The official TrainerRoad thread

fearby

Ok so looks like I won't be able to change the way the Neo records a session.

Is there a way of editing the trainerroad file to remove distance and speed data so when it goes to Strava it is at least a representation of what I did?

May be getting a little obsessed with this!

dinyull

Faaark me.

Been off TR for 12 months because of daily commuting. 1st session back last night and blew up big time during FTP test chasing my old FTP.

Looks like I'm down approx 20%. Fitness is good at the minute, so putting most of those losses down to not using a fan anymore.

Re-test tonight.

Jeri534

Hello all new user here. I just finished my first sweet spot low volume plan and retested today and blew up after my first interval. I just couldn't put out enough power anymore. The sweet spot plan was tough but I made it through considering I work and go to school fill time. I tested pretty much the same ftp today on my one interval although I felt like Ive made some good progress in my strength over the plan. I looked through the data betwee my two ftp test and saw my HR during intervals were 20-30bpm higher than my previous test during the same intervals! Is this a lack of recovery? Or am I getting burned out ?

First test



Second

bobmcstuff

Your power looks very variable for an FTP test, you want to keep it really steady and even. That initial peak and then the peak halfway through will bring your HR up.

That bit in the second test where it looks like you went over 300 watts for a couple of minutes will have done for you.

Re HR it could be any number of things, how much training had you done on the run into the test? Ideally you want to be doing the test after a few easier rides, or certainly you don't want to be doing very hard rides the day or two before. Otherwise stress, temperature, tiredness etc can all have an impact.

Jeri534

Those are just power spikes as my power meter is my crank arm, they didnt last more than 3 seconds. But even the lower power intervals my HR was 30+ difference from my first test. I had power spikes on my first test and I got through the test just fine


I havent done any intensive workouts since last week and took the past day or two off, but still feeling fatigued from the training block in general. I think Im gonna take it eas for the next week or two as I have a century this weekend and retest when Im feeling more fresh

dinyull

Jeri534 wrote:

Those are just power spikes as my power meter is my crank arm, they didnt last more than 3 seconds. But even the lower power intervals my HR was 30+ difference from my first test. I had power spikes on my first test and I got through the test just fine


I havent done any intensive workouts since last week and took the past day or two off, but still feeling fatigued from the training block in general. I think Im gonna take it eas for the next week or two as I have a century this weekend and retest when Im feeling more fresh

What Bob said.

Have a look at other people's test's and see how smooth their power lines are.... Generally you should be aiming to be within a few watts of target power, and no more/less than 10-15 watts difference.

https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rid ... e-ftp-test

daniel_b

Indeed, that is spiketastic, not sure what is going on there - need to apply some smoothing, or average power for 3 seconds perhaps?

https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/6085527-8-minute-ftp-test

bobmcstuff

Quick shout out to TrainerRoad customer service who were quick to assure me I wasn't about to lose my FTP test when the desktop app crashed as I was completing the workout

There's a live chat function on the web page and "Jake Y" was very helpful.

Also I set a new PB of 263 watts. Very happy as I'm coming off a cold (pretty minor one fortunately!)

daniel_b

bobmcstuff wrote:

Quick shout out to TrainerRoad customer service who were quick to assure me I wasn't about to lose my FTP test when the desktop app crashed as I was completing the workout

There's a live chat function on the web page and "Jake Y" was very helpful.

Also I set a new PB of 263 watts. Very happy as I'm coming off a cold (pretty minor one fortunately!)

I've had very good interactions with them over e-mail, didn't realise they had a live chat.

I lost internet connection once, and although the app knew I had completed a workout, the web interface did not - I didn;t realise at the time, but on the app if you click on the 3 dots there is a 'Resync ride' option, which would likely have sorted it.

They have also helped me out many times with issues with sensors etc, which isn't even really their problem, but they are very helpful I do agree.

And fantastic reult on your FTP mate, I'm currently at 229, and aspiring to those sorts of levels at around Christmas time or the spring

bobmcstuff

Daniel B wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

Quick shout out to TrainerRoad customer service who were quick to assure me I wasn't about to lose my FTP test when the desktop app crashed as I was completing the workout

There's a live chat function on the web page and "Jake Y" was very helpful.

Also I set a new PB of 263 watts. Very happy as I'm coming off a cold (pretty minor one fortunately!)

I've had very good interactions with them over e-mail, didn't realise they had a live chat.

I lost internet connection once, and although the app knew I had completed a workout, the web interface did not - I didn;t realise at the time, but on the app if you click on the 3 dots there is a 'Resync ride' option, which would likely have sorted it.

They have also helped me out many times with issues with sensors etc, which isn't even really their problem, but they are very helpful I do agree.

And fantastic reult on your FTP mate, I'm currently at 229, and aspiring to those sorts of levels at around Christmas time or the spring

Thanks

228 was my first test back in October last year, so very similar.

I just need to drop a few more kilos... Currently 3.5 w/kg, I reckon a bit more improvement and a few kilos off the belly I could do 4 w/kg.

Interestingly, a 17 watt power improvement (to get to my nominal 280w aspiration) is equal to me losing another 4.7kg (taking me to 70kg which is my benchmark), which makes the power improvements seem a lot more attractive since I feel like I have some improvement to come but losing nearly 5kg is a nuisance!

dinyull

Daniel B wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

Quick shout out to TrainerRoad customer service who were quick to assure me I wasn't about to lose my FTP test when the desktop app crashed as I was completing the workout

There's a live chat function on the web page and "Jake Y" was very helpful.

Also I set a new PB of 263 watts. Very happy as I'm coming off a cold (pretty minor one fortunately!)

I lost internet connection once, and although the app knew I had completed a workout, the web interface did not - I didn;t realise at the time, but on the app if you click on the 3 dots there is a 'Resync ride' option, which would likely have sorted it.

Cheers, that answers a question I was yet to ask. No internet connection in the garage, once I've finished a ride I connect to the wi-fi in the house but sometimes the rides don't like to upload...will have a look at this.

bobmcstuff

Sustained power build... Just into the second half and with the new FTP it's an absolute killer! No idea what the neighbours must think is going on!

dinyull

Yeah. I remember thinking the increased effort in base phase was tough, but the 2nd half of the build phase is an absolute killer.

daniel_b

bobmcstuff wrote:

Sustained power build... Just into the second half and with the new FTP it's an absolute killer! No idea what the neighbours must think is going on!

Not had the pleasure of that one yet - I did the general build which I found tough, that much is true, but managable - that yielded me a pretty hefty 15% gain over those 8 weeks alone.

I am now struggling through the rolling road speciality course, and suspect I have not progressed at all, still over 4 weeks to go though.

Caused by 3 weeks away, and then a cold when I came back, so circa 4.5 weeks off the bike :-(

After that, I have a hill climb event, and then I plan to go back to 12 weeks of Base, and then onto sustained power build at the start of 2018.

daniel_b

Here' s a question for you TR lot.

I'm a confirmed Trainerroad addict - my current 8 week plan would have taken me up to 1 week shy of a hill climb event, so I am simply repeating last weeks efforts this week - still high effort, and will then continue as planned, so the taper and reduction in effort should them tie in with the actual event, and hopefully I will be in the best shape possible.

After the event I need to carry out an FTP (As I plan to go back to sweet spot base for 12 weeks - is that a good plan?) - how long do you reckon I wait to let my legs recover - 3-4 days ok, perhaps with a couple of light spin sessions in between?
Event is on a Sunday, thinking maybe a light spin Monday afternoon and Wednesday morning, and then hit the FTP test early doors on Friday before work - or leave it until Saturday?

bobmcstuff

I posted in your other thread as well

I think you'll be fine to test. If you're using fitness and freshness chart on Strava and you want to get technical about it (I'm guessing you do ) then you're likely to get the best test result when the form value is slightly negative to slightly positive (i.e., single digits - although it depends on the person).

Which plan are you currently on out of interest?

Going back and doing base/build/specialty again is a good idea and is what TR recommend (e.g., on their podcast). I intend to do something similar, although I'll probably have a couple of easy weeks at the start of October before going back onto it.

Nick Kanwetz

Daniel B wrote:

Here' s a question for you TR lot.

I'm a confirmed Trainerroad addict - my current 8 week plan would have taken me up to 1 week shy of a hill climb event, so I am simply repeating last weeks efforts this week - still high effort, and will then continue as planned, so the taper and reduction in effort should them tie in with the actual event, and hopefully I will be in the best shape possible.

After the event I need to carry out an FTP (As I plan to go back to sweet spot base for 12 weeks - is that a good plan?) - how long do you reckon I wait to let my legs recover - 3-4 days ok, perhaps with a couple of light spin sessions in between?
Event is on a Sunday, thinking maybe a light spin Monday afternoon and Wednesday morning, and then hit the FTP test early doors on Friday before work - or leave it until Saturday?

Howdy!

Stoked to hear you're going bananas on TrainerRoad — we are sure glad to have addicts like you on board. Might need to create a TrainerRoad Anonymous so we can all discuss our conditions! Haha

And good strategy on adjusting the plan to fit your event schedule!

Jumping back into Sweet Spot Base is a great idea, too. If you are going to be targeting another race in the season, you could choose to jump right into a Build phase as well. But there's nothing wrong with diving into SSB. We just suggest the "re-build" route for athletes targeting more races within the season. Keep in mind, we do always recommend taking 1-3 weeks to give yourself a little break from the high-intensity stuff. This varies from rider-to-rider.

As for the FTP test, a few days of rest (1-3) should do the trick. You can play it by year and extend that a couple days if you're still carrying around some residual fatigue, too. Shooting for the Friday plan sounds like a good course of action though.

Loop us in after your event! Have an awesome race!

Get Faster with TrainerRoad

daniel_b

bobmcstuff wrote:

I posted in your other thread as well

I think you'll be fine to test. If you're using fitness and freshness chart on Strava and you want to get technical about it (I'm guessing you do ) then you're likely to get the best test result when the form value is slightly negative to slightly positive (i.e., single digits - although it depends on the person).

Which plan are you currently on out of interest?

Going back and doing base/build/specialty again is a good idea and is what TR recommend (e.g., on their podcast). I intend to do something similar, although I'll probably have a couple of easy weeks at the start of October before going back onto it.

You did indeed! It's the climbing road race plan.

Not familiar with the F&F chart - is that with Strava premium I am going to guess?

I quite like the idea of a couple of easy weeks, before hitting it, but then equally part of me wants to finish the sweet spot base before Christmas!
Maybe I just aim for the end of the year instead.

@Nick - thanks for your reply :-)

I think a TA organisation could have a lot of members!

There won't be any more events until the spring, so was planning to basically go back through the cycle of base\build, which should take me to the end of March, or thereabouts.
Not sure then whether to go for another speciality course, or simply go for a different build, or repeat the just completed build course - presumably that will result in bigger gains than moving onto speciality?
My target for the spring into summer is some local TTs.

When you say a break - I assume that you still mean for people to still cycle, just less intense efforts, and nothing too structured?

Thanks

Nick Kanwetz

Daniel B wrote:

@Nick - thanks for your reply :-)

I think a TA organisation could have a lot of members!

There won't be any more events until the spring, so was planning to basically go back through the cycle of base\build, which should take me to the end of March, or thereabouts.
Not sure then whether to go for another speciality course, or simply go for a different build, or repeat the just completed build course - presumably that will result in bigger gains than moving onto speciality?
My target for the spring into summer is some local TTs.

When you say a break - I assume that you still mean for people to still cycle, just less intense efforts, and nothing too structured?

Thanks

Hehe, we might have to get TA started here soon.

Oh cool, that should be a great approach then. When March rolls around (or whenever the timing is right to target the local TTs), jumping into the 40k TT plan would likely be your best approach. While you may see bigger FTP gains by sticking to another Build plan, you'd be better off refining your abilities to be uber specific to racing time trials. The workouts we schedule in this plan include practice TTs to help you familiarize yourself with your power capabilities in your time trial position, among other targeted, specific workouts particular to the power required in time trialling.

That's correct on the question about a break—just leave things unstructured. But you can totally stay off the bike as well, choice is yours.

Nick

Get Faster with TrainerRoad

bobmcstuff

Nick, a 40k TT is a fair bit longer than a British 10 (which I assume is what Daniel B wants to do, club 10 mile TTs), is the 40k TT plan still the most appropriate?

And I presume you would recommend steady power build for the build cycle - I have just completed this (in combination with outside rides) as prep for a hill climb which is happening in a couple of weeks, since it should be an ~18 minute effort. I found it really hard, I find the long steady intervals really tough on the turbo. I think it's mostly psychological as I can handle e.g., over unders at the same or even higher IFs, but one of them was 3x 18 minutes at 97-99% FTP and it was really miserable.

I've also found that while my FTP is well up and my endurance seems great, I'm struggling with the top end stuff and the short sharp climbs. I think overall I preferred how I felt after General Build even though my FTP was similar or marginally lower.

Nick Kanwetz

bobmcstuff wrote:

Nick, a 40k TT is a fair bit longer than a British 10 (which I assume is what Daniel B wants to do, club 10 mile TTs), is the 40k TT plan still the most appropriate?

And I presume you would recommend steady power build for the build cycle - I have just completed this (in combination with outside rides) as prep for a hill climb which is happening in a couple of weeks, since it should be an ~18 minute effort. I found it really hard, I find the long steady intervals really tough on the turbo. I think it's mostly psychological as I can handle e.g., over unders at the same or even higher IFs, but one of them was 3x 18 minutes at 97-99% FTP and it was really miserable.

I've also found that while my FTP is well up and my endurance seems great, I'm struggling with the top end stuff and the short sharp climbs. I think overall I preferred how I felt after General Build even though my FTP was similar or marginally lower.

In terms of building your ability to sustain the highest percentage of your FTP for as long as possible, the 40k TT plan will still be the best fit here.

And yep, Sustained Power Build would be our recommendation running into that too. I really hear you on those threshold efforts ... they absolutely wreck me. I do think there is a very large psychological component to it as well, sometimes it can just be flat-out intimidating to know you're riding at that intensity knowing in the back of your mind they are supposed to be hard ...

To your note about the differences you're noticing in capabilities attributed to which Build plan you chose, use this feedback to inform how you'd like to structure your Build phase training moving forward. Sounds like you have built your abilities in sustained efforts at high %s of FTP through your work in the Sustained Power Build plan, and it sounds like you're missing out on some of the punch you noticed as a result of the General Build plan. Perhaps you'd be best off taking some of those anaerobic, sprint efforts included in the Gen Build, and use them to swap out with some of the over-unders or sweet spot stuff. I'd say this would be a good approach to try and get the best of both worlds.

Nick

Get Faster with TrainerRoad

daniel_b

I think I may be in a similar boat to Bob.

I'm fairly comfortable at around 90% of FTP, but the short sharp stuff I can on occasion really struggle with.

My cadence usually drops to 70 or sometimes even 60, and I find myself mashing the pedals - sometimes I can keep the cadence up, but once it drops, it's somewhat of a battle.
Sometimes it is partly in the mind, for example if I kid myself that interval 3 out of 4 is actually the last one, that can help.

Another method I use of getting through some of the longer sessions, is to swap hand positions, between tops\hoods\drops, and also the pedal quadrants, so maybe kick\pull\lift & stomp (Typically I would spend 1-2 minutes on each) - I may also combine this, depending on my level of fatigue and desperation, with counting - ie to around 90, as that is my current natural cadence.

daniel_b

Here's an idea - opinions please.

I am considering finishing my plan a bit earlier that originally intended, but still on target as it were and within the 8 weeks, and then carrying out an FTP (Twin 8) test perhaps 4 or 5 days before the hill climb that I have coming up on 1st October.

Thinking that I am as prepped as I can be really, this should give me a physchological boost in terms of hopefully (!) an improved FTP, and it will also give me some useful stats that I can use to help me on the day, namely what I was able to hold for 8 minutes flat out, maximal effort, so then I can apply a 1XX% multiplication, and try that on the day.

Even if I have reduction in FTP, it will still be a good measure of where I am at this moment in time.
Or is the stress too much that close to an event?

I would then take a couple of days off, and carry out some low intensity spinning sessions, or just a couple of workouts that I completed just before the FTP test.

Good idea, or bad idea?

slowmart

I'm a quarter of the way through the sweet spot medium volume plan and I'm really enjoying the drills and different rides and redoing my FTP test.

I'm already thinking of the build phase and I'd be grateful for any informed opinion and a more personal context to the difference in intensity with the build phase. I'll probably go for the general plan and I'm considering the high volume option but lacking any context other than the TSS and IF score which I'm too inexperienced to derive any informed insight.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

daniel_b

Slowmart wrote:

I'm a quarter of the way through the sweet spot medium volume plan and I'm really enjoying the drills and different rides and redoing my FTP test.

I'm already thinking of the build phase and I'd be grateful for any informed opinion and a more personal context to the difference in intensity with the build phase. I'll probably go for the general plan and I'm considering the high volume option but lacking any context other than the TSS and IF score which I'm too inexperienced to derive any informed insight.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

When you say a quarter way through, is that 3 weeks through the 12 week overall plan as in there are 2 * 6 week sweet spot?

When you say you are 'already thinking' about it, as in you are thinking of aborting sweet spot base and jumping straight to it, or you are just contemplating that as the next step after completing the whole 12 week block?

If the latter, I'll give you my personal experience, which is that I found it hard, but manageable, as it it certainly pushed me at times (As it is designed to) but I was able to sustain it, and complete all of the workouts at 100%.

Having said that, at the time, I was probably developing quicker than I would now, so I will be interested to see how I deal with it next time around, as I read a fair few reviews from people who said they really struggled with the build phase.

My next time around will likely be in January, and I wonder if I might have an issue with motivation if I do start to struggle.
I'm guessing the fitter you get, to a degree the harder it is to make those gains - a bit like the inverse of weight loss, as in it's fairly easy to make some big losses early on, but the leaner you get, the more tough it is to get those extra lbs or grams to shift.

I have set myself a kind of target of a 5 watt gain per month next year - clearly at some point that will be unachievable, but I'm curious to see how far I can push it.

EDIT: To add I have only ever attempted the mid volume plans, for Sweet Spot Base, Build, and Speciality.

slowmart

I'll complete the base before beginning the build phase. Unfortunately I had a man look when I started the base and began part 2 first. I start my fourth week on Tuesday and I'm contemplating what to do for my second 6 week base phase. I've been in touch with the live chat guys at Trainer road who gave me some food for thought and what I'm leaning toward is keeping the mid volume and using the same part 2 plan as a base and swapping a few rides for a like for like ride with a higher TSS score.

Its a stretch to finish some of the rides but thats the point eh! I conscious to fuel correctly and ensure I get plenty of sleep which puts me in the best place to complete the rides at 100%.

Best wishes on your monthly watts target!

bobmcstuff

The build workouts are generally harder anyway so I would have thought going from mid vol in base to high vol in build could be difficult.

Their idea of swapping out some of the workouts for similar but higher TSS ones might be better.

I do something similar as I have only ever done the low volume plans - supplemented by outdoor riding or additional similar TR workouts as life dictates.

bobmcstuff

Failed my FTP test - was expecting a slight increase on last time but couldn't even hold my old power. Gutted

daniel_b

bobmcstuff wrote:

Failed my FTP test - was expecting a slight increase on last time but couldn't even hold my old power. Gutted

Sorry to hear that Bob - did you complete the session, or abort early?

Might just have been a bad day\lack of sleep\coming down with something?

I majorly failed on a session the other week, put it down to lack of sleep and an off day, first one I aborted in nearly 150 - have always crawled through somehow. Was back to full capacity afterwards though, although this mornings effort was not all that.

I too am planning an FTP on Wednesday, and am not convinced I am going to improve, which I am guessing will be a big de-motivator :?

What are your plans for future sessions?

Have you just completed a plan?

If so, days rest, spinny session, and then another crack at it?

I am at the end of the specialist course, and after this am planning to go back to sweet spot base for 12 weeks.

I'll update on here, probably, with my FTP result next week.

Out of interest, if you don't mind sharing, what was your current FTP, and what were you hoping to hit?
Did you manage to hold your desired power for any length of time, or was it immediately obvious it wasn't going to happen?

slowmart

There's no such thing as failed FTP Bob,it's a measurement at a point in a journey. Failure only happens when you give up