I am withdrawing from SCR (w/ HIM Mallorca 2014 Race Report)

greg66_tri_v2.0

Update:

This is week 29 (to go). Last week was week 30 - my first full week of training. Lots of fun. Hmm.

Running is still at issue. In early Jan, at 8 weeks post the most acute phase of my injury, I tried a run on the wettest soggiest grass I could find on the common. Absolute max of 12 minutes, no matter how good I felt, I thought.

I lasted less than two. Every footfall from first to last was pinging away at the femoral neck.

Somewhat dispirited, I returned home. 6 hours later, Plan B was in place.

Plan B consisted of abandoning the purchase of a treadmill and instead acquiring a NordicTrack Classic Skier. Surprisingly hard to locate, but an effective piece of kit. I'm going to sub in XC ski sessions for runs until I can run again, then taper in running volumes whilst tapering down XC ski volumes.

Back to last week. A Tacx has been invaluable. Up at 6, straight on it for 45 mins of riding the first part of the IMC bike course courtesy of Google earth. Saturday AM: 1 hour riding up Ventoux (it would be a lie to say that I rode up Ventoux in an hour; it is a big, steep, mofo-er. From 16km to the summit onwards, the gradient barely ever dips below 9%).

Swimming. Ah, the joy of swimming. Two sessions last week, with 2500m target in 1 hour. Managed 1800 then 2100m in the hour. As I reflected during the Thursday session, the last time I did proper lane swimming was 14 years ago.

The swimming distances seem nuts: the swim leg is 3800m, and from the off, you're doing 2500m. Which is like saying: "Right-o. Week 1. Just knock out a couple of 18 mile runs, or a couple of 75 mile bike rides, will you?". But I *think* the reasoning is that swimming is low impact and therefore the easiest way into building an aerobic base without undue risk of injury. We shall see.

Anyway, so far, so good. Monday is a rest day. Odd how "training anxiety" kicks in even at this stage at the prospect of doing nothing for a day.

Doing this on a 5:2 diet is, well, interesting too. Not sure how long that will last...

rubertoe

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

Update:

Doing this on a 5:2 diet is, well, interesting too. Not sure how long that will last...

How you working on the diet Greg? what days do you have off? and what are you eating on those off days, assuming that on the off days its 500 calories?

More importantly is it working as this is something that I am considering.

greg66_tri_v2.0

rubertoe wrote:

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

Update:

Doing this on a 5:2 diet is, well, interesting too. Not sure how long that will last...

How you working on the diet Greg? what days do you have off? and what are you eating on those off days, assuming that on the off days its 500 calories?

More importantly is it working as this is something that I am considering.

(a) It works. Really well. I started in October, and took two weeks off over Xmas. Probably lost about 8-9kg (close to 10%) in that time.
(b) I do it Mon & Thurs. Hardcore would be 4:3, fasting Mon-Wed-Fri. And ultra hardcore is alternate day, but that means fast days every weekend - no thanks.
(c) For men it's 600 cal on the fast day. Breakfast is toast + poached egg. Lunch is M&S grilled chicken or squid/prawns on 50g of rocket. Supper is poached fish, lots of steamed greens. Chilli sauce helps. Black coffee, peppermint tea and lots of water through the day. I almost never wake up ravenous on Tues/Fri.
(d) hardest thing is when something takes me out of my routine, so (eg) begin at a client on a fast day when the mayo sandwiches and kit kats are wheeled out relentlessly.
(e) exercising in the evening actually helps kill my appetite on a fast day. I found that pre-November when I was still running, and I found it again last Thursday, when the swim session was good as an evening meal.
(f) I'm doing it right now to reduce the amount of baggage I'm going to have to haul around in August. But I will very likely keep doing it afterwards for the foreseeable. As you know, it's a diet only in the sense of being a description of what you eat. The real benefits are long term against some best-avoided diseases, and the weight loss is a nice bonus on the way.

rubertoe

One other thing, what is you intake on the "normal days", the recomended ammount? approx 2500 cals?

greg66_tri_v2.0

rubertoe wrote:

One other thing, what is you intake on the "normal days", the recomended ammount? approx 2500 cals?

Normal intake. Just eat what you want. It's hard to make up a 4000 calorie deficit in 5 days.

Doing it underlined to me how much water I should have been, but had not been, drinking on a normal day.

il_principe

Sounds hellish, fair play for sticking with it.

Convinced that most people don't drink nearly enough water.

rjsterry

Il Principe wrote:

Sounds hellish, fair play for sticking with it.

Convinced that most people don't drink nearly enough water.

A chap in our office is doing the fasting thing - not helped by the chap who sits next to him trying to put on weight (mainly through inhaling doughnuts and flapjacks it seems).

The water thing has always struck me as slightly dubious, especially as it is pushed so hard by the bottled water industry.

Coriander

Il Principe wrote:

Sounds hellish, fair play for sticking with it.

Convinced that most people don't drink nearly enough water.

Actually, it's not nearly as hard as you'd think it would be. I had my first fasting day (500 calories as a woman) three weeks ago and was absolutely dreading it, but I was barely hungry at all - it's taught me very quickly that hunger (at an over-indulged first world level) is just a mind over matter issue. I've told myself I won't be eating much on the fast days and my mind seems to accept that and just not bother going into my usual 'I'm going to faint if I don't have food NOW' mode. And it's all much easier because you know you can eat whatever you like the next day.

But as someone who has always drunk between 3 and 4 litres of water a day, I can say with impunity (and an extra two stone of weight) that drinking lots of water does nothing to curb hunger or to help you lose weight/stay slim. It does, however, give you fab skin.

In the first two weeks of the 5:2 diet I lost 6lbs, but last week (when I was in bed with flu) I didn't lose any, so will be interested to see how this week goes.

As to the 'how much can you eat the rest of the week' question, that's an interesting one. My assumption is that on the normal eating days you must keep to your RDA (2000 calories for women), but everything I've read invariably says, 'you can eat WHATEVER you want' (my caps). I'm not sure how this could be possible, though. But what's strange is that for the first two weeks I did eat over my RDA each day and lost steadily. Last week, because I was ill and not socialising or up to cooking, I barely ate my RDA on the non fast days and didn't lose anything. Go figure, because I can't. A journalist friend of mine did some research into the diet back in the early autumn for which she spoke to a couple of scientists who were studying the diet and its effects and they reported that those who continued to diet in some way during the non fast days did not lose weight as successfully as those who didn't attempt to diet on the 5 normal days.

il_principe

Can't do any harm to get 1.5/2L of water down your neck a day though can it?

Coriander

Il Principe wrote:

Can't do any harm to get 1.5/2L of water down your neck a day though can it?

Grief, no, not at all. In fact, I just don't understand people like my boss whose liquid intake during the day is one cup of coffee at 11am and one cup of tea at 4pm. I was just making the point that I see all the time that drinking lots of water kills hunger pangs. Doesn't for me.

rjsterry

Il Principe wrote:

Can't do any harm to get 1.5/2L of water down your neck a day though can it?

No, but the figure of 3L a day was being thrown around for a while as being what you 'should' be doing. Pretty sure that mankind has spent 99% of his existence without a 1.5L bottle of mineral water on hand at all times. Much rather have a brew myself.

il_principe

rjsterry wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Can't do any harm to get 1.5/2L of water down your neck a day though can it?

No, but the figure of 3L a day was being thrown around for a while as being what you 'should' be doing. Pretty sure that mankind has spent 99% of his existence without a 1.5L bottle of mineral water on hand at all times. Much rather have a brew myself.

Mankind have prob spent 99% of time without adequate nutrition as well...

rjsterry

Il Principe wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Can't do any harm to get 1.5/2L of water down your neck a day though can it?

No, but the figure of 3L a day was being thrown around for a while as being what you 'should' be doing. Pretty sure that mankind has spent 99% of his existence without a 1.5L bottle of mineral water on hand at all times. Much rather have a brew myself.

Mankind have prob spent 99% of time without adequate nutrition as well...

I dunno, we seem to have done alright out of it: there's quite a lot of us around. I was watching a documentary about the Tank Regiment in North Africa, where they apparently managed on about 1L a day (in a tank in the North African desert :shock: ). Obviously you need to take on a certain amount of liquid by one means or another to prevent dehydration, but this doesn't have to come exclusively from a bottle of Highland Spring.

tetm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfPAjUvvnIc

il_principe

rjsterry wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Can't do any harm to get 1.5/2L of water down your neck a day though can it?

No, but the figure of 3L a day was being thrown around for a while as being what you 'should' be doing. Pretty sure that mankind has spent 99% of his existence without a 1.5L bottle of mineral water on hand at all times. Much rather have a brew myself.

Mankind have prob spent 99% of time without adequate nutrition as well...

I dunno, we seem to have done alright out of it: there's quite a lot of us around. I was watching a documentary about the Tank Regiment in North Africa, where they apparently managed on about 1L a day (in a tank in the North African desert :shock: ). Obviously you need to take on a certain amount of liquid by one means or another to prevent dehydration, but this doesn't have to come exclusively from a bottle of Highland Spring.

S'not the point I'm trying to make, but never mind.

rjsterry

Il Principe wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Can't do any harm to get 1.5/2L of water down your neck a day though can it?

No, but the figure of 3L a day was being thrown around for a while as being what you 'should' be doing. Pretty sure that mankind has spent 99% of his existence without a 1.5L bottle of mineral water on hand at all times. Much rather have a brew myself.

Mankind have prob spent 99% of time without adequate nutrition as well...

I dunno, we seem to have done alright out of it: there's quite a lot of us around. I was watching a documentary about the Tank Regiment in North Africa, where they apparently managed on about 1L a day (in a tank in the North African desert :shock: ). Obviously you need to take on a certain amount of liquid by one means or another to prevent dehydration, but this doesn't have to come exclusively from a bottle of Highland Spring.

S'not the point I'm trying to make, but never mind.

Sorry, guilty of going off at a bit of a tangent there. Just reading around the 5:2 diet, it seems that it 'works' by lowering your levels of IGF-1 (oddly enough, one of the drugs that Rasmussen has just admitted to using), which encourages stored fat to be metabolised, and also improves longevity.

Roastie

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

Many years ago I used to do triathlon. 13 years ago I did my last one - an Olympic distance, the longest I have done.

Then children came in the front door, spare time hurried out the back door, and priorities changed.

Until now. As of last night I am a paid up registered entrant for Ironman Canada 2013, which takes place on 25 August in Whistler, BC. I'm a triathlete once more. Unfortunately, there is a long road between here and the finish line.

There will be no more scalping. There will be no more SCR'ing. There will be only training. If you pass me, it will not be scalp. It will because I have just come off 100 * 100m free on the minute, or a week of centuries, or a tempo run to get by 1/2 marathon time down to the hour, or something equally implausible. Or. more likely, I'll be in a recovery week. Or even more likely, I'll be injured.

It is amazing the lengths some will go to in order to avoid the shame of a scalping.

ps. Good on ya!

itboffin

Yes yes all very good but what juice are you on?

rubertoe

itboffin wrote:

Yes yes all very good but what juice are you on?

Nothing today, its a fast day. :roll:

mrc1

Mixing a new calorie deficit diet together with a substantial training programme is certainly a challenge. I'd be interested to hear how you feel it affects your training and whether you feel you are getting adequate nutrition to fuel your body/enable it to recover from everything.

If you are able to stick with it long term and you feel it works for you then fair play (I suspect you have stronger will power than most), but my issue with this sort of diet is that 99% of people doing it will start it, inevitably lose some weight, then struggle to stick with it and eventually drop it then put the weight back on. Then they'll turn to the "only eat a grapefruit for breakfast" diet and so on and so forth.

The whole "on your normal days you can eat anything you want" message doesn't exactly help either as people don't make long terms changes or even address their underlying food habits as they continue to eat cr*p because the diet says it is alright...

Anyway rant over.

rjsterry

Indeed, Greg's calorie consumption must be going up considerably, compared with the odd weekend ride and a 6-7 mile commute. Mind you, there's always the temptation to use the extra riding as an excuse to trough some cake [looks at ceiling, whistling nonchalantly].

itboffin

mrc1 wrote:

(I suspect you have stronger will power than most)

You've not met G66 have you ...? :roll:

greg66_tri_v2.0

Update.

This is week 5. Weeks 1-3 ramped up volume, but not intensity, incrementally. Week 4 put the volumes back down. Weeks 5-7 ramp them up again, from a higher starting point that week 1. So, this week, I have an hour of stuff to do each morning before work (save for Monday, which is always a rest day, and Friday which is 1h 15m). And two swim sessions. And two weekend sessions...

Swimming is going well. Top tip for parents: make your kids go to swimming club until their early teens. The benefits they will have in later life cannot be underestimated.

I've never been so happy to have a turbo trainer as when looking out the window at snowflakes gently falling. Last weekend it was the Col du Telegraph and partway up the Galibier. Weekend before that it was a chunk of Ventoux. Yesterday was part of the IMC course via google earth. Brilliant.

Which just leaves the running. Or lack thereof. My follow up MRI revealed that in three months the stress reaction had healed about 25-30%. Vs a hoped-for top-end possible 50%. Now into that has to be factored (a) the xc ski machine I'm using irritates it slightly if I do long striding with a big kick back; (b) I have run a few times on it - round the block - to seem how it reacts. Ho hum. Anyway, for now, I'm sticking to the xc machine in place of running until mid to late April (which was, if I am honest, always my original plan).

By-products: generally I feel a lot better than usual and (oddly, IMO) feel as if I had been walking with a slouch, which I have cast off. I don't feel nearly as tired as I thought I would from getting up at least an hour early 4 days a week. I suppose it's still early days though.

This morning was the first day my legs have felt properly achy on the bike coming in. As I had a headwind, and it's supposed to be my complete rest day, and I'm on a 600 cal day, I was very happy to engage full pootle mode.

And I have rediscovered a trait that I had forgotten I had. I am a complete pool Nazi.

anton1r

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

...I am a complete pool Nazi.

+1

I think that comes from doing any sort of proper lane swimming, I used to swim in a club until my early teens and now I do some masters swimming. I really don't like doing public lane swimming now, everyone doing their own thing swimming at different paces and stopping whenever they like really throws me!

Good luck with the training and the race, I spent a winter in whistler, beautiful place!

rjsterry

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

Update.

This is week 5. Weeks 1-3 ramped up volume, but not intensity, incrementally. Week 4 put the volumes back down. Weeks 5-7 ramp them up again, from a higher starting point that week 1. So, this week, I have an hour of stuff to do each morning before work (save for Monday, which is always a rest day, and Friday which is 1h 15m). And two swim sessions. And two weekend sessions...

Swimming is going well. Top tip for parents: make your kids go to swimming club until their early teens. The benefits they will have in later life cannot be underestimated.

I've never been so happy to have a turbo trainer as when looking out the window at snowflakes gently falling. Last weekend it was the Col du Telegraph and partway up the Galibier. Weekend before that it was a chunk of Ventoux. Yesterday was part of the IMC course via google earth. Brilliant.

Which just leaves the running. Or lack thereof. My follow up MRI revealed that in three months the stress reaction had healed about 25-30%. Vs a hoped-for top-end possible 50%. Now into that has to be factored (a) the xc ski machine I'm using irritates it slightly if I do long striding with a big kick back; (b) I have run a few times on it - round the block - to seem how it reacts. Ho hum. Anyway, for now, I'm sticking to the xc machine in place of running until mid to late April (which was, if I am honest, always my original plan).

By-products: generally I feel a lot better than usual and (oddly, IMO) feel as if I had been walking with a slouch, which I have cast off. I don't feel nearly as tired as I thought I would from getting up at least an hour early 4 days a week. I suppose it's still early days though.

This morning was the first day my legs have felt properly achy on the bike coming in. As I had a headwind, and it's supposed to be my complete rest day, and I'm on a 600 cal day, I was very happy to engage full pootle mode.

And I have rediscovered a trait that I had forgotten I had. I am a complete pool Nazi.

Does your rage at the person doing backstroke in the breaststroke lane help keep the hunger pangs at bay? :P

I've just looked up what a 600 calorie day looks like - the only time I've managed on close to that little in one day was when I had norovirus.

ShandyH

Ah Greg, I've been meaning to catch up. Is the 600 calorie a day diet the reason for your pool rage? It would make me angry! That is not enough food. As for pool behaviour, I had a bloke doing backstroke today and he came straight into me going the wrong way in the lane. He got an earful after I got a hand in the face out of nowhere. He told me not to swear. I felt ashamed.

Sounds like your cycling is going a bit more full tilt than mine. I'm just doing 130 miles a week which involves the commute and a 50 miler at the weekend. Almost everything is zone 2 and/or inner chainring but I'm having the odd foray into zone 3 which, it's sad to say, is quite exciting. My swimming is okay but I've gone from four swims a week to two so I'm pretty sure I'm now slower than before. It's all drills as well. I'm also doing a couple of gym leg/core sessions and then three runs a week. I'm up to about 10.5 miles now for a normal weekend run so things are moving along but I'm getting a bit bored of base. The runs are all conversation pace too. But..... I've got through the injury phase which is a major result and am actually beginning to look forward to my runs which I haven't done since I was about 12.

I've gone down the coached route and asked the coach to up my running and cycling and he said "be assured the load will continue to build on all fronts" which sounded pretty ominous.

All ticking over but very untested. Nearly all my commutes are a case of not taking taking the bait. It's easier said than done!

itboffin

Swimming & running at your age tsk

greg66_tri_v2.0

So, updates.

First, the 600cal diet has had to stop. I just couldn't keep going on it. I'm now finding that I'm reinforcing all my worst snacking habits. Once I fall off this exercise regime, stand back, because I'm gonna blimp out big time.

Secondly, saw the consultant today after my latest MRI. Femoral neck is now all clear. I have the green light to start running again!

Errr, so. That's 17 weeks to prepare for a marathon. Starting with max 30 min runs separated by 48 hours min. Sounds OK. Doesn't it?

bigmat

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

So, updates.

First, the 600cal diet has had to stop. I just couldn't keep going on it. I'm now finding that I'm reinforcing all my worst snacking habits. Once I fall off this exercise regime, stand back, because I'm gonna blimp out big time.

Secondly, saw the consultant today after my latest MRI. Femoral neck is now all clear. I have the green light to start running again!

Errr, so. That's 17 weeks to prepare for a marathon. Starting with max 30 min runs separated by 48 hours min. Sounds OK. Doesn't it?

You'll fine if you don't get injured again. Don't rush the comeback!

rjsterry

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

So, updates.

First, the 600cal diet has had to stop.

<stares guiltily at 2/5ths empty bag of Belgian Chocolate Cookies @ 341calories each>

I still can't quite get my head around how you made it through the day without a) passing out b) being caught at the tea point spooning sugar into your mouth.