USADA files doping charges against Lance
Comments
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Your good value mate that's all i have to sayTake care of the luxuries and the necessites will take care of themselves.0
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Rundfahrt wrote:Richard-Asking the question quite clearly implies that I have said something to that end...which I have not. I have also posted a number of other items in this thread that are words being put in my mouth.
Jez mon- I get it, you don't know of any, but are an expert on doping investigations.
Meh, I haven't made that claim, but thanks for the kind words
FWIW, I can't think of an anti doping investigations similar to this at all, most investigations seem much more clear cut to this, rider tests positive, or misses a number of tests, they either appeal or take a ban. At the more exotic end of the spectrum, we might get a rider's blood found in a suspicious place or some suspicious payments going to a gynaecologist for training plans...
In this case we have rider testimony, and blood values which appear to be consistent with manipulation.You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
iainf72 wrote:dennisn wrote:
I don't "know this". It's just a feeling I get in reading all the posts. Bunch of people obcessed with one person, this person has done nothing but wrong his entire life and you can prove it, a whole lot of hatred thrown in on top of that, sprinkle in a few people who want his head on a stake, and I do believe that if you all got together in a "mob" that you might try and take justice into your own hands. Is that so hard to picture? Happens a whole lot more than people think.richard wants a baum wrote:Dennis you've never meet us how could you possibly know this :shock:
You slay me Den. There's one person on this thread obsessed with one person. Pretty much everyone else posts on all the other threads and enjoys the racing.
C'mon you don't see some of the people on here standing in a mob, outside of a courtroom, listening to "bernie" rant about LA's evils and maybe getting a little out of hand? Maybe a rock is thrown, all hell breaks loose, and in the end the "mob" does something that it may regret? I can picture something like that happening just as clear as day. Doesn't have anything to do with a particular person. It's all about the "witch".0 -
dennisn wrote:
I don't "know this". It's just a feeling I get in reading all the posts. Bunch of people obcessed with one person, this person has done nothing but wrong his entire life and you can prove it, a whole lot of hatred thrown in on top of that, sprinkle in a few people who want his head on a stake, and I do believe that if you all got together in a "mob" that you might try and take justice into your own hands. Is that so hard to picture? Happens a whole lot more than people think.richard wants a baum wrote:Dennis you've never meet us how could you possibly know this :shock:
Id agree with you if everyone here had made up their mind based on a dislike of the bloke, which you might like to intimate they have. But I think you have to give people credit, they're reading and digesting a lot of information, not just on Armstrong, but on the complex subject of doping in technical terms.
I for one think its generally just people taking a very healthy/enjoyable interest in one of the topics that surrounds a sport they are interested in, but its clear you see it as biased, irrational and weird. Nevermind though, its only chit-chat at the end of the day (to paraphrase Mr Beckham).
I don't know how much you cycle, but maybe watch this again if you haven't... natural superhuman ability or unnatural?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6DmNMGEuI00 -
bompington wrote:tremayne wrote:Oh - and where's BB when we need him most?
Priceless! I think he'd like that.
BB, though, he's one of the 'good guys'.
"Lick My Decals Off, Baby"0 -
dennisn wrote:It's all about the "witch".
Is it...?? You see, I perceive LA as an Unlikeable Berk, BUT, he has a complete right to be an Unlikeable Berk, and I have no problem with him being one.
What he doesn't have a right to do is cheat (allegedly).
The first statement doesn't hold any influence over the second.0 -
mfin wrote:dennisn wrote:
I don't "know this". It's just a feeling I get in reading all the posts. Bunch of people obcessed with one person, this person has done nothing but wrong his entire life and you can prove it, a whole lot of hatred thrown in on top of that, sprinkle in a few people who want his head on a stake, and I do believe that if you all got together in a "mob" that you might try and take justice into your own hands. Is that so hard to picture? Happens a whole lot more than people think.richard wants a baum wrote:Dennis you've never meet us how could you possibly know this :shock:
I for one think its generally just people taking a very healthy/enjoyable interest in one of the topics that surrounds a sport they are interested in, but its clear you see it as biased, irrational and weird. Nevermind though, its only chit-chat at the end of the day (to paraphrase Mr Beckham).
I see your point. You and I think differently. Although I'm pretty sure that there are a few people who might think you are "biased, irrational, and weird" for thinking that the average guy next door, fellow poster, forum ranter, aren't capable of this kind of thing.0 -
dennisn wrote:mfin wrote:dennisn wrote:
I don't "know this". It's just a feeling I get in reading all the posts. Bunch of people obcessed with one person, this person has done nothing but wrong his entire life and you can prove it, a whole lot of hatred thrown in on top of that, sprinkle in a few people who want his head on a stake, and I do believe that if you all got together in a "mob" that you might try and take justice into your own hands. Is that so hard to picture? Happens a whole lot more than people think.richard wants a baum wrote:Dennis you've never meet us how could you possibly know this :shock:
I for one think its generally just people taking a very healthy/enjoyable interest in one of the topics that surrounds a sport they are interested in, but its clear you see it as biased, irrational and weird. Nevermind though, its only chit-chat at the end of the day (to paraphrase Mr Beckham).
I see your point. You and I think differently. Although I'm pretty sure that there are a few people who might think you are "biased, irrational, and weird" for thinking that the average guy next door, fellow poster, forum ranter, aren't capable of this kind of thing.
You mean sort of 'capable of mob mentality'?? No, I don't think they are, well, not to any definition that even fits some of the hypotheticals there.... but, I am sending you a hypothetical beer. Cheers.0 -
mfin wrote:dennisn wrote:mfin wrote:dennisn wrote:
I don't "know this". It's just a feeling I get in reading all the posts. Bunch of people obcessed with one person, this person has done nothing but wrong his entire life and you can prove it, a whole lot of hatred thrown in on top of that, sprinkle in a few people who want his head on a stake, and I do believe that if you all got together in a "mob" that you might try and take justice into your own hands. Is that so hard to picture? Happens a whole lot more than people think.richard wants a baum wrote:Dennis you've never meet us how could you possibly know this :shock:
I for one think its generally just people taking a very healthy/enjoyable interest in one of the topics that surrounds a sport they are interested in, but its clear you see it as biased, irrational and weird. Nevermind though, its only chit-chat at the end of the day (to paraphrase Mr Beckham).
I see your point. You and I think differently. Although I'm pretty sure that there are a few people who might think you are "biased, irrational, and weird" for thinking that the average guy next door, fellow poster, forum ranter, aren't capable of this kind of thing.
You mean sort of 'capable of mob mentality'?? No, I don't think they are, well, not to any definition that even fits some of the hypotheticals there.... but, I am sending you a hypothetical beer. Cheers.
I'll take the beer. Supposed to be almost 100 degrees here today. Was going to go riding early this morning but got involved watching the TDF and now it's just too nasty hot and humid out there. Tommorrow, I promise. Anyway, thanks for the beer.0 -
Rundfahrt wrote:Tremayne- Perhaps you should look in the mirror before you start talking about "blinkered opinions."
Ok. Probably unfair, but its a free world.
How about we veer away from opinion just for a very short while. I'll lay down what I consider to be some fairly indesputable facts, and you can let me know what you think (ie - your opinion).
1/. USADA aren't going after one man (ie LanceA), they are after a group of people involved in what they believe to extend to trafficking, supplying etc. Lance is simply one part of the group.
2/. I'm not aware he's been singled out by USADA for any particular special treatment at this point.
3/. Unlike USADA, the media however, have been like wolves and are fixated with Lance and have very much focused on him alone. This is due to his stardom, his huge success, the fact that he is already a serious public figure.
4/. Lance was given the choice to speak to USADA but chose not to cooperate.0 -
Wrong thread!0
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tremayne wrote:Rundfahrt wrote:Tremayne- Perhaps you should look in the mirror before you start talking about "blinkered opinions."
Ok. Probably unfair, but its a free world.
How about we veer away from opinion just for a very short while. I'll lay down what I consider to be some fairly indesputable facts, and you can let me know what you think (ie - your opinion).
1/. USADA aren't going after one man (ie LanceA), they are after a group of people involved in what they believe to extend to trafficking, supplying etc. Lance is simply one part of the group.
2/. I'm not aware he's been singled out by USADA for any particular special treatment at this point.
3/. Unlike USADA, the media however, have been like wolves and are fixated with Lance and have very much focused on him alone. This is due to his stardom, his huge success, the fact that he is already a serious public figure.
4/. Lance was given the choice to speak to USADA but chose not to cooperate.
With the exception of 4, I have responded to all of this in this thread. When it comes to number four there was little reason for him to speak to them as they have already made their accusations and gone public with them.
I'll let you in on a little secret: my opinions are based on facts because I have some pretty good connections in American sports...including the USADA.0 -
Rundfahrt wrote:
With the exception of 4, I have responded to all of this in this thread. When it comes to number four there was little reason for him to speak to them as they have already made their accusations and gone public with them.
They hadn't gone public with them. He was offered the chance to speak to them ages ago.
Remind me, who's done the leaking of documents in this case? (clue : it's not USADA)Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:Rundfahrt wrote:
With the exception of 4, I have responded to all of this in this thread. When it comes to number four there was little reason for him to speak to them as they have already made their accusations and gone public with them.
They hadn't gone public with them. He was offered the chance to speak to them ages ago.
Remind me, who's done the leaking of documents in this case? (clue : it's not USADA)
Really? How do you know that the USADA or employees of the USADA have done the leaking?0 -
iainf72 wrote:Rundfahrt wrote:
With the exception of 4, I have responded to all of this in this thread. When it comes to number four there was little reason for him to speak to them as they have already made their accusations and gone public with them.
They hadn't gone public with them. He was offered the chance to speak to them ages ago.
Remind me, who's done the leaking of documents in this case? (clue : it's not USADA)
You're fighting a losing battle against someone who is determined to get the last word no matter what the facts show. Shame BB isn't still around, it would be like watching one of those old bare knuckle fights that went on for days!0 -
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0
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with his connections in USDA, I wouldn't be surprised if Rundfahrt didn't do the leaking.--
Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails0 -
He's gone for a leak over this thread a few times.0
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livestrong_wristband
...at the top it says "This article has multiple issues. Please help improve it", obviously true, but it doesn't say the same thing on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_Armstrong, which seems very odd considering.0 -
dennisn wrote:FWIW I keep hearing the words "witch hunt" on this topic. Somehow I doubt that USADA is out there to do this, although the possiblity does exist. I'm thinking that after going through almost 70 pages of all this that the "witch hunters" are you. It's a good thing all of you are not together in a "mob" and deciding anyones fate. Sounds like at the very least you would be burning books and quite possibly people too. Thank God this is only the Internet and you're all too lazy to band together to actually accomplish your desires for "justice".
Do you inject or snort your drugs?0 -
Bakunin wrote:dennisn wrote:FWIW I keep hearing the words "witch hunt" on this topic. Somehow I doubt that USADA is out there to do this, although the possiblity does exist. I'm thinking that after going through almost 70 pages of all this that the "witch hunters" are you. It's a good thing all of you are not together in a "mob" and deciding anyones fate. Sounds like at the very least you would be burning books and quite possibly people too. Thank God this is only the Internet and you're all too lazy to band together to actually accomplish your desires for "justice".
Do you inject or snort your drugs?
Would you want some of the hatred and suspicion shown on this thread to decide your fate at anything?0 -
dennisn wrote:Bakunin wrote:dennisn wrote:FWIW I keep hearing the words "witch hunt" on this topic. Somehow I doubt that USADA is out there to do this, although the possiblity does exist. I'm thinking that after going through almost 70 pages of all this that the "witch hunters" are you. It's a good thing all of you are not together in a "mob" and deciding anyones fate. Sounds like at the very least you would be burning books and quite possibly people too. Thank God this is only the Internet and you're all too lazy to band together to actually accomplish your desires for "justice".
Do you inject or snort your drugs?
Would you want some of the hatred and suspicion shown on this thread to decide your fate at anything?
They don't though. At the end of the day, this is just a forum, it's a bit of fun.You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
dennisn wrote:FWIW I keep hearing the words "witch hunt" on this topic. Somehow I doubt that USADA is out there to do this, although the possiblity does exist. I'm thinking that after going through almost 70 pages of all this that the "witch hunters" are you. It's a good thing all of you are not together in a "mob" and deciding anyones fate. Sounds like at the very least you would be burning books and quite possibly people too. Thank God this is only the Internet and you're all too lazy to band together to actually accomplish your desires for "justice".
Great reading - but does sound a bit melodramatic!
Can you handle the truth? We (the witch hunt) are just a bunch of people who have the dubious honour of wishing to follow a sport that has probably been more rife with drugs over the decades than most others put together. Some of us are in denial, some less so. Some have become utterly obessed to the point of even getting themselves banned on this forum (twice, no less!). The problem of loving a sport that has spent much of its life operating in a drug riddled gutter, is a difficult cross to bear. So much so, that some on here have also simply accepted the 'status quo'.
However, in amongst all this - for perhaps the first time, significant numbers of riders (current and ex) have been forced to break the secret omerta. I won't say 'have willingly volunteered' because I'm certain great amounts of leverage was brought to bear. Anyway - they've squeeked, and now we have the fall out, the carnage.
Yes, perhaps cyclings biggest superstar is about to be taken down in the process. So be it. It's not actually all about him, and if it was - I'd feel a lot less happy. It's about making some inroads into the shit and filth that inhabit some high echelons of our sport.
LA will go down. But for me, he isn't the problem. He did what was neccessary at the time to win races. He did it well and made for an exceptionally convincing hero. The 'system' might just about to get a clean up - and ironic that we have some americans to thank for it.
I also can't see how those currently in the gun-sights will go down without implicating or creating further damage. All part of the process imo.0 -
andrewjoseph wrote:with his connections in USDA, I wouldn't be surprised if Rundfahrt didn't do the leaking.
Ha Ha!!! Is this going to be like Rodrigo Hernandez's inside connections at Sky? You know the ones he posts with absolute certainty on here and are then proved upside down and inside out a day later...?
I always love those!We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Pross wrote:iainf72 wrote:Rundfahrt wrote:
With the exception of 4, I have responded to all of this in this thread. When it comes to number four there was little reason for him to speak to them as they have already made their accusations and gone public with them.
They hadn't gone public with them. He was offered the chance to speak to them ages ago.
Remind me, who's done the leaking of documents in this case? (clue : it's not USADA)
You're fighting a losing battle against someone who is determined to get the last word no matter what the facts show. Shame BB isn't still around, it would be like watching one of those old bare knuckle fights that went on for days!
It's interesting to see how many posts you have that don't have anything to do with the topic and are merely attacks or insults.0 -
ddraver wrote:andrewjoseph wrote:with his connections in USDA, I wouldn't be surprised if Rundfahrt didn't do the leaking.
Ha Ha!!! Is this going to be like Rodrigo Hernandez's inside connections at Sky? You know the ones he posts with absolute certainty on here and are then proved upside down and inside out a day later...?
I always love those!
Ah yes the famous "Renshaw has definitely signed for Sky, without a doubt, i know for a fact".0 -
tremayne wrote:dennisn wrote:FWIW I keep hearing the words "witch hunt" on this topic. Somehow I doubt that USADA is out there to do this, although the possiblity does exist. I'm thinking that after going through almost 70 pages of all this that the "witch hunters" are you. It's a good thing all of you are not together in a "mob" and deciding anyones fate. Sounds like at the very least you would be burning books and quite possibly people too. Thank God this is only the Internet and you're all too lazy to band together to actually accomplish your desires for "justice".
Great reading - but does sound a bit melodramatic!
Can you handle the truth? We (the witch hunt) are just a bunch of people who have the dubious honour of wishing to follow a sport that has probably been more rife with drugs over the decades than most others put together. Some of us are in denial, some less so. Some have become utterly obessed to the point of even getting themselves banned on this forum (twice, no less!). The problem of loving a sport that has spent much of its life operating in a drug riddled gutter, is a difficult cross to bear.
I'll agree with "a bit melodramatic". "Can I handle the truth?". Not sure what's to handle, if you get my meaning. None of this is about you and I or anyone on this forum for that matter. It's about drugs and cycling. Now I like cycling and at my age I most likely take enough drugs to get me banned or to test positive should I actually get tested, but it's still not about me(call me selfish). I've been riding for many years now, watched more than a few Pro races, am a USA Cycling official, was very active, for years, in a local racing club as both organizer and not so good a racer. Even with all that I do not find Pro cycling's drug problem "a difficult cross to bear". Never have and why should I? There is no way I'm going to let some racers who choose to use drugs spoil my enjoyment of the sport. I'm still out here pedaling away with no guilt on my mind.0 -
Good response and fair enough. As I mentioned, many others have also given up bothering whether a rider dopes or not.
I haven't and would love to see a clean sport. Will we ever get that? I'm not sure, but I am sure that taking down the doctors and those heavily involved is a positive step. Having some big stars grass LA is also very positive. Not because it's him, becaus it shows the omertà can be broken.0 -
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0
