Warning to all Canyon full suss owners

stubs

Toasty wrote:

The majority of full suss frames I've had have had the odd bit of cable rub, my Meta now has a small bit in that same area, quickly heli taped up, no problem (I actually went back and tidied it with nail polish too :P).

My Mojo used to be bad around the top of the seat tube, the routing was rubbish there, it relied on a bit of innertube holding the cables together. Big brand wise, I've owned a Pitch, FSR XC and Enduro, all required tape after a couple of rides and spotting rub marks.

Just tape it up and ride. This forum gets so overexcited about nothing everytime someone breaks a nail. 100 miles is more than ample to rub a hole through the paint.

Its not the cable rub that is the problem I was a bit worked up at first understandably but now I could care less on todays ride I smashed the left hand crank into a rock and put a good mark on it plus the front and rear rims both have lost a few chunks of anodising.

This thread was started with the sole intention of warning Canyon owners to check there hose routing and in this it has been succesful several owners have spotted and cured cable rub which could have got nasty. For some reason this has annoyed a lot of non Canyon owners who have no interest in the issue and lead to me getting quite a bit of abuse. Its a forum and I am a big boy now and I have got over my initial titty lip so thats not a problem but it has clouded the issue a bit.

There has been an awful lot of private messages going backwards and forwards on the issue and it has developed into something completely different. Nothing can be said on an open forum but it will probably all come out in the end. Canyon have a perfect opportunity to show what they are really made of and could come out of this smelling of genetically modified scented roses. If they drop the ball they could blow there UK business right out of the water they only have to look at how Commencal blew there market to see how not to do it.

I hope Canyon come good I have a lot of time for there bikes and would buy another at this time.

toasty

If they drop the ball they could blow there UK business right out of the water they only have to look at how Commencal blew there market to see how not to do it.

There's a hefty leap between frames having cable rub and frames cracking. This thread is full of people saying they're changing their bike choices based on the fact it potentially gets cable rub, just seems a bit bonkers.

In fact it's the way Commencal got totally shut down that prompted me to reply to this, people still avoid the brand based on internet scare mongering. The recent frames have been very solid, yet they've lost a ton of business, to the point where they've switched to a far smaller distributor next year. You won't see nearly as many about anymore.

Lapierre/Boardman came close, they both had loads of similar threads. It always seems to hit home hardest when the flavour of the week have issues, much like Canyon are this week.

To those upgrading from hardtails to full sus, it's a very common thing to look out for, regardless of brand.

sdalby

Checked mine today after reading this. It was routed over the BB but hadn't really put any marks on the finish (slight rubbing but couldn't detect anything when a ran my finger over it).

I have rerouted it under the BB but I'm not sure I like that for one reason, I have an RS reverb that was routed along the brake hose, which now doesn't reach and is just sort of floating around with nothing to be tied onto.

I'll try it for my next ride and see how it is, if it doesn't work I'll put the brake hose back over the BB and stick a Lizard Skin patch on the affected area.

stubs

Toasty wrote:

If they drop the ball they could blow there UK business right out of the water they only have to look at how Commencal blew there market to see how not to do it.

There's a hefty leap between frames having cable rub and frames cracking. This thread is full of people saying they're changing their bike choices based on the fact it potentially gets cable rub, just seems a bit bonkers.

Commencal didnt blow there market just because the bikes cracked. They blew it because they didnt react to the problem quick enough and ended up alienating there dealers. A company selling any kind of widget has to react so quickly, its not the problem with the widgets but the perception of the problem that is the trouble.

I dont know how many Commencals cracked probably not that many as proportion of sales but the perception was that all cracked. Its relatively simple to build a reputation, very simple to lose it and incredibly difficult to get that reputation back.

A company has basically one asset customer goodwill and you mess with it at your peril.

toasty

stubs wrote:

I dont know how many Commencals cracked probably not that many as proportion of sales but the perception was that all cracked. Its relatively simple to build a reputation, very simple to lose it and incredibly difficult to get that reputation back.

Indeed, sort of my point, Commencal are small foreign company having trouble reacting to warranty issue. Pretty much the same as Lapierre or Canyon.

The perception that all Commencals cracked comes from the internet threads spouting up, much like if 20 people had come on here, saying they had cable rub, everyone would have avoided the brand. My post wasn't aimed at you, just highlighting that cable rub really isn't a huge design flaw.

The lack of support is something else, these small brands build in batches, and quite often don't have masses of spares left over, especially when they strike it lucky with the press and sell out. Once again, exactly like Commencal, Lapierre and Boardman did.

stubs

Toasty wrote:

stubs wrote:

I dont know how many Commencals cracked probably not that many as proportion of sales but the perception was that all cracked. Its relatively simple to build a reputation, very simple to lose it and incredibly difficult to get that reputation back.

Indeed, sort of my point, Commencal are small foreign company having trouble reacting to warranty issue. Pretty much the same as Lapierre or Canyon.

The perception that all Commencals cracked comes from the internet threads spouting up, much like if 20 people had come on here, saying they had cable rub, everyone would have avoided the brand. My post wasn't aimed at you, just highlighting that cable rub really isn't a huge design flaw.

The lack of support is something else, these small brands build in batches, and quite often don't have masses of spares left over, especially when they strike it lucky with the press and sell out. Once again, exactly like Commencal, Lapierre and Boardman did.

Totally agree with you and a very good synopsis of the problems smallish companies suffer. Only thing is I wouldnt say Canyon are small they are probably one of the bigger players in the German market which must be getting on for 5 times the size of the UK market. You only have to go to the Black Forest on a sunny weekend to realise bike usage in Germany is a whole order of magnitude bigger than over here. We whinge about the car parks at trail centres getting crowded at weekends but in the Black Forest we would come across cafes with bikes parked 20 deep outside.

toasty

Yeah, I thought they were bigger too The physical stock numbers seem very small though, they literally list individual numbers of stock, maybe they have a separate pool for internet orders.

I can't help but wonder if the fact they sell direct makes them look bigger, their outlets sell a lot, but compared to a distributors coverage it's small? Brands like Commencal and Lapierre must have sent out a hell of a lot of frames to get the coverage of Europe they did. I see lots of Metas and Zestys about at trail centers too, loads at Mountain Mayhem as well, did see a good few Canyons this year too

supersonic

Personally I think Stubs has done a very noble deed by posting this, as preventing a problem before it happens will save alot of hassle in the future. Of course, Canyon need to sort out the routing or patch frames (plus sort out exisiting customers with problem). Can't understand why people are having a go at the OP.

But as many of us have said, this problem is not limited to just Canyon. I see it far too often, so I urge everyone to check their cables.

stubs

supersonic wrote:

Personally I think Stubs has done a very noble deed by posting this,

Thanks sonic do you take cash or cheques

AMcK

supersonic wrote:

Personally I think Stubs has done a very noble deed by posting this, as preventing a problem before it happens will save alot of hassle in the future.....Can't understand why people are having a go at the OP.

Absolutely.

I'm completely grateful to Stubs for making the effort to raise this on this forum - stopped mine from getting any worse, prevented my mate from having the same problem developing - as well as a few others on this thread, and brought the issue to Canyon's attention.

As for me - Cullen got back to me stating the hose should be routed under, with an offer to get that sorted and some compensation for the frame damage. Personally, I was happy with that response - I rode the BHF South Downs Way randonnee at the weekend, and the bike didn't put a foot wrong and was far more robust than I was.

I'd still recommend a Canyon bike to anyone, by the way. Just check the hose!

Welsh_Tom

stubs wrote:

....

stubs i see youi got the black one. so does hali tape stick ok?


p.s. thanks for posting about your problem.

stubs

Welsh_Tom wrote:

stubs wrote:

....

stubs i see youi got the black one. so does hali tape stick ok?

.

Yes it does you need to warm everything up with a hairdryer and press it hard to get it completely flat but take your time and it should be fine.

Growmac

I emailed Canyon about this and got a reply within 24 hours. They have only heard from one customer, I was the second, and they think that for most the routing over the top, as it is on both ours here, is fine. As long as the cable is not too tight, any issues should be cosmetic only.

That said, he did say that it should really be under the BB. I was given instructions on moving it, and if I wasn't happy he would be happy to arrange for Canyon to do it. I'm perfectly happy with that, and I'm loving the bike, so I'd still happily recommend Canyon.

Speckled Pants

Just checked mine and my cable runs down the bb, i have a slight bit of rub but i'll get a patch on that tomorrow.

Cheers for the thread and tom for pointing it out to me :P

stubs

Well in the end I sort of gave up with Canyon I just stopped caring. I was given 100 euro compensation which is nice but not what I was after.

I wanted Canyon to admit there was a problem, to apologise, promise to rectify the production line problem at the factory and to email all people who had bought a Canyon of a potential problem offering assistance to fix it. As Canyon have all owners email adresses that wouldnt have been a difficult thing to do.

None of the above will happen possibly because they dont give a crap possibly because they dont want to admit liability.

Would I still buy a Canyon Hell Yes would I buy it from Canyon Hell No. I thought Canyon had a golden opportunity to come out on top and it wouldnt have cost them much but been utterly priceless in terms of advertising.

So the bike 9 out of 10 (not keen on the DT rims) the company 4 out of 10 (could do a lot better)

stubs

The moral of the story I WILL BUY MY NEXT BIKE FROM A BLOODY SHOP

An expensive but valuable lesson learnt.

Mccraque

Interesting debate, this....

On the subject of Canyon....my friend just bought one too. Lovely bike, arrived very quickly and additionally he's had an issue with the shimano shifter - Canyon gave him the option of sorting it out for him, or giving him money to sort at his lbs. He chose the latter due to the speed of sorting locally - and is very very happy with the product and service from Canyon.

Brood

stubs wrote:

The moral of the story I WILL BUY MY NEXT BIKE FROM A BLOODY SHOP

An expensive but valuable lesson learnt.

Or buy from canyon but double check all potential 'rubbing' points (which we should probably all do anyway, even though most of us probably don't ...)

poppit

I've had a couple of issues with my AM 8.0 but they've both been promptly sorted out.

The rear tyre seemed to have a slight twist in its construction, not a big thing but I raised it with Canyon and they sent me a new one. The rear mech hanger bent and cracked after 2 rides, turns out one of the 3 screws holding it on was loose. I'd already got a spare with the bike which I used to keep me riding for a week, told Canyon about it, sent a few pics and they sent me a new one through the post.

Checked my cable, it is routed under the BB and hasn't rubbed so no problems there.

The moral of the story is if you do get a Canyon, check that everything is tight and where it should be before you ride it and periodically check it during and after the first few rides, kind of what you should do with any new bike IMHO.

To be honest, I'm not that bothered if anyone else buys a Canyon, I did and I'm over the moon with it, in some ways I'd sooner people didn't as I like riding something that few people have. My personal experience has been good, I've found it to be a great bike, Canyon bikes have won every test in the mags over the last few months and these have been tested by people who know a lot more about riding bikes and riding than I ever will.

BTW, I think its great that people have a forum to raise issues they find with their bikes which helps and informs everyone else, we just need to keep things in perspective a bit.

Fudgie

[b]stubs[/b] wrote:

Well in the end I sort of gave up with Canyon I just stopped caring. I was given 100 euro compensation which is nice but not what I was after..

Thanks for keeping us informed throughout this, stubs. It's equally helpful for those of us that have bought Canyons and those that are contemplating it. That's a very disappointing outcome, though. I know it's 'only' cable rub but it was caused by the hose being routed wrongly by the factory. As we've been saying throughout this thread: it's not a question of the damage; it's a question of how Canyon deal with it.

Bearing this in mind:

supersonic wrote:

TBH, Stubs is right. That would hole the frame.

I'm not sure that 100 euros compensation is an adequate response if there's a possibility that the frame has been weakened.

Customer satisfaction can only be judged in one way: whether the customer is satisfied. And in this case, stubs is clearly not.

Referring way back to traindriverrob's mystery AM 6.0 fault (which it still isn't my place to reveal , but hopefully looks like a one-off), I believe that after a long disagreement with Canyon over culpability they have now agreed a solution that is in excess of his expectations. So that's another satisfied customer, albeit exhausted from the struggle.

For myself, I've been lucky and have had no problems with my XC but am grateful to stubs for highlighting this problem and keeping us updated with the outcome.

Welsh_Tom

Hi guys, I got my AM 6.0 today after 7 week wait, The rear gear cable was over the bb, but I just relay it under it, lucky there was some slack.

The big problem was the front brake cable was miss layed around the head tube, I did not see this till I had inflated the forks, leaving the cable almost pulled out at both the lever and caliper

supersonic

Don't you fit the bars and/or stem yourself, or is it fully built and ready to go?

Northwind

Brake hose isn't mislayed, the fork's been spun once it was fitted... Final assembly error, ie, you did it.

Welsh_Tom

supersonic wrote:

Don't you fit the bars and/or stem yourself, or is it fully built and ready to go?

Its all done you just got the bolt the bars to the steam

supersonic

Yeah, you should have span the fork 360 before fitting the bars. Or 180 the right way - often when boxed the stem point backwards.

Welsh_Tom

supersonic wrote:

Yeah, you should have span the fork 360 before fitting the bars. Or 180 the right way - often when boxed the stem point backwards.

the stem was facing the right way, i guess a 360 would of fixxed it. i guess they just put it in the box the wrong way around

Anonymous

No, they didn't. You bolted the bars on without turning the forks properly.

Welsh_Tom

yeehaamcgee wrote:

No, they didn't. You bolted the bars on without turning the forks properly.

Why would they spin the fork before putting it in the box?

Northwind

Welsh_Tom wrote:

Why would they spin the fork before putting it in the box?

Makes it just slightly shorter with many forks.

Dick Scruttock

I have seen it all now :roll: