Is the Cav Sky move a done deal?

derbygrimpeur

andyp wrote:

A lead out man needs to be a decent sprinter, so Thomas would never have been earmarked for that role.

Thomas showed in this years tour that he's capable of it. On several occasions he actually rode away from EBH/peloton because he was going that hard. With Cav on his wheel barking instructions I reckon they'd be as good/better than Cav/Renshaw.

Cav's show he doesn't need a train. It just puts the odds even more in his favour.

lostboysaint

derbygrimpeur wrote:

Cav's show he doesn't need a train. It just puts the odds even more in his favour.

That's the most relevant comment. This whole "he needs the train" is complete bo11ocks. He's proven plenty of times that he's also the master of picking the best route through other people's lead-outs as well!

TheBigBean

He doesn't need a train to win a sprint, he needs a train to ensure it is a sprint. Tony Martin played a huge role in this.

Rick Chasey thinks Thomas will be a good replacement. Time will tell, but I think he will miss Martin more than any other HTC rider.

Monty Zoncolan

Part of me thinks it's a bit of a shame if Thomas ends up being Cav's lead out man but I would hope he'd get 'off the leash' a few times to do something for himself.

LeicesterLad

Monty Zoncolan wrote:

Part of me thinks it's a bit of a shame if Thomas ends up being Cav's lead out man but I would hope he'd get 'off the leash' a few times to do something for himself.

it would be a travesty if Thomas ended up as Cav's lead out man. Infact, i think when cav does go to sky, im going to start to rather dislike him for it.

cougie

I dont see the issue really. G will have plenty of chances to win his own races. Any time theres a hill - that pretty much rules Cav out of contention.

derbygrimpeur

TheBigBean wrote:

He doesn't need a train to win a sprint, he needs a train to ensure it is a sprint.

again, I'm not sure this is true. Alot is made of other teams not working to pull breakaways back, but that's because HTC can always be relied upon to do the work for the others. If HTC/Sky stopped being able/willing to hit the front so soon/all day, other teams with sprint ambitions would have to put some effort in too. If they didn't they'd have 0% chance of a win. At least if they pull the break back they've got 30% (Cav's defeat ratio?) chance of a win.

It's not going to work like that over just one stage, but if over the course of the season (made clear in early season stage races) it was clear that Sky weren't going to commit in the same way as HTC, other sprint teams would hit the front more.

LeicesterLad

cougie wrote:

I dont see the issue really. G will have plenty of chances to win his own races. Any time theres a hill - that pretty much rules Cav out of contention.

I think i just like the team dynamic as it is. Think there will be to much change when Cav comes in.

lostboysaint

derbygrimpeur wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

He doesn't need a train to win a sprint, he needs a train to ensure it is a sprint.

again, I'm not sure this is true. Alot is made of other teams not working to pull breakaways back, but that's because HTC can always be relied upon to do the work for the others. If HTC/Sky stopped being able/willing to hit the front so soon/all day, other teams with sprint ambitions would have to put some effort in too. If they didn't they'd have 0% chance of a win. At least if they pull the break back they've got 30% (Cav's defeat ratio?) chance of a win.

It's not going to work like that over just one stage, but if over the course of the season (made clear in early season stage races) it was clear that Sky weren't going to commit in the same way as HTC, other sprint teams would hit the front more.

Is the correct answer. Lead-out trains were about before HTC and Cav and will be again next season. Plenty of sprinters use other people's trains to get them into position.

I'm really not sure why this is so difficult to grasp when discussing Cav?!

FJS

I'm not sure much is going to change in terms of lead-out trains or the chase-work in the final 10 or 20 kms. Sky is already pretty active there, and often seems to be the lead-out train without a sprinter.

What could change the team dynamics is the other assistance needed. Yesterday Cav was dropped very early on a relatively minor hill in the Vuelta, and half HTC had to ride the last 30 or so kms with him, including Tony Martin. You can combine doing some work in a lead-out train and riding for your own chances, but not also all the domestique work that happens much earlier that Cav sometimes needs

LeicesterLad

FJS wrote:

I'm not sure much is going to change in terms of lead-out trains or the chase-work in the final 10 or 20 kms. Sky is already pretty active there, and often seems to be the lead-out train without a sprinter.

What could change the team dynamics is the other assistance needed. Yesterday Cav was dropped very early on a relatively minor hill in the Vuelta, and half HTC had to ride the last 30 or so kms with him, including Tony Martin. You can combine doing some work in a lead-out train and riding for your own chances, but not also all the domestique work that happens much earlier that Cav sometimes needs

+1 thought exactly the same thing when i saw Cav struggling yeserday.

edhornby

the reason for the conjecture is that highroad used to be left to do all the chasing, the other teams with a sprinter (lampre and garmin particularly) wouldn't do anything in the knowledge that highroad had all the eggs in the cav basket (i.e. no gc or climber or anyone in a break ever), which caused some consternation with the highroad riders

other question is whether cav is broadening him ambitions, and going to another team may help him to do new things

rick_chasey

I'm hoping sky will make a rubbish leadout so the sprints might be a little more interesting...

LeicesterLad

Rick Chasey wrote:

I'm hoping sky will make a rubbish leadout so the sprints might be a little more interesting...

Possibly the one good side to the demise of HTC. No more dull as feck sprint stages.

derbygrimpeur

why are they dull, because Cav wins so often? Don't think that's true, even stages where he has won have been exciting. e.g. where he beat Gilbert (St.5) and the two stages where he & Greipel were 1&2 + vice versa. The sprint can still be exciting even if the outcome is largely the same.

it seems some of you just have an axe to grind against Cav

LeicesterLad

derbygrimpeur wrote:

why are they dull, because Cav wins so often? Don't think that's true, even stages where he has won have been exciting. e.g. where he beat Gilbert (St.5) and the two stages where he & Greipel were 1&2 + vice versa. The sprint can still be exciting even if the outcome is largely the same.

it seems some of you just have an axe to grind against Cav

Actually No, i quite like Cav as it happens, But just feel the sprints have become a little predictable, and would be nice to see things get a bit of a shake-up.

rick_chasey

His sprints are boring because a) there is no tension and b) HTC take such a tight hold on the front.

It's much more fun when it's a sh!t fight where no-one really takes charge - like the first sprint of the Tour when Farrar won - that was an interesting sprint - one you can play over and over before you've taken in all that happened.

Cav's wins often aren't like that.

Not that he should care, but from a fans perspective, it's not so fun.

derbygrimpeur

I'm a Liverpool fan. IF (massive if) they won every game it would be no less exciting for me than if they win the occasional game.

"from a fans perspective" - I don't know whether that it is evenly a commonly held view. Certainly not so much so that you can claim that. If he was winning every sprint by a country mile then maybe, but he doesn't. I certainly find them good to watch and actually quite enjoy seeing HTC taking over the front of the peloton. I find it interesting to see how other teams try and mix things up. Your entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't mean it's fact.

TheBigBean

lostboysaint wrote:

derbygrimpeur wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

He doesn't need a train to win a sprint, he needs a train to ensure it is a sprint.

again, I'm not sure this is true. Alot is made of other teams not working to pull breakaways back, but that's because HTC can always be relied upon to do the work for the others. If HTC/Sky stopped being able/willing to hit the front so soon/all day, other teams with sprint ambitions would have to put some effort in too. If they didn't they'd have 0% chance of a win. At least if they pull the break back they've got 30% (Cav's defeat ratio?) chance of a win.

It's not going to work like that over just one stage, but if over the course of the season (made clear in early season stage races) it was clear that Sky weren't going to commit in the same way as HTC, other sprint teams would hit the front more.

Is the correct answer. Lead-out trains were about before HTC and Cav and will be again next season. Plenty of sprinters use other people's trains to get them into position.

I'm really not sure why this is so difficult to grasp when discussing Cav?!

If there isn't a dominant sprinter with a dominant team it doesn't always end in a sprint, such as Vino on the Champs-Élysées in 2005, or Cancellera doing the same in one stage. Plus, for many years it was not guaranteed that the breakway would be caught. Sometimes even completely flat stages would end with a breakaway. Yes other teams pitch in to do some of the work, but rarely as successfully as one fully committed team.

derbygrimpeur

Not sure if this has been mentioned but been listening to the Real Peloton podcast from last week and they had a short interview with Wiggans. He was talking about Cav coming to Sky and also said "if he brings Eisel with him" which seemed more of a, "he is coming too" type statement. Also went on to say that as long as he had 3/4 climbers with him then he'd be fine. If next year's Tour is anything like this years then safest place to be in the peloton is the man in front of Cav. Also, Cav has asked Wiggans to ride the Worlds RR for him this year and Wiggans is obliging. Seems all is good between the two.

cornoyemade

derbygrimpeur wrote:

Not sure if this has been mentioned but been listening to the Real Peloton podcast from last week and they had a short interview with Wiggans. He was talking about Cav coming to Sky and also said "if he brings Eisel with him" which seemed more of a, "he is coming too" type statement. Also went on to say that as long as he had 3/4 climbers with him then he'd be fine. If next year's Tour is anything like this years then safest place to be in the peloton is the man in front of Cav. Also, Cav has asked Wiggans to ride the Worlds RR for him this year and Wiggans is obliging. Seems all is good between the two.

LOL. i would have to agree with that. Ask Heinrich Haussler and every rider who protestedd in the 2010 Tour De Suisse about that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wL7Phnf9eE

No_Ta_Doctor

cornoyemade wrote:

derbygrimpeur wrote:

Not sure if this has been mentioned but been listening to the Real Peloton podcast from last week and they had a short interview with Wiggans. He was talking about Cav coming to Sky and also said "if he brings Eisel with him" which seemed more of a, "he is coming too" type statement. Also went on to say that as long as he had 3/4 climbers with him then he'd be fine. If next year's Tour is anything like this years then safest place to be in the peloton is the man in front of Cav. Also, Cav has asked Wiggans to ride the Worlds RR for him this year and Wiggans is obliging. Seems all is good between the two.

LOL. i would have to agree with that. Ask Heinrich Haussler and every rider who protestedd in the 2010 Tour De Suisse about that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wL7Phnf9eE

Sprinter involved in crash shock. Look at the carnage Cav caused in the Vuelta yesterday..... without even being there. The man is clearly a menace.

iainf72

cornoyemade wrote:

LOL. i would have to agree with that. Ask Heinrich Haussler and every rider who protestedd in the 2010 Tour De Suisse about that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wL7Phnf9eE

[size=18]3/10[/size]

You failed to mention the spitting.

tailwindhome

^^^

He's a True Sociopath (TM)

ademort

Eisel to team SKY that,s official.
Ademort

phil s

ademort wrote:

Eisel to team SKY that,s official.
Ademort

Which part of the word "official" do you have trouble understanding. Has the news been announced officially by Team Sky? No.

ademort

phil s wrote:

ademort wrote:

Eisel to team SKY that,s official.
Ademort

Which part of the word "official" do you have trouble understanding. Has the news been announced officially by Team Sky? No.

It was announced on the Belgian sprts channel Sporza you can be sure that it,s true
Ademort

phil s

That's still not official, it's reported.

Rodrego Hernandez

It's official once it's signed.

RichN95.

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

It's official once it's signed.

Maybe, but it's not official to the general public until announced. Phil S is a lot better connected to Team Sky than the rest of us. He'll know what is 'official' and what is not.