Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he doped

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Comments

  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    Turfle wrote:
    Rogers, Possoni, Barry - all came from HTC. Surely questions need to be asked of Cav, Eisel, Sivtsov, Wiggins, Pate, Lofkvist, Boasson Hagen.

    Danny Pate is one cyclist I'd genuinely be shocked if he turned out to be a doper. A good guy with the right attitude. Lofkvist, EBH and even Cav would surprise me.

    Rogers, Possoni and Barry are all Ferrari's creatures. Barry especially comes out badly from all the witness affidavits. He comes across an active encourager as well as participant of doping. Plus the guy that would stash the gear as he was less likely to be searched.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • Turfle
    Turfle Posts: 3,762
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Turfle wrote:
    Rogers, Possoni, Barry - all came from HTC. Surely questions need to be asked of Cav, Eisel, Sivtsov, Wiggins, Pate, Lofkvist, Boasson Hagen.


    Shall we just fire the entire peloton? Maybe come back in 20 years time?

    Drastic, but I can see it working.
    Timoid. wrote:
    Turfle wrote:
    Rogers, Possoni, Barry - all came from HTC. Surely questions need to be asked of Cav, Eisel, Sivtsov, Wiggins, Pate, Lofkvist, Boasson Hagen.

    Danny Pate is one cyclist I'd genuinely be shocked if he turned out to be a doper. A good guy with the right attitude. Lofkvist, EBH and even Cav would surprise me.

    Rogers, Possoni and Barry are all Ferrari's creatures. Barry especially comes out badly from all the witness affidavits. He comes across an active encourager as well as participant of doping. Plus the guy that would stash the gear as he was less likely to be searched.

    I agree. I was just trying to get into the spirit of wildly connecting dots.

    Lofkvist has had a very odd career though. His TT results dramatically fell off a cliff. There could of course be many reasons why.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    Turfle wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Turfle wrote:
    Rogers, Possoni, Barry - all came from HTC. Surely questions need to be asked of Cav, Eisel, Sivtsov, Wiggins, Pate, Lofkvist, Boasson Hagen.


    Shall we just fire the entire peloton? Maybe come back in 20 years time?

    Drastic, but I can see it working.

    Unfortunately I can't. You could stop pro cycling altogether for a generation and when it started back up someone would cheat to get an advantage and then someone else would cheat to remain competitive and it would snowball back to previous levels. The best I fear we can ever hope for is that the testing keeps well enough in touch that at least cheating never quite gets back to the ridiculous levels we now know it reached in the 90s and early part of the 00s.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Pross wrote:
    Turfle wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Turfle wrote:
    Rogers, Possoni, Barry - all came from HTC. Surely questions need to be asked of Cav, Eisel, Sivtsov, Wiggins, Pate, Lofkvist, Boasson Hagen.


    Shall we just fire the entire peloton? Maybe come back in 20 years time?

    Drastic, but I can see it working.

    Unfortunately I can't. You could stop pro cycling altogether for a generation and when it started back up someone would cheat to get an advantage and then someone else would cheat to remain competitive and it would snowball back to previous levels. The best I fear we can ever hope for is that the testing keeps well enough in touch that at least cheating never quite gets back to the ridiculous levels we now know it reached in the 90s and early part of the 00s.


    I was joking. I would never seriously suggest such a dumb idea.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Turfle wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Turfle wrote:
    Rogers, Possoni, Barry - all came from HTC. Surely questions need to be asked of Cav, Eisel, Sivtsov, Wiggins, Pate, Lofkvist, Boasson Hagen.


    Shall we just fire the entire peloton? Maybe come back in 20 years time?

    Drastic, but I can see it working.

    Unfortunately I can't. You could stop pro cycling altogether for a generation and when it started back up someone would cheat to get an advantage and then someone else would cheat to remain competitive and it would snowball back to previous levels. The best I fear we can ever hope for is that the testing keeps well enough in touch that at least cheating never quite gets back to the ridiculous levels we now know it reached in the 90s and early part of the 00s.


    I was joking. I would never seriously suggest such a dumb idea.

    I'd worked that out but just wanted to make the point that even something that drastic would be unlikely to work.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Timoid. wrote:
    Turfle wrote:
    Rogers, Possoni, Barry - all came from HTC. Surely questions need to be asked of Cav, Eisel, Sivtsov, Wiggins, Pate, Lofkvist, Boasson Hagen.

    Danny Pate is one cyclist I'd genuinely be shocked if he turned out to be a doper. A good guy with the right attitude. Lofkvist, EBH and even Cav would surprise me.

    Rogers, Possoni and Barry are all Ferrari's creatures. Barry especially comes out badly from all the witness affidavits. He comes across an active encourager as well as participant of doping. Plus the guy that would stash the gear as he was less likely to be searched.

    Barry swore his affadavit under oath that he stopped in 06. I think that having come forward - remember he's only just come forward. one of the additional riders to step forward with testimonies - personally I feel comfortable in the belief that he did not perjure himself.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    coriordan wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    Still, you should support your children in their dreams, All you can do is teach them right from wrong and HOPE they make good decisions in life. I don't think that there is anything inherently wrong with pro cycling. It's simply bike racing on a very high level.
    It's not bad in and of itself but PEOPLE in it can run the gamut of everything from very bad to very good. Nothing wrong with dreaming of a pro cycling career. It's a good sport, always has been.

    DENNISN IN FORUM POST WHICH ACTUALLY MAKES COHERENT SENSE SHOCKER

    I only mentioned it because it seemed to me that many people were blaming "Pro Cycling" for creating this mess instead of people creating this mess for the sport of pro cycling. All bike racing is is trying to ride faster than the other guys. Nothing more or less. You really can't say that the oil companies are crooks but you might find that some of the people in them are. Give cycling a break, it didn't do anything. Right or wrong.
  • Turfle
    Turfle Posts: 3,762
    Pross wrote:
    Turfle wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Turfle wrote:
    Rogers, Possoni, Barry - all came from HTC. Surely questions need to be asked of Cav, Eisel, Sivtsov, Wiggins, Pate, Lofkvist, Boasson Hagen.


    Shall we just fire the entire peloton? Maybe come back in 20 years time?

    Drastic, but I can see it working.

    Unfortunately I can't. You could stop pro cycling altogether for a generation and when it started back up someone would cheat to get an advantage and then someone else would cheat to remain competitive and it would snowball back to previous levels. The best I fear we can ever hope for is that the testing keeps well enough in touch that at least cheating never quite gets back to the ridiculous levels we now know it reached in the 90s and early part of the 00s.

    It would work for a while though, say 20 years.

    You are of course right, people will always look for an edge, and that will always lead to nefariousnessnes. It's tough to see any future beyond catching cheats, punishing them, and hopefully making the risk of being caught so high + the rewards of doping so low, that it becomes a more unattractive proposition.

    Expecting a 100% clean sport is beyond wishful thinking.
  • oneof1982
    oneof1982 Posts: 703
    Micael Barry concerns me. In his own words from page 4 of his affidavit:

    “Over the three and a half years I rode for Saturn, I can only recall being offered a prohibited substance on one occasion. It occurred in 1999 Tour of Langkwani. I placed well at the time and the team director, (redacted), offered me some Synacthen because I was doing well in the race. I was not familiar with Synacthen so I asked (redacted) questions about the product before he injected me. I felt pressured by (redacted) to take the product in order to improve my chances of winning the race. I had told (redacted) at the start of the season that I was not interested in doping but he offered me the Synacthen anyway, and I accepted.”

    i.e. he took PED's long before he joined USPS and at the first time of asking. Contrast this with his statement released to the press:

    ".....encouraged by the team, pressured to perform and pushed to my physical limits I crossed a line"
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,553
    oneof1982 wrote:
    Micael Barry concerns me. In his own words from page 4 of his affidavit:

    “Over the three and a half years I rode for Saturn, I can only recall being offered a prohibited substance on one occasion. It occurred in 1999 Tour of Langkwani. I placed well at the time and the team director, (redacted), offered me some Synacthen because I was doing well in the race. I was not familiar with Synacthen so I asked (redacted) questions about the product before he injected me. I felt pressured by (redacted) to take the product in order to improve my chances of winning the race. I had told (redacted) at the start of the season that I was not interested in doping but he offered me the Synacthen anyway, and I accepted.”

    i.e. he took PED's long before he joined USPS and at the first time of asking. Contrast this with his statement released to the press:

    ".....encouraged by the team, pressured to perform and pushed to my physical limits I crossed a line"

    Wasn't Rene Wenzel directing the Saturn team then? The same man who was done for doping junior riders when he was coaching the US Junior team.

    Some people need to be removed from the sport permanently.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    andyp wrote:
    oneof1982 wrote:
    Micael Barry concerns me. In his own words from page 4 of his affidavit:

    “Over the three and a half years I rode for Saturn, I can only recall being offered a prohibited substance on one occasion. It occurred in 1999 Tour of Langkwani. I placed well at the time and the team director, (redacted), offered me some Synacthen because I was doing well in the race. I was not familiar with Synacthen so I asked (redacted) questions about the product before he injected me. I felt pressured by (redacted) to take the product in order to improve my chances of winning the race. I had told (redacted) at the start of the season that I was not interested in doping but he offered me the Synacthen anyway, and I accepted.”

    i.e. he took PED's long before he joined USPS and at the first time of asking. Contrast this with his statement released to the press:

    ".....encouraged by the team, pressured to perform and pushed to my physical limits I crossed a line"

    Wasn't Rene Wenzel directing the Saturn team then? The same man who was done for doping junior riders when he was coaching the US Junior team.

    Some people need to be removed from the sport permanently.

    I don't buy the idea that it's the sports fault or the coaches fault or the doctors fault. Even if you're a junior racer of high caliber you have been around long enough to know the rules and right from wrong. This making out racers, no matter the age, to be
    unable and too naive to make these decisions is BS.
    If my boss tells me that in order to keep my job and advance I need to go down to the corner and rob the convenience store then I, ME, MYSELF have something to decide.
  • Tom BB
    Tom BB Posts: 1,001
    How old are the juniors in the US? In this country, they'd be 17-18, so very easily led and you can't really say that they've been around long enough to know better at that age imo
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Anyone catching a Sky Sports interview with Cav right now?

    He's steaming, by all acounts
  • Turfle
    Turfle Posts: 3,762
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Anyone catching a Sky Sports interview with Cav right now?

    He's steaming, by all acounts

    Didn't see it. What did he have to say?
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Turfle wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Anyone catching a Sky Sports interview with Cav right now?

    He's steaming, by all acounts

    Didn't see it. What did he have to say?


    Dont know, didnt catch it. Will post a link when its available on the Sky site

    In the meantime....Nico Roche aint pulling any punches
    http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-s ... 57272.html
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Turfle wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Anyone catching a Sky Sports interview with Cav right now?

    He's steaming, by all acounts

    Didn't see it. What did he have to say?


    Dont know, didnt catch it. Will post a link when its available on the Sky site

    In the meantime....Nico Roche aint pulling any punches
    http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-s ... 57272.html

    Steaming like he's had a few?
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Turfle wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Anyone catching a Sky Sports interview with Cav right now?

    He's steaming, by all acounts

    Didn't see it. What did he have to say?


    Dont know, didnt catch it. Will post a link when its available on the Sky site

    In the meantime....Nico Roche aint pulling any punches
    http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-s ... 57272.html

    Steaming like he's had a few?


    No, steaming angry. At least, thats what I heard
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Richmond Racer wrote:

    No, steaming angry. At least, thats what I heard

    And that's different to usual how? :P
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    "DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CYCLING - DON'T ASK STUPID QUESTIONS'
  • nathancom
    nathancom Posts: 1,567
    Is this the real Vino twitter account?

    https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexandreVino
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Account suspended already. What did it say?
  • nathancom
    nathancom Posts: 1,567
    This was one of them:

    @lancearmstrong it's the kids I feel sorry for... What kind of example is your cheating, lying, and dishonesty? #sadbirthday4luke

    Lots of baiting of LA and JB for the last 2 or 3 months. Seemed genuine.
  • meagain
    meagain Posts: 2,331
    Don't you just love the UCI who stated ... they "will examine all information received in order to consider issues of appeal and recognition, jurisdiction and statute of limitation."

    As in "we'll appeal as we don't recognise your jurisdiction and besides it was another country and a long time ago". Could play the full scale Shylock gambit if only all the "accused" were dead!
    d.j.
    "Cancel my subscription to the resurrection."
  • meagain
    meagain Posts: 2,331
    Timoid. wrote:
    meagain wrote:
    As for
    "As someone (and I may be doing you a disservice here) who has never been anywhere near the level of a pro sports star and has no idea of the singlemindedness and dedication that involves you have absolutely no idea what it would be like to be faced with the thought of giving up your dreams.

    User avatar
    Timoid."

    Pro sports is only one of many professions where one has to decide whether to sacrifice ones dreams or ones moral beliefs and principles. Pro cyclists may not in general be overly endowed with intelligence but I'm sure they understood the choice before them - cheat and succeed or ...not. Some give up their dreams, many just "compromise" enough to feed their kids. it's called life.

    What other professions? And don't say banking. The majority of bankers are decent honest people.

    OK I won't say bankers (though I would strongly disagree with your assertion). How about Civil Servants?
    d.j.
    "Cancel my subscription to the resurrection."
  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    meagain wrote:
    OK I won't say bankers (though I would strongly disagree with your assertion). How about Civil Servants?

    ...... awaits the arrival of Rich
  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    In the meantime....Nico Roche aint pulling any punches
    http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-s ... 57272.html

    Mmmmm, that could make for some interesting chats over dinner with daddy.....
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,438
    Can't get my head round the Garmin/Vaughters connections.

    3 riders + Vaughters knew (in detail) what had gone on at US Postal and said nothing, even during the comeback years.

    Not even when Wiggins was being beaten into 4th by Armstrong

    Nico Roche wrote:
    If you look at all the riders recently who have been caught and admitted doping, some people are saying it's great that these riders are helping the sport. But saying, 'I'm sorry, I was doping from this year to that year but I'm not going to do it again and I'm cleaner than clean... I'm helping anti-doping because I talk to kids about it,' or whatever, that's a load of bull. That's not helping anti-doping.

    Helping anti-doping is saying. 'Okay I doped. I got it from this doctor. These are the riders that I met in the waiting room. This is how it's done. These are the new products that are in the peloton that are not yet detectable. These are the products that we use to mask the ones that are detectable. This product does this, this product does that. This is how we beat the test.' That's helping anti-doping.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    So basically Nico is saying all the people who confessed recently are helping anti-doping?
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Tom BB wrote:
    How old are the juniors in the US? In this country, they'd be 17-18, so very easily led and you can't really say that they've been around long enough to know better at that age imo

    Ya, 16, 17. In any case I say they HAVE been around long enough to know better. For years cycling has been clouded with cheating and unless these kids have been born and raised in a cave they know right from wrong. I recall someone saying, a few years back, that one of todays 10 or 12 year olds knows more about volcanoes than the whole world did 100 years ago. They all know that drugs, drinking, etc. are not tolerated at their age and very often aren't well tolerated when they become "legal age", so to speak. Can they be "led very easily"? Sure, but they still know the difference. I would EXPECT my children to know the rules and HOPE they would obey them. But they do KNOW them.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Incredible quote from Nico
    Helping anti-doping is saying. 'Okay I doped. I got it from this doctor. These are the riders that I met in the waiting room. This is how it's done. These are the new products that are in the peloton that are not yet detectable. These are the products that we use to mask the ones that are detectable. This product does this, this product does that. This is how we beat the test.' That's helping anti-doping.

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