Di2

rick_chasey

Don't get me wrong - I got given a rapha top and I wear it all the time - it's the comfiest jersey I have, but I could never bring myself to part with £100 odd for a zip up top!

il_principe

Rick Chasey wrote:

It's more like those expensive holidays. You feel obliged to really Fing enjoy because you've saved up all year for it, so any slight mishap creates more tension/ was it worth it/rage.

No? Just me?

I just think expensive hols are a bit of a waste of money (as nice as they are). I'd rather spend it on something I get to own.

rick_chasey

Il Principe wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

It's more like those expensive holidays. You feel obliged to really Fing enjoy because you've saved up all year for it, so any slight mishap creates more tension/ was it worth it/rage.

No? Just me?

I just think expensive hols are a bit of a waste of money (as nice as they are). I'd rather spend it on something I get to own.

Yeah. You get the idea though, right?

il_principe

Rick Chasey wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

It's more like those expensive holidays. You feel obliged to really Fing enjoy because you've saved up all year for it, so any slight mishap creates more tension/ was it worth it/rage.

No? Just me?

I just think expensive hols are a bit of a waste of money (as nice as they are). I'd rather spend it on something I get to own.

Yeah. You get the idea though, right?

Not really I'm afraid. I didn't spend my honeymoon feeling obliged to enjoy it, I just kicked back and did. Turn your brain off fella!

stuaff

Il Principe wrote:

StuAff wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

But the Mad Fiber clinchers are stupidly light compared to their rivals. Still, best to let other people guinea pig them (that goes for full carbon clinchers in general!) Having said that, Mad Fiber offer a 4 year damage replacement policy...

Some of the deeper-section Tune wheelsets run them close, and the narrower Schwarzbrenner 25s are actually lighter (barely a kilo). Horses for courses...

Shallower rim tho, innit.

Indeed so. Definitely a toss-up between weight-saving and aero, and how much emphasis you place on each...

stuaff

Il Principe wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

It's more like those expensive holidays. You feel obliged to really Fing enjoy because you've saved up all year for it, so any slight mishap creates more tension/ was it worth it/rage.

No? Just me?

I just think expensive hols are a bit of a waste of money (as nice as they are). I'd rather spend it on something I get to own.

+1. I am actually going on a holiday this year for once. Cycling holiday of course

okgo

I'll probably stick di2 on my race-bike in a couple of months when I've scraped a grand together. Why not? Seems to get good reviews, takes a lot of the hassle out of tuning etc, and it will last for years on a bike not used ALL the time.

As for being scared you're going to knock it, I think its no different from riding on £1000 wheels, or a £1000 frame which I didn't have any qualms doing in a race situation (much more likely to smash something in a race than any other kind of riding imo)

DonDaddyD

Il Principe wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I don't spend that much on cycling since - in my experience - I don't feel I get a big benefit/increase in the pleasure experience with a lot of expensive kit. I love my current bike and it's £350 > I'm sure I'd love it less if I'd spend a lot since I'd be demanding more pleasure for the cost, rightly or wrongly.

Ooh I dunno. I don't know anyone that's upgraded a bike and loved cycling less. You think too much!

This, I've made the transition from spending money drinks, clubbing and computer games to forking on the bike and household stuff (Hifi, PC, TV, - one hit costs. Comics and bikes - ongoing costs). Upgrades of any item that you love are normally met with more enjoyment no matter how subjective or subliminal.

aeon

i walked past some of those Mad Clinchers last week and they moved. as in the atmospheric disturbance of me walking past them was enough to move them on the racks. crazy talk.

FoldingJoe wrote:

Yep, I think I might pull the trigger on the Ultimate AL with Di2 before the end of the year, or as soon as I get a divorce, whichever happens first!!

i'm fairly sure if you go ahead with one the other will follow

veronese68

Rick Chasey wrote:

Me = worrier+cheap-skate (I blame my Dutch roots for the 2nd).

BLOODY HELL!!! I'm a Dutchman. I always thought I was Italian/English.

suzyb

Rick Chasey wrote:

CiB wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I love my current bike and it's £350 > I'm sure I'd love it less if I'd spend a lot since I'd be demanding more pleasure for the cost, rightly or wrongly.

And the obvious point here is that you would get that pleasure. Nice bikes are the dogs bits. You can't help but enjoy being on one, and that's not the case for the other end of the market. I know - I have one from the <<< end of the scale. Brrrugggh.

It's more like those expensive holidays. You feel obliged to really Fing enjoy because you've saved up all year for it, so any slight mishap creates more tension/ was it worth it/rage.

No? Just me?

Not just you. Maybe not with regards to holidays, not been on one in years but with every expensive purchase. I need to justify it to myself.

I have to say I don't really see how just having a nice bike can make riding it more pleasureable. If you have a less expensive bike that works well (not meaning a BSO) then how can a more expensive bike be more enjoyable simply because it is more expensive.

With finding motivation difficult to come by and now not seeing how bling can make you happy I'm beginning to think I'm not really a cyclist

CiB

suzyb wrote:

I have to say I don't really see how just having a nice bike can make riding it more pleasureable. If you have a less expensive bike that works well (not meaning a BSO) then how can a more expensive bike be more enjoyable simply because it is more expensive.

Because as a rule of thumb, things that cost more tend to be better made, or work better, or just look nicer. It's not that something costs more that makes it better, it's usually that it is better and as a consequence costs more.

As MRS and others have pointed out, this electric gears thing is better whichever way you look at it. You'd have to be a pretty cynical character to have a proper go with it and then denounce it as pointless. Pricey maybe, but that's about the only drawback I can see to it and over time that will reduce. It already is - prices are dropping rapidly for the Ui2 kit.

spasypaddy

better bikes just ride better. im very lucky to ride a top of the range frame and mechanical groupset (wheels to come) and the difference between that and my winter commuter bike is insane. until you ride a substantially better bike you just cant fathom how much better they are.

yes the gains get smaller from a certain point but there are still gains to be had.

suzyb

I'm still not sure how something working well can make using it more pleasurable. Something not working well makes it frustrating to use it but it working well making it more pleasureable.

I think I may need to get a new bike to see if I can understand

meanredspider

suzyb wrote:

I'm still not sure how something working well can make using it more pleasurable. Something not working well makes it frustrating to use it but it working well making it more pleasureable.

I think I may need to get a new bike to see if I can understand

It's that the the higher quality thing works better than the lower quality thing. Doesn't mean that the lower quality thing is poor, just not as nice to use. Think of a knife: if it starts sharp and stays sharp it's nicer to use than a knife that has less of a good edge. It might still cuts things just not as well. Same with a bike - brakes work better, gear changes are sweeter, lighter, stiffer, more comfortable etc - that's just a nicer experience.

roger_merriman

meanredspider wrote:

suzyb wrote:

I'm still not sure how something working well can make using it more pleasurable. Something not working well makes it frustrating to use it but it working well making it more pleasureable.

I think I may need to get a new bike to see if I can understand

It's that the the higher quality thing works better than the lower quality thing. Doesn't mean that the lower quality thing is poor, just not as nice to use. Think of a knife: if it starts sharp and stays sharp it's nicer to use than a knife that has less of a good edge. It might still cuts things just not as well. Same with a bike - brakes work better, gear changes are sweeter, lighter, stiffer, more comfortable etc - that's just a nicer experience.

Diminishing returns.

this said I can see the point for Di2 etc, i've riden around leafy surry hills with enought folks with gears that where not quite right.

and frankly derailers are royal pain, so I can see the attraction though i'd not be buying work in progress, which they are, any one not think they will not be very different in a few year time?

CiB

An observation, based on its first outing in anger as opposed to the regularity of the commute.

It's a bit too easy to misjudge a gear change. MRS hinted at it earlier when he said that it involved almost relearning which side does what. Maybe his readjustment process differs from mine, but there's certainly one there.

The switches are housed inside the arc of the brake lever. For up shifts to a smaller cog, or to the small ring, the same lever that exists on STI levers activates that change, albeit electrically. But: instead of using the whole brake lever to change down (or up onto the dinner plate) there's an area on the side of the lever that activates the change, and it's right next to the other lever. It should be easy, it is and most of the time it's not a problem. I had so many occasions yesterday though on Secret Sam's 75 miler where I kept hitting the wrong bit and going up instead of down the gears, usually in places like DDD described - haring down a hill at some pace into a sudden climb with the need to quickly drop down the cogs as the momentum drops away.

I reckon it's because for years up-changes have used the whole lever and down changes use <not the whole lever> so there's no thought process. Either shove the whole lever inwards, or push the rest of it. With this shenanigans it's necessary to think about it momentarily, by which time the hands have gone onto auto-pilot and done the change anyway and got it wrong.

Hopefully it's a short-term learning curve where the failing grey matter doesn't have to think about something that's been pretty much muscle memory territory for years.

Still love the things though.

meanredspider

Yup - sounds a bit like my relearning, CiB. I'm successfully through it and now rarely make a "mis-shift" (going in the wrong direction) - at least only the same or less frequency than with regular shifters.

As I wrote in the "Pre-fettling" thread, I finally got around to recharging my battery for the first time as it had reached the 50% remaining warning. About 550 miles and 33 hours so I think a safe estimate of 1000 miles is fair for full-to-empty.

notsoblue

rjsterry wrote:

Won't be investing any time soon. My 15 year old Shimano RSX shifters manage "first time, every time" and cope with even my cack-handed mis-timed changing. Seriously, how badly do people normally have their shifters set up? I've dropped my chain 3 times in the last ... well as far back as I can remember, and that was due to a new chain ring with a slightly different offset. I can see that it's very nice if you've go the cash, but on a budget, there's just no point.

<awaits accusations of Ludditism (?)>

I was thinking this too. I'm running SRAM Red on my Alpha bike and it shifts perfectly. Doubletap/Zeroloss is the mutt's nuts. In the 18 months I've had the bike I haven't had to adjust anything and I can't remember the last time I had a shifting error. If there has ever been a degradation of gear changing performance it has been due to a mucky chain.

Having said that though, I'd be seriously interested if SRAM were to release electronic shifters. Just because of the tech-geekiness of it. Its nice to have gadgets. I don't think theres a problem that needs to be solved by them though.

sketchley

CiB wrote:

I reckon it's because for years up-changes have used the whole lever and down changes use <not the whole lever> so there's no thought process. Either shove the whole lever inwards, or push the rest of it. With this shenanigans it's necessary to think about it momentarily, by which time the hands have gone onto auto-pilot and done the change anyway and got it wrong.

.

I thought you could hold the button in and change down or up several gears at time? Or was that the stuff I was reading about on the campag electronic groupset?

DonDaddyD

CIB,

Personally I think it/you're awesome for not only having Di2 but commuting on it. That to the urban man, in it's lowest common denominator, is up there with Puff Daddy (as he was called in my day) filling a swimming pool with Cristal.

You are one blinged up gangsta dude. - That's a complement.

Chapeau

CiB

DonDaddyD wrote:

CIB,

Personally I think it/you're awesome for not only having Di2 but commuting on it. That to the urban man, in it's lowest common denominator, is up there with Puff Daddy (as he was called in my day) filling a swimming pool with Cristal.

You are one blinged up gangsta dude. - That's a complement.

Chapeau

Bling? Grey mechs replacing slightly differently grey mechs, with wires in the same places that cables once went? Except for the tell-tale whirr that accompanies gear changes most people would be hard-pushed to spot it I reckon. Still a hat's a hat, so err takes it at face value cheers for that.

My view though is why wouldn't you? For the price of a cheap old banger that might scrape through a couple more MOTs you end up with state of the art toys. Rude not to really, surely?

sketchley

Sketchley wrote:

CiB wrote:

I reckon it's because for years up-changes have used the whole lever and down changes use <not the whole lever> so there's no thought process. Either shove the whole lever inwards, or push the rest of it. With this shenanigans it's necessary to think about it momentarily, by which time the hands have gone onto auto-pilot and done the change anyway and got it wrong.

.

I thought you could hold the button in and change down or up several gears at time? Or was that the stuff I was reading about on the campag electronic groupset?

Just looked it up it's the Campag one not Di2....

il_principe

Sketchley wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

CiB wrote:

I reckon it's because for years up-changes have used the whole lever and down changes use <not the whole lever> so there's no thought process. Either shove the whole lever inwards, or push the rest of it. With this shenanigans it's necessary to think about it momentarily, by which time the hands have gone onto auto-pilot and done the change anyway and got it wrong.

.

I thought you could hold the button in and change down or up several gears at time? Or was that the stuff I was reading about on the campag electronic groupset?

Just looked it up it's the Campag one not Di2....

Of course it is. Campagnolo FTW.

cyclingprop

Il Principe wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

I thought you could hold the button in and change down or up several gears at time? Or was that the stuff I was reading about on the campag electronic groupset?

Just looked it up it's the Campag one not Di2....

Stating the obvious. FTW.

FTFY.

sketchley

Anyone else noticed this?

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/s ... res-33229/

Gives me an idea for a titanium, disk brake, belt drive, Di2 11 Speed Alfine bike!

rjsterry

Sketchley wrote:

Anyone else noticed this?

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/s ... res-33229/

Gives me an idea for a titanium, disk brake, belt drive, Di2 11 Speed Alfine bike!

Pfft. Sticking a pair of drop bars on a hybrid doesn't make it a road bike.

DonDaddyD

Will those in the pro peloton be using Di2 or EPS?

rick_chasey

DonDaddyD wrote:

Will those in the pro peloton be using Di2 or EPS?

Both.

Pro's often test out kit you later see in shops.

jonginge

Apparently there have been a few rumoured sights of Shimano 11spd gruppos in the pro peloton lately ...