Wiggins - Dark Horse
Comments
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LeicesterLad wrote:Turfle wrote:He's still a newcomer to contending in big stage races, and to be fair he made the MTF pretty darn exciting on Sunday. If he wins the Vuelta on the back of racing like that there' s no way it will have been a dull GT.
Well ill hold you to that, if he wins the Vuelta in similar fashion, ill concede defeat. But as it stands, to me, Wiggins just doesn't have that something that the really REALLY good riders have, that spark, that whatever it is. He's just much of a muchness. Obviously alot of you on here think he's the dogs Bollucks and fair play to you, like i said each to their own.
Indurain was a "really REALLY good rider" but I don't remember seeing much spark in his Tour victories, what I remember was watching a metronome beating out a rhythm that wore opponents down, certainly not the panache of Pantani say. Does that mean that Pantani was really REALLY good and Indurain not? Both were really REALLY good riders, Indurain one of the best in history.0 -
LeicesterLad wrote:Turfle wrote:He's still a newcomer to contending in big stage races, and to be fair he made the MTF pretty darn exciting on Sunday. If he wins the Vuelta on the back of racing like that there' s no way it will have been a dull GT.
Well ill hold you to that, if he wins the Vuelta in similar fashion, ill concede defeat. But as it stands, to me, Wiggins just doesn't have that something that the really REALLY good riders have, that spark, that whatever it is. He's just much of a muchness. Obviously alot of you on here think he's the dogs Bollucks and fair play to you, like i said each to their own.
Indurain was a "really REALLY good rider" but I don't remember seeing much spark in his Tour victories, what I remember was watching a metronome beating out a rhythm that wore opponents down, certainly not the panache of Pantani say. Does that mean that Pantani was really REALLY good and Indurain not? Both were really REALLY good riders, Indurain one of the best in history.0 -
Just out of interest, and you may have stated this elsewhere, did you find this years TdF boring? Would it have been less boring if Cadel hadn't won?LeicesterLad wrote:i cannot put him alongside the GT winners of this world. He isn't one, and the day he is, it will be a very boring tour.
Surely it's the racing and not the name of the winner that determines how exciting a race is.0 -
I'm honestly staggered by the negativity surrounding our key stars. Brad/Cav in the main.
I'm sorry - but saying Brad isn't a truly successful road cyclist is at bit too much. Blasphemy!! He isn't the best in the world, may never be - but he can genuinely tell his kids he was truly successful. How can this be denied?
Personally, I think his previous tour placing could have been bettered this year - but we'll never know.
My take on Team Sky is that it's huge connection to British Cycling, means that it should be recognised and respected with that in mind. Would they get more support from UK cogniscenti if main sponsor wasn't Sky Coporation? I think so. Problem is - they need the big money - so there you have it.0 -
yourpaceormine wrote:LeicesterLad wrote:Turfle wrote:He's still a newcomer to contending in big stage races, and to be fair he made the MTF pretty darn exciting on Sunday. If he wins the Vuelta on the back of racing like that there' s no way it will have been a dull GT.
Well ill hold you to that, if he wins the Vuelta in similar fashion, ill concede defeat. But as it stands, to me, Wiggins just doesn't have that something that the really REALLY good riders have, that spark, that whatever it is. He's just much of a muchness. Obviously alot of you on here think he's the dogs Bollucks and fair play to you, like i said each to their own.
Indurain was a "really REALLY good rider" but I don't remember seeing much spark in his Tour victories, what I remember was watching a metronome beating out a rhythm that wore opponents down, certainly not the panache of Pantani say. Does that mean that Pantani was really REALLY good and Indurain not? Both were really REALLY good riders, Indurain one of the best in history.
Calm down laddy, What's your problem, I don't like wiggins, he bores me, enough said really.
PS. Indurain actually won the tour.0 -
tremayne wrote:I'm honestly staggered by the negativity surrounding our key stars. Brad/Cav in the main.
I'm sorry - but saying Brad isn't a truly successful road cyclist is at bit too much. Blasphemy!! He isn't the best in the world, may never be - but he can genuinely tell his kids he was truly successful. How can this be denied?
Personally, I think his previous tour placing could have been bettered this year - but we'll never know.
My take on Team Sky is that it's huge connection to British Cycling, means that it should be recognised and respected with that in mind. Would they get more support from UK cogniscenti if main sponsor wasn't Sky Coporation? I think so. Problem is - they need the big money - so there you have it.
Don't get me wrong tremayne, I'm a huge Sky fan, and a Cav Fan, just not a wiggo fan.
And i don't mean to say Unsuccessful, im just comparing his Road Career to that of those he is measured against by many on here, namely the GT winners.0 -
thegibdog wrote:
Just out of interest, and you may have stated this elsewhere, did you find this years TdF boring? Would it have been less boring if Cadel hadn't won?LeicesterLad wrote:i cannot put him alongside the GT winners of this world. He isn't one, and the day he is, it will be a very boring tour.
Surely it's the racing and not the name of the winner that determines how exciting a race is.
Actually a great tour, with a worthy winner, Cadel's Grit and Determination to chase down as best as he could. I wouldn't expect to see Wiggins do the same in that situation.0 -
But if Wiggins does win a GT then it's likely he'll do it in a similar style to Evans, yet you say it would be a very boring tour if he did win...LeicesterLad wrote:thegibdog wrote:
Just out of interest, and you may have stated this elsewhere, did you find this years TdF boring? Would it have been less boring if Cadel hadn't won?LeicesterLad wrote:i cannot put him alongside the GT winners of this world. He isn't one, and the day he is, it will be a very boring tour.
Surely it's the racing and not the name of the winner that determines how exciting a race is.
Actually a great tour, with a worthy winner, Cadel's Grit and Determination to chase down as best as he could. I wouldn't expect to see Wiggins do the same in that situation.0 -
thegibdog wrote:
But if Wiggins does win a GT then it's likely he'll do it in a similar style to Evans, yet you say it would be a very boring tour if he did win...LeicesterLad wrote:thegibdog wrote:
Just out of interest, and you may have stated this elsewhere, did you find this years TdF boring? Would it have been less boring if Cadel hadn't won?LeicesterLad wrote:i cannot put him alongside the GT winners of this world. He isn't one, and the day he is, it will be a very boring tour.
Surely it's the racing and not the name of the winner that determines how exciting a race is.
Actually a great tour, with a worthy winner, Cadel's Grit and Determination to chase down as best as he could. I wouldn't expect to see Wiggins do the same in that situation.
I don't really get the Comparrison between Cadel and Wiggins to be honest, Yes neither of them are great attackers (although Cadel far more attacking than Wiggo in recent years) but the sheer determination that Cadel dragged himself through the tour with, chasing from the front, on his tod, out and out slogfest with no help. Nope sorry, can't see Wiggo matching that.0 -
And again, Wiggins showed plenty of grit and determination on Sunday. More than Jrod, Scarponi, Anton and so on.0
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Before this goes on any longer...
Why are people so concerned with the Opinion of a single forum poster all of a sudden?
And if it helps, i'm very sorry im clearly a very irrational human being and can't like every single member of the human race, as expected of me.0 -
Turfle wrote:And again, Wiggins showed plenty of grit and determination on Sunday. More than Jrod, Scarponi, Anton and so on.
And i agree with that, but it was not really quite the same situation as cadel and the tour, so we will see if he is doing the same come the end of this week, and hopefully he will pleasently surprise me and change my opinion of him. Perhaps he's on the turn, because its the first time he has showed riding capabilities like that, in my opinion.0 -
Indurain won his tours with the assistance of a prologue, a big TT before the mountains and a TT before the last day so he could let the pure climbers go in the knowledge that he had a buffer (I remember watching big mig win his tours, they were dull - hang on, was miguel the first 'big' rider that Phil'n'Paul lavished the epithet to?)
if Wiggins got a tour with Indurains parcours he would be more than happy
I think he's ridden well so far - sky need a domestique for him and froome now, wiggo and froome need to develop a tactic as it's a great opportunity"I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, how good is that"
--Jens Voight0 -
You are forgetting the coup de grace that Indurain always applied on the first mountain stage, where he'd eliminate all but one or two of his rivals, then mark them for the remaining mountain stages, a tactic he employed in all of his Tour victories.edhornby wrote:Indurain won his tours with the assistance of a prologue, a big TT before the mountains and a TT before the last day so he could let the pure climbers go in the knowledge that he had a buffer (I remember watching big mig win his tours, they were dull - hang on, was miguel the first 'big' rider that Phil'n'Paul lavished the epithet to?)0 -
LeicesterLad wrote:yourpaceormine wrote:LeicesterLad wrote:Turfle wrote:He's still a newcomer to contending in big stage races, and to be fair he made the MTF pretty darn exciting on Sunday. If he wins the Vuelta on the back of racing like that there' s no way it will have been a dull GT.
Well ill hold you to that, if he wins the Vuelta in similar fashion, ill concede defeat. But as it stands, to me, Wiggins just doesn't have that something that the really REALLY good riders have, that spark, that whatever it is. He's just much of a muchness. Obviously alot of you on here think he's the dogs Bollucks and fair play to you, like i said each to their own.
Indurain was a "really REALLY good rider" but I don't remember seeing much spark in his Tour victories, what I remember was watching a metronome beating out a rhythm that wore opponents down, certainly not the panache of Pantani say. Does that mean that Pantani was really REALLY good and Indurain not? Both were really REALLY good riders, Indurain one of the best in history.
Calm down laddy, What's your problem, I don't like wiggins, he bores me, enough said really.
PS. Indurain actually won the tour.
LL the only "Bollucks" around here is your drivel. I don't dislike Wiggins but I'm not his biggest fan,(yes I have met him, and I rode with him a couple of times before he raced for Cofidis). But I am impressed by his riding which is why I will defend his riding, methodical it may be but you certainly can't call him poor. 4th on a GC (clearly not a fluke), superb results this year and a very impressive ride (so far) in La Vuelta. A palmares to be proud of.0 -
yourpaceormine wrote:LeicesterLad wrote:yourpaceormine wrote:LeicesterLad wrote:Turfle wrote:He's still a newcomer to contending in big stage races, and to be fair he made the MTF pretty darn exciting on Sunday. If he wins the Vuelta on the back of racing like that there' s no way it will have been a dull GT.
Well ill hold you to that, if he wins the Vuelta in similar fashion, ill concede defeat. But as it stands, to me, Wiggins just doesn't have that something that the really REALLY good riders have, that spark, that whatever it is. He's just much of a muchness. Obviously alot of you on here think he's the dogs Bollucks and fair play to you, like i said each to their own.
Indurain was a "really REALLY good rider" but I don't remember seeing much spark in his Tour victories, what I remember was watching a metronome beating out a rhythm that wore opponents down, certainly not the panache of Pantani say. Does that mean that Pantani was really REALLY good and Indurain not? Both were really REALLY good riders, Indurain one of the best in history.
Calm down laddy, What's your problem, I don't like wiggins, he bores me, enough said really.
PS. Indurain actually won the tour.
LL the only "Bollucks" around here is your drivel. I don't dislike Wiggins but I'm not his biggest fan,(yes I have met him, and I rode with him a couple of times before he raced for Cofidis). But I am impressed by his riding which is why I will defend his riding, methodical it may be but you certainly can't call him poor. 4th on a GC (clearly not a fluke), superb results this year and a very impressive ride (so far) in La Vuelta. A palmares to be proud of.
Maybe, but I DON'T LIKE him, its not against the law, and i don't think he is up there with GT winners, what's so hard to understand?0 -
andyp wrote:
You are forgetting the coup de grace that Indurain always applied on the first mountain stage, where he'd eliminate all but one or two of his rivals, then mark them for the remaining mountain stages, a tactic he employed in all of his Tour victories.
Well said andyp. You know, I've been arguing this point for years and so many fans just seem to have no recollection of the absolute devastation he left behind him every single time on the first mountain stage.
Personally, I loved to watch it as it was a display of dominant athletic prowess. Effectively the race could be pretty much over after that but it wasn't Mig's fault.0 -
morstar wrote:andyp wrote:
You are forgetting the coup de grace that Indurain always applied on the first mountain stage, where he'd eliminate all but one or two of his rivals, then mark them for the remaining mountain stages, a tactic he employed in all of his Tour victories.
Well said andyp. You know, I've been arguing this point for years and so many fans just seem to have no recollection of the absolute devastation he left behind him every single time on the first mountain stage.
Personally, I loved to watch it as it was a display of dominant athletic prowess. Effectively the race could be pretty much over after that but it wasn't Mig's fault.
And thats why i deffinately do not consider Indurain and Wiggins, remotely in the same league.0 -
How was it that such a big guy like indurain could kick ass in the mountains ? He wasn't light and he was as aerodynamic as a brick when he time trialled ?0
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LeicesterLad wrote:And thats why i deffinately do not consider Indurain and Wiggins, remotely in the same league.
They aren't. Indurain won 7 GTs, Wiggins has yet to win one, and arguably never will.
But Wiggins still deserves respect for what he's achieved in his road career.0 -
cougie wrote:How was it that such a big guy like indurain could kick ass in the mountains ? He wasn't light and he was as aerodynamic as a brick when he time trialled ?
Merckx was a big guy too.
That said, in Indurain's case I think it's pretty obvious how he could go so fast uphill. It was all about the preparation.0 -
andyp wrote:LeicesterLad wrote:And thats why i deffinately do not consider Indurain and Wiggins, remotely in the same league.
They aren't. Indurain won 7 GTs, Wiggins has yet to win one, and arguably never will.
But Wiggins still deserves respect for what he's achieved in his road career.
Like ive said, im not disrespecting Wiggins, i merely hold the opinion that he is not as good as some people on here like to blast on about, and for saying that im apparently trying to be cool by no supporting the Brits, but i cannot force myself to like somebody, british or not, thats insane! I think Wiggins is a BETTER than average rider, but i cannot comprehend comparing him to some of the folk people like to believe he is as good as on here...0 -
I agree entirely, I wasn't suggesting you were being disrespectful so sorry if it came out like that.0
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andyp wrote:cougie wrote:How was it that such a big guy like indurain could kick ass in the mountains ? He wasn't light and he was as aerodynamic as a brick when he time trialled ?
Merckx was a big guy too.
That said, in Indurain's case I think it's pretty obvious how he could go so fast uphill. It was all about the preparation.
Indurain was a freak of nature,he had a huge lung capacity. He was born to be a sportsman.
He also,so i have been told ; ) used a triple crankset on occasions.0 -
He was also doped to the eyeballs on EPO.0
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LeicesterLad wrote:What Anton like at a TT? If he's half decent, Wiggins is screwed.
Cant believe you are asking this
Anton is terrible at TT0 -
Some people here i can just not work out.
For years we have been crying out for a cyclist to be at the front of the big tours.
And when we get them ..........THEY all get slagged down
Cav: is the fastest sprinter in the peloton...........but lots of you hate him
Wiggins: had a good finish in one tour de france,won the Dauphine,and bad luck forced him out of the tour this year......................but lots of you hate him.
I guess G Thomas and Froome are going to be hated aswell.
Here in Spain the attitude is completely different.0 -
I must day that i'm impressed that you guys kept this civil, wish more posters could enjoy a discussion even when the disagree fundamentally."I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)0
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I wasn't saying that Wiggins is as good a rider as Evans, just arguing that if he were to win a GT it wouldn't be boring just because he won it. Yes he rode a fairly boring race in the 2009 TdF (although I found it quite exciting seeing him up there with the leaders) but there's no way he could ride the same way if he were riding for the overall win, the other riders wouldn't let him. He would have to ride like Evans did and that would, as we saw in this years TdF, make for an exciting race.LeicesterLad wrote:
I don't really get the Comparrison between Cadel and Wiggins to be honest, Yes neither of them are great attackers (although Cadel far more attacking than Wiggo in recent years) but the sheer determination that Cadel dragged himself through the tour with, chasing from the front, on his tod, out and out slogfest with no help. Nope sorry, can't see Wiggo matching that.thegibdog wrote:
But if Wiggins does win a GT then it's likely he'll do it in a similar style to Evans, yet you say it would be a very boring tour if he did win...LeicesterLad wrote:
Actually a great tour, with a worthy winner, Cadel's Grit and Determination to chase down as best as he could. I wouldn't expect to see Wiggins do the same in that situation.thegibdog wrote:
Just out of interest, and you may have stated this elsewhere, did you find this years TdF boring? Would it have been less boring if Cadel hadn't won?LeicesterLad wrote:i cannot put him alongside the GT winners of this world. He isn't one, and the day he is, it will be a very boring tour.
Surely it's the racing and not the name of the winner that determines how exciting a race is.0
