Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he doped

Coach H

If I can go off topic for a moment (lets face it plenty of others have), there is a big difference in 'hating' Dennis and not liking the points he is trying to make. For me reading the last few pages the distinction between the two is getting blurred.

I started this thread about a year ago and I think a few people need to have a bit of a read, including what is also linked.viewtopic.php?f=40002&t=12800477&hilit=dennis

No further comments please, just bear in mind forums on the internet are about discussions not people.

oneof1982

frenchfighter wrote:

"My name appears 480 times in the USADA report, Armstrong's only 200 times. They make me out to be wicked and diabolic, like the magical mixture of olive oil and testosterone to put under the tongue. Or suggesting that EPO disappears quicker when taken intravenously rather than injecting it under the skin," the Ferrari told Italy's Quotidiano newspaper. "Like Lance would say, it's all bullshit."

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... -case.html

Can you put a genie back in a bottle? Don't think Pat won't be trying.

Anonymous

Did he ever get those photos?
GOD DAMMIT THREADS LIKE THAT ARE USELESS WITHOUT PHOTOS

rdt

Turfle wrote:

Thankfully the likes of Valverde, Contador, and Indurain aren't the people we were looking to lead us into a cleaner cycling world anyway.

No. For that task, mercifully, we have the tower of leadership and bastion of integrity, who selflessly seeks only the best for cycling.

ddraver

Coach H wrote:

If I can go off topic for a moment (lets face it plenty of others have), there is a big difference in 'hating' Dennis and not liking the points he is trying to make. For me reading the last few pages the distinction between the two is getting blurred.

I started this thread about a year ago and I think a few people need to have a bit of a read, including what is also linked.viewtopic.php?f=40002&t=12800477&hilit=dennis

No further comments please, just bear in mind forums on the internet are about discussions not people.

I still agree with Iain...

Coach H

ddraver wrote:

Coach H wrote:

If I can go off topic for a moment (lets face it plenty of others have), there is a big difference in 'hating' Dennis and not liking the points he is trying to make. For me reading the last few pages the distinction between the two is getting blurred.

I started this thread about a year ago and I think a few people need to have a bit of a read, including what is also linked.viewtopic.php?f=40002&t=12800477&hilit=dennis

No further comments please, just bear in mind forums on the internet are about discussions not people.

I still agree with Iain...

You and Iain are right of course white91 could be his alternative log in. However please lets leave it at that (including me )

Anonymous

I certainly wouldn't say anything nasty about DennisN, but he does seem to think that we have all been duped and are now all let down now that he's been found guilty.

I didn't really know much about cycling and I admit a few years ago when his name came up in the paper, mum (DM reader) said 'he's never tested positive, they have no proof, leave him alone' and I just shrugged it off. Fair enough. I never exalted him and wore those band things cos they were cool (I was 17 at the time, oh the shame), and thought he had some some quite impressive things.

I did some research after getting into cycling and watching a few TdFs saw: yep, pretty clear in my mind he cheated, all evidence available points to him being a bad piece of work as well, but nonetheless a fairly phenomenal athlete, I hope he gets what he deserves (nothing more, nothing less).

Seems that everyone above holds the same view, except they knew (more or less) all along. No duping there, no 'oh we're so gutted our star has fallen from grace' chants. Just 'at least its now in the open so the masses know' and 'he's so narcissitic, I wonder what he's going to do now' which I suppose goes with Dennis's view that we do like to watch celebs lives. I don't think we 'wish' ill on people - I mean if he was a great athlete but I didn't like him personally I wouldn't wish for his fall from grace, but as he is a cheating lying scumbag, it seems fair that he has his fall from grace, and given his pretty intense personality, that will make for interesting viewing

Lichtblick

TheStone wrote:

I always thought Bertie and Lance hated each other.

Didn't Lance send the Astana cars off to the airport to pick-up his family so Bertie couldn't get to the TT start?

AFAIK, they do. And yes, Astana cars were deliberately taken away by LA and Bruyneel to try to bugger up Contador's Annecy TT start. He still won, thanks to his brother driving him there.

But what would anyone expect Contador to say? Come on, considering what happened to him (TdF victory annulled 2010).

nathancom

Coach H wrote:

If I can go off topic for a moment (lets face it plenty of others have), there is a big difference in 'hating' Dennis and not liking the points he is trying to make. For me reading the last few pages the distinction between the two is getting blurred.

I started this thread about a year ago and I think a few people need to have a bit of a read, including what is also linked.viewtopic.php?f=40002&t=12800477&hilit=dennis

No further comments please, just bear in mind forums on the internet are about discussions not people.

Sturm und Drang

Lichtblick

coriordan wrote:

I don't think we 'wish' ill on people - I mean if he was a great athlete but I didn't like him personally I wouldn't wish for his fall from grace, but as he is a cheating lying scumbag, it seems fair that he has his fall from grace, and given his pretty intense personality, that will make for interesting viewing

Can't disagree with that.

The phrase "those who live by the sword, die by the sword" springs to mind.

dennisn

afx237vi wrote:

dennisn wrote:

nathancom wrote:

Bog off Dennis, go and worship Lance somewhere else.

Once more time, again. I do this because I believe you are all a bunch of self righteous
morons or worse(actually worse). It's all OK for you to say whatever about whomever yet not OK for me to say the same about you. How does that work? You're all above being called fools. Don't like it, do you? I don't know many people who do. So you have a choice. Run to your mother and tell her that someone called you a name or knock off the name calling, etc. or get me banned. With the latter your wishes will come true. You'll all be sheep in this little hate group you've got going, never to be bothered by the big bad wolf again, and free to tell each other all about your cycling woes. Won't that be exciting?

A little rattled there, Dennis?

Ahhh, who doesn't get rattled at times? In any case I was once told that if you're not being criticised you're most likely not doing anything. Besides, and you can believe this or not, everyones thoughts of me are my savior. And that includes all of you.

Beatmaker

TheStone wrote:

I always thought Bertie and Lance hated each other.

Didn't Lance send the Astana cars off to the airport to pick-up his family so Bertie couldn't get to the TT start?

I wonder if he's panicking about becoming implicated. After all, he may still be dragged into this through Bruyneel and his arbitration. Maybe he's jjust trying to get some good PR in the eyes of Wonder Boy and the Hog.

Richmond Racer

Beatmaker wrote:

TheStone wrote:

I always thought Bertie and Lance hated each other.

Didn't Lance send the Astana cars off to the airport to pick-up his family so Bertie couldn't get to the TT start?

I wonder if he's panicking about becoming implicated. After all, he may still be dragged into this through Bruyneel and his arbitration. Maybe he's jjust trying to get some good PR in the eyes of Wonder Boy and the Hog.

I think all kinds of things could be going on in Bertie's mind right not, not least of which is the shocking (to him)realisation now that witness testimonies stand up as evidence just as much as a positive test....

blazing_saddles

Either:
a) Bertie, is still the serial doper and never came off the programme.
b) Bertie is running scared of all the skeletons he left in the Disco/Astana's closets.

I took his Vuelta performance on face value, without realising he was still two-faced.
Straight back into the naughty corner with his mate, Piti.

andrewjoseph

Richmond Racer wrote:

...

ok, here it is in awesome fulsomeness....the words of Contador:

http://www1.skysports.com/cycling/news/ ... me-respect
...

Seems to be preparing the way for when his lies are exposed, he will want respect at the end of it.

ddraver

^That's one of my readings of it, the alternative is that he's just an idiot.

He certainly has form for the latter so..?

andrewjoseph

I was surprised and disappointed he was allowed into the tour presentation.

andy_wrx

http://austinist.com/2012/10/18/lance_a ... mpster.php

andrewjoseph

Bertie on cycling news: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-says-there-is-no-new-proof-against-armstrong

"There isn’t a lot to change today,” he said. “We have the maximum of controls and we have to give our whereabouts at all times. The measures in place now are the maximum that you can have."

Doesn't want more scrutiny on him then.

mididoctors

got to give the yanks a bit of credit here...they took it on a cleared up there own 5h1t... so easy just to ignore it all especially given his heroic status.

I think his bullying and obnoxious nature may have been too much too ignore in the end.

Richmond Racer

andrewjoseph wrote:

Bertie on cycling news: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-says-there-is-no-new-proof-against-armstrong

"There isn’t a lot to change today,” he said. “We have the maximum of controls and we have to give our whereabouts at all times. The measures in place now are the maximum that you can have."

Doesn't want more scrutiny on him then.

And certainly none of this nasty business of witness statements counting as equal evidence. Got a feeling the world has certainly become a lot darker for Bertie...and a few others...

As for the maximum of controls, well, let's take a look at what Oscar Freire said in an interview a couple of days ago

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/freire- ... r-for-2013

'Asked if cycling’s damaged reputation had impacted on his decision, Freire said: “Everything is relative, even if, in recent years, although Spanish and winning races, they’ve left me in peace and I haven’t done as many controls.'


Doesnt quite add up, does it

Not insinuating anything about Freire. Just pulling up Bertie on his statement that 'we' have the maximum number of controls

bipedal

Richmond Racer wrote:

andrewjoseph wrote:

Bertie on cycling news: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-says-there-is-no-new-proof-against-armstrong

"There isn’t a lot to change today,” he said. “We have the maximum of controls and we have to give our whereabouts at all times. The measures in place now are the maximum that you can have."

Doesn't want more scrutiny on him then.

And certainly none of this nasty business of witness statements counting as equal evidence. Got a feeling the world has certainly become a lot darker for Bertie...and a few others...

As for the maximum of controls, well, let's take a look at what Oscar Freire said in an interview a couple of days ago

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/freire- ... r-for-2013

'Asked if cycling’s damaged reputation had impacted on his decision, Freire said: “Everything is relative, even if, in recent years, although Spanish and winning races, they’ve left me in peace and I haven’t done as many controls.'


Doesnt quite add up, does it

Not insinuating anything about Freire. Just pulling up Bertie on his statement that 'we' have the maximum number of controls

Contador's part of the problem, and as for the other Spanish riders comments it looks as though the omertà isn't going anywhere anytime soon

mfin

Contador is an easy one to suss, just remember he made up a fairy story about meat, and that blood doping was most likely but the evidence was blocked in the case and it wasn't investigated. Not to mention Puerto.

Job done.

Doper/Idiot Idiot/Doper

...but... on the main topic, it seems that lots of riders will comment in mixed ways, mixed motives, mixed intelligences, mixed amounts of 'well read' from 'naff all' to 'actually read the reports, and as someone who is/has been clean', and the reactions will never be consistent etc. BUT, what seems to be for sure here, is that any sports fan aware of the details of the case reading up on the UCI's comments and involvement find them questionable at the least and 'disgusting' and/or 'corrupt' at best.

Lance, we'll see... if he came clean, Id have a bit of respect back for him, if he doesn't (I know the arguments for and against) then he can have what's coming to him in lawsuits etc. But Lance isn't the important thing to me at the moment...

To me, I hope the UCI gets hammered and caught out. They are showing no respect to USADA who adhere to the WADA practices. The UCI choose to in fact undermine USADA's authority and integrity, which is rich coming from them.

They were spineless in their Press Conference, its no wonder McQuaid made the comments undermining USADA afterwards and not before, as if he did, he would have serious questions being asked.

Also, what naffed me off, is he was quick to say Ashenden should be working with them developing tests, so he obviously believes in Ashenden's abilities to assess doping, BUT, when it comes to the very case he's talking about, he doesn't seem to pay Ashenden's professional diagnosis any respect at all. Its one or the other Pat.

Then Pat calls WADA to get stuck in, well I agree, but let's hope WADA get stuck into the sodding UCI and not USADA on the back of the stupid misconceptions of Pat's and the UCI's that USADA are some amateur outfit who don't do things properly.

ocdupalais

Does anyone with a legal background - or a detailed knowledge of the Puerto case - know of any reason why many Spanish cyclists are the only people right now (other than Ferrari) who are still showing support for Armstrong and seeming to condemn the process that has indicted him?

Or can it be explained away as simply a "cultural difference"?

Richmond Racer

WADA have made their position very clear re

1) the validity of the USADA investigation etc - its valid, they support it

2) UCI - shut up and put up. oh and start getting their house in order

They aint about to appeal

mfin

Richmond Racer wrote:

WADA have made their position very clear re

1) the validity of the USADA investigation etc - its valid, they support it

2) UCI - shut up and put up. oh and start getting their house in order

They aint about to appeal

Have WADA restated this since McQuaid's post press conf comments, as in directly addressing these things he's said??

(I know they did weeks before)

Richmond Racer

mfin wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

WADA have made their position very clear re

1) the validity of the USADA investigation etc - its valid, they support it

2) UCI - shut up and put up. oh and start getting their house in order

They aint about to appeal

Have WADA restated this since McQuaid's post press conf comments, as in directly addressing these things he's said??

(I know they did weeks before)

John Fahey's comments after the UCI presser
http://espn.go.com/olympics/cycling/sto ... inkers-off

I think we can safely conclude WADA's not appealing...

Richmond Racer

Of course! another reason why Bertie's not best pleased....his long time coach, Pepi Marti... :twisted:

mfin

Richmond Racer wrote:

mfin wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

WADA have made their position very clear re

1) the validity of the USADA investigation etc - its valid, they support it

2) UCI - shut up and put up. oh and start getting their house in order

They aint about to appeal

Have WADA restated this since McQuaid's post press conf comments, as in directly addressing these things he's said??

(I know they did weeks before)

John Fahey's comments after the UCI presser
http://espn.go.com/olympics/cycling/sto ... inkers-off

I think we can safely conclude WADA's not appealing...

I agree with the not appealing, but is there a statement from WADA directly addressing McQuaid's/UCI's post conference statements?? ...where they undermined USADA. (as against WADA saying stuff reacting to the case in general or the UCIs decision to uphold or to the press conf itself)

Richmond Racer

sorry, mfin, non comprende?

EDIT

oh, you mean re SOL...no, havent seen anything. I assume that WADA's attitude is just, puh..