Newb to club riding wearing World Champs jersey

MikeWW

I am partly with the OP on this. We have a guy that is a masters World Champ in the club( it has taken him 15 years of trying) and we had a women who won a worlds jersey last year as well. We also have a couple of National jerseys that have been won.I
These are massive achievements that the club is very proud of. Whilst anybody would understand that someone new would not appreciate this I think someone would have a quiet word with him after a few weeks when it was less likely to put him off.
I think the same would apply to GB kit
I don't think this has anything to do with being elitist its about a level of respect for the people that have earned the jerseys
Replica kit, KOM jerseys different thing altogether

neeb

Haven't read everything in this thread, but what amazes me most is the attitudes of the posters who seem to think that supporting a completely harmless established tradition within the sport, which exists by common consent as a mark of respect for the achievements of others, is somehow snobbish and elitist. The implication seems to be that any tradition is snobbish and elitist by definition. That may be a position that you can argue for from an extreme libertarian / anarchist / 1970s-punk-philosophy point of view, but are these posters really coming from there having thought it through, or is it simply that they can't make the connection between a leisure / sport activity and tradition, or think that there shouldn't be one?

When I see someone in a WC jersey who obviously hasn't earned it it just clashes, a bit like seeing someone in trainers and a T-shirt at a wedding. Either the person is ignorant or they are making a statement against the tradition in question (it's not like you even need to make an active effort to not wear a WC jersey). So if they are making a statement, what are they trying to say? That their right to wear whatever they want is more valuable and important than the tradition? Why do they think that this tradition is valueless? By making the jersey rarer it increases its potency as a symbol when it is worn by those who have earned it.

I think maybe some people are just a bit thick (which I freely admit could be construed as snobbish and elitist..)

Mr Dog

'Its time to save us from ourselves'..... its a shirt.... at least to 99.999% of us. Keep your tradition, nothing wrong with that, but don't force it down our throat. If you feel that strongly buy em all and burn the lot. Maybe start your own elite cycling group.

garryc

After reading the thoughts of the OP I want to throw all my plain jerseys in the bin and buy nothing but World Champion, King of the Mountain, Green, Pink, Red, Blue, White Jerseys (hang on there's a colour for nearly every prize, what colour is 'safe' and acceptable?)

Fortunately the club I belong to have no rules and dosn't seem to consist of po-faced snobs. I like to wear my club jersey but I also like wearing my Cervelo/Cofidis/Yellow/etc jersey as the mood takes me. Have I earnt it? yes, some of them cost nearly £50 which I paid for out of my earnings.

rolf_f

neeb wrote:

Haven't read everything in this thread, but what amazes me most is the attitudes of the posters who seem to think that supporting a completely harmless established tradition within the sport, which exists by common consent as a mark of respect for the achievements of others, is somehow snobbish and elitist.

Is it an established tradition? As I said before, winning a WC jersey just entitles you to wear it during races. This is a free country so we can wear what we like outside of any officially sanctioned event. Who says that restricting that right is an 'established tradition'?

There are plenty of people here standing up for the right of people to wear what they like despite probably not owning a WC jersey themselves or ever having any intent to. I think the issue as much as anything is a dislike of the petty minded rule obsessed club mentatility that sometimes makes itself apparent. These are the people who would have despised you at school for having the wrong brand trainers. Who'd want to go for a bike ride with them?

neeb

Rolf F wrote:

Is it an established tradition? As I said before, winning a WC jersey just entitles you to wear it during races. This is a free country so we can wear what we like outside of any officially sanctioned event. Who says that restricting that right is an 'established tradition'?
There are plenty of people here standing up for the right of people to wear what they like despite probably not owning a WC jersey themselves or ever having any intent to. I think the issue as much as anything is a dislike of the petty minded rule obsessed club mentatility that sometimes makes itself apparent. These are the people who would have despised you at school for having the wrong brand trainers. Who'd want to go for a bike ride with them?

Yes, it's an established tradition amongst people following and participating in cycling as a social activity, has been for years and years.

No-one is saying that anyone should be prevented or restricted from wearing what they want - as you say, it's a free country. This is not a right that requires being stood up for.

It's completely unlike the brand of trainers at school thing, that's the opposite of tradition as it changes every 6 months, and also it has no directed purpose.

Why is it petty minded to stand up for a convention that respects the achievements of others? I think the petty mindedness is in thinking "I'll do exactly what I want" without being bothered to think about why there might be subtle and complex reasons for not doing so in some situations. It's exactly the same as the tourist or expat mentality you see amongst some people living or visiting other countries, i.e. an unwillingness to be open-minded to difference and culture.

neeb

Mr Dog wrote:

'Its time to save us from ourselves'..... its a shirt.... at least to 99.999% of us. Keep your tradition, nothing wrong with that, but don't force it down our throat. If you feel that strongly buy em all and burn the lot. Maybe start your own elite cycling group.

Yes it's a shirt, and a medal is a piece of metal, "Dr." is two letters of the alphabet etc. These things are also symbols/signifiers however and most people don't go around entitling themselves to them without earning them, because they realise at some level that the whole point in having them in the first place relies on that.

Peddle Up!

ddraver wrote:

But he rode a Trek...Fail!

Oi! :evil:

scottarm

I've been reading this thread for the last few days now and I can't hold back any longer,

coming from a team sports background rugby and football and now starting cycling due to now having two very dodgy knees I can't believe the attitude of the OP.

In a team sport yes you take the piss out each other, but you are a team and you don't single people out and bully them for what they wear to training

As for put them up front and run the legs off them, this just persuades me to cycle alone ( that way we're always up front ) or with friends and avoid clubs if that's their attitude,

hopefully this club is a one off but judging by the supportive comments I'm now starting to doubt it

wear what you want, anybody who doesn't like it can get stuffed !!!!

I'll get off my soap box now rant over

ddraver

Peddle Up! wrote:

ddraver wrote:

But he rode a Trek...Fail!

Oi! :evil:

Only becasue if you'd gone to that much trouble to emulate someone, buying the "other" american brand just seemed like an oversight (moreso as there are a lot of Spesh shops around N Wales)

Nothing against Treks i promise, some of my best friends are Treks...

ddraver

scottarm wrote:

In a team sport yes you take the wee-wee out each other, but you are a team and you don't single people out and bully them for what they wear to training

Well, you say that but our second row once turned up in a pair of pink woollen tights for an evening training session - He got a bit of stick for that...(lifting him in the Line out was impossible, gave me rope burn it did!)

scottarm

[Well, you say that but our second row once turned up in a pair of pink woollen tights for an evening training session - He got a bit of stick for that...(lifting him in the Line out was impossible, gave me rope burn it did!)]

LOL its hard to bully a second row![/quote]

Mr Dog

Talent... is not symbolic. The things we use to identify talent are abstract. I simply can't the differentiate between any sporting replica jersey. Do you think the same about every jersey? Trying going to Hampden Park and telling the Tartan Army to give back their Scotland kit.
Those wearing such kit are supporting tradition in a different way and are free to do so.
Now where did I leave my KOM top????

cougie

I think its perfectly fair to take the p** out of people for wearing jerseys that set themselves apart. One of my mates wears yellow and polka dot jerseys and he's slow up the hills.

Riding up Alpe De'Huez though - you should have seen the attention he got - people pushing him, giving him water, putting a parasol over him to keep him out of the sun.... The fans LOVED that. I didn't see any mardy gits tutting over his choice of jersey.

Mr Dog

Have to agree with cougie.. only in the UK. Maybe it goes back to the old class structure and all that pillow biting.

shm_uk

What a revealing thread.

I never knew there was a dress code for just pedalling about the place on bicycles.

greasedscotsman

neeb wrote:

Yes, it's an established tradition amongst people following and participating in cycling as a social activity, has been for years and years.

No it isn't.

MrChuck

neeb wrote:

Mr Dog wrote:

'Its time to save us from ourselves'..... its a shirt.... at least to 99.999% of us. Keep your tradition, nothing wrong with that, but don't force it down our throat. If you feel that strongly buy em all and burn the lot. Maybe start your own elite cycling group.

Yes it's a shirt, and a medal is a piece of metal, "Dr." is two letters of the alphabet etc. These things are also symbols/signifiers however and most people don't go around entitling themselves to them without earning them, because they realise at some level that the whole point in having them in the first place relies on that.

I've some sympathy with this. I don't think the analogy with football shirts really holds up for the WC/KoM etc jerseys- for replica team jerseys, sure- I think that tradition is fairly well established. But IMO wearing a WC jersey is a bit like wearing one of those green jackets you get in golf for winning a masters, or a cap for your country (yes, I know you don't get an actual cap anymore!) or a medal- it means YOU earned it or won it. So personally I don't really see why anyone would want to wear one unless they do actually happen to be one.

That said, the jerseys are for sale and people can wear what they like and I think it's a bit much to dictate to someone what they should or shouldn't wear. Although if you want to join a club I don't think ti's too much to ask to observe club etiquette.

And I don't think wanting to see etiquette followed is the same as the gear snobbery some on here seem to want to confuse it with.

ddraver

Mr Dog wrote:

Have to agree with cougie.. only in the UK. Maybe it goes back to the old class structure and all that pillow biting.

Certainly no one cars here in NL, we have people in club kits, team kits, other club kits, assos kits, aldi kits, on GBP5000 bikes on GBP500 bikes - no one says a word, we just ride and enjoy ourselves!

rolf_f

neeb wrote:

Yes, it's an established tradition amongst people following and participating in cycling as a social activity, has been for years and years.

No-one is saying that anyone should be prevented or restricted from wearing what they want - as you say, it's a free country. This is not a right that requires being stood up for.

It's completely unlike the brand of trainers at school thing, that's the opposite of tradition as it changes every 6 months, and also it has no directed purpose.

Just because in your opinion it is an established tradition doesn't mean it is. As for the trainers thing - it is irrelevant whether or not the fashions change - the point is that the same mentality of self satisfied people dictating what you can and cannot wear applies in the schoolground as it does in these rather depressing clubs.

I still think this is all deliberate trolling. Dilemna just lit the blue touch paper and retired to watch the fireworks.

BobbyTrigger

+1 thats it like. I turn up with MB spuds on my bike and a peak on my lid for heavens sake!!!

MikeWW

Rolf F
neeb is correct it is an established etiquette
I am wondering whether you are missing the point or just don't get it.

When you have people around you that have spent a significant proportion of their life trying to win something and finally achieve it then they have earnt the respect of many/all of their piers. if you then just go out and buy the same jersey what does that then say about you and your attitude to what they went out and earnt?

Totally different to wearing replica team kit

Does that make more sense?

Cleat Eastwood

MikeWW wrote:

if you then just go out and buy the same jersey what does that then say about you and your attitude to what they went out and earnt?

I think it says 2 things

Firstly that you're showing respect to the guy it wanting to emulate him and feel inspired by his dedication and ability and are proud to show support for a niche sport.

Secondly it's saying the kit fits well, feels fine and makes you feel good when riding your bike.

Both of which add to the enjoyment of cycling. It's supposed to be fun.

Pross

Do the UCI protect the rainbow stripes design? If so, presumably they are happy to allow copies to be made and sold to the general public.

greasedscotsman

MikeWW wrote:

Rolf F
neeb is correct it is an established etiquette

But it's not. The only place it is established is on internet forums!

Pep

greasedscotsman wrote:

MikeWW wrote:

Rolf F
neeb is correct it is an established etiquette

But it's not. !

+1

If it WAS established this thread would not exist.

McBoom

Pross wrote:

Do the UCI protect the rainbow stripes design? If so, presumably they are happy to allow copies to be made and sold to the general public.

I made this point earlier, and yes, they do.

http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/getOb ... c&LangId=1

Can't accuse joe public of not respecting the institution by wearing the stripes, when the institution are the ones happy to flog it for cash.

brettjmcc

MikeWW wrote:

I am partly with the OP on this. We have a guy that is a masters World Champ in the club( it has taken him 15 years of trying) and we had a women who won a worlds jersey last year as well. We also have a couple of National jerseys that have been won.I
These are massive achievements that the club is very proud of. Whilst anybody would understand that someone new would not appreciate this I think someone would have a quiet word with him after a few weeks when it was less likely to put him off.
I think the same would apply to GB kit
I don't think this has anything to do with being elitist its about a level of respect for the people that have earned the jerseys
Replica kit, KOM jerseys different thing altogether

You are ofcourse entitled to your own opinion. However, please tell me you spend your spare time shouting at people playing football in parks in say England football kit, telling them to take it off as they don't actually play for England. If not jog on.

If the people who own the rights want to flog replicas and there is a demand for it, then so be it - simples.

rolf_f

MikeWW wrote:

When you have people around you that have spent a significant proportion of their life trying to win something and finally achieve it then they have earnt the respect of many/all of their piers. if you then just go out and buy the same jersey what does that then say about you and your attitude to what they went out and earnt?

What does it say about people who seem more bothered about the jersey than the achievement itself! World champions don't earn the respect of their peers by wearing stripey jerseys; they do it by being the best in the world.

If I go out and buy a World Champion jersey it says nothing about my attitude to what a real world champion did either way and (IMO) only a fool would think it did. Sorry.

PS - a pier is a long structure that sticks out into the sea often with a fairground at the end of it! It's difficult to earn the respect of a pier

MikeWW

Rolf F wrote:

MikeWW wrote:

When you have people around you that have spent a significant proportion of their life trying to win something and finally achieve it then they have earnt the respect of many/all of their piers. if you then just go out and buy the same jersey what does that then say about you and your attitude to what they went out and earnt?

What does it say about people who seem more bothered about the jersey than the achievement itself! World champions don't earn the respect of their peers by wearing stripey jerseys; they do it by being the best in the world.

If I go out and buy a World Champion jersey it says nothing about my attitude to what a real world champion did either way and (IMO) only a fool would think it did. Sorry.

PS - a pier is a long structure that sticks out into the sea often with a fairground at the end of it! It's difficult to earn the respect of a pier

It says plenty about you-as do your posts