2012 Tour De France Spolier Thread

TheStone

Sagan would have won that stage no matter how it played out. The Cancellara attack was a minor distraction for him that he had to chase down and neutralise. (and I had a bet on Canc).

Today's interesting. Sagan again? Gilbert? An Evans attack?

okgo

TheStone wrote:

Sagan would have won that stage no matter how it played out. The Cancellara attack was a minor distraction for him that he had to chase down and neutralise. (and I had a bet on Canc).

Today's interesting. Sagan again? Gilbert? An Evans attack?

I think Fabians problem is that nobody can take a turn and keep the pace he does (not surprising, he has a power output nobody else can match) I don't doubt it would have always probably been Sagan, I think Fabian should have either gone earlier, or later (he does have a decent kick in him, but probably used too much energy by the end).

What can you do though, like the MSR there are not many ways you can play it, nobody gives you a turn, so you either take a bunch placing, or 2/3rd. I think perhaps what he needs to do is go for a longer one, but even then people will follow, so perhaps his best shot would be to go before a downhill and then try to get a gap (and just hope that you can avoid getting Nibali or someone also good downhill).

So other than that, I've no idea. Amazing that at 80kg he can stick the pace up a steep hill that many of the lightweights cannot live with.

gabriel959

Wrong on all accounts.

He did the right thing - he won the stage. Something that Cancellara didn't do. If Cancellara wants to win the stage may be he needs to do something different instead of acting like a rampant bull. He needs to think. It is not like the same didn't happen at MSR a few months back.

Sagan's celebrations are super camp and funny IMO. He is only 22 as well. Compare Cav's palmares and Sagan's at the same age and Sagan is well above in terms of quality, style and variety of wins. Lets be honest Cav is the best at what he does but little else.

DonDaddyD

Thing is I think as this week rolls on it is going to be more decisive than previous years. The GC hopeful (the real contenders Wiggins, Cadel) won't want to play their hands too early. However, if they spend too much time watching each other other, assumed lesser threats, Nibali, Valverde, Pierre Rolland for example, could come along build a significant lead in the first week that they can successfully defend in the second - largely because their riding prowess has been overshadowed by Schleck/Contador that their ability to last in the mountains is overlooked and underestimated.

That said Cadel and Wiggins could be aware of this and end up marking everyone attempting to stay at the front of every stage in the first week and blow their stack middle of the second week.

Already it is their's to lose.

gabriel959

DonDaddyD wrote:

Thing is I think as this week rolls on it is going to be more decisive than previous years. The GC hopeful (the real contenders Wiggins, Cadel) won't want to play their hands too early. However, if they spend too much time watching each other other, assumed lesser threats, Nibali, Valverde, Pierre Rolland for example, could come along build a significant lead in the first week that they can successfully defend in the second - largely because their riding prowess has been overshadowed by Schleck/Contador that their ability to last in the mountains is overlooked and underestimated.

That said Cadel and Wiggins could be aware of this and end up marking everyone attempting to stay at the front of every stage in the first week and blow their stack middle of the second week.

Already it is their's to lose.

My guess is that Wiggins will take time during the TTs and use the UK Postal team up the few mountains there are this year.

okgo

gabriel959 wrote:

Lets be honest Cav is the best at what he does but little else.

:roll:

Like saying Contador is a shit rider because all he can do is climb well. Cav can change his style I'm sure, but why the hell would you want to when what you do best brings you the most fame, the most money, and the best qaulity of life that cycling can offer?

Sagan was nowhere yesterday, he is certainly an amazing talent, but he too looks to be more of a classics type rider that has a decent sprint rather than anything else. Time will tell, but I suspect he is going to probably end up following a similar path to Cancellara given his tt ability and what not.

DonDaddyD

okgo wrote:

Sagan was nowhere yesterday, he is certainly an amazing talent, but he too looks to be more of a classics type rider that has a decent sprint rather than anything else. Time will tell, but I suspect he is going to probably end up following a similar path to Cancellara given his tt ability and what not.

Imagine if in 7 years time we are arguing over his 7 TdF wins and whether he doped. His career starts here. I don't know where it'll end up or what sort of rider he will be. I just wanted to see, as a fan, more from him against Cancellara. However, joking aside, if I was in his shoes then I would like to say I would do the same and not buckled when the older greater Cancellara told me to go infront so he could win... there I've said it.

tailwindhome

DonDaddyD wrote:

Thing is I think as this week rolls on it is going to be more decisive than previous years. The GC hopeful (the real contenders Wiggins, Cadel) won't want to play their hands too early. However, if they spend too much time watching each other other, assumed lesser threats, Nibali, Valverde, Pierre Rolland for example, could come along build a significant lead in the first week that they can successfully defend in the second .

Nothing significant is going to happen GC wise in the first week (except for crashes)

Evans may try to unsettle Wiggins by trying to grab seconds here and there. But that's it.

The first battle comes in the first TT.

Until then it's just about staying upright and not losing time by being on the wrong side of a stupid split.

tailwindhome

Sagan's 2012 - Scary Stuff

2012
Tour of Oman
1st Points Classification
1st Stage 2
Tirreno–Adriatico
1st Stage 4
Three Days of De Panne
1st Stage 1
Tour of California
1st Points Classification
1st Stage 1
1st Stage 2
1st Stage 3
1st Stage 4
1st Stage 8
Tour de Suisse
1st Points Classification
1st Stage 1 (ITT)
1st Stage 3
1st Stage 4
1st Stage 6
Tour de France
1st Stage 1
1st National Road Race Champion
4th Milan – San Remo
2nd Gent–Wevelgem
5th Tour of Flanders
3rd Amstel Gold Race

tailwindhome

Apparently Sagan is also the first rider born in the 1990's to win a TDF stage

Anyone else feel really old?

bigmat

TailWindHome wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Thing is I think as this week rolls on it is going to be more decisive than previous years. The GC hopeful (the real contenders Wiggins, Cadel) won't want to play their hands too early. However, if they spend too much time watching each other other, assumed lesser threats, Nibali, Valverde, Pierre Rolland for example, could come along build a significant lead in the first week that they can successfully defend in the second .

Nothing significant is going to happen GC wise in the first week (except for crashes)

Evans may try to unsettle Wiggins by trying to grab seconds here and there. But that's it.

The first battle comes in the first TT.

Until then it's just about staying upright and not losing time by being on the wrong side of a stupid split.

Yep, might be a bit of posturing and laying down psychological markers, but you don't win the tour in the first week - you can lose it though.

DonDaddyD

TailWindHome wrote:

Nothing significant is going to happen GC wise in the first week (except for crashes)

Evans may try to unsettle Wiggins by trying to grab seconds here and there. But that's it.

The first battle comes in the first TT.

Until then it's just about staying upright and not losing time by being on the wrong side of a stupid split.

I think Cadel is smart enough to know that he can't leave it to a TT or launch his first salvo against Wiggins in a TT. He may end up doing what he did to A.Schleck. I reckon he'll be chipping away at him in the medium mountains.

Ian.B

It's annoying me that itv don't seem to put their highlights programmes up on itv Player until the next day - I've been getting home of an evening hoping to watch it only to be frustrated...

tailwindhome

DonDaddyD wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Nothing significant is going to happen GC wise in the first week (except for crashes)

Evans may try to unsettle Wiggins by trying to grab seconds here and there. But that's it.

The first battle comes in the first TT.

Until then it's just about staying upright and not losing time by being on the wrong side of a stupid split.

I think Cadel is smart enough to know that he can't leave it to a TT or launch his first salvo against Wiggins in a TT. He may end up doing what he did to A.Schleck. I reckon he'll be chipping away at him in the medium mountains.

Look out for plenty of downhill attacking.

gabriel959

okgo wrote:

gabriel959 wrote:

Lets be honest Cav is the best at what he does but little else.

:roll:

Like saying Contador is a shoot rider because all he can do is climb well. Cav can change his style I'm sure, but why the hell would you want to when what you do best brings you the most fame, the most money, and the best qaulity of life that cycling can offer?

Sagan was nowhere yesterday, he is certainly an amazing talent, but he too looks to be more of a classics type rider that has a decent sprint rather than anything else. Time will tell, but I suspect he is going to probably end up following a similar path to Cancellara given his tt ability and what not.

He finished 6th, not bad for a 22 year old.

Actually Contador is very good at Time Trialling. I dislike the bloke though.

Sagan has won bunch sprints, up hill sprints and a time trial and he is 22. Lets compare when he is 27, shall we?

greg66_tri_v2.0

Sagan - winner of his first full road stage in his first Tour - was being compared to Merckx last night on the highlights programme.

Merckx did the same thing, apparently. Then went on in the same Tour - his first - to win the green jersey, the polka dot jersey and the yellow jersey. And would have won the white jersey, had it existed.

Makes you realise just how much Merckx ripped up cycling.

cjcp

DonDaddyD wrote:

Basically Sagan is a drafting fairy and a woos.

I'd have more respect for him if he had ridden Cancellara off his wheel up to the sprint and onto the finish line.

I'm sorry; if he did what now?

Earth to DDD; come in, DDD.

This is Cancellara we're talking about; not some bloke in baggies on Embankment.

And Cancellara lacked wisdom? Dude, seriously. Yes, Obi Wan; he's like a petulant young Skywalker. Remember back in 2007, on stage 2 or 3 I think it was, when he attacked a km from the finish. And won.

He also did the same in Compiegne (sp.?) this year.

How's outer space these days?

DonDaddyD

cjcp wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Basically Sagan is a drafting fairy and a woos.

I'd have more respect for him if he had ridden Cancellara off his wheel up to the sprint and onto the finish line.

I'm sorry; if he did what now?

Earth to DDD; come in, DDD.

This is Cancellara we're talking about; not some bloke in baggies on Embankment.

And Cancellara lacked wisdom? Dude, seriously. Yes, Obi Wan; he's like a petulant young Skywalker. Remember back in 2007, on stage 2 or 3 I think it was, when he attacked a km from the finish. And won.

He also did the same in Compiegne (sp.?) this year.

How's outer space these days?

That did make me laugh!

tailwindhome

Greg66 wrote:

Sagan - winner of his first full road stage in his first Tour - was being compared to Merckx last night on the highlights programme.

Merckx did the same thing, apparently. Then went on in the same Tour - his first - to win the green jersey, the polka dot jersey and the yellow jersey. And would have won the white jersey, had it existed.

Makes you realise just how much Merckx ripped up cycling.

Per Wikipedia (and assuming the season had the same running order) Merckx already had 1 Giro (+KOM, points and 10 stages), 1 Paris-Nice, 3 Milan San Remo, 1 Ronde, 1 Paris Roubaix and 1 WC by the time he even got to the tour.

No one will ever be the new Merckx. Ever.

I think Sagan is more like the new Kelly.

bigmat

gabriel959 wrote:

okgo wrote:

gabriel959 wrote:

Lets be honest Cav is the best at what he does but little else.

:roll:

Like saying Contador is a shoot rider because all he can do is climb well. Cav can change his style I'm sure, but why the hell would you want to when what you do best brings you the most fame, the most money, and the best qaulity of life that cycling can offer?

Sagan was nowhere yesterday, he is certainly an amazing talent, but he too looks to be more of a classics type rider that has a decent sprint rather than anything else. Time will tell, but I suspect he is going to probably end up following a similar path to Cancellara given his tt ability and what not.

He finished 6th, not bad for a 22 year old.

Actually Contador is very good at Time Trialling. I dislike the bloke though.

Sagan has won bunch sprints, up hill sprints and a time trial and he is 22. Lets compare when he is 27, shall we?

"One trick pony" Cavendish has won world and Commonwealth titles on the track, time trials and a stage race. He also puts in useful efforts in team time trials and, back to the obvious, is about as good an all round sprinter as you could ever hope to see.

t4tomo

Ian.B wrote:

It's annoying me that itv don't seem to put their highlights programmes up on itv Player until the next day - I've been getting home of an evening hoping to watch it only to be frustrated...

sky+ record series

rjsterry

gabriel959 wrote:

...
Actually Contador is very good at Time Trialling. I dislike the bloke though.
...

I get the impression you have quite a list going, but as you say, let's wait and see.

Gussio

Cav just executed his "one trick" like a boss in the intermediate sprint. Impressive that he had air left in his lungs to berate Van Hummel.

DonDaddyD

Air in his lungs? Did you listen to his post match interview? The guy could barely form a sentence that made sense.

Gussio

DonDaddyD wrote:

Air in his lungs? Did you listen to his post match interview? The guy could barely form a sentence that made sense.

Was refering to the intermediate sprint which just took place on today's stage....

greg66_tri_v2.0

Watching the live ITV4 coverage online. Sammy Sanchez's Di2/EPS seemed to have jammed. So the team car pulls alongside the non drive side of the bike, and a mech leans out, reaches round the rear wheel, and starts adjusting the rear mech. All at somewhere between 40 and 50kmh.

Chances of losing some fingers? Reasonable, I'd say.

rjsterry

Greg66 wrote:

Watching the live ITV4 coverage online. Sammy Sanchez's Di2/EPS seemed to have jammed. So the team car pulls alongside the non drive side of the bike, and a mech leans out, reaches round the rear wheel, and starts adjusting the rear mech. All at somewhere between 40 and 50kmh.

Chances of losing some fingers? Reasonable, I'd say.

Not to mention falling out of the car and losing a lot of skin :shock:

Just looked a potential new office yesterday with the boss - within 20m of LMNH, so would have seen me spending far too much time and money on lunch, but sadly it was a money pit and it's been binned.

spasypaddy

Sagan is an animal

clarkey cat

paging DDD to the thread.

gabriel959

rjsterry wrote:

gabriel959 wrote:

...
Actually Contador is very good at Time Trialling. I dislike the bloke though.
...

I get the impression you have quite a list going, but as you say, let's wait and see.

I do like quite a lot of riders to be fair, Roux, Freire, Morkov...

Anyway, Sagan won today as expected. Super-clown celebration as well. Love it