The Six Nations thread.

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  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,682
    meanredspider wrote:
    Irish pack being anialated - painful to watch (as an ex-front row forward)

    As an english one it's quite fun ;) Brian Moore and Keith Wood should commentate on every game!

    Tell you what i'd have taken a second place finish behind a grand slam at the start of the tournament. Not bad for a bunch of kids! Please RFU Let Lancaster stay now, make it the one sensible decision you make this decade!
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • meanredspider
    meanredspider Posts: 12,337
    ddraver wrote:
    meanredspider wrote:
    Irish pack being anialated - painful to watch (as an ex-front row forward)

    As an english one it's quite fun ;) Brian Moore and Keith Wood should commentate on every game!

    Tell you what i'd have taken a second place finish behind a grand slam at the start of the tournament. Not bad for a bunch of kids! Please RFU Let Lancaster stay now, make it the one sensible decision you make this decade!

    I'm English too - just must be really grim scrumming down as an Irish front rower against that English pack. I was very happy to see how dominant England were (who won the wooden spoon? :wink::wink: Monday will be fun)
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  • suzyb
    suzyb Posts: 3,449
    At least we "won" something, the Italians, Irish and French all came out of the tournament with nothing except some points.

    We should stick to a sport we're good at. You know like...er...ummm, hold on I'll think of one in a minute...
    Whippet
  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    ddraver wrote:
    meanredspider wrote:
    Irish pack being anialated - painful to watch (as an ex-front row forward)

    As an english one it's quite fun ;) Brian Moore and Keith Wood should commentate on every game!

    Tell you what i'd have taken a second place finish behind a grand slam at the start of the tournament. Not bad for a bunch of kids! Please RFU Let Lancaster stay now, make it the one sensible decision you make this decade!

    Agreed on where we ended up. Thought we showed a lot of promise too. There are some potentially very good players on that team. As they said pre match (when talking about which English players might make a Lions XV), the team plays better than the sum of its players.

    That said, am I the only person who thinks Manu is one dimensional? We just got rid of Tindall, and now we have his long lost Polynesian offspring in his place.
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  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    Greg66 wrote:
    Agreed on where we ended up. Thought we showed a lot of promise too. There are some potentially very good players on that team. As they said pre match (when talking about which English players might make a Lions XV), the team plays better than the sum of its players.

    Brilliant result for England. I missed the build-up, though. Who did they say would be on the Lions' tour?
    That said, am I the only person who thinks Manu is one dimensional? We just got rid of Tindall, and now we have his long lost Polynesian offspring in his place.

    With the exception of Farrell, I think the backs are a bit dull. Croft's a more exciting runner!
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    cjcp wrote:
    Greg66 wrote:
    Agreed on where we ended up. Thought we showed a lot of promise too. There are some potentially very good players on that team. As they said pre match (when talking about which English players might make a Lions XV), the team plays better than the sum of its players.

    Brilliant result for England. I missed the build-up, though. Who did they say would be on the Lions' tour?

    Basically, no one English.
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  • benno68
    benno68 Posts: 1,689
    PeteMadoc wrote:
    Great game!

    Wife's now gone out on the wee-wee. Something wrong there

    Not on your own mate, Mrs Benno has also gone out on the pop tonight. Some peace and quiet for me this evening and a clear head tomorrow for nice bike ride!
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  • clarkey cat
    clarkey cat Posts: 3,641
    despite winning 4 out of 5 games - and only narrowly losing to the "Best Welsh Team Ever"(TM) - we only had one player nominated man of the match. Staggering.

    Well done Wales. A deserved Grand Slam - a very good team and they are only going to get better. I reckon you might even be in with a chance of getting a victory over a SH team this year too.
    Dolan Mythos
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    Benno68 wrote:
    PeteMadoc wrote:
    Great game!

    Wife's now gone out on the wee-wee. Something wrong there

    Not on your own mate, Mrs Benno has also gone out on the pop tonight. Some peace and quiet for me this evening and a clear head tomorrow for nice bike ride!

    Same here. And I had a ticket to the game too, but it was a friend's birthday.

    Not gutted at all. Not one bit. I'm just dandy.

    @cc - yep, we had a good shout at winning the Oz match in December, but a victory in Oz is not beyond the realms of possibility.

    Enjoyed the build-up to this game. Lots of footage of a side-stepping and jinking Phil Bennett.

    Croft has to go on the Lions tour, as well and Farrell and Morgan. Foden? In all seriousness, the English backs ain't great. Ashton needs to regain his form.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    cjcp wrote:
    Benno68 wrote:
    PeteMadoc wrote:
    Great game!

    Wife's now gone out on the wee-wee. Something wrong there

    Not on your own mate, Mrs Benno has also gone out on the pop tonight. Some peace and quiet for me this evening and a clear head tomorrow for nice bike ride!

    Same here. And I had a ticket to the game too, but it was a friend's birthday.

    Not gutted at all. Not one bit. I'm just dandy.

    @cc - yep, we had a good shout at winning the Oz match in December, but a victory in Oz is not beyond the realms of possibility.

    Enjoyed the build-up to this game. Lots of footage of a side-stepping and jinking Phil Bennett.

    Croft has to go on the Lions tour, as well and Farrell and Morgan. Foden? In all seriousness, the English backs ain't great. Ashton needs to regain his form.

    Thing is, once you rule out all of the England backs, the Scots are all staying at home too (though that's on merit, natch). Phillips is the obvious first choice pick at 9. Although I rate him, I wish his delivery was quicker. He has a very bad habit of bringing the ball into his body before passing, and/or taking 2-4 steps towards the receiver before passing.

    Wales, Ireland and England all have good 10s, but I'm not really sure any of the three are yet world class. A Lions tour might be the thing that turns one of them from a good international player to a world class one though. Whichever one gets left behind will fell justifiably cheesed off.

    There are some hard decisions in selecting only two players in each of the back row positions.

    12 and 13 come from Wales, I think. BOD's fitness is up in the air. Barritt I think is too green. Tiulagi will go, but shouldn't be let near the test side.

    North picks himself, and Ashton does the reverse (whatever the expression for that is). Good as the rest are, I don't see a stand out electrifying wing (eg Fofana). Whereas at 15, I'd be happy with any two from 1/2penny, Kearney or Foden. Perhaps take all three and use one as wing cover.

    Apart from Gray, is there a Scot with a decent chance of getting in the squad?
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  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,682
    cjcp wrote:
    Foden?

    Foden is one of the must underrated players in the whole tournament. I have nt seen him make a mistake for years. Every catch is taken, every last man/try saving tackle is made...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • vitesse169
    vitesse169 Posts: 422
    The only other Scot worth a look is Denton...
    I'm sooooooo glad Ben Morgan has signed for Glos for the new season - a VERY well deserved MOTM yesterday. I must say, I did think it would be a much closer game than turned out.... similar to the U20's on Friday night, there is strength and depth in the next 5+ years of English rugby...
  • benno68
    benno68 Posts: 1,689
    @ Greg66 - I was relieved when Phillips came off on Saturday, like you say he was very slow and heaped extra pressure on our pack who had to protect the ball for far too long at the breakdown. Lloyd Williams and Tavis Knoyle are promising scrum halfs but lack experience at the moment for the Lions in such a crucial position - if Phillips goes he'll have to sort his game out.

    How about a shout for Cuthbert on the wing?

    CJ - how bloody inconsiderate of you friend to have a birthday bash on such an important rugby day :)
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  • walkingbootweather
    walkingbootweather Posts: 2,443
    vitesse169 wrote:
    The only other Scot worth a look is Denton...
    Has he stopped worrying the deer in Richmond Park?
    Nobody told me we had a communication problem
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,682
    walkingbootweather wrote:
    vitesse169 wrote:
    The only other Scot worth a look is Denton...
    Has he stopped worrying the deer in Richmond Park?

    Hee hee

    Fair point about the guy though, he was storming in the Scotland games I watched (although usually I had one eye of the cycling...)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • bg13
    bg13 Posts: 4,598
    http://www.irb.com/rankings/full.html

    worth a look!
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  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    bg13 wrote:
    http://www.irb.com/rankings/full.html

    worth a look!

    Shows how useless these rankings are.

    Following the respective results at the World Cup and the Six Nations, how can England be above Wales?
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • clarkey cat
    clarkey cat Posts: 3,641
    daviesee - because you only can go higher up the rankings when you beat teams higher than you.

    Wales, in the WC only beat Samoa and Ireland. They lost to every team that were ranked above them - France, SA and Australia. Wales' WC only looked good because Ireland beat Aus.

    In the 6N they beat England, but at the time they beat England, England were ranked below them (in 6th IIRC).
    England then beat France (who were 4th IIRC) and jumped to 4th themselves. So when Wales (at 5th) beat France on the final day, France were 6th - again, Wales didnt beat a team ranked ahead of them.

    I can't actually remember a time when Wales last beat a team ranked above them.
    Dolan Mythos
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    That just shows that the system is flawed.

    It would take a blinkered fan to claim that the current England team is better than the current Wales team.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    daviesee wrote:
    That just shows that the system is flawed.

    It would take a blinkered fan to claim that the current England team is better than the current Wales team.

    Isn't it basically a squash ladder?

    It seems bizarre that if Scotland were able to secure a win over England, or repeat a win over SA, they would catapult themselves 8 or 9 places.
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  • clarkey cat
    clarkey cat Posts: 3,641
    It would take a blinkered fan to claim that the current England team is better than the current Wales team.

    The ladders just represents the results. If Wales and England played tomorrow then Wales would win I think - but England have had better results against better teams over the years, hence their higher position.
    It seems bizarre that if Scotland were able to secure a win over England, or repeat a win over SA, they would catapult themselves 8 or 9 places.

    They wouldn't swap places with SA. They'd get a number of points added (and SA deducted) depending on their comparative positions and whether the win (or loss) was > or < 15 point margin.

    The reason England 'swapped' places with France after their narrow win was more to do with the fact that there is, in the stats, very little separating England, France and Wales. So the narrow gains they made for the win was enough to take them up 2 places.

    Wales are a very good team, but in order to go up the rankings they need to beat teams that are ranked ahead of them - which they dont tend to do very well.
    Dolan Mythos
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    clarkey cat wrote:
    Wales' WC only looked good because Ireland beat Aus.

    And because Ireland were good. And because of the performance against SA. And because they got to the SF of the WC and came within a whisker of the Final even though they had 14 men.

    I'm biased obviously, and you're English, which automatically means you're wrong, but it was a good WC for a number of reasons, and which recent form has suggested it wasn't a flash-in-the-pan (I hope, anyway...).

    Next thing you know, someone on here will be saying that Shane Williams wasn't a world class wing - here, fishy, fishy :P
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • clarkey cat
    clarkey cat Posts: 3,641
    well funny you say that... only kidding. Shane was as awesome player and an absolute gent to boot. Like a small Chris Ashton.

    No denying that Wales had a good WC. Lots of excitement been building around this squad for a while and this 6N showed their quality. Don't think its the Second Coming [of the mythologised 70s team] just yet but they are young and are only going to get better.

    I know what you mean about a great performance against SA... and coming within a whisker of France etc. etc. but to be honest, you're just making my point. Wales have historically been very good at moral victories against better teams but not that good at actual ones. I hope that changes, and one day I hope Wales are ranked No.2 in the IRB World Rankings.
    Dolan Mythos
  • Paulie W
    Paulie W Posts: 1,492
    clarkey cat wrote:
    well funny you say that... only kidding. Shane was as awesome player and an absolute gent to boot. Like a small Chris Ashton.

    Now that's damning with very faint praise!!
  • clarkey cat
    clarkey cat Posts: 3,641
    obviously little Shane can't hold a candle to my favourite winger (and centre, and fullback, and scrummy and fly-half) of all time.

    article-1092648-02B9ADC8000005DC-814_468x483.jpg
    Dolan Mythos
  • walkingbootweather
    walkingbootweather Posts: 2,443
    clarkey cat wrote:
    obviously little Shane can't hold a candle to my favourite winger (and centre, and fullback, and scrummy and fly-half) of all time.

    article-1092648-02B9ADC8000005DC-814_468x483.jpg

    She looks more like a hooker to me :wink:
    Nobody told me we had a communication problem
  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    edited March 2012
    clarkey cat wrote:
    well funny you say that... only kidding. Shane was as awesome player

    Did someone say "come here, fishy"?

    Ab-so-lutely. Never more awesome than against a soft defence.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpdTkx67-U4

    I didn't have the time to watch all of this, but there looked to be a couple of tries against national sides in there. Amongst the club rugby...

    There are three or four from about 3.40 onwards in which the defences can at best be described as "cosseting". Then are the ones where he has to run at some empty space. And ones where the defenders fall over before he gets near them, no doubt due to some paegan magicks being depolyed... :twisted: :mrgreen: :twisted: :mrgreen: :twisted:
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  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    clarkey cat wrote:
    but to be honest, you're just making my point.

    Nice try :wink: , but you said they said they looked good, when my point was that they were good on the basis of their performances.

    Definitely ain't the Second Coming because this particular team would need to win three GSs before they reach the heights of the 1970s. That's a big ask.

    I liked Healy.

    But not that much. :lol:
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    Greg66 wrote:
    clarkey cat wrote:
    well funny you say that... only kidding. Shane was as awesome player

    Did someone say "come here, fishy"?

    Ab-so-lutely. Never more awesome than against a soft defence.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpdTkx67-U4

    I didn't have the time to watch all of this, but there looked to be a couple of tries against national sides in there. Amongst the club rugby...

    There are three or four from about 3.40 onwards in which the defences can at best be described as "cosseting". Then are the ones where he has to run at some empty space. And ones where the defenders fall over before he gets near them, no doubt due to some paegan magicks being depolyed... :twisted: :mrgreen: :twisted: :mrgreen: :twisted:

    And so the heathen surfaces...

    Kennett.jpg
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    edited March 2012
    cjcp wrote:
    Greg66 wrote:
    clarkey cat wrote:
    well funny you say that... only kidding. Shane was as awesome player

    Did someone say "come here, fishy"?

    Ab-so-lutely. Never more awesome than against a soft defence.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpdTkx67-U4

    I didn't have the time to watch all of this, but there looked to be a couple of tries against national sides in there. Amongst the club rugby...

    There are three or four from about 3.40 onwards in which the defences can at best be described as "cosseting". Then are the ones where he has to run at some empty space. And ones where the defenders fall over before he gets near them, no doubt due to some paegan magicks being depolyed... :twisted: :mrgreen: :twisted: :mrgreen: :twisted:

    And so the heathen surfaces...

    Kennett.jpg

    Trouble is, Williams played at the same time as Billy Whizz. Ergo solid number 2 spot for Shane... :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

    ETA: Check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK0JnnAKNH4

    Some of the footage is a bit low def, but HTF he gets through some of those gaps is beyond me. Sometimes it looks like he's speeded up but no one else is.
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