2012 Tour De France Spolier Thread

Yukirin

so taping up your helmet helped how?

aeon

so glad my office has enough cyclists to ensure we get one TV tuned to the tour and one to the tennis

tailwindhome

When I grow up I want to be Sagan


(sagging more likely....boom boom)

gabriel959

BigMat wrote:

gabriel959 wrote:

okgo wrote:

gabriel959 wrote:

Lets be honest Cav is the best at what he does but little else.

:roll:

Like saying Contador is a shoot rider because all he can do is climb well. Cav can change his style I'm sure, but why the hell would you want to when what you do best brings you the most fame, the most money, and the best qaulity of life that cycling can offer?

Sagan was nowhere yesterday, he is certainly an amazing talent, but he too looks to be more of a classics type rider that has a decent sprint rather than anything else. Time will tell, but I suspect he is going to probably end up following a similar path to Cancellara given his tt ability and what not.

He finished 6th, not bad for a 22 year old.

Actually Contador is very good at Time Trialling. I dislike the bloke though.

Sagan has won bunch sprints, up hill sprints and a time trial and he is 22. Lets compare when he is 27, shall we?

"One trick pony" Cavendish has won world and Commonwealth titles on the track, time trials and a stage race. He also puts in useful efforts in team time trials and, back to the obvious, is about as good an all round sprinter as you could ever hope to see.

Commonwhat? LOL I do see what you are saying regarding the World Track titles he has won though, although it has been a while since that. Time Trials? As far as I know he has only once won a prologue (a 2km one!) and that was in 2007 at the Tour of Britain. I wouldn't say that is Time Trialling form... Stage Races, you mean the one he won before the Tour, is it that stage race where he didn't even win a stage?

The Cavendish I know drags his ass uphill, or gets it dragged by team cars or a member of the public. The one that know is a bad sore loser, always bad mouthing when he doesn't win or things don't go his way. He only won the green jersey in the tour because you don't even have to be inside the time limit anymore.

mattsaw

TailWindHome wrote:

When I grow up I want to be Sagan

SimonAH

Mattsaw wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

When I grow up I want to be Sagan

He's practically kissing his guns and sniffing his own pits in a sort of Fish Called Wanda stylee

DonDaddyD

If he had proper stones he would have covered Sylvain Chavanel's attack OR led the reeling and then roared to victory.

I'm not saying he isn't good, clearly he has some talent and I don't dislike that. He also brings excitement to uphill sprint finishes. But like Cav, and unlike Cancellara - who he is mostly compared to, I don't enjoy watching him throughout an entire stage.

T'was a good win for him yesterday, but he showed nothing new to me.

tailwindhome

DonDaddyD wrote:

If he had proper stones he would have covered Sylvain Chavanel's attack OR led the reeling and then roared to victory.

I'm not saying he isn't good, clearly he has some talent and I don't dislike that. He also brings excitement to uphill sprint finishes. But like Cav, and unlike Cancellara - who he is mostly compared to, I don't enjoy watching him throughout an entire stage.

T'was a good win for him yesterday, but he showed nothing new to me.

You do post some nonsense.

bigmat

TailWindHome wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

If he had proper stones he would have covered Sylvain Chavanel's attack OR led the reeling and then roared to victory.

I'm not saying he isn't good, clearly he has some talent and I don't dislike that. He also brings excitement to uphill sprint finishes. But like Cav, and unlike Cancellara - who he is mostly compared to, I don't enjoy watching him throughout an entire stage.

T'was a good win for him yesterday, but he showed nothing new to me.

You do post some nonsense.

He just has very high standards, keeps the newcomer on his toes. I have no doubt Sagan will be reading this and planning something really special over the next dew stages...

clarkey cat

He has won 66% of the TDF stages he has competed in. He has never come lower than 4th.
He is 22 years old. Born in the 1990s no less.
Ivan Basson is his super-domestique.
He seems to be having a whale of a time.

So far, he is the best thing about this TdF.

(I realise we're only 4 days in)

Wrath Rob

DonDaddyD wrote:

If he had proper stones he would have covered Sylvain Chavanel's attack OR led the reeling and then roared to victory.

Its a 3 week race. You don't go around p1ssing away energy just to make your victory look more impressive.

BTW, DDD, how's your racing career going?

rubertoe

Good win (again) for Sagan, he is a bit of a knob though.

tailwindhome

clarkey cat wrote:

He seems to be having a whale of a time.

Some people don't like that.


Don't underestimate how good a win that was. To open up a timeable gap over the best riders in the world and while showboating over the line is incredible.

More power to him.

The green jersey competition is over (if he makes it to Paris)

DonDaddyD

He has won 66% of the TDF stages he has competed in. He has never come lower than 4th.
He is 22 years old. Born in the 1990s no less.
Ivan Basson is his super-domestique.
He seems to be having a whale of a time.

So far, he is the best thing about this TdF.[/quote]

1. It's the first week, finishing no lower than 4th - where did he come in the prologue - is cool, he'll resume his role as domestique to Nibali when the road goes upwards.
2. I'm not seeing the significance of this "Born in the 1990s" buzzphrase. Time moves forward, not backwards sideways, upwards or downwards. As time progresses we were always bound to see a professional rider born in the 90s. It wasn't that great an era anyway.
3. Benefit of a strong team and a testament to good rider and once potential GC contender (Basso) doing his part for the team. I always like it when names put their ego's/reputation to the side and work for their teammates I hope Sagan does the same for Nibali when called upon.
4. That he is, with arrogant celebrations et al.

Personally I think the crashes, the uniformity and strength of the BMC and Radioshack team,s the dynamic of team Sky Wiggins/Cavendish are all great things about this tour. Sagan's wins are interesting but I choose to reserve judgement for when he gets the challenge his supposed talent demands.

Wrath Rob wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

If he had proper stones he would have covered Sylvain Chavanel's attack OR led the reeling and then roared to victory.

Its a 3 week race. You don't go around p1ssing away energy just to make your victory look more impressive.

He is not going to win, I'm not sure he'll ever win a Grand Tour. Impressive wins in week one is likely what he'll take from this Tour, so yeah! I'd expect him to make them look as impressive as possible.

BTW, DDD, how's your racing career going?

I am a spectator, like any fan of any sport I have an opinion.

tailwindhome

He was nowhere in the prologue. The 3 road stages were 2 wins and a 6th.

I don't think he'll be a domestique when the road goes up - he'll be picking up intermediate points and making sure he finishes each day just inside the cut off. His target for this Tour must be the green jersey.

tailwindhome

DonDaddyD wrote:

Sagan's wins are interesting but I choose to reserve judgement for when he gets the challenge his supposed talent demands.

I know I'm biting but.... what challenge is it you're expecting for him?

t4tomo

Bickering about whether Sagan is a knob or not aside*, I've also been impressed by the chap in the polka dot jersey. getting into the breakaway 2 days in a row and being first up a minor molehill or two to keep himself in the jersey was great going. Team sponsors must be well happy with him.

* OK day one I thought he was a bit cocky, but I'm warming to him. FFS he's just won 2 stage in his first tour in week 1, why not celebrate a bit. Cav has showed him that as a pure sprinter he isn't there yet, but he's proving he can walk the walk as a well as talk the talk on these bumpy stages / finishes. Be interesting to see how he goes in the Alps. Given how few pure sprint finished there are, I reckon he's a good bet for green.

Is he in the Olympic road race?

gabriel959

DonDaddyD wrote:

He has won 66% of the TDF stages he has competed in. He has never come lower than 4th.
He is 22 years old. Born in the 1990s no less.
Ivan Basson is his super-domestique.
He seems to be having a whale of a time.

So far, he is the best thing about this TdF.

1. It's the first week, finishing no lower than 4th - where did he come in the prologue - is cool, he'll resume his role as domestique to Nibali when the road goes upwards.
2. I'm not seeing the significance of this "Born in the 1990s" buzzphrase. Time moves forward, not backwards sideways, upwards or downwards. As time progresses we were always bound to see a professional rider born in the 90s. It wasn't that great an era anyway.
3. Benefit of a strong team and a testament to good rider and once potential GC contender (Basso) doing his part for the team. I always like it when names put their ego's/reputation to the side and work for their teammates I hope Sagan does the same for Nibali when called upon.
4. That he is, with arrogant celebrations et al.

Personally I think the crashes, the uniformity and strength of the BMC and Radioshack team,s the dynamic of team Sky Wiggins/Cavendish are all great things about this tour. Sagan's wins are interesting but I choose to reserve judgement for when he gets the challenge his supposed talent demands.

Wrath Rob wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

If he had proper stones he would have covered Sylvain Chavanel's attack OR led the reeling and then roared to victory.

Its a 3 week race. You don't go around p1ssing away energy just to make your victory look more impressive.

He is not going to win, I'm not sure he'll ever win a Grand Tour. Impressive wins in week one is likely what he'll take from this Tour, so yeah! I'd expect him to make them look as impressive as possible.

BTW, DDD, how's your racing career going?

I am a spectator, like any fan of any sport I have an opinion.[/quote]

Right now it is difficult to say what else he can win, he is only 22 and therefore the sky is the limit seeing what he has been doing. He has penciled another couple of stages and the green jersey. I would say 4 stages and the Green Jersey would be a tremendous achievement for him.

If he continues this progression I would expect him to challenge for anything in the coming years. C'mon if Wiggins can be touted as a candidate Sagan must be within a chance.

But if you want to stick to facts, he hasn't won a Monument yet, only stages in stage races.

daviesee

The fact that we are talking about Sagan at all, far less without even mentioning the White jersey says it all.

Outstanding debut regardless of what may or may not follow.

Give the guy some credit even if you don't like his personality.

jonny_trousers

daviesee wrote:

The fact that we are talking about Sagan at all, far less without even mentioning the White jersey says it all.

Outstanding debut regardless of what may or may not follow.

Give the guy some credit even if you don't like his personality.

Agreed; he's an animal. He may be cocky, but so what? He's entitled to be. You don't become a great sportsman without self belief. Apart from anything, the way he crosses the line - irrespective of the fact that he has actually won - is a sponsor's dream and therefore his stock will have gone through the roof (if you want to be cynical about it).

As for the Cavendish bashing: I just don't get it. The guy is the best in the world at what he does. If the TDF weren't interested in creating races to showcase sprinters then there would be no points competition. It's like slagging off those focussing on KOM for being poor sprinters. Pointless. If you only admire all-rounders then only concentrate on GC, but that's not what the Tour is about.

Loving it so far.

While I'm here, I have to say I am really enjoying ITV4s highlights show. I guess hardcore, embittered roadies might find it patronising, but I like the little, informative snippets after the breaks. And Gary Imlach might be a bit too clever for his own good, but you've got to love his little pieces to camera and his snide comments. Only thing I have to moan about is 'The Dour de Francis' ( :shock: ) and the fact that Halfords are offering crappy, Carrera mountain bikes as prizes.

rolf_f

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

While I'm here, I have to say I am really enjoying ITV4s highlights show. I guess hardcore, embittered roadies might find it patronising, but I like the little, informative snippets after the breaks.

It's nicely done but it is still pretty weak in the more interesting stages - you know every clip is going to feature some action so there's no real anticipation. The fun (for me!) is watching the tension build and not knowing when someone is going to make a move - for that you have to watch the afternoon programme.

gabriel959

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

daviesee wrote:

The fact that we are talking about Sagan at all, far less without even mentioning the White jersey says it all.

Outstanding debut regardless of what may or may not follow.

Give the guy some credit even if you don't like his personality.

Agreed; he's an animal. He may be cocky, but so what? He's entitled to be. You don't become a great sportsman without self belief. Apart from anything, the way he crosses the line - irrespective of the fact that he has actually won - is a sponsor's dream and therefore his stock will have gone through the roof (if you want to be cynical about it).

As for the Cavendish bashing: I just don't get it. The guy is the best in the world at what he does. If the TDF weren't interested in creating races to showcase sprinters then there would be no points competition. It's like slagging off those focussing on KOM for being poor sprinters. Pointless. If you only admire all-rounders then only concentrate on GC, but that's not what the Tour is about.

Loving it so far.

While I'm here, I have to say I am really enjoying ITV4s highlights show. I guess hardcore, embittered roadies might find it patronising, but I like the little, informative snippets after the breaks. And Gary Imlach might be a bit too clever for his own good, but you've got to love his little pieces to camera and his snide comments. Only thing I have to moan about is 'The Dour de Francis' ( :shock: ) and the fact that Halfords are offering crappy, Carrera mountain bikes as prizes.

I wouldn't have a problem with Cav if he could drag his ass up hill. He has only won the points jersey because now it doesn't even matter if you aren't inside the time limit anymore in certain circumstances. A true green jersey win was Hushovd's the year before...

t4tomo

Rolf F wrote:

The fun (for me!) is watching the tension build and not knowing when someone is going to make a move.

watch the whole thing live then or record the full race coverage. Highlights by their nature are going to include the exciting bits or bits of relevance to the overall picture, like a favorite having a mechanical,

Gussio

Rolf F wrote:

It's nicely done but it is still pretty weak in the more interesting stages - you know every clip is going to feature some action so there's no real anticipation. The fun (for me!) is watching the tension build and not knowing when someone is going to make a move - for that you have to watch the afternoon programme.

WFH FTW 8)

greg66_tri_v2.0

gabriel959 wrote:

I wouldn't have a problem with Cav if he could drag his ass up hill. He has only won the points jersey because now it doesn't even matter if you aren't inside the time limit anymore in certain circumstances. A true green jersey win was Hushovd's the year before...

ISTR Cav showed a lot of humility and respect after Hushovd's solo ride. Which was all the more impressive as he'd been slinging some mud Thor's way a few days earlier over lines or barging or somesuch (cannot now recall the specifics).

rubertoe

Greg66 wrote:

gabriel959 wrote:

I wouldn't have a problem with Cav if he could drag his ass up hill. He has only won the points jersey because now it doesn't even matter if you aren't inside the time limit anymore in certain circumstances. A true green jersey win was Hushovd's the year before...

ISTR Cav showed a lot of humility and respect after Hushovd's solo ride. Which was all the more impressive as he'd been slinging some mud Thor's way a few days earlier over lines or barging or somesuch (cannot now recall the specifics).

Didnt Cav also get deducted points that year that if he didnt he would have won the green that year as well.

Fair play to Thor though for the mountain attack.

el_presidente

gabriel959 wrote:

I wouldn't have a problem with Cav if he could drag his ass up hill. He has only won the points jersey because now it doesn't even matter if you aren't inside the time limit anymore in certain circumstances. A true green jersey win was Hushovd's the year before...

The rules are the rules. You might as well moan about Spain winning the euros because they kept using substitutes whereas back in the day that was never allowed.

DonDaddyD

So Sagan showed that he can't win a sprint on the flat even with the best not present - shame Cav wasn't able to 'learn him some schooling'

Yeah, a proper green jersey hopeful a sprinter who can't win outright sprints.

gabriel959

Sagan showed he can stay up right and stay out of trouble and finish 5th. Cav needs to have some positional lessons, he could learn from the 22 year old or even from Freire. Anyway that is the points classification for you.

In any case won't need to have his ass pushed up hill either like Cav does.

gabriel959

el_presidente wrote:

gabriel959 wrote:

I wouldn't have a problem with Cav if he could drag his ass up hill. He has only won the points jersey because now it doesn't even matter if you aren't inside the time limit anymore in certain circumstances. A true green jersey win was Hushovd's the year before...

The rules are the rules. You might as well moan about Spain winning the euros because they kept using substitutes whereas back in the day that was never allowed.

My moan is more the fact that he breaks the rules by actually having mechanics or members of the public pushing him up hill. That is illegal and should carry a disqualification.