F1 and Cycling cross paths
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Duplicate post. :oops:0
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And 70 years ago people were arguing much the same in favour of old-school Fascism, rather than it's modern corporate version. After all, they did get the trains to run on time, didn't they?RichN95 wrote:
If those values give us McLaren instead of British Leyland, then I'm all for it.BikingBernie wrote:
As I said, Ecclestone and F1 perfectly embody - and promote - the 'values' of modern neo-liberal capitalism...Rick Chasey wrote:Bernie is quite a basic individual. He wants cash - regardless of the politics. He's totally not fussed. If Pol Pot gave him cash for F1 and he recon it'd make him and F1 more money he'd have gone.
Anyhow, what's so good about McClaren, they are hardly building "the peoples' car", are they?0 -
BikingBernie wrote:
And 70 years ago people were arguing much the same in favour of old-school Fascism, rather than it's modern corporate version, after all they did get the trains to run on time, didn't they?RichN95 wrote:
If those values give us McLaren instead of British Leyland, then I'm all for it.BikingBernie wrote:
As I said, Ecclestone and F1 perfectly embody - and promote - the 'values' of modern neo-liberal capitalism...Rick Chasey wrote:Bernie is quite a basic individual. He wants cash - regardless of the politics. He's totally not fussed. If Pol Pot gave him cash for F1 and he recon it'd make him and F1 more money he'd have gone.
Anyhow, what's so good about McClaren, they are hardly building "the peoples' car", are they?
People's car? Now where have I heard that before?
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BikingBernie wrote:Anyhow, what's so good about McClaren, they are hardly building "the peoples' car", are they?
Precisely.
And I wonder if they contribute to the UK economy via taxes or do they avoid them.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:I call Goodwin's law.
Shame. T'was a fun thread with all the pictures.
Oh no, I've ruined it for everyone. I am so sorry. How about a picture of Kimi with a Colnago to try and get things back on track? Everyone likes Kimi, right?0 -
British Leyland also provided work for over a quarter of a million employees, plus tens of thousands more in automotive component manufacturing companies. McClaren Automotive employ 1500, so they are pretty much an irrelevance in the great scheme of things.frenchfighter wrote:
Precisely.BikingBernie wrote:Anyhow, what's so good about McClaren, they are hardly building "the peoples' car", are they?
And I wonder if they contribute to the UK economy via taxes or do they avoid them.0 -
Alain Prost absolutely blazed past me on the descent of the Lauteret on teh Marmotte back in 2006.
I got him on the Alpe though."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
greasedscotsman wrote:Oh no, I've ruined it for everyone. I am so sorry. How about a picture of Kimi with a Colnago to try and get things back on track? Everyone likes Kimi, right?
So, adding the brand name of a car maker 'adds value' to the price of a bike? What does that say about the perceived status of cars as opposed to bikes? Or do Ferrari perhaps also make a 'Colnago' badged version of one of their cars with £100,000 added onto the price?0 -
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Yes, it is a recurring theme of the political right, as with Thatcher's dream of the "great car economy".greasedscotsman wrote:People's car? Now where have I heard that before?
Problem is that in all such ideologies the bicycle, as a means of transport rather than a marketing tool or as an expensive 'lifestyle' product, comes WAY down in the hierarchy.The Nazi "road safety" programme was in fact based on the "People's Car": just as ours is based on the "Cheap Car." In practice, the People's Car scheme was a fraud, but there is no doubt that Hitler believed in it, and, in happier circumstances, would have carried it out. Cars have always had a peculiar fascination for the gangster mind. To the gangster the possession of a car has always seemed the most delightful way possible of expressing and exhibiting personal power and distinction: it is recorded that this was one of the most notable characteristics of the American gangsters in their heyday: and Hitler was no exception. A keen motorist himself he was determined that the Master Race should also be motorists: the Nazi Boss in the big car was the natural successor, to the Nietszchean Man on Horseback and all good little Nazis were to have at least a Volkswagen.
Here, then, are some of the Nazis' "road-safety" methods: fines for "careless walking," collectable on the spot; "endangering traffic" and crossing against the amber made punishable offences; special tracks for cyclists; riding with one hand on the handle bars and riding two abreast made offences. In one week in Berlin (December, 1934) 4,627 cyclists were summoned and verbally admonished or temporarily deprived of their machines.
From Murder most foul: a study of the road deaths problem by J.S. Dean (1947).0 -
Anyone got 20k euros spare. Ok then you can buy a Lamborghini bike.
And for many more bike-car collaborations:
http://italiancyclingjournal.blogspot.c ... -alfa.htmlContador is the Greatest0 -
Wow, we've found something that BB has more of an issue with than the bloke from Austin!!0
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The SS provided work for 1.2 million. It doesn't mean they were a good idea.BikingBernie wrote:
British Leyland also provided work for over a quarter of a million employees, plus tens of thousands more in automotive component manufacturing companies. McClaren Automotive employ 1500, so they are pretty much an irrelevance in the great scheme of things.frenchfighter wrote:
Precisely.BikingBernie wrote:Anyhow, what's so good about McClaren, they are hardly building "the peoples' car", are they?
And I wonder if they contribute to the UK economy via taxes or do they avoid them.
BL made crap cars that no-one really wanted at a massive loss. They were a disaster.Twitter: @RichN950 -
frenchfighter wrote:Anyone got 20k euros spare. Ok then you can buy a Lamborghini bike.
and it looks like all you get is a downtube, some brake hoods and a drive train!
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Nice attempt at 'the straw man' argument. The SS might not have been a 'good idea', but there is a lot to be said for the provision of reasonably paying, long-term domestic jobs for hundreds of thousands of people.RichN95 wrote:The SS provided work for 1.2 million. It doesn't mean they were a good idea.
You mean 'crap cars' like the Mini and the Range Rover? In reality BL sold millions of vehicles across the world and whilst the quality of many was lacking by modern standards, the same could be said of many other manufacturers at the time. Their management was sadly lacking though, a tradition carried on by the gangsters of the Phoenix consortium. (I see that after a 5-year battler former workers have been told that they are only entitled to £3 (yes, three pounds) each in redundancy, rather less than the £42 million the 'Phoenix Four' awarded themselves when running the company).RichN95 wrote:BL made crap cars that no-one really wanted at a massive loss. They were a disaster.0 -
Does anyone want to talk about F1 and cycling then?0
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Webber riding on his Ride to the Horns sportive.0 -
greasedscotsman wrote:Does anyone want to talk about F1 and cycling then?
I recon from a purely sporting perspective they're quite close - enough that I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few pro-cycling fans were also fans of F1.
Both racing, both are about maximising your relative weakness / strength positions.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:I recon from a purely sporting perspective they're quite close - enough that I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few pro-cycling fans were also fans of F1.
Both racing, both are about maximising your relative weakness / strength positions.
Think your probably right. As far as sports go, I like to watch races, such as cycling, F1 and even stuff like athletics, whereas I'm not so bothered about games, like football, rugby, etc.0 -
Michael Schumacher goes cycling with Tony Rominger (they are linked via IMG).greasedscotsman wrote:Does anyone want to talk about F1 and cycling then?
(they're probably smuggling Nazi gold)Twitter: @RichN950 -
Oh please Rick! They are totally different. One is about human endeavour and sufferance the other, hmm, money.Contador is the Greatest0
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Thing is, you see lots of F1 doing cycling, as they know how great it is and how brilliant it is for them from a fitness perspective.Contador is the Greatest0
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Oh another MAJOR difference is that the fan has ZERO hope of doing what they do in F1 whereas in cycling, you can ride the roads they do, feel the pain they do, even buy the bikes they have.Contador is the Greatest0
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greasedscotsman wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:I recon from a purely sporting perspective they're quite close - enough that I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few pro-cycling fans were also fans of F1.
Both racing, both are about maximising your relative weakness / strength positions.
Think your probably right. As far as sports go, I like to watch races, such as cycling, F1 and even stuff like athletics, whereas I'm not so bothered about games, like football, rugby, etc.
Yeah. It's a tactical and strategic race that starts from the premise that not everyone is fighting with equal speed.0 -
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Quite so, in bike racing any rider could ride the same machine as any of his competitors with near-zero effect on the outcome. What counts - or should do - is the individual's talent, guts and determination.frenchfighter wrote:Oh please Rick! They are totally different. One is about human endeavour and sufferance the other, hmm, money.
In F1 the car is everything and it is the amount of money available that determines who has the most competitive car. The F1 teams might as well all get together with the biggest pile of money they can accrue, then set fire to it with the winner being the team who has set fire to the biggest pile of cash!0 -
BikingBernie wrote:greasedscotsman wrote:Oh no, I've ruined it for everyone. I am so sorry. How about a picture of Kimi with a Colnago to try and get things back on track? Everyone likes Kimi, right?
So, adding the brand name of a car maker 'adds value' to the price of a bike? What does that say about the perceived status of cars as opposed to bikes? Or do Ferrari perhaps also make a 'Colnago' badged version of one of their cars with £100,000 added onto the price?
It says that (rightly or wrongly), Ferrari are associated with top class engineering in a way that bicycle manufacturers aren't. Personally I really couldn't give a toss about cars (I hate driving), but even I can recognise that they've got some of the world's top minds producing their vehicles.
I still wouldn't waste my money on one, though.0 -
BikingBernie wrote:The F1 teams might as well all get together with the biggest pile of money they can accrue, then set fire to it with the winner being the team who has set fire to the biggest pile of cash!
That would probably be more interesting than a whole season of F1 (bar the crashes, of course).0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:greasedscotsman wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:I recon from a purely sporting perspective they're quite close - enough that I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few pro-cycling fans were also fans of F1.
Both racing, both are about maximising your relative weakness / strength positions.
Think your probably right. As far as sports go, I like to watch races, such as cycling, F1 and even stuff like athletics, whereas I'm not so bothered about games, like football, rugby, etc.
Yeah. It's a tactical and strategic race that starts from the premise that not everyone is fighting with equal speed.
Have you beed to see a F1 race at all? I've only managed some F1 testing at Silverstone when I used to live nearby (well, sort of...) I wasn't that impressed with the speed, but the noise, fantastic!
Would love to go and see a race at Monza, Spa or Monaco.0
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