Amy Winehouse Dead

fast as fupp

millymoose wrote:

Oh and by the way £16k a year and no 'adoring' fans who gulp down the cult of celebrity and have no airs and graces, they would lay down their liife for you and your right to slag them off.

I'm not slanting them off. I pointed out that they join the forces of their own free will.

My idea of a hero isn't someone carrying an assault rifle.

rodgers73

fast as fupp wrote:

Isn't joining the armed forces carrying a gun and accepting the risks of armed conflict a lifestyle choice?

We need to hear this viewpoint more often these days. While I have a lot of sympathy for the family of soldiers killed and wounded in action, and think they need a lot more support from the MoD, they did sign up for this sort of thing and we aren't living in a time of conscription.

This country is turning into the US with its hatred of anyone who doesnt worship the glorious dead.

MattC59

fast as fupp wrote:

millymoose wrote:

Oh and by the way £16k a year and no 'adoring' fans who gulp down the cult of celebrity and have no airs and graces, they would lay down their liife for you and your right to slag them off.

I'm not slanting them off. I pointed out that they join the forces of their own free will.

My idea of a hero isn't someone carrying an assault rifle.

To an extent, I'd agree. I think the term Hero is used far too often these days; but what about someone carrying an assault rifle who lays his life down to save his colleagues and fight for the freedom of others ?

millymoose

random man wrote:

fast as fupp wrote:

Isn't joining the armed forces carrying a gun and accepting the risks of armed conflict a lifestyle choice?

Yes, it is, and as hard as it sounds, for soldiers, dying in Afghanistan is an occupational hazard.
The music industry is awash with booze and drugs and a young artist who is catapaulted to stardom will have those temptations thrown at them.
Who are we to moralize about their behaviour unless we've experienced that for ourselves?

Yea it is an occupational hazard, however they do not ask to be glorified and nor do they earn shedloads or ask to be 'beatified' by a celebrity hungry audience. I merely make the point thta I would not tread in their shoes but they do it willingly knowing the risks.

As this is acycling forum, I will make the point that I did the H4H ride last year, and seeing guys take their legs legs off to pour out the sweat, was pretty sobering! and as far as I saw on 350 miles - no drugs!! (apart from gallons of bber!)

millymoose

#beer!

Frank the tank

I was saying AW was given every chance and then some, to turn herself around she chose not too. She wasted her life and her death was no suprise to me.

As for soldiers fighting in theatres of war, they do get killed and it wrenches at my heart every time I see them being "re-patriated" no comparison what-so-ever with Amy Shitehouse.

The Irony is a percentage of those soldiers who survive conflicts end up with a drug addiction and suffer the same fate as Winehouse,Jones, Joplin, Hendrix and smack-head around the corner.

Cleat Eastwood

fast as fupp wrote:

My idea of a hero isn't someone carrying an assault rifle.

Totally agree. Can't say theres anything heroic in brutalising a people and refusing the right for a citizen of a foreign land to cross his own threshold.

And can't say the loss of a z-list celebrity is any less shocking that an addict on the street.

To call any loss of life 'heroic' as in the case of a soldier or 'tragic' as in the case of a celebrity is as specious and vile a concept as ever devised; all life is valuable and all loss deeply felt by some one, somewhere and ultimately one day by you dear reader.
And, this thread needs more tits, cos AW did have a fine pair of knockers.

MattC59

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

And, this thread needs more tits, cos AW did have a fine pair of knockers.

Nothing is sacred in Cake Stop

rodgers73

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/soci ... 107254115/

MountainMonster

While I understand that soldiers choose to go into their line of work, which is a lifestyle choice, the word hero never came to mind. However their is one HUGE difference between crackhouse and soliders, in that being, that the soldiers accept low money in the pursuit of happiness of their land, be it sometimes morally wrong, and Winehouse was only searching for her happiness and richness. That, in and of itself, is worth something commending, willing to sacrifice oneself for the hope of making life back hope for YOUR people better.

If soldiers were to be making pure money doing what they do, it would be a different story, but they don't just look to make themselves rich. The use of the word hero is thrown around way too much these days, and not every soldier is a hero. In fact, maybe 1 out of 1,000 have any chance of being one.

rodgers73

I'm never sure of how soldiers in Afghanistan today are somehow defending me back here in the UK, or my "freedom".

I could buy that back in 2001 or 2 when the Taliban were in power and harbouring Bin Laden etc. But now? Really??

Ironically, when the Taliban were in power they restricted the flow of heroin to the UK by controlling poppy/opium production for a while. Which leads to the weird conclusion that heroic British soldiers defending the freedom of Afghan farmers to produce smack may have indirectly caused the death of Amy Winehouse.

Who do I get angry with now??? I'm confused.

Cleat Eastwood

rodgers73 wrote:

Who do I get angry with now??? I'm confused.

Blame you-know-who

rodgers73

Those damn dentists...

One Man And His Bike

rodgers73 wrote:

fast as fupp wrote:

Isn't joining the armed forces carrying a gun and accepting the risks of armed conflict a lifestyle choice?

We need to hear this viewpoint more often these days. While I have a lot of sympathy for the family of soldiers killed and wounded in action, and think they need a lot more support from the MoD, they did sign up for this sort of thing and we aren't living in a time of conscription.

This country is turning into the US with its hatred of anyone who doesnt worship the glorious dead.

Ahem, if I may just tweak your comment slightly.

It's the "glorious leaders" who are putting those troops in those places for their own reasons. For the most part they couldn't care less if you love them or want to burn flags because of the job they are doing, the troops go where they are told and make the best of a bad situation and funnily enough over time make a bad situation better regardless of what the f\/ckwits in power do or say.

The majority of Airmen and women, sailors & soldiers sign up for the reasons they do, mostly for a stable job with decent pay and good prospects for the future.

It's not about worshipping the glorious dead, it's about handing people who are prepared to place their lives on the line if required a little respect, they don't want their deaths to be wall to wall coverage for days on end, but some respect for doing their job and paying the ultimate price for trying to change a bad situation should be given and willingly so.

It's got nothing to do with the country or conflict either, that is a moot point, as most of the troops on the ground are doing the job to make lives better or secure a situation from escalating so it doesn't cause a worse situation further afield.

Never underestimate the skills and passion the British Forces have, while most people see it as a machine full of baby killers and Rambo wannabe's, you have to see it from inside to realise fully what an amazing thing it actually is, the Hearts and Minds thing is often given lip service by the media and people who cannot understand or appreciate the job the troops do.

Paulie W

Let's try this - it is perfectly possible to feel saddened by Amy Winehouse's death, at the loss of a young and talented woman, to feel great sympathy for her family AND to feel greatly saddened by the death of each and every soldier in Afghanistan, and of every child in Somalia. These emotions are not mutually exclusive - compassion, sympathy, sadness are not finite resources, at least not for normal people (although I suspect certain people on this thread are far from 'normal' functioning human beings given some of the vitriol they're spewing).

My gran had a useful saying (and I'm paraphrasing here): if you havent got anything nice to say shut the f*ck up!

random man

Paulie W wrote:

Let's try this - it is perfectly possible to feel saddened by Amy Winehouse's death, at the loss of a young and talented woman, to feel great sympathy for her family AND to feel greatly saddened by the death of each and every soldier in Afghanistan, and of every child in Somalia. These emotions are not mutually exclusive - compassion, sympathy, sadness are not finite resources, at least not for normal people (although I suspect certain people on this thread are far from 'normal' functioning human beings given some of the vitriol they're spewing).

My gran had a useful saying (and I'm paraphrasing here): if you havent got anything nice to say shut the f*ck up!

Well said.

MountainMonster

Paulie W wrote:

Let's try this - it is perfectly possible to feel saddened by Amy Winehouse's death, at the loss of a young and talented woman, to feel great sympathy for her family AND to feel greatly saddened by the death of each and every soldier in Afghanistan, and of every child in Somalia. These emotions are not mutually exclusive - compassion, sympathy, sadness are not finite resources, at least not for normal people (although I suspect certain people on this thread are far from 'normal' functioning human beings given some of the vitriol they're spewing).

My gran had a useful saying (and I'm paraphrasing here): if you havent got anything nice to say shut the f*ck up!

While it is well said, there is a huge difference between being compassionate and caring when a child is starving in Somalia, or mass murders are occuring in Norway, or when 1,000s of lives are lost in a civil conflict, and caring about a drug abusing lady. That's like saying when someone steals a pound from me i'm mad, but shouldn't be any madder when someone steals a huge amount of cash. There on 2 completely differnet levels.

Personally, if someone choose to do something which will most inevitably kill them, like Amy Winehouses drug use, and then they do die from it, why should people care so much. The only reason people even bat an eye lash at her death is because she was a pop star. Had she at least once made a good thing out of the people trying to help her it would be a different story, but she pushed the good people away. Personally if you have a problem, you are offered help on many occasions to quite the drugs, then die as a result of not accepting the help and continuing on with extreme drug use, you deserve no sympathy. The family, yes, and the ones who had tried to help, yes. But I won't be one bit saddened by it.

Aggieboy

Rupert Murdoch says he has been touched by the messages left on Amy's phone.

mask of sanity

Whilst I support a persons right to take drugs I find it very hard to have sympathy for someone who dies a drug related death when there are millions of people all around the world with terminal illnesses who would love the chance live a healthy life.

rodgers73

I've never said anything against the army or what they are doing. And thats my point - it isnt enough to just let them do their job and think its sad when one of them dies. They have to be labelled as "heros" and we cannot criticise them or question what they are doing in any way. Despite them being human beings who are just as capable of helping a village by building a school in Afghanistan, preventing an evil rebel army taking over in Sierras Leone, or f*cking up some Iraqi teenagers by beating them senseless, or raping local girls who live near the bases in Cyprus.

If it isnt logical to say that the moment one person puts on a uniform and volunteers to do a certain job they are blameless heroic paragons, why is it ok to say the moment someopne injects heroin or snorts coke that their death shouldnt be mourned or even marked in any way, despite the positivity they brought into the lives of millions by their work.

One Man And His Bike

rodgers73 wrote:

raping local girls who live near the bases in Cyprus.

Swings both ways sadly, I bet you never heard about some of the local Taxi drivers raping soldiers returning to camps after a night in Ayia Napa though did you. Highly doubt it, but it happened, more than once.

Sadly it only takes a few idiots to tarnish the good work and hard efforts done by the many, and let's face it, the papers love a good naughty soldier story and will beef it up out of all proportions and trust me I know of what I speak, I served in Cyprus for several years and at high tension times not long after 3 soldiers (Green Jackets) raped and murdered a Danish tour rep.

brin

Now she's finally been buried can we all take heed of Paulie W's grans advice? or as my gran (in a more conservative tone) would say......"shut the front door"

rodgers73

One Man And His Bike wrote:

rodgers73 wrote:

raping local girls who live near the bases in Cyprus.

Swings both ways sadly, I bet you never heard about some of the local Taxi drivers raping soldiers returning to camps after a night in Ayia Napa though did you. Highly doubt it, but it happened, more than once.

Sadly it only takes a few idiots to tarnish the good work and hard efforts done by the many, and let's face it, the papers love a good naughty soldier story and will beef it up out of all proportions and trust me I know of what I speak, I served in Cyprus for several years and at high tension times not long after 3 soldiers (Green Jackets) raped and murdered a Danish tour rep.

My point was that there are good and bad soldiers and sometimes soldiers do brave and laudible things and other times they do shitty nasty evil things.

Just like sometimes drug addicts rob old women to fund their habits and others they rise above their addiction and create music like she did.

Both demographics have good and bad in them so declaring that her death isn't as big a deal as a soldiers is silly really.

heavymental

MountainMonster wrote:

Thank god.

Lets not forget this was your first contribution to this thread back on page 1. :roll: Man of compassion you are.

I don't really want to get into the ins and outs of distribution of compassion but surely at the very basic level it's fine to express sadness at the death of someone whose music many people liked? It's sad. That's it. Those of us who felt sadness/shock/disappointment did so because we liked her music, not because we are slaves to 'the media'. This thread is here because people who liked her music wanted to address the loss. There is nothing wrong with that and it has nothing to do with other sad world events currently taking place.

If you want to address the ignorance of the general public then by all means do it somewhere else but don't just pile into someone's thread when they express sadness about something you think is trivial.

My dog died

What about all the other dogs that died in the Japanese Tsunami you fker!

We can't start making judgements on her lifestyle. I certainly wouldn't try to even make a judgement as all we know about her exploits have been most likely mis-reported by the most loathsome parts of the media who love to report a celebrity's spiralling decline. They hope then for either a happy recovery or a grisly death with lengthy blame games and grieving to keep the story rolling a bit further. All we know is that she had an eating disorder and a drugs/drink problem. We know nothing more about her life really.

Some of the language directed at this dead young woman on this thread has been disgusting. What troubles me is when I wonder what goes through someone's head when they call someone a whore or any of the other terms of pure venom that some people on here have employed? You do realise you're being hateful and that you're in the wrong don't you? Just take a deep breath and press the back arrow on your browser rather than wading in and throwing some muck about. Or as Paulie's nan might have said "just shut the fck up".

MattC59

rodgers73 wrote:

Just like sometimes drug addicts rob old women to fund their habits and others they rise above their addiction and create music like she did.

Except she didn't really did she !?

balthazar

Some descriptions of a young lady who died recently.
By somebody called "MountainMonster":

MountainMonster wrote:

Thank god.

(In reply to news of her death)

MountainMonster wrote:

a herion crazed whore alcaholic,

...a drug crazed lunatic,

...a crack whore

...Same with the majority of hookers, why should I feel sorry for them when they get AIDs and die.

...just another dead junkie

Collating those comments was one of the most unpleasant half-hours I've ever spent.

Fenred

^^If you find these posts offensive whatever happens DO NOT read the parallel thread on the MTB Crudcatcher section...You won't sleep again!!

Nobody seems to have noted that as a "pop star" that appealed to a variety of age groups she was particularly popular amongst young and impressionable people and her public displays were frankly an abomination!! Some example!!! :roll:
Conversley, perhaps her death will do some good and highlight to said impressionables the dangers of drug abuse.

rodgers73

MattC59 wrote:

rodgers73 wrote:

Just like sometimes drug addicts rob old women to fund their habits and others they rise above their addiction and create music like she did.

Except she didn't really did she !?

I know. I was making the point that "drug addict" doesn't automatically equal bad person.

Ben6899

balthazar wrote:

Some descriptions of a young lady who died recently.
By somebody called "MountainMonster":

MountainMonster wrote:

Thank god.

(In reply to news of her death)

MountainMonster wrote:

a herion crazed whore alcaholic,

...a drug crazed lunatic,

...a crack whore

...Same with the majority of hookers, why should I feel sorry for them when they get AIDs and die.

...just another dead junkie

Collating those comments was one of the most unpleasant half-hours I've ever spent.

Awful isn't it?

Posted by someone whose posts are generally quite sensible. It just shows what lies underneath with a lot of people if you dig or if the cover slips a bit.

Jez mon

MountainMonster wrote:

Paulie W wrote:

Let's try this - it is perfectly possible to feel saddened by Amy Winehouse's death, at the loss of a young and talented woman, to feel great sympathy for her family AND to feel greatly saddened by the death of each and every soldier in Afghanistan, and of every child in Somalia. These emotions are not mutually exclusive - compassion, sympathy, sadness are not finite resources, at least not for normal people (although I suspect certain people on this thread are far from 'normal' functioning human beings given some of the vitriol they're spewing).

My gran had a useful saying (and I'm paraphrasing here): if you havent got anything nice to say shut the f*ck up!

While it is well said, there is a huge difference between being compassionate and caring when a child is starving in Somalia, or mass murders are occuring in Norway, or when 1,000s of lives are lost in a civil conflict, and caring about a drug abusing lady. That's like saying when someone steals a pound from me i'm mad, but shouldn't be any madder when someone steals a huge amount of cash. There on 2 completely differnet levels.

You've kind of missed the point.

If someone takes a penny off me, I'm not noticeably poorer

If someone takes a tenner off me, I'm cheesed off, but it's not the end of the world

If someone hacks my bank account, liberates me of my balance, I am going to struggle to make ends meet.

If one drug addict dies, I feel sympathy for their friends and family

If one nation suffers a terrible atrocity at the hands of a crazed nutter, I feel sympathy for those effected.

Money is finite, emotions less so.