Marmotte 2012
Comments
-
Training starting in October,
Plan is 2-3 turbo sessions per week aimed at increasing FTP till March with longest ride possible in the potentially crap weather till then too, probably 3 hours @ zone 3 with thresholds on the hills. Warm weather week early march and then trying to stretch the weekend rides aimed at endurance thereafter with continued turbo sessions aimed at increasing threshold.
After this it's hills, hills, hills.
Was thinking about getting a cyclox bike as winter commuter now dead, any benefit in racing cyclox in the local league0 -
nantes23
Hi,
Apologies for direct PMAlso doing the Marmotte at 40th gift to myself. Getting mixed messages on whether to go as part of a package or DIY. Keen to know if you've come up with any good ideas.
My current preference is to drive down on the Weds and drive back the following Monday. There don't seem to be too many packages for 5 nights.
Cheers,
Sean0 -
Have decided to go with Veloventoux as group now includes friends of friends and so easier to let someone else do the worrying. Trip is Thursday to Sunday, so it'll be a bit of a Ninja raid
0 -
My current preference is to drive down on the Weds and drive back the following Monday. There don't seem to be too many packages for 5 nights.
You probably won't feel like doing much cycling the day after so do you really need two extra nights?
Have a chat with Phil at Gastrobiking. I did the Marmotte with them this year and the Chalet he used was available to stay in for the Sunday night if you wanted to.0 -
There is a rumour that one Acte of the Etape will be on the Tuesday following the Marmotte from Albertville..........0
-
twotyred wrote:My current preference is to drive down on the Weds and drive back the following Monday. There don't seem to be too many packages for 5 nights.
You probably won't feel like doing much cycling the day after so do you really need two extra nights?
Have a chat with Phil at Gastrobiking. I did the Marmotte with them this year and the Chalet he used was available to stay in for the Sunday night if you wanted to.
We stayed over until Monday. Had a nice lie in on the Sunday then went out for a gentle ride up the Col D'ornon and then had a lovely relaxing afternoon in a bar. Nice meal Sunday night and then the crazy drive home on Monday. Seemed much better than all the people we saw packing up and going Sunday morning.
If you can afford the extra days holiday then I think it is well worth it.Top Ten finisher - PTP Tour of Britain 20160 -
38 weeks to go ! 240k on the bike this week, developing aerobic base but have bought a cyclox to race in the local bun fights too 0
-
Anyone got a training plan for this ?. Pretty much with the Coppi plan at present of just trying to ride the bike as much as possible.
All and any help much appreciated. Got to get my big unit over the hills0 -
Another thing, anyone got the timings for the ascents.
Cheers0 -
spokegeezer wrote:Anyone can get near the front if you get there early enough, that aint a la fuga thing and dont expect great extra feed stations from them either, they only had one 3km from the summit of the galibier, worst place possible to put the damn thing!
There was plenty of food and water and the free feed stations of which there are plenty. you cant rely on la fuga to keep you going all day with just one feed station, total rubbish.
All so very true.0 -
Full Merckx wrote:Another thing, anyone got the timings for the ascents.
Cheers
Not done it but that rather depends on your power, pacing, technique and the environmental factors you have to contend with
Here's an old one and a very interesting it is too. It's by Alex Simmons whom you will see in the training boards a lot.
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=18085420 -
Another thing, anyone got the timings for the ascents
Work your own out. You live in Glasgow right? Then time yourself on the the Crow road climb which is 270 metres climbing from Lennoxtown. If you know of another bigger hill with 7-9% gradient then even better. From that you can work out your rate of vertical ascent in metres per hour. This will be the fastest you could theoretically do the huge climbs on the Marmotte if you were fresh at the bottom of each. More likely your actual rate of ascent will be at least 10% below that figure. So divide that figure into 5000 and you'll get an idea of how long you'll be climbing during the Marmotte.
You also mention that you're a big guy. If some of that that weight is excess blubber then make weight loss as important as getting the training in. Each kg you lose will save you 5 mins on the Marmotte. Lose 10kg like I did and you've just made up 50 mins. Imagine how much training you'd need to do to improve by that amount of time. It could mean the difference between making the bottom of Alpe d'Huez before the cut off or having to hand your chip in.0 -
You can borrow these if you like!Another thing, anyone got the timings for the ascents.
Glandon 2:04:37
Telegraphe 1:08:01
Galibier 2:09:53
Alpe (Viel) 1:31:13
(2 days later I did the Alpe in 1:12 so it just shows what the previous bits take out of you!)
Total 10 hours ish.0 -
Thanks MalcolmFrost, Twotyred and Doyler78 they are very helpful. I was just trying to get my head round how long it would take on each time. I could use the time to ascend the Crow as a measure of how my training's going too. I'm quite a bit away from an FTP of 310 and even further away from 69kg though 0
-
Training : If you want to enjoy the day, ride long steep hills (10%+) repeatedly. I was training for La Marm in the Yorkshire Dales and the 15%+ hills were perfect. 10% feels like a walk in the park afterward. Alternatively, get yourself on a turbo and do BIG resistance intervals at your climbing cadence. When I say Intervals, I mean 20-30 minute intervals at 65 - 70 RPM. You need to be able to climb at a decent rate for 1.5 hours and building your strength with 20 min intervals and stringing these workouts together with long rides at the weekend (80 milers, increasing to centuries in the spring) will see you right.
I'm doing it again next year all being well and will be increasing my weekend rides to 120 miles+ in prep for the event. A century around your local roads WILL NOT promote the endurance you need for 108 miles in the Alps. FACT.
Transport : Euro-tunnel. Drive. Camp. Ride. Done. It's not as cheap as it used to be due to the euro but the arse should be falling out of it any day now so it might be as cheap as frites come July 2012!
I can recommend Camping La Piscine in Bourg.
WEIGHT. People have alluded to this above and it's no coincidence. Fat birds don't fly and the more fat you can shift in the months prior will stand you in better stead. I dropped about a stone for it and, if I hadn't, i'd have had a VERY different day. Once you make it to the Alpe, hang a left and see that 14% slope you'll know what I mean.
The 10euro you get back for your transponder is conveniently placed in your hand whilst you're staring at the finishing medals available for.. wait for it... 10 euro beneath your very nose. Hand back the note, grab yourself a gold (you'll have deserved it) and go get a beer.
See you at the bar.0 -
Full Merckx: I'm loving your faux modesty. You'll be absolutely fine on those climbs. Just make sure the Big Basque takes you on a couple of trips up Glen Quaich in the spring.
I'm a bigger unit than you and doing the tourmalet etape 2 years ago it wasn't the gradient or duration of the long grinding climbs that killed me, it was the heat. So let's hope for a cool dry day.0 -
Posting @ 6.43 ! You on early mormimg childcare Alan ? Could nip in a turbo session Remember you're much younger than me 0
-
You got it in one.
Except rather than a turbo I went for a 3 lap run* round Queens Park.
*When I type run I mean shuffle0 -
Fullmerkcx
Have a think about your gearing as well, I ran a compact with a 27 last year, this year I got hold of a 30 and as I have a fastish cadence it made all the difference. You'll see lots of triples as well. (At my level anyway!)
You could get away with only one bottle, the feed stations are quite close together and there are villages where you can pick up some from a fountain. Saves more weight.0 -
malcolmfrost
Is that you? The malcolm frost that did the Etape in 2010 and stayed in a campsite just outside Pau with your missus?.. Just wondering as I think it was me camping next to you??..0 -
I think a big thing is don't blow the ride up into something it isn't - it's a hard day out on the bike but it's no harder than going up into the Peak District or Yorkshire Dales and hitting the hills for 100 miles. Yes the climbs are longer but there are no killer gradients (though don't be kidded into thinking it's all gradual ascent), the road surfaces are a sight better than we have and you'll have riders to draft off when you are on the flatter sections or long descent off the Galibier.
If you can get yourself race fit - I mean your average 3rd cat club racer fit - you should be able to get round in maybe 8-9 hours - bit more for big guys possibly a bit less for natural climbers.
Two mistakes I made. Don't carry too much weight - as said above you don't need two full litre bottles at all times - find out where the water stations are and plan accordingly. Do you really need a chain tool, cold weather gear, that much food, etc etc. Be prepared but remember weight costs time. Second one is you want to get over the Glandon with people of your own ability. If you take the first climb (never know whether to call it the Glandon or Croix de Fer) too easy and then have a rest at the "neutralised" feed stop you'll get down to the valley with riders who are relatively slower than you and you'll find yourself frustrated that nobody is making any kind of pace - and you really don't want to be sat into the wind up to the Telegraph. Go out fairly hard - you've got the descent of the Glandon to rest and the valley road in a group wont be too hard - the Telegraph is nothing too out of the ordinary either.
And if you aren't a great descender then practice as there is stacks of time to be taken back or lost coming off the Galibier.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
tbh i didn't find it as hard as expected. yes it's a relentless grind but there's no 20% climbs after 90 miles that you'll struggle to even turn the pedals going up, as long as you have sensible gearing (i had 34/27) you can turn your legs at a steady pace and get up the alpe without too much trouble. i saved a lot for the alpe and ended up racing the last kilo or so, but my aim was to get round in a state to enjoy it and that was about it."Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago0
-
A century around your local roads WILL NOT promote the endurance you need for 108 miles in the Alps. FACT.
Disagree with that. Living where I do there aren't any significant hills but I got round the Marmotte OK with regular training 5 days a week. My longest training ride was 4 hours. I also did four century sportives but the biggest hills I did were on the Dragon Ride.
Thinking I will do the Marmotte again next year and working out what to do differently to improve my time. I'll definitely try to get more hills in even if that means trips into Wales, I'll try to get 3 kg lighter than I was this year and I'll look at my gearing. I used 34 x 28 this year but may go for an Apex cassette to allow me to get my cadence up. Finally I think that having done it once I have a better idea of pacing and what I'm capable of so will have the confidence to press on more.0 -
Living where I do there aren't any significant hills but I got round the Marmotte OK with regular training 5 days a week
That's fair enough, you're obviously a more natural cyclist than me. I didn't have the luxury of being able to train 5 days a week. At the most only 4. Also, I didn't want to get around "OK", I wanted to enjoy the day and have enough left in the tank to go full gas on the Alpe. Which I did.
I think if you don't have the hills, you definitely need to be able to do a flat 120 miles @ a decent average . Just my two-penneth.
Whatever happens, don't train half arsed for a few months. Give it some proper focus, get your family on board with your goals and enjoy the experience.0 -
Honestly I'm far from a natural cyclist and I'm paddling in the shallow end of the gene pool when it comes to having an aerobic engine plus I've just hit 50. I agree that being able to do 120 miles at a decent average is necessary but you don't need hills to be able to do that.
Getting round OK got me a silver medal and I enjoyed the day- my best day on a bike. Ok I didn't go full gas on the Alpe but I didn't fall to bits on it either. That 5 days a week training amounted to between 8-10 hours a week so not a huge amount. Train smart not long.0 -
That'll be me!! What a disaster that was, food poisoning the week before and lost 5kg as I couldn't eat. Got the tap on the shoulder on the Marie Blanque.......malcolmfrost
Is that you? The malcolm frost that did the Etape in 2010 and stayed in a campsite just outside Pau with your missus?.. Just wondering as I think it was me camping next to you??.
Looks like back to Pau next year.0 -
Rode the Marmotte last year and this. JonGinge of these parts was my training partner. The thread seems to have evolved into training and big-day tips, so hopefully some of these pointers will be useful:
1. For those who need to lose weight, I did pre-breakfast/pre-commute (starting pre-6am) turbo sessions from 30 mins to 1 hour. These helped me lose my "winter coat" much earlier than in recent years, so I was faster going into March and April.
2. Watch you don't push too big a gear on the turbo. I did this this year and found that I was climbing in a bigger gear (in the 19 and 21 as opposed to the 23), so, while I was faster this year, I was really suffering up the Galibier as the bigger gear took its toll up the Glandon and Telegraphe - you've only got a 4k descent off the Telegraphe before hitting Valloire and the gradual grind up to the foot of the Galibier.
3. Despite the suffering on the Galibier, I agree with the point made above that you should go hard up the Glandon. You can recover on the descent and on the stretch to the Telegraphe (definitely get in a big group for the latter; slow down to wait for a group if you have to).
4. Try not to stop at the top of the Glandon: there's a water-stop at the foot of the Telegraphe. Ditto with the top of the Telegraphe: there's a water/food-stop in Valloire.
5. Try to get in a group off the Lautaret: you're often faced with a headwind for the long descent into Bourg. Add that to the fact that the road undulates after the reservoir, you need to share the workload into Bourg.
6. No heroics up ADH; go at a steady pace. The first three hairpins are steep and it will be hot. You can go from feeling good to an internal systems failure in a couple of hairpins. There's a water/food stop at the roundabout just before the road leading up to ADH. That's a good place to stop to strip off a little e.g. to remove gloves, helmet and baselayer.
7. If you can get out there by midday on Wednesday and do a short ride to get used to the altitude, that helps. Me, Jon and a couple of others rode up the Sarenne Weds pm, then the Glandon and onto the Croix de Fer on the Thursday. The latter might be a bit long, but I didn't think I'd be going back next year (which I'm not), so wanted to ride up the CdF.
8. No rule against using carbon rims; I used alus last year, carbon this year. I didn't suffer any blow-outs, but I did practice on them and alter my braking style to suit them.. I tested them down the Sarenne and Glandon and was happy with them. I did however take a spare set of alu wheels (and brake pads), just in case.
9. Avoid overtraining (something Jon and I did very well ). I didn't do one imperial century ride between the Marmotte 2010 and Marmotte 2011 - my longest ride was 75-odd miles, and I only ventured into the Surrey hills twice in that same period. Most of my training was made up of: (i) 150 base commuting miles a week (with between 5-20 miles added on every now and again, including some 20-mile through-and-off sessions with clubmates); (ii) weekend training rides whenever I could fit them in - only did 12 rides over 30 miles; (iii) two or three 40-mile rides with Jon around the local Park, averaging around 22mph; and (iv) turbo sessions, some of which I did in direct sunlight or next to the radiator to try to get used to the heat. I did very little specific hill-work. The local Park contains some bumps and the head/cross winds can be an absolute bugger, so we just concentrated on riding hard for periods between one to two hours.
10. Top-tube bags. Can be very useful, but also a royal PITA when climbing out of the saddle (they may graze the inside of your knee/bit just above that), so practice using one on long rides where yo umight get out of the saddle to see how you get on.
11. Gearing: I rode with a 50/34 and 12/25 both years. A 27 would have been very useful last year, but the 25 was enough this year. If in doubt, take a bail-out gear. However, try not to go into this too early.
12. Clothing: I used arm-warmers and a gilet for the descent off the Galibier, stripping off gradually as I descended the Lautaret, but I took all manner of warm clothing with me in my kit bag, just in case...FCN 2-4.
"What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
"It stays down, Daddy."
"Exactly."0 -
Great post cjcp. Really useful, especially for those of us doing the La Marmotte for the first time.
Re: Turbo sessions. How do you cope with it? I find 15 mins of high intensity on the turbo a mind numbingly boring experience but at the same time, quite exhaustive. Using the turbo seems to give you a far better workout than riding on the roads...0 -
No probs. I was apprehensive last year as I'd not ridden in the Alps before. I was apprehensive this year because I had to go faster.
Re turbo sessions: I used the iPod and the fact that I didn't want to be in the state I was up ADH last year as motivation (see my point above about re systems failure!). I bought a speedo which allowed me to measure speed and distance on the back wheel, so I had a target for certain sessions e.g. 25 mile TTs.
It's also worth trying two sessions in one day to try to replicate the intensity of two climbs. I did nearly 3.5 hrs in one day once by doing 30 mins then just under 3 hrs. Not my idea of fun, but the weather and family commitments gave me no choices. My 25m TT sessions were probably the best, but I didn't do enough high-cadence sessions.FCN 2-4.
"What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
"It stays down, Daddy."
"Exactly."0 -
Hey cjcp,
Thanks for this. The forum has been down for a while so haven't had the chance to respond.
In addition to your training regime, did you have any particular structured or controlled eating pattern (esp food) when training for the La Marmotte? If so, how many months?
I'm trying to piece together a training plan so I'm properly prepared.
Thanks0
