Wiggins - Dark Horse
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Lofkvist is a disappointment, think this will be his last chance. Who was the final Sky rider left on the front before Froome? Was it Zandio? I think that the hills Wiggo has done well on suggest that he is definately capable of a Tour podium in the future as they have been more 'French' style climbs and it certainly looks like he could have been high up this year.0
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Froome is still 2nd on GC. The obvious way to look at yesterday is that they fried Froome for Wiggins. But another way is to say that they improved from 1st and 3rd to 1st and 2nd. That causes problems for everyone else.FJS wrote:No, but Sky had a unique tactical advantage of working with two riders high up the GC, and they're throwing that away now.
It was Possoni. Lofkvist did OK yesterday, just earlier and hence less telegenically. Generally I suspect you're right though that he's underperforming. The weird thing about domestiques is that only the team themselves can really gauge if they are performing or not. TV doesn't tell the story, and no-one comments on it, so we're in the dark.Pross wrote:Lofkvist is a disappointment, think this will be his last chance. Who was the final Sky rider left on the front before Froome? Was it Zandio? I0 -
Lofkvist has apparently signed another year with Sky, but to me he's been the biggest let down for them over the last two years if you look at the main leaders. I think many expected him to grow into a guy that could TT and do well in the short stage races, but it hasn't really happened for him, he's not looked that great on the climbs or in the TTs so not sure what the future holds for him really."I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)0
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I only caught the last 30K or so yesterday - saw Possoni pacing them up the hill, but Froome seemed to fall out the back without having first put in any work for Wiggins - did Froome put any efforts in for Wiggins' benefit?0
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Froome did alot of work on the front for Wiggins, yes.0
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[quote="FJS"]No, but Sky had a unique tactical advantage of working with two riders high up the GC, and they're throwing that away now. Both Wiggins and Froome are in a group of 10 or so riders still with a chance to win the Vuelta, and having 2 riders would be a huge advantage in the last week.
Maqnagement didn't really have a choice though. Prioritising Wiggins is logical, and he needs a steady pace up a mountain. Deciding to let other teams do the work or let the pace slump would have been very dangerous. It is a result of a relatively weak team though; Lovkist was originally recruited as GC promise and TdF mountain support - if there is a tough conversation to be had that's where it is[/quote]
Nothing unique in it at all. Three teams have 2 riders in the top ten.
Froome isn't good enough to win it, so they've got him working for Wiggins.
I don't think Wiggins will win it either, but stranger things have happened.0 -
Who would have thought you would expect to see Wiggins towing the group along in a mountain top finish. Whether he has the beans to win it. Still think its fantastic seeing him mix it up with the big guys. Whatever happens in the next few days. It's fair to say Wiggins has has a fantastic season.0
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FJS wrote:No, but Sky had a unique tactical advantage of working with two riders high up the GC, and they're throwing that away now.
It was interesting to see what Sky would do. It does seem a shame to sacrifice Froome but on the other hand, the team have been decisive and not dithered around this idea of potentially having two winning riders a la Schleck brothers.
You can't have your cake and eat it. 1st and 21st is a more satisfying result than 2nd and 3rd.
Froome is still in a very strong position which gives the team leverage but there is absolutely no doubt that Wiggins is no.1 (and rightfully so).0 -
Has Froome been sacrificed or are Sky in a unque position of having a top ten contender who can go with any likely break, sit on and take over the jersey if such a break isn't reeled in?0
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It's tough to know what else the team could have done. They needed a fast, steady pace to not only suit Wiggins and Froome, but also to stop Rodriguez and others from attacking over the top. When it was only Froome and Wiggins left who was going to chase down Mollema or others when they attacked? It would have been crazy to have Wiggins doing that job instead of the far less proven Froome.0
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Going to get interesting now as yesterday Wiggo was clearly trying to get rid of Fusalgong, so he looks to have done that but Nibali still looks a threat so think Liquigas will have to ride a bit with sky to protect Nibali. Dont think the like of Jrod and small climbers will gain enough to close gap,think the winner will come from top 5.
The teams willkeep pace high enough like yesterday where Jrod only gaind about 7 seconds for a big big effort he made in last couple of K.0 -
oldwelshman wrote:Going to get interesting now as yesterday Wiggo was clearly trying to get rid of Fusalgong, so he looks to have done that but Nibali still looks a threat so think Liquigas will have to ride a bit with sky to protect Nibali. Dont think the like of Jrod and small climbers will gain enough to close gap,think the winner will come from top 5.
The teams willkeep pace high enough like yesterday where Jrod only gaind about 7 seconds for a big big effort he made in last couple of K.
Fuglsang is currently 19 seconds behind Wigginns.
Get real.0 -
Get real? What do you mean? I just meant he wanted to distance him to get the jersey yesterday. Fygslang did not look that strong yesterday although he did a very good TT. I think Nibali looks the biggest threat. Time will tell I guess.
Do you think Fugaslang and his team look strong enough? Liquigas still look strong.0 -
If Fuglsang is still in the top 10 at the end of the Vuelta I would be very surprised.0
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Niballi is 11 seconds behind.
Fuglsang a further 8 seconds behind, he has hardly been "got rid of" at approx half distance gone.0 -
Why are people saying Froome has been sacrificed? He only lost 20 odd seconds and is still in 2nd place. If Wiggo has a bad day Sky still have a back up.0
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ffs read my post, when I said "got rid of" I meant to get the leaders jersy, which Wiggo did.fredmac wrote:Niballi is 11 seconds behind.
Fuglsang a further 8 seconds behind, he has hardly been "got rid of" at approx half distance gone.
Still think Fugslang not strong enough to win overall.0 -
Having looked through all the remaining stages for the first time I do think Wiggins will lose the jersey although possibly finish on the podium just from losing a few seconds here and there on the steep finishes. I had thought that after Sunday the bulk of the climbing was finished but there's still one or two steep finishes. He may need to try to get a gap on some of the moutain stages with flat finishes.0
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Who looks more likely to overtake Wiggo now?
Nibali @ 10 secs
Mollema @ 36secs
J-Rod @ 2m56?
Or someone else?http://www.snookcycling.wordpress.com - Reports on Cingles du Mont Ventoux, Alpe D'Huez, Galibier, Izoard, Tourmalet, Paris-Roubaix Sportive & Tour of Flanders Sportive, Amstel Gold Xperience, Vosges, C2C, WOTR routes....0 -
I'd be more wary of Kessiakoff than Mollema. He won on a steep (OK, it was fairly short) finish to Kitzbüheler Horn in the Tour of Austria earlier this year. that's not to say he can do it in a gt against a stronger field, but successful history on steep slopes is not a common attribute.0
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Who is going to do this though? Nibali and Molema look most dangerous and they have not looked any better than WIggo currently and I would think WIggo may get better as race goes on. Nibali is always strong and aggressive.Pross wrote:Having looked through all the remaining stages for the first time I do think Wiggins will lose the jersey although possibly finish on the podium just from losing a few seconds here and there on the steep finishes. I had thought that after Sunday the bulk of the climbing was finished but there's still one or two steep finishes. He may need to try to get a gap on some of the moutain stages with flat finishes.
I cant see the climbers 3 mions behind making that time up an Wiggo seems to have done ok on the mountain finishes so far so I think he has a great chance and he seems very motivated.
Hopefully Frome recovers a bit as he still has chance of high placing, but Sky could do with some help in remaining stages. I still think Liquigas may assist as they have to keep Nibali in contention also so this could work for sky.MAybe Astana also.
At least it keeps interest going
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I was thinking that myself shortly after that post. Also, why does everyone say Wiggins isn't any good on the steep stuff? Up until 2009 he didn't cope well with any climbs, this year his climbing is the best it has been and other than some Giro stages last season when he was riding badly I can't recall seeing him on any steep big mountains since he decided to concentrate on stage races. I think there is a big difference to not liking the short, steep climbs that suit an explosive rider (like those won by J Rod in this Vuelta) and long climbs with seriously steep sections such as the Angliru which are arguably too hard to ride aggressively on. I believe the Angliru slackens off slightly after the steepest section so there is a chance for riders to diesel their way back if anyone does attack on the steepest ramp.0
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Pross wrote:Having looked through all the remaining stages for the first time I do think Wiggins will lose the jersey although possibly finish on the podium just from losing a few seconds here and there on the steep finishes. I had thought that after Sunday the bulk of the climbing was finished but there's still one or two steep finishes. He may need to try to get a gap on some of the moutain stages with flat finishes.
The problem for Wiggins is that he's leaked time on stages to Nibali, Kessiakoff and Mollema where you wouldnt have expected him to, mainly because of bad positioning/fear of crashing: a few seconds yesterday to all 3; 20+ seconds on stage 6 on that descent to Nibali; time to Mollema and Kesiakoff on the ramp at the end of Stage 8. He might also have expected to be about 60 seconds better off from the TTs. Where he's gained time on his rivals it's been more about his (and Froome's) strength rather than any mistakes on the opposition's part.
Leaving aside the possibility that Sunday could change everything, the evidence suggests that Wiggins is likely to lose time somewhere along the way to Nibali, Kessiakoff and Mollema so he's going to have to gain time somewhere if he's going to hold on.0 -
If Sky had ridden a decent TTT then Wiggins lead at the moment would be about 50 seconds, still easily lost if he has a bad day on The Angliru but not such a small margin that you have to worry about the odd couple of seconds here and there (like yesterdays stage)."I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)0
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The last 3km on Saturday looks more or less as tough as the last 3km on the Angliru. The Angliru "flattens" (and it's a relative term) in the last km. Heart says Wiggo, Head says Nibali. Would love to be wrong though.0
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Rocksteadyeddie wrote:The last 3km on Saturday looks more or less as tough as the last 3km on the Angliru. The Angliru "flattens" (and it's a relative term) in the last km. Heart says Wiggo, Head says Nibali. Would love to be wrong though.
There are not many of the contenders including Wiggo that will be feeling at home on this baby....
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=alto+d ... 24&bih=609 :shock:
Suddenly spectators/nutters :roll:0 -
Big day today then. Hope Wiggo can hang on, but really I have no idea what to expect. Final climb is definitely within his capabilities if he still has the form from last week, but the San Lorenzo coming before it makes me nervous. Especially if Wiggins is still as nervous about his descending as he has been all Vuelta.
Froome should go up the road with any of the fringe contenders that attack early. Make the other teams work.0 -
Turfle wrote:Big day today then. Hope Wiggo can hang on, but really I have no idea what to expect. Final climb is definitely within his capabilities if he still has the form from last week, but the San Lorenzo coming before it makes me nervous. Especially if Wiggins is still as nervous about his descending as he has been all Vuelta.
Froome should go up the road with any of the fringe contenders that attack early. Make the other teams work.
Jacques Anquetil the first five times winner of the TDF was fundemantally like Wiggo a TT man turned Grand Tour rider and he used to win by hanging on to the opposition when the parcours were not his speciality and taking time out of them in the TTs. Yesterday Wiggo didn't police them as well as he should have and it ended up with a few frights. I still think that team TT may come back to haunt him, I hope not.
Like in a lot of sports it's the ones that make the least number of mistakes that often win.
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Agree with a lot of the above, as it stands at the minute then I would be putting money on Nibali to overhaul Wiggins at somepoint. However I wouldn't bet against Wiggins hanging on for a podium. If that was to happen would it be all bad, a Brit on the podium of a GC, especially considering his training and conditioning was focussed on the TdF where the parcours probably favoured him more than the Vuelta. The guy was having an op only 7 weeks ago, I know some people believe that second (or third) is nowhere for Wiggins and Team Sky but these were the nah sayers that a few months ago had written off Wiggins ever doing anything on a Grand Tour.0
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Podium would be a fantastic result.
As for the upcoming climbs, who of us really predicted Wiggins to look like one of, it not THE strongest climber on the previous three MTF stages?0
