Drugs in other sports and the media.

ddraver

Dorset Boy wrote:

I'm old enough to remember an All Black stud piercing the cheek of JPR Williams, following a stamp to the head, and a similar occurance to Jon Callard. I also remember the deliberate assault on Brian O'Driscoll in the first test in 2005.

I have no sympathy for any All Black who is on the wrong end of foul play - they've dished our far more than they've ever received, and generally got away with it.

99% that, but still, ball sack....oooof! :shock:

yorkshireraw

Just had a poor response from David Walsh on Twitter when I enquired if he was going to dig into Doping in Rugby - 'bulking up and doping are not the same thing'. This from the man who 'knew' there was still a problem with Cycling still in '99 and refused to write about anything else. Come Saturday Walsh will be tweeting with glee about the action at the 6 nations games.

Seems the Journo hospitality at Twickenham etc. is too good to pass up. Ironically his LA Confidential writing partner Pierre Ballister (sp?) has recently released a book about doping in French Rugby.

salsiccia1

YorkshireRaw wrote:

Just had a poor response from David Walsh on Twitter when I enquired if he was going to dig into Doping in Rugby - 'bulking up and doping are not the same thing'. This from the man who 'knew' there was still a problem with Cycling still in '99 and refused to write about anything else. Come Saturday Walsh will be tweeting with glee about the action at the 6 nations games.

Seems the Journo hospitality at Twickenham etc. is too good to pass up. Ironically his LA Confidential writing partner Pierre Ballister (sp?) has recently released a book about doping in French Rugby.

That is disappointing from him. It's virtually an open secret that lower-level Welsh rugby has a big PEDs problem.

yorkshireraw

This came just after he had been banging on (rightly) about Coe's comments ref. Russia in Athletics - Walsh agreed with someone it was disappointing when 'Anti-doping campaigners' change their tune when they get into power.... or offer completely different views on different sports when both have clear probs.


Re. Welsh Rugby - absolutely. I know of a lad (good standard player) who started at a Welsh Uni back in September and within 2 weeks had been told he wasn't big enough and should get on the gear. He's 6ft5 FFS. His Dad went to see the Uni Principle about it and got completely fobbed off. The lad is not trying for the Firsts now but wants to play so is happy to stay in the 2nds. They still have them doing 2-3 massive weight sessions a week in the mornings, with evening field practise.

ddraver

In fairness to Walsh it's time for someone else to step up and do the digging now. I think he's deserved his comfy opinion pieces into retirement...

yorkshireraw

ddraver wrote:

In fairness to Walsh it's time for someone else to step up and do the digging now. I think he's deserved his comfy opinion pieces into retirement...

Maybe but he shouldn't be quite so sycophantic about Rugby given how much he says cheating goes against everything he believes sport should be.

I've got more respect for Jeremy Whittle who admits he had a blind spot with regards to Armstrong earlier in his writing career but is now very clear in what he says and how he now views sport.

ddraver

Maybe everybody should be angels and forever strive to seek the truth above all things

...or maybe we re just human beings

yorkshireraw

I get your point but Walsh has now put himself on this platform of un-relenting anti-doping crusader, with his books, speaking tours etc.
It's the absolute refusal to even raise the subject with regards to his other favourite sport that irks. If it's in your blood (!) to ask questions then you'd expect that to be applied elsewhere. He's banging on about Coe / IAAF going soft on Russia etc. but has a complete blind spot ref. Rugby - I don't believe he's that naïve as to what it takes to become a 15 or 16 stone full back and still be swift. He just doesn't care because he likes watching the game too much (with a free beer and food in hand) to spoil it. In '99 he didn't like cycling much (and the hospitality probably wasn't up to much for Journos.)

gsk82

There's a big fuss in Australia atm regarding NRL players dealing cocain. A number of players from the Gold Coast titans, in particular, have been linked with the story.

bobbydazzla

gsk82 wrote:

There's a big fuss in Australia atm regarding NRL players dealing cocain. A number of players from the Gold Coast titans, in particular, have been linked with the story.

Wouldn't be surprised if this was true.

I lived in Australia a few years back and saw plenty of groups of NRL players on nights out and was surprised by how many appeared to have been taking recreational drugs - eyes like saucers and non-stop chewing in nightclubs at 6 in the morning.

I remember seeing a star player from the Australian national team in a club and he was clearly off his head, gurning and eyes rolling all over the place.

Pross

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/31949668

Reminds me of cycling 15 years ago. Show how hard you are on dopers by pursuing some minor person no-one has ever heard of whilst leaving the big names at the top of the sport alone even though there's strong rumours about some of them. Different media reaction though, this comes across as very much 'one bad apple' rather than 'they're all at it, dirty sport'.

The_Boy

Does tennis test for EPO yet? I remember an interview with someone possibly from the LTA, buti can't remember. Anyway, their argument was that tennis didn't have an EPO problem, therefor there was no need to test for it.

sherer

The_Boy wrote:

Does tennis test for EPO yet? I remember an interview with someone possibly from the LTA, buti can't remember. Anyway, their argument was that tennis didn't have an EPO problem, therefor there was no need to test for it.

Works for football so why shouldn't tennis do the same

shockedsoshocked

Pross wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/31949668

Reminds me of cycling 15 years ago. Show how hard you are on dopers by pursuing some minor person no-one has ever heard of whilst leaving the big names at the top of the sport alone even though there's strong rumours about some of them. Different media reaction though, this comes across as very much 'one bad apple' rather than 'they're all at it, dirty sport'.

Wasn't it Murray who whinged about having to submit to OOC tests, saying it was some sort of breach of the players human rights to have to give testers there where abouts etc or some other nonsense along those lines?

The bell end.

RichN95.

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

Wasn't it Murray who whinged about having to submit to OOC tests, saying it was some sort of breach of the players human rights to have to give testers there where abouts etc or some other nonsense along those lines?

The bell end.

He used to. But he did a complete U-turn in his opinion sometime between 2009 and 2012. Since then he's called for more stringent testing.

Murray in 2009: http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2009/f ... drug-tests
Murray in 2012: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/tenn ... 31546.html

Pross

Probably around the time he got fed up with being beaten by a player that may or may not have been caught up in Op Peurto

salsiccia1

Pross wrote:

Probably around the time he got fed up with being beaten by a player that may or may not have been caught up in Op Peurto

Wash your mouth out. Tennis doesn't have a drugs problem, it's only filthy dirty cycling that does.

jimmocrates

Just had Morning Line on in the background - they were talking/discussing rider weights. Without batting an eyelid, one of the ex-jockeys on the panel just says how they used "pee-pill... you know - diuretics" in his day.

Not exactly a revelation, but doesn't eve raise an eyebrow amongst anyone there.
At least the guy is open about it. There is absolutely no shame about the routine doping that went on.
But why is Cycling vilified to such a greater extent when doping is rife and unrepentent in other sports?

*Still no idea how I ended up watching the Morning Line

above_the_cows

Doping to keep your weight down as a jockey is a little different to doping to improve cardio vascular ability or muscle strength as a cyclist though.

I'm not saying that weight has no bearing on performance in horse racing but it all gets a little bit complicated when you throw in the element of another living creature i.e. a horse. Weight of the jockey will have an effect on the speed of the horse but this only one factor. Being light as a jockey is not enough.

You also need to look at doping of horses. This is no doubt rampant in horse racing where the money stakes are so high, there is some testing but its fairly minimal. It is heavily policed in lesser horse sports where there is less money. In Eventing for example you cannot use topical veterinary creams with traces of cortisone, in fact someone lost an Olympic medal for such a thing at Athens I think it was when the test results came back some weeks later with traces of cortisone. Yes cortisone was a band substance but no one in the horse world up to that point ever bothered to check the creams they'd been using for years and the amount in a cream would have no effect on the performance of a horse but as with all these things how do you know it was just from the cream?

Still being a jockey is a thoroughly unpleasant business and not just in terms of physical health, mental health really suffers too and it can be a nasty bullying environment and horribly exploitative, especially at the lower end. Thoroughly rotten business all round is horse racing when you scratch the surface.

p.s. did you know that all horses in Europe have the equivalent of an ADAMS. An equine passport that contains all their veterinary history, owner records and must be carried at all times when they are being transported anywhere.

jimmocrates

Above The Cows wrote:

Doping to keep your weight down as a jockey is a little different to doping to improve cardio vascular ability or muscle strength as a cyclist though.

I'm not saying that weight has no bearing on performance in horse racing but it all gets a little bit complicated when you throw in the element of another living creature i.e. a horse. Weight of the jockey will have an effect on the speed of the horse but this only one factor. Being light as a jockey is not enough.

You also need to look at doping of horses. This is no doubt rampant in horse racing where the money stakes are so high, there is some testing but its fairly minimal. It is heavily policed in lesser horse sports where there is less money. In Eventing for example you cannot use topical veterinary creams with traces of cortisone, in fact someone lost an Olympic medal for such a thing at Athens I think it was when the test results came back some weeks later with traces of cortisone. Yes cortisone was a band substance but no one in the horse world up to that point ever bothered to check the creams they'd been using for years and the amount in a cream would have no effect on the performance of a horse but as with all these things how do you know it was just from the cream?

Still being a jockey is a thoroughly unpleasant business and not just in terms of physical health, mental health really suffers too and it can be a nasty bullying environment and horribly exploitative, especially at the lower end. Thoroughly rotten business all round is horse racing when you scratch the surface.

p.s. did you know that all horses in Europe have the equivalent of an ADAMS. An equine passport that contains all their veterinary history, owner records and must be carried at all times when they are being transported anywhere.

All fair and valid points. In horse racing though, there is minimal benefit to be had from having greater HCT/HB and greater relative advantage in lower weight.
There are probably gaping holes in the point I am trying to make as I'm not a big horse racing aficianado, but the main point is that other sports use Prescription Only Medicines for sporting reasons rather than clinical reasons without being held up to account in the same way as cycling has been.

PS: Especially agree that the majority of jockeys get a really crap deal.

andyrac

I'm pretty sure diuretics are now banned for jockeys. Too many occasions were dehydrated riders had problems/ issues.

Anonymous

Pross wrote:

Probably around the time he got fed up with being beaten by a player that may or may not have been caught up in Op Peurto

Is that the same guy who tore his shoulder muscle and a few weeks later won a grand slam?

dolan_driver

Here is a significant little story with regard to Irish sport.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic- ... 09889.html

The player's representative body and the GAA is leaning towards the "head in the sand" approach of "nothing to see here, we'll give him a hug and it'll be OK".

DD.

joelsim

Dolan Driver wrote:

Here is a significant little story with regard to Irish sport.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic- ... 09889.html

The player's representative body and the GAA is leaning towards the "head in the sand" approach of "nothing to see here, we'll give him a hug and it'll be OK".

DD.

Blood testing to start next season.

"Yes, you've got blood. Next".

dolan_driver

More head-in-the-sand, nothing-to-see-here bluster from the president of the GAA. The player has apparently doped but even if the B-Sample is positive, it still isn't "cheating". Well, what is it, then?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic- ... 11516.html

Both the GAA and Irish Rugby have gone on the offensive against those making accusations of drug-taking within their respective sports. Didn't cycling do the same some twenty years ago or so?

DD.

salsiccia1

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/may/15/craig-chalmers-son-sam-anabolic-steroids-rugby-union

No_Ta_Doctor

Young wealthy man does a bit of Charlie, gets caught:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... ocaine-ban

I've never been bothered about what recreational drugs anyone does in their spare time, though as a stimulant I suppose it could be used during a match...

RonB

Speaking of nothing to see here ...

Matt Slater @mattslaterbbc
Strewth, Justin Gatlin has just won the 100m in Doha at 9.74, he was 3m clear. That's a PB & best time this year...he's 33

shinyhelmut

RonB wrote:

Speaking of nothing to see here ...

Matt Slater @mattslaterbbc
Strewth, Justin Gatlin has just won the 100m in Doha at 9.74, he was 3m clear. That's a PB & best time this year...he's 33

Steve Cram wrote:

Personal best at 33 for Justin Gatlin.

"Whatever his secret is, he might want to keep it to himself."

LeePaton

No tA Doctor wrote:

Young wealthy man does a bit of Charlie, gets caught:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... ocaine-ban

I've never been bothered about what recreational drugs anyone does in their spare time, though as a stimulant I suppose it could be used during a match...

That is really silly I work, well did redundancy is a fickle woman, with people who have frequently passed tests for the marching powder three days after taking it. The general consensus seems too be 48 hours and it is gone... a few have been caught in that window.