Doesn't help the Tri-athlete cause
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Ai_1 wrote:
How do you know these were your only 2 experiences riding with triathletes? You've probably ridden with plenty other triathletes but didn't realise it because they were competent cyclists. Triathletes won't usually wear tri gear when they're riding their road bike and not combining it with a swim or run. They'll just wear normal cycling gear. As for the two you mentioned. If they turned up for a group ride with tri bars then clearly they have little or no group riding experience. Any beginner to group riding with fitness from cycling or other sports is likely to make the pacing and positioning mistakes you mention on their first time out. It's not a triathlete thing.Rick Chasey wrote:Bo Duke wrote:I've been doing Olympic Distance triathlons for nearly 4 years and often wonder why cyclists get so defensive. Triathletes don't scoff at a cyclists inability to swim fast over long distances or get straight off their bike after 90 or 180k and run either a half or full marathon.... so what's your excuse?
I would also point out that amongst other beautiful women triathletes, I have been fortunate to meet two literally stunning ladies both of whom stopped me in my tracks. :oops: Don't recall seeing the same calibre of cyclist I must admit.
My only two experiences with riding with triathletes has gone like this:
- turns up to club run boasting about iron man / average speeds and moans when they're told not to use tri bars in the group
- spends majority of the run leaving gaps in the group before accelerating into them, overshoooting and therefore overlapping, before squeezing the brakes.
- takes a turn on the front and immediately goes so quick he ends up on his own
- crashes into the verge/normal t-junction
So that might be why. But I imagine that's just my bad luck, and it's a small sample size.
But basically my view is they're often very strong cyclists but usually with poor handling. Makes sense - they're usually fitter and train harder than most guys at the club but haven't been riding for all that long.
Ah it's just a bit of fun
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Of course trathlon has one big advantage over cycle road races. It's not segregated so you get to share the course with her!
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This one is hilariuous, seen a few like that on the l2b I did for laugh last year, best fun day ut in ages lolfrenchfighter wrote:
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Are we laughing at the helmet, or the socks? Or the arm warmers with a vest?
I've seen both ends of the spectrum, one lad from our club, lovely guy is riding an ironman, has impeccable road manners in a group and kicks ass at TTs, on the other hand I've seen a triathlete ride straight in to a bush on a group ride (Not from our club)
'Tis but a bit of fun all the jesting.0 -
He does look a little silly but there are obvious explanations for all 3 things you've listed.Paul 8v wrote:Are we laughing at the helmet, or the socks? Or the arm warmers with a vest?
I've seen both ends of the spectrum, one lad from our club, lovely guy is riding an ironman, has impeccable road manners in a group and kicks ass at TTs, on the other hand I've seen a triathlete ride straight in to a bush on a group ride (Not from our club)
'Tis but a bit of fun all the jesting.
1. Helmet - he obviously screwed up as he rushed through transition and slapped it on backwards. Once you've touched your bike you're generally not allowed remove your helmet or you may be penalised/disqualified.
2. Socks - they yellow things are not his socks, they're calf guards. Compression sleeves for calves. A lot of triathletes use them. I've used them for long runs and I find them good. They do no harm on the bike bit they're intended mostly for the run.
3. Arm warmers with a vest - Tri suits and singlets don't have sleeves because they bunch up in a wetsu
it and cause binding/chafing while swimming. If you need more warmth on the bike and run then arm warmers are a good solution. They leave your shoulders unrestricted but still keep the rest of your arms protected.
Looks silly when you don't know the reasons but these guys are rarely idiots and rarely too bothered about appearances. They usually use what works.0 -
Ai_1 wrote:Looks silly when you don't know the reasons but these guys are rarely idiots and rarely too bothered about appearances. They usually use what works.
Got to disagree. Triathletes will use what they are told will work. They will buy anything that someone(advertisers) has said they must have. They buy it all in the hope that it works and yet they are still "pack fill". :roll: My opinion of triathlons - They are great for people who don't want spectators to have a clue about their position in the race. To them it's all about I finished or "did" this or that race. Very few of them are anything remotely related to competitive. It's like they participant in a race and yet are satisfied with simply finishing or "doing" this or that race. Being competitive doesn't enter their minds.0 -
Yes I'm sure there are some who buy stuff that's marketed at them as with many sports. I would say cycling is just as bad in this respect.dennisn wrote:Ai_1 wrote:Looks silly when you don't know the reasons but these guys are rarely idiots and rarely too bothered about appearances. They usually use what works.
Got to disagree. Triathletes will use what they are told will work. They will buy anything that someone(advertisers) has said they must have. They buy it all in the hope that it works and yet they are still "pack fill". :roll: My opinion of triathlons - They are great for people who don't want spectators to have a clue about their position in the race. To them it's all about I finished or "did" this or that race. Very few of them are anything remotely related to competitive. It's like they participant in a race and yet are satisfied with simply finishing or "doing" this or that race. Being competitive doesn't enter their minds.
As for the competition aspect... what a load of bull!
It's a race but as with most races there are only ever a few people in with a shot at winning. Most others are racing against the rest of their age-group or against their own PB as is the case in all other endurance sports. Cycling is a little unusual in this regard since the ability to draft means the field tends to stick together more. What's different between triathlon and running or swimming.... Answer: Nothing much.
Earlier in the thread people were criticising triathletes for being obsessed with split times. Now they're not competitive enough. It's very obvious to me that this is all rooted in a desire to denigrate another sport. It's a search for things to criticise and nothing much to do with real issues. The language and phrasing is just as revealing as the ridiculous accusations. Full of snide insinuations. It's pathetic and you should be ashamed of peddling this crap.
Tell me. Do you think anyone who decided to have a similar go at cycling would have any difficulty coming up with similar garbage. Of course not. There's plenty ammunition around.
I love cycling but I'm not so blind as to think it or it's adherents are singularly superior to other sports like triathlon, running, swimming, cross country skiing, kayak racing, etc, etc.
If you think otherwise I would say that just shows a stunning lack of imagination and awareness of your own ignorance.0 -
dennisn wrote:Ai_1 wrote:Looks silly when you don't know the reasons but these guys are rarely idiots and rarely too bothered about appearances. They usually use what works.
Got to disagree. Triathletes will use what they are told will work. They will buy anything that someone(advertisers) has said they must have. They buy it all in the hope that it works and yet they are still "pack fill". :roll: My opinion of triathlons - They are great for people who don't want spectators to have a clue about their position in the race. To them it's all about I finished or "did" this or that race. Very few of them are anything remotely related to competitive. It's like they participant in a race and yet are satisfied with simply finishing or "doing" this or that race. Being competitive doesn't enter their minds.
What you have just described is a Sportive rider.
I am both a triathlete and a sportive rider. As a 41 year old there is no point in me entering bike races cos I know I'll be blown out the pack on the first climb. However with triathlon (and time trials) I compete against my previous self.
At first it was a case of can I even do a triathlon. Now... Many longer races and sportives fill that void, Can I train enough to do an Ironman? Can I do a hilly Ironman with a cold Welsh sea swim? Can I do the Glandon, Telegraph, Galibier and Alpe in 1 day?
Every sport is filled with the likes of me.
Can I run/jog/walk 26 miles?
Can I go round the Old Course in under 80 shots?
Can I swim the 2 miles of Windermere?
Can I ski down the Lauberhorn or cycle down the world cup run at Nevis Range?
Can I play football at Wembley, rugby at Twickenham? Well actually for those last two NO you cannot.
I'm not a racer, but I am fitter than most 40+ Scots and lucky enough to have train alongside two former World Champions and two young Commonwealth Games triathletes.0 -
In fairness, even my old nan's fitter than a 40 yr old Scot.0
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dennisn wrote:Ai_1 wrote:Looks silly when you don't know the reasons but these guys are rarely idiots and rarely too bothered about appearances. They usually use what works.
Got to disagree. Triathletes will use what they are told will work. They will buy anything that someone(advertisers) has said they must have. They buy it all in the hope that it works and yet they are still "pack fill". :roll: My opinion of triathlons - They are great for people who don't want spectators to have a clue about their position in the race. To them it's all about I finished or "did" this or that race. Very few of them are anything remotely related to competitive. It's like they participant in a race and yet are satisfied with simply finishing or "doing" this or that race. Being competitive doesn't enter their minds.
I can accept all the "banter" around dress sense, or lack there of, bike skills and whatever else however to say "being competitive doesn't enter their minds" is just wrong. As Ali said there are different age groups to compete in and age group world championships in Olympic, half and Ironman distances. There is plenty of competition going on in all those events. Even if you were to look at a simple sprint distance there's still competition whether that be for someone to complete their first event or to beat the guy at work, beat themselves or win/place in the race. Of course, for a huge number of people entering these events it is no different to the large numbers of "cyclists" on Strava, doing sportives, the etape and the marmotte in all their sartorial inelegance..0 -
Ai_1 wrote:
He does look a little silly but there are obvious explanations for all 3 things you've listed.Paul 8v wrote:Are we laughing at the helmet, or the socks? Or the arm warmers with a vest?
I've seen both ends of the spectrum, one lad from our club, lovely guy is riding an ironman, has impeccable road manners in a group and kicks ass at TTs, on the other hand I've seen a triathlete ride straight in to a bush on a group ride (Not from our club)
'Tis but a bit of fun all the jesting.
1. Helmet - he obviously screwed up as he rushed through transition and slapped it on backwards. Once you've touched your bike you're generally not allowed remove your helmet or you may be penalised/disqualified.
2. Socks - they yellow things are not his socks, they're calf guards. Compression sleeves for calves. A lot of triathletes use them. I've used them for long runs and I find them good. They do no harm on the bike bit they're intended mostly for the run.
3. Arm warmers with a vest - Tri suits and singlets don't have sleeves because they bunch up in a wetsu
it and cause binding/chafing while swimming. If you need more warmth on the bike and run then arm warmers are a good solution. They leave your shoulders unrestricted but still keep the rest of your arms protected.
Looks silly when you don't know the reasons but these guys are rarely idiots and rarely too bothered about appearances. They usually use what works.
Jeeze this is a guy to take on a comedy night :roll:'Do not compare your bike to others, for always there will be greater and lesser bikes'0 -
He does look like one of the rare idiots...Ai_1 wrote:
He does look a little silly but there are obvious explanations for all 3 things you've listed.Paul 8v wrote:Are we laughing at the helmet, or the socks? Or the arm warmers with a vest?
I've seen both ends of the spectrum, one lad from our club, lovely guy is riding an ironman, has impeccable road manners in a group and kicks ass at TTs, on the other hand I've seen a triathlete ride straight in to a bush on a group ride (Not from our club)
'Tis but a bit of fun all the jesting.
1. Helmet - he obviously screwed up as he rushed through transition and slapped it on backwards. Once you've touched your bike you're generally not allowed remove your helmet or you may be penalised/disqualified.
2. Socks - they yellow things are not his socks, they're calf guards. Compression sleeves for calves. A lot of triathletes use them. I've used them for long runs and I find them good. They do no harm on the bike bit they're intended mostly for the run.
3. Arm warmers with a vest - Tri suits and singlets don't have sleeves because they bunch up in a wetsu
it and cause binding/chafing while swimming. If you need more warmth on the bike and run then arm warmers are a good solution. They leave your shoulders unrestricted but still keep the rest of your arms protected.
Looks silly when you don't know the reasons but these guys are rarely idiots and rarely too bothered about appearances. They usually use what works.
I'm afraid there is a point where you have to say "Sorry, I'm not wearing that, I'll look like a bell' "0 -
Ai_1 wrote:
As for the competition aspect... what a load of bull!
I don't buy it. I'm at various bike races on a weekly basis and find that the competition is always intense. Especially at crits where you risk being pulled out if you're lapped.
With triathletes the mindset seems to be more of having something to brag about. i.e. "I did the Ironman" "I did this or that race" "It's an Ironman qualifier" "I'm going to do this or that race". There are a few who can win, place, and show in tri's. The rest are people who have no clue to their position in the race and plod along in order to simply "finish" and then go tell all their friends boring stories of split times and mention the word Ironman at least a half dozen times. Very few people are interested in knowing the splits of the winners, let alone someone who placed 250th in a local tri. Add to that, hearing Ironman bandied about as if it's some magical event is just plain wrong and tiring to listen to. :roll:0 -
Contador is the Greatest0 -
dennisn wrote:Ai_1 wrote:
As for the competition aspect... what a load of bull!
I don't buy it. I'm at various bike races on a weekly basis and find that the competition is always intense. Especially at crits where you risk being pulled out if you're lapped.
With triathletes the mindset seems to be more of having something to brag about. i.e. "I did the Ironman" "I did this or that race" "It's an Ironman qualifier" "I'm going to do this or that race". There are a few who can win, place, and show in tri's. The rest are people who have no clue to their position in the race and plod along in order to simply "finish" and then go tell all their friends boring stories of split times and mention the word Ironman at least a half dozen times. Very few people are interested in knowing the splits of the winners, let alone someone who placed 250th in a local tri. Add to that, hearing Ironman bandied about as if it's some magical event is just plain wrong and tiring to listen to. :roll:
So, by the same token, how many of the 30 odd thousand that take part in the big city marathons can win or place. doesn't stop thouosands taking part without any idea of their place in the field. Likewise how different to a TT? I get that you don't like tri's but to say there is no competition is just wrong.0 -
dennisn wrote:Ai_1 wrote:
As for the competition aspect... what a load of bull!
I don't buy it. I'm at various bike races on a weekly basis and find that the competition is always intense. Especially at crits where you risk being pulled out if you're lapped.
With triathletes the mindset seems to be more of having something to brag about. i.e. "I did the Ironman" "I did this or that race" "It's an Ironman qualifier" "I'm going to do this or that race". There are a few who can win, place, and show in tri's. The rest are people who have no clue to their position in the race and plod along in order to simply "finish" and then go tell all their friends boring stories of split times and mention the word Ironman at least a half dozen times. Very few people are interested in knowing the splits of the winners, let alone someone who placed 250th in a local tri. Add to that, hearing Ironman bandied about as if it's some magical event is just plain wrong and tiring to listen to. :roll:
Dennis, I realize you are the forum authority on everything, however before you pontificate further on triathletes, go do a few OD's or longer then report back. Honestly you talk a great match but for those of us who actually do it, you're an incredible bore. :shock:'Performance analysis and Froome not being clean was a media driven story. I haven’t heard one guy in the peloton say a negative thing about Froome, and I haven’t heard a single person in the peloton suggest Froome isn’t clean.' TSP0 -
You're way off target. If you look at an elite triathlon race you'll see that it's very competitive and akin to athletics, swimming, etc at the same level. Mass participation events don't have a direct equivalent in bike terms (they're perhaps half way between a crit and a sportive) but are equivalent to other mass participation events like 5k, 10k, half marathon or marathon running. Do you have the same opinion of long distance runners that you have of triathletes? The number of people in with a chance of winning at a marathon is usually in single digits but there may be anything from a few hndred to many thousand participants. It's a race at the front and a challenge for the rest where they'll race themselves and each other. If you think this is pointless or worthy of ridicule then I think that's your problem not theirs!dennisn wrote:Ai_1 wrote:
As for the competition aspect... what a load of bull!
I don't buy it. I'm at various bike races on a weekly basis and find that the competition is always intense. Especially at crits where you risk being pulled out if you're lapped.
With triathletes the mindset seems to be more of having something to brag about. i.e. "I did the Ironman" "I did this or that race" "It's an Ironman qualifier" "I'm going to do this or that race". There are a few who can win, place, and show in tri's. The rest are people who have no clue to their position in the race and plod along in order to simply "finish" and then go tell all their friends boring stories of split times and mention the word Ironman at least a half dozen times. Very few people are interested in knowing the splits of the winners, let alone someone who placed 250th in a local tri. Add to that, hearing Ironman bandied about as if it's some magical event is just plain wrong and tiring to listen to. :roll:
Comparing a single category bike race to a mass participation triathlon is an intentional misrepresentation
As for being bored listening to people talk about doing a triathlon. Again you're missing the point IMO. I don't think it's that triathletes are especially boring, boastful or self involved. It's simply that as a cyclist your interests overlap with triathletes and you're more likely to have these conversations. If you are only interested in cycling as a stand-alone sport then you're likely to find large chunks of what they boring. Tough! Listening to people talk about any sport you're not interested in tends to be be a bit of a bore after a while. I don't see how this is something to fault with triathletes? Most of my friends aren't interested in anything I do on a bike except maybe for being curious about the distance involved in a sportive.0 -
I'm both a racing cyclist and a triathlete and I'd say dennis is sort of right here.
Triathlon is a more inclusive sport with a broader range of ability where simply finishing counts for something for many people. The tendency to have staggered starts and fields of many hundreds if not thousands of competitors does mean that people's placing is unclear to both spectators and competitors, and only the top few know where they are during the race. Completing even a standard distance event is something that is a great challenge for many, and they enjoy the satisfaction of just finishing in the first event, then gradually target faster times, age group positions etc from there. Lots of competitors means lots of spectators and lots of encouragement for everyone. Everyone gets a medal.
Cycling is a more competitive sport where the weak are quickly discouraged. A beginner's event with say a field of 40-50 riders in a crit quickly drops those who can't figure in the race and they then suffer the indignity of riding around by themselves with everyone knowing they've been shelled. Then they're pulled out having failed to complete the race. They then choose between upping the training and going on a crash diet, or coming out and repeating the experience next time. Small fields means few spectators and not much atmosphere. On the plus side, you know where you are in a bike race, and often you can have an impact on the race (as long as you're at a somewhere competitive level). Also, you don't have to do any swimming or running
I do both and enjoy them both for what they are.
Ironman events are something else from a normal local triathlon - £400 to enter, £1000s for travel/accommodation/kit, loads of people walking around in finishers Tshirts thinking they're something special, but when you finish it's a very special kind of elation, quite different from anything I've ever got from cycling. I never finished a cycling event with an MC calling out my name, a crowd cheering and cheerleaders dancing. It's a big ego boost, but there's nothing wrong with that unless you've already got a big ego.0 -
Ai_1 wrote:
As for being bored listening to people talk about doing a triathlon. Again you're missing the point IMO. I don't think it's that triathletes are especially boring, boastful or self involved. It's simply that as a cyclist your interests overlap with triathletes and you're more likely to have these conversations. If you are only interested in cycling as a stand-alone sport then you're likely to find large chunks of what they boring. Tough! Listening to people talk about any sport you're not interested in tends to be be a bit of a bore after a while. I don't see how this is something to fault with triathletes? Most of my friends aren't interested in anything I do on a bike except maybe for being curious about the distance involved in a sportive.
No, I believe they are "boring, boastful, and self involved". I have never bought into boasting and bragging, not from my friends and not from anyone else. There is a whole bunch of truth in the old joke "How do you know you're talking to an Ironman?" - "He's telling you about it." These are people who want everyone to think that they are competitive athletes and tend to brag about it whenever they can. I don't get much of that from other groups(runners, cyclists, etc.). I believe that they think that simply "doing" some event makes you an athlete, and they will tell you all about it as if they were pro's.0 -
It's a real shame you have such a poor opinion of such a broad spectrum of superb athletes and insist on pressing your opinion on everyone.'Performance analysis and Froome not being clean was a media driven story. I haven’t heard one guy in the peloton say a negative thing about Froome, and I haven’t heard a single person in the peloton suggest Froome isn’t clean.' TSP0
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Hmmmmmm. My wife just gave me some excellent advice. She said that when peoples ideas seem to get you down or seem idiotic just keep repeating to yourself "not my circus, not my monkeys". I believe I'll do that. 0
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What is it that gets you down about the idea that triathletes might be worthwhile human beings?dennisn wrote:Hmmmmmm. My wife just gave me some excellent advice. She said that when peoples ideas seem to get you down or seem idiotic just keep repeating to yourself "not my circus, not my monkeys". I believe I'll do that.
Clearly you think triathletes are hugely flawed people but surely you'd prefer if they weren't? Surely the better the arguments in favour of respecting triathletes the happier everyone will be.....except the bitter prejudiced sorts of course. And I'm sure you're not one of those...0 -
FleshTuxedo wrote:Ironman events ....... loads of people walking around in finishers Tshirts thinking they're something special,
Sort of my point.
Plus I've never thought the Ironman was anything other than some long event, of which their are many. Seems easy compared to many multi day events. You wake up in your luxury hotel room, beat yourself up out on the course, get a massage, go to bed in your luxury hotel, sleep till noon, spend the next couple of days in the shade on the beach of your luxury hotel. How hard can that be? :?0 -
Ai_1 wrote:
What is it that gets you down about the idea that triathletes might be worthwhile human beings?dennisn wrote:Hmmmmmm. My wife just gave me some excellent advice. She said that when peoples ideas seem to get you down or seem idiotic just keep repeating to yourself "not my circus, not my monkeys". I believe I'll do that.
I believe I've told you before that I don't tolerate braggers and boasters very well. Simple as that. 0 -
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Yeah but that's not what I asked!dennisn wrote:Ai_1 wrote:
What is it that gets you down about the idea that triathletes might be worthwhile human beings?dennisn wrote:Hmmmmmm. My wife just gave me some excellent advice. She said that when peoples ideas seem to get you down or seem idiotic just keep repeating to yourself "not my circus, not my monkeys". I believe I'll do that.
I believe I've told you before that I don't tolerate braggers and boasters very well. Simple as that.
There's nothing wrong with being proud of your accomplishments. There's a difference between that and bragging or boasting. I'm just trying to convince you that most triathletes are the former rather than the latter as you believe is the case. Of course to some extent it's in the eye of the beholder so our existing opinions can become self-reinforcing. Perhaps I see pride and satisfaction after a big effort where you see egotism and boastfulness. Perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Cycling has it's fair share of braggers and boasters too....just look at some of the ridiculous comments that regularly turn up on these forums. I'm sure, like me, everyone reading this would hate to all be tarred with that brush. I think we should treat others accordingly....
If I perpetuate the unsubstantiated theory that all triathletes are "boring, boastful, and self involved" then I can't very well complain when others label all cyclists as elitist, uber-conservative, snobs. Those traits exist within cycling but they don't and shouldn't define it. Let's treat others as we'd like to be treated and quit the tribalist, divisionist, nastiness.0 -
Ai_1 wrote:dennisn wrote:Ai_1 wrote:
What is it that gets you down about the idea that triathletes might be worthwhile human beings?dennisn wrote:Hmmmmmm. My wife just gave me some excellent advice. She said that when peoples ideas seem to get you down or seem idiotic just keep repeating to yourself "not my circus, not my monkeys". I believe I'll do that.
I believe I've told you before that I don't tolerate braggers and boasters very well. Simple as that.
Yeah but that's not what I asked!
There's nothing wrong with being proud of your accomplishments. There's a difference between that and bragging or boasting. I'm just trying to convince you that most triathletes are the former rather than the latter as you believe is the case. Of course to some extent it's in the eye of the beholder so our existing opinions can become self-reinforcing. Perhaps I see pride and satisfaction after a big effort where you see egotism and boastfulness. Perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Cycling has it's fair share of braggers and boasters too....just look at some of the ridiculous comments that regularly turn up on these forums. I'm sure, like me, everyone reading this would hate to all be tarred with that brush. I think we should treat others accordingly....
Sorry. Yes they(and we all) have potential to be "worthwhile human beings". My problem is tolerating someone who wants ME to be (somewhat) in awe of THEM. Not my game at all, once again bragging and boasting. I don't need people to fawn over me because I ride a bike, play the violin, or whatever. I'm OK with what it does for me and how it makes me feel and don't tell everyone all about it(i.e. splits, Ironman, DOING this or that). I don't need anyone else's approval or disapproval, nor do I want it. I will admit that all sports have these kinds of people but, to me, triathletes seem to be the most needful of attention.
As for accomplishments. Simply finishing or doing something may seem like an accomplishment to many and that's OK. Telling everyone about it is simply needful bragging. Especially when you finished 250th. To me that's simply an accomplishment, not an athletic accomplishment.0 -
dennisn wrote:Especially when you finished 250th. To me that's simply an accomplishment, not an athletic accomplishment.
Athlete: noun: a person who is proficient in sports and other forms of physical exercise.
I'd say you have to learn what the definition of an athlete is. I'd say if you complete an Iron man you are pretty proficient in my eyes. Anyone who swim 4k, cycles 180k and runs a marathon in one day is pretty impressive to me.0 -
Likewise. I think you're entitled to be proud of yourself for doing anything that's a challenge regardless how it compares with anyone else's performance. However, completing an Ironman within the time limit is a challenge for almost anyone.sjmclean wrote:dennisn wrote:Especially when you finished 250th. To me that's simply an accomplishment, not an athletic accomplishment.
Athlete: noun: a person who is proficient in sports and other forms of physical exercise.
I'd say you have to learn what the definition of an athlete is. I'd say if you complete an Iron man you are pretty proficient in my eyes. Anyone who swim 4k, cycles 180k and runs a marathon in one day is pretty impressive to me.0
