training, diet, etc.).0 -
if we hadn't heard all this stuff 10 years + ago in cycling then maybe it would get a pass but all the excuses seem the same. The accusations against Salazar seem to be from within the Oregon Project. Unfortunately for Farah, 5h1t sticks. Did his performance massively improve when he went to the Project or just a gradual increase?M.Rushton0
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this has come from the Daily Mail and with no data on any other gold medal winners it's a bit meaningless, although the BBC have put in data from UKAD
Missing it is better than doing a Chambers and answering the door with the cream still on you
a bit better but still suspicious? the whole athletics and missing a test, surely the athlete will be forewarned of a test, right?
I fear this could snowball. Twitter is having a (track and) field day...0 -
FFS. When your career and reputation depends on being available for testing during a nominated hour each day then surely to your favourite deity you organise yourself so you can hear the f*cking doorbell.0
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As far as the Galen Rupp allegations go, I did not watch the panorama show BTW, I have my doubts there is a truth there. IIRC the improvement made was well within what could be expected due to changes and improvements in his training. Wasn't his improvement carried out over a few years?
You might find this a little more in depth than the Panorama programme.
https://www.propublica.org/article/former-team-members-accuse-coach-alberto-salazar-of-breaking-drug-rules
http://www.propublica.org/article/more-athletes-say-track-coach-alberto-salazar-broke-drug-rules0 -
I personally have no doubt that all sports have problems with doping an performance enhancing methods that are outside of what is allowed. Athletics had it's big drugs cheat issue (like LA in cycling) back with Ben Johnson. It took actions after that and after every case that comes across their radar. I have no doubt IAAF anti-doping procedures are in place to investigate these allegations. Indeed I think (with no evidence only my gut feeling) athletics is at the forefront of anti-doping investigations, research and you could say anti-doping war. I think where athletics went and goes now other sports take onboard and follow.
I guess you can see I am a fan of athletics (as well as cycling) so perhaps biased.
As far as the Galen Rupp allegations go, I did not watch the panorama show BTW, I have my doubts there is a truth there. IIRC the improvement made was well within what could be expected due to changes and improvements in his training. Wasn't his improvement carried out over a few years?
As far as the allegations made in the panorama programme I always have my doubts about such programmes. They are about entertainment first and campaigning second. I believe in stamping out doping and cheating in sport but not with entertainment. If a reporter has allegations and evidence then give it to the authorities and run the story around that.
Am I right in thinking he tried some performance enhancing drug for a period to see the effects it had on him? I am running on inference from what others have said since I do not have the time to watch the Panorama programme (not that I want to since I see that strand as a bit sensationalist and uses questionable standards of journalism IMHO). If that is true then it is irresponsible journalism. It reminds me of that programme where the GP presenter took worm cysts so he could see how it grew in the space of a few weeks. At least that was compete fact in that there was no questionable science only nature doing what nature does albeit with artificial introduction for the sake of entertainment.
One more thing, as a fan of athletics I do not care one iota if the allegations implicate a national sporting treasure or one of our greatest distance athletes. Get the evidence out there into the light so it can be confirmed or discredited. I would prefer a stain on an athlete's career only for them to be cleared over doping to get away with it. The total opposite of innocent until proven guilty in some ways I know but if there is any shred of evidence then get it out to the anti-doping bodies. However I do not hold with hearsay and conjecture based on improvements in performance that could be within the realistic realms of legal improvement methods (training, diet, etc.).
Wow. Just wow.0 -
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Wasn't his improvement carried out over a few years?
Mo was distinctly average through to 2009 (aged 26) after which he trained for a winter with the Kenyans and did the 5/10 double at the Euro champs in 2010. He joined Salazar's team in Feb 2011 since when he's kicked ar*e in a major fashion.
If his career progression had happened 5 or 6 years earlier I'd give him the benefit of the doubt, but becoming a world beater aged 27/28 usually means only one thing (or at least a cocktail of things!)0 -
this has come from the Daily Mail and with no data on any other gold medal winners it's a bit meaningless, although the BBC have put in data from UKAD
Missing it is better than doing a Chambers and answering the door with the cream still on you
a bit better but still suspicious? the whole athletics and missing a test, surely the athlete will be forewarned of a test, right?
I fear this could snowball. Twitter is having a (track and) field day...
Isn't there a massive flaw in the 1 hour a day system. If you know the glow time of what you are taking, surely you can just make yourself available at a time you will come up clean. I know the passport system it meant to help but if you micro dose then it can all look normal.0 -
You can rest assured that there will be dozens of journalists looking for evidence on Mo at the moment, so expect this to be the first of many articles.
This may be of interest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POIB7n2vPAI&feature=youtu.be0 -
this has come from the Daily Mail and with no data on any other gold medal winners it's a bit meaningless, although the BBC have put in data from UKAD
Missing it is better than doing a Chambers and answering the door with the cream still on you
a bit better but still suspicious? the whole athletics and missing a test, surely the athlete will be forewarned of a test, right?
I fear this could snowball. Twitter is having a (track and) field day...
Isn't there a massive flaw in the 1 hour a day system. If you know the glow time of what you are taking, surely you can just make yourself available at a time you will come up clean. I know the passport system it meant to help but if you micro dose then it can all look normal.
That's my understanding - micro dose EPO at bedtime and you're clear for the testers between 7am and 8am. Most folk nominate breakfast time for their hour, though this also has many advantages from a legitimate logistical viewpoint.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19628423#p19628423]Wallace and Gromit[/url] wrote:this has come from the Daily Mail and with no data on any other gold medal winners it's a bit meaningless, although the BBC have put in data from UKAD
Missing it is better than doing a Chambers and answering the door with the cream still on you
a bit better but still suspicious? the whole athletics and missing a test, surely the athlete will be forewarned of a test, right?
I fear this could snowball. Twitter is having a (track and) field day...
Isn't there a massive flaw in the 1 hour a day system. If you know the glow time of what you are taking, surely you can just make yourself available at a time you will come up clean. I know the passport system it meant to help but if you micro dose then it can all look normal.
That's my understanding - micro dose EPO at bedtime and you're clear for the testers between 7am and 8am. Most folk nominate breakfast time for their hour, though this also has many advantages from a legitimate logistical viewpoint.
Realistically you have to be a fool to get busted, it's almost impossible if you follow a simple process of timings and don't take too much. Steroids of course are a bit different as they glow for much longer. But the drugs that are so prevalent in endurance sports are very easy it would appear.0 -
I have my doubts about Panarama and the Daily Mail, but I have no doubt about Farah and Salazar. Similarly, my opinion is pretty clear about Armstrong and Ferrari.0
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Oh boy listening to that Mo Farah presser, not only does he have an odd voice and manner he looks like he is happy to throw the man who made him what he is under the bus :roll:
He also says he does 120 miles a week. Seems a lot!Contador is the Greatest0 -
The one hour system just dictates that the athlete must be at the stated place for that hour. It doesn't mean that that is the only time they can test you. They can turn up and ask to test you at any time between 6am and 11pm.this has come from the Daily Mail and with no data on any other gold medal winners it's a bit meaningless, although the BBC have put in data from UKAD
Missing it is better than doing a Chambers and answering the door with the cream still on you
a bit better but still suspicious? the whole athletics and missing a test, surely the athlete will be forewarned of a test, right?
I fear this could snowball. Twitter is having a (track and) field day...
Isn't there a massive flaw in the 1 hour a day system. If you know the glow time of what you are taking, surely you can just make yourself available at a time you will come up clean. I know the passport system it meant to help but if you micro dose then it can all look normal.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Oh boy listening to that Mo Farah presser, not only does he have an odd voice and manner he looks like he is happy to throw the man who made him what he is under the bus :roll:
He also says he does 120 miles a week. Seems a lot!
What's he on? He's on the road busting his ass...
I don't like it but as a Pro-Cycling fan I can only really see this going one wayWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19628412#p19628412]Wallace and Gromit[/url] wrote:Wasn't his improvement carried out over a few years?
Mo was distinctly average through to 2009 (aged 26) after which he trained for a winter with the Kenyans and did the 5/10 double at the Euro champs in 2010. He joined Salazar's team in Feb 2011 since when he's kicked ar*e in a major fashion.
If his career progression had happened 5 or 6 years earlier I'd give him the benefit of the doubt, but becoming a world beater aged 27/28 usually means only one thing (or at least a cocktail of things!)
I was referring to the Galen Rupp allegations with that bit you snipped. There was something about his improvement happening over more than just a year and earlier in his career.
BTW, what sort of age do most distance athletes peak? Could it be about 26/27/28 years old? Shorter distances I believe happen earlier but distance later in general. Anyone know if it is reasonable to be on the edge of the top level (by this I mean getting on the start line of major races but never getting close to the medals) to suddenly hit the top in the space of a year training in Kenya at altitude? What changes happen to your body's capabilities when you train at altitude? Could that account for moving from 13:09 in 2009 to 12:57 in 2010 and 12:53 in 2011?
Those are the best times for those years in 5k over the years you mentioned. He actually did 13:40 in 2006 then rose to 13:07 the year later before slowing a bit in the years to 2010 when he went sub13 for a few years. A 2% improvement in time I think over the 2009 through 2011 period. My source is the power of 10 site that is linked from English athletics profile of him if you want to take a look. Interesting site if it is accurate.
No idea how relevant this data is as I am not an expert, I'll leave that role to others on here. I am only putting it out there for comment. Are those really impossible improvements without cheating?0
