Tour de France Stage 11 *Spoiler*

ddraver

Mostly not me

As I drunkenly said last night, it would have been a totally different situation if Froome had been a team leader. The other riders, Wiggins included would have ridden totally differently. Can't tell naff all from a 10 second dig!

styxd

Rick Chasey wrote:

OK. Quick poll.

Who thinks Froome should have gone for it?

Yes, but I think Wiggins should have gone with him aswell to prove he's as good a rider. If he'd stayed with him then fair enough. But if Froome had left him for dead then he deserves it.

MrTapir

Nor I.

RichN95.

Rick Chasey wrote:

OK. Quick poll.

Who thinks Froome should have gone for it?

Not me. This is his job, not a hobby. He'll have plenty of future chances.

Turfle

No.

Possibly strengthening 2nd is not worth potentially risking 1st.

iainf72

Not me.

PBo

styxd wrote:

Do you know anything about stage racing?

Not really!

But surely the best/fastest rider should win? Doesnt seem like much of a race otherwise?

I've been on the receiving end of this sort of racing before - dragged some bloke all the way round the last sportive I entered (it was very windy). Only for him to skip the final foodstop and cycle past for a quicker time and push me out of the top 10. Spent about 15 minutes having words with the organisers at the end explaining the situation, but they couldnt (more like wouldnt!) change the times.

Have you thought of entering, you know, a race? instead of a sportive?

rick_chasey

Ah, just me then.

FoldingJoe

Rick Chasey wrote:

OK. Quick poll.

Who thinks Froome should have gone for it?

Nope. Stick with what you've got, not what might be...

ddraver

derbygrimpeur wrote:

styxd wrote:

Do you know anything about stage racing?

Not really!

But surely the best/fastest rider should win? Doesnt seem like much of a race otherwise?

I've been on the receiving end of this sort of racing before - dragged some bloke all the way round the last sportive I entered (it was very windy). Only for him to skip the final foodstop and cycle past for a quicker time and push me out of the top 10. Spent about 15 minutes having words with the organisers at the end explaining the situation, but they couldnt (more like wouldnt!) change the times.

Mega LOLZ lovely trolling

+1! That's great. I mean how dare he not stop when you stop? WTF is this?

If he'd sprinted past you in the last 200m then you could have had a gripe, but you actually stopped for a rest and something to eat FFS! Could the organiser hear you over their howls of laughter? Go and watch Stage 10 again and observe how Monsieur Voekler deals with wheel suckers!

disgruntledgoat

PBo wrote:

styxd wrote:

Do you know anything about stage racing?

Not really!

But surely the best/fastest rider should win? Doesnt seem like much of a race otherwise?

I've been on the receiving end of this sort of racing before - dragged some bloke all the way round the last sportive I entered (it was very windy). Only for him to skip the final foodstop and cycle past for a quicker time and push me out of the top 10. Spent about 15 minutes having words with the organisers at the end explaining the situation, but they couldnt (more like wouldnt!) change the times.

Have you thought of entering, you know, a race? instead of a sportive?

You argued the toss to change the results of a sportive because you have no nous?

A new low.

tailwindhome

Sean Yates wrote:

NO

Pross

I'm surprised that on a forum of regular pro cycling fans there seems to be a fundemental lack of understanding of how stage races work.

Firstly, if the race is boring it is down to the challengers not the race leader (assuming he has reasonable lead). Once you are in front the onus is on others to attack and take time out of you. You just ride to avoid losing time and minimise the amount of effort you need to make.

Secondly, attacking when you don't need to (as in Wiggins case) resulting in the new Frnech great white hope getting pulled back in and missing out on a stage win would not be a popular move. It is good politics to allow a non-threatening breakaway to win. One of the reasons Armstrong was / is so unpopular was due to him chasing down breaks that were no threat to him.

Thirdly, just because a domestique (who has been picked for his climbing ability) briefly manages to ride away from his team leader doesn't make him a better rider. Ignore the pointless speculation of whether he would or wouldn't have gained any time. We knew he was a better climber before the race started, that's why he is there. However, Wiggins put a bit of time into him on Sunday's stage from memory and has beaten him in the prologue and TT. People say it was 'only' 30 seconds but that is 1% better and beating any other contender by that margin is generally considered a decent gap. Don't forget that Froome is also benefitting from all the work being done by EBH, Rogers and Porte who are there as Wiggins support. If he wasn't on the same team they would be working against him.

Froome will get his chance at the Vuelta and if next year's Tour is particularly hilly he may get the leadership (or joint leadership) there or possibly get to lead at the Giro and help Brad again at the Tour. He has also probably been told how much longer Wiggins is intending to go on and been promised the main role once he retires. He happily signed up for 3 years in the full knowledge of the situation (and after the Vuelta last year) so why would he be feeling aggreived?

PBo

ddraver wrote:

If he'd sprinted past you in the last 200m then you could have had a gripe, but you actually stopped for a rest and something to eat FFS! Could the organiser hear you over their howls of laughter? Go and watch Stage 10 again and observe how Monsieur Voekler deals with wheel suckers!

Sticking his tongue out? Gurning?

I loved Tommy's interview afterwards about he was only sure he was going to win with about 5 metres left, because they were all so knackered and going so slow....(well in relative terms!)

morstar

Haven’t read the whole thread (I got pretty p***** off with the ridiculous level of negativity when reading last night) so apologies if this has been said already.

Froome is clearly a very strong rider and with if’s but’s and maybe’s, he could win the tour.

If Sky don’t give him a shot at a GT in the near future, it would be perfectly understandable were he to move elsewhere. However, right now he is working in aid of Wiggins and is following team orders. Now, much as armchair critics can whine about not getting the mano e mano race they want. Sky have a race to win and have a strategy to do it. They’d be the biggest chumps around if they blew it all with infighting.
If I were Froome, I’m sure in the back of my mind I’d be thinking, “hmm, I wonder?” but it would stay right there in the back of my mind. What you also need to remember is that Sky have made a large contribution to his becoming the rider he is today. Yes he has the raw talent and has to put the work in but Brailsford has both the resources and the proven track record of helping riders realise their full potential. Part of his success must be down to working in this team.

Froome on another team may have just been a solid but unspectacular rider. If he is professional he will do the job he is paid to do knowing his day will come. To attack his leader as many are suggesting may give us a sporting spectacle but could well be sh*tting on the doorstep of the people who got him there. What about the day when he is a team leader and a stronger team mate just attacks him.

It’s a team sport FFS. Mavericks are fun but hardly the future of the sport.

derbygrimpeur

You probably only need to read the last page, (nearly) everyone agrees with you

rick_chasey

.

Spot the chap who much prefers one day races....

ocdupalais

Hurrah! Voices of Reason - Thank you Pross and morstar!

People aren't thinking this through properly: apart from the divisive effects on the team of a coup d'etat (so assuming that team loyalties are now out of the window, who does Porte, Rogers, EBH, etc choose to fide for?), on the current state of play, Froome would need to find 4 minutes on Wiggins before the final TT - as barring illness/injury, Wiggins will win this by 2 min IMO.
That TT is the hammer-blow waiting for anyone trying to take Wiggins on.

ocdupalais

And the bottom line in all this is that Sky are playing a blinder! Brilliant team design that has pretty much all it's players riding like never before in the roles that they signed up for. No one is not dinging the donger... er, except maybe Cav (by his standards)

Even if Bertie and Andy were here, they may have tailed Wiggins off by the line of some of these summit finishes, but the thought of having to tail Froome off is probably scaring the sh!t out of them for the future.

styxd

disgruntledgoat wrote:

PBo wrote:

styxd wrote:

Do you know anything about stage racing?

Not really!

But surely the best/fastest rider should win? Doesnt seem like much of a race otherwise?

I've been on the receiving end of this sort of racing before - dragged some bloke all the way round the last sportive I entered (it was very windy). Only for him to skip the final foodstop and cycle past for a quicker time and push me out of the top 10. Spent about 15 minutes having words with the organisers at the end explaining the situation, but they couldnt (more like wouldnt!) change the times.

Have you thought of entering, you know, a race? instead of a sportive?

You argued the toss to change the results of a sportive because you have no nous?

A new low.

I'm not good enough to get a pro ride so winning Sportives means everything to me.

It hurt even more due to the sacrifices I made to get the miles in in preparation - i.e. Giving up my car so I could cycle into work in the pissing rain and only staying out till 12 on a Saturday night so I could get up for a long ride on the Sunday are a couple of examples.

Its a shame I love flapjack so much, otherwise I would have powered on through that last foodstop aswell.

disgruntledgoat

styxd wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

PBo wrote:

styxd wrote:

Do you know anything about stage racing?

Not really!

But surely the best/fastest rider should win? Doesnt seem like much of a race otherwise?

I've been on the receiving end of this sort of racing before - dragged some bloke all the way round the last sportive I entered (it was very windy). Only for him to skip the final foodstop and cycle past for a quicker time and push me out of the top 10. Spent about 15 minutes having words with the organisers at the end explaining the situation, but they couldnt (more like wouldnt!) change the times.

Have you thought of entering, you know, a race? instead of a sportive?

You argued the toss to change the results of a sportive because you have no nous?

A new low.

I'm not good enough to get a pro ride so winning Sportives means everything to me.

It hurt even more due to the sacrifices I made to get the miles in in preparation - i.e. Giving up my car so I could cycle into work in the pissing rain and only staying out till 12 on a Saturday night so I could get up for a long ride on the Sunday are a couple of examples.

Its a shame I love flapjack so much, otherwise I would have powered on through that last foodstop aswell.

I'd like to introduce you to Dan Francis, I feel the two of you will get along famously.

nic_77

Pross wrote:

Don't forget that Froome is also benefitting from all the work being done by EBH, Rogers and Porte who are there as Wiggins support

Actually Froome is usually riding behind Wiggins in the Sky train, protecting his rear wheel... so actually, for all but his turn on the front, he is getting more protection than Wiggins!

derbygrimpeur

styxd wrote:

I'm not good enough to get a pro ride so winning Sportives means everything to me.

It hurt even more due to the sacrifices I made to get the miles in in preparation - i.e. Giving up my car so I could cycle into work in the pissing rain and only staying out till 12 on a Saturday night so I could get up for a long ride on the Sunday are a couple of examples.

Its a shame I love flapjack so much, otherwise I would have powered on through that last foodstop aswell.

SURELY, the rest of you can see this guy is on a wind up? Stop taking him seriously about the sportive stuff.

If he is being serious then it will literally BLOW MY MIND

oldwelshman

not a wind up, he is just trying to appear to be as he knows nothing about stage racing.

frenchfighter

I just missed that little bit, maybe because I didn’t eat enough but I was also tired. I raced already a lot. But what I saw was that Wiggins and Froome are not unbeatable. I heard Wiggins shouting to Froome to slow down,” smiled Schleck. “Immediately I felt better.



When asked if he was frustrated, Froome said: "No, I follow orders at all costs. I'm part of the team and I have to do what the team asks me to do... Bradley is just as strong as me and stronger than me in the time-trials."
"You realise you can win the Tour?" a journalist asked.
"... Maybe one day," he replied. "We feel you're able to win the Tour," another persisted moments later.
"Thanks for the compliment, but I think Bradley's in a better position," Froome said.
Asked in his post-race press conference what he felt at the moment Froome attacked, Wiggins said "I was really concentrating on my effort and keeping it constant, I'd been riding for two kilometres beforehand... I didn't want to make any more of an acceleration but there was a lot of noise, a lot of things going on the radio and a bit of confusion at that point."
"He showed today that he certainly had the legs. It was another great day for the team," Wiggins added.

frenchfighter

Yellow Peril

styxd wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

PBo wrote:

styxd wrote:

Do you know anything about stage racing?

Not really!

But surely the best/fastest rider should win? Doesnt seem like much of a race otherwise?

I've been on the receiving end of this sort of racing before - dragged some bloke all the way round the last sportive I entered (it was very windy). Only for him to skip the final foodstop and cycle past for a quicker time and push me out of the top 10. Spent about 15 minutes having words with the organisers at the end explaining the situation, but they couldnt (more like wouldnt!) change the times.

Have you thought of entering, you know, a race? instead of a sportive?

You argued the toss to change the results of a sportive because you have no nous?

A new low.

I'm not good enough to get a pro ride so winning Sportives means everything to me.

It hurt even more due to the sacrifices I made to get the miles in in preparation - i.e. Giving up my car so I could cycle into work in the pissing rain and only staying out till 12 on a Saturday night so I could get up for a long ride on the Sunday are a couple of examples.

Its a shame I love flapjack so much, otherwise I would have powered on through that last foodstop aswell.

Jesus! are you serious?

How about joining a club, getting a racing licence, getting your arse kicked in a Cat 4 race (which is a proper race) and learning something about cycling.

You are incredibly sad and naive if you believe "winning" a sportive which is basically a paid ride out means anything whatsover.

I admire your devotion to training though. How about going home at 11 some nights and "smashing it" in the Fred Whitton?

Le Commentateur

iainf72 wrote:

Sky eventually need to pay the bill for all this work. Look at what happened to Liquigas in the Giro. If you do this kind of thing day after day, eventually you weaken a bit

That's why the Pyrenean stages are the second half of the final week and not a week before the end like they used to be. Whoever planned the recent editions of the Tour has learned from the Giro.

Le Commentateur

calvjones wrote:

Wonder if froome regretting that 3 year contract now?

No. Next year he is Sky's team leader – versus Contador.

Or maybe next Grand Tour.

Le Commentateur

donrhummy wrote:

it's not over for evans but he's realistically only got two more mountain stages that really offer an opportunity and he needs to make up 5 minutes to survive the TT

He's going to need a day of bad weather or some other factor that puts those above him into defensive mode. Listening to his interviews again from the past few days he sounds like someone scrabbling for excuses and sounds like the old, pre-Worlds nervous Cadel that under-achieved.