The Lance hits the fan...

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  • SpaceJunk
    SpaceJunk Posts: 1,157
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Anyone who still thinks Lance is not a hardcore doper, manipulator and liar...worrying.

    Not only is he a huge fraud in the sport, not only has he ruined and corrupted the careers of many others, he is also a fraud in the real World.

    FYI - I agree with you French Fighter (but I have been wrong in the past before).

    But surely, the evidence points to AC being no different to Lance. Correct?
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    I think it is safe to say that the wide varying, depth and amount of evidence against Lance is on a whole different level to any cyclist past or present.

    So in short, no, they are hardly comparable.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    frenchfighter wrote:
    I think it is safe to say that the wide varying, depth and amount of evidence against Lance is on a whole different level to any cyclist past or present.

    So in short, no, they are hardly comparable.

    One has a verified doping positive. The other doesn't.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    frenchfighter wrote:
    I think it is safe to say that the wide varying, depth and amount of evidence against Lance is on a whole different level to any cyclist past or present.

    So in short, no, they are hardly comparable.

    +1 (shock horror in agreement with Frenchie).

    Bertie has doped, but he hasn't milked his recovery from in his case the head op the way Lance has milked cancer, he hasn't been linked with pushing his whole team towards doping, and most importantly for him, he hasn't been linked with defrauding a government agency of millions of $.

    But then again, this is just the view of a chump ;)

    It does seem that for Lance the whole thing is now playing out in the mainstream American press in a much bigger way.

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnis ... Stories%29
  • Garry H
    Garry H Posts: 6,639
    This is quibbling over nothing. They are both the same, it's just that one was a lot better at it than the other. Now one has been caught red-handed and the other's legacy is slowly unwrangling. Hardly any point arguing over which one is the least corrupt.
  • alanjay
    alanjay Posts: 363
    Garry H wrote:
    This is quibbling over nothing. They are both the same, it's just that one was a lot better at it than the other. Now one has been caught red-handed and the other's legacy is slowly unwrangling. Hardly any point arguing over which one is the least corrupt.

    +1
  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    I disagree, if some of the claims about LA are true, for example the bribing of the UCI officials, then he's in a completely different class to Bertie. As things stand, if Bertie does a Valverde then I may change my view.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    dougzz wrote:
    I disagree, if some of the claims about LA are true, for example the bribing of the UCI officials, then he's in a completely different class to Bertie. As things stand, if Bertie does a Valverde then I may change my view.

    We have no idea what they get up to.

    Getting caught only means this stuff is in your body. How that stuff gets from the manufacturers to their blood stream is another matter. How they've avoided detection for so long, if indeed they have been, which we don't really know, is another as well.

    It's obviously big business.
    _
  • Garry H
    Garry H Posts: 6,639
    dougzz wrote:
    I disagree, if some of the claims about LA are true, for example the bribing of the UCI officials, then he's in a completely different class to Bertie. As things stand, if Bertie does a Valverde then I may change my view.

    Hmmm, maybe. But that would just make the UCI immoral. What would Bertie have said if Pat and co had said "gis $1000,000 and we'll make the whole thing go away"? As I said above, one is better at it than the other.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    frenchfighter wrote:
    I think it is safe to say that the wide varying, depth and amount of evidence against Lance is on a whole different level to any cyclist past or present.

    So in short, no, they are hardly comparable.

    The difference in the amount of evidence is mainly due to Armstrong being subjected to a far higher level of scrutiny (and that he's been around a lot longer). If David Walsh were to spend a year investigating Bertie, who knows what he might find.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Anyone who still thinks Lance is not a hardcore doper, manipulator and liar...worrying.

    Not only is he a huge fraud in the sport, not only has he ruined and corrupted the careers of many others, he is also a fraud in the real World.

    what a ridiculous nonsensical comment FF. LanceA has no +s..Berto does. You test + every time on this subject , no need for a counter analysis! Failed!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • Gazzaputt
    Gazzaputt Posts: 3,227
    frenchfighter wrote:
    I think it is safe to say that the wide varying, depth and amount of evidence against Lance is on a whole different level to any cyclist past or present.

    So in short, no, they are hardly comparable.

    Sorry Frenchie but a cheat is a cheat however they did it.

    I doubt Lance will be stripped of any his TDF wins but Bertie will certainly be.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    Gawd, I find myself in agreement with Lance's lads.
    That's 2 days on the trot.
    I must be ill. :P
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Do you want me to do a photo comparison of the two? Didn't think so as we all know who would win.

    Lance is going down the big slide lads, hold on to your horses.

    When he does, he is going to have a negative impact on millions of people which is terrible.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Lance is going down the big slide lads, hold on to your horses.

    So is Bert - it's a race to the bottom. Will Bert win with a Verbier-like ET performance, or will it be Lance with a dash of Hautacam surrealism?

    Place your bets, folks...
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • cajun_cyclist
    cajun_cyclist Posts: 493
    Yaroslav Popovych says what was reported by SI about the search of his home in Italy was not true, that there were no doping products found except for 15 pills cleared by the police used for cramps.

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/editions/fir ... ry-20-2011
    “It is also not true that the police found evidence of links between Armstrong and Dr Ferrari. That’s because the electronics expert who has been asked to study the contents of two laptops and two mobile phones has still to submit his report to the magistrate Benedetto Roberti.”

    Those are key points at least concerning Popovych, if this is so, how could SI mess this up? Not that I'm saying LA should sleep easier about this.
  • Cumulonimbus
    Cumulonimbus Posts: 1,730
    Well the second part just says that its not true because the final report hasnt been published yet - the people doing the investigation will know what a report says before it is finalised.

    The first bit sounds a more convincing rebuttal, maybe the pills are PEDs but he has dispensation of some sort. I would have thought that the SI article would have checked its sources thoroughly though. Be interesting to see what eventually comes out.
  • shinyhelmut
    shinyhelmut Posts: 1,364
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Do you want me to do a photo comparison of the two? Didn't think so as we all know who would win.

    Come on FF, there's no way Contador can look more stylish than this;

    armstrongpackage2.jpg
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Just because the report hasn't been submitted, doesn't mean they didn't find anything - this is the same circular argument as never tested positive (because he was taking something they couldn't detect).
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • inkyfingers
    inkyfingers Posts: 4,400
    If frenchie was on the Titanic, he would have played his violin till the bitter end.

    Assuming that LA eventually gets convicted, the only difference is that he got away with it for a lot longer, and that he will get in the press more as the whole world knows who he is. When Bertie gets busted it will be big news amongst cycling fans but for the rest of the world it will be a minor story...just another cheating cyclist.
    "I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    Pat has obviously been following this thread.
    Now, we all know he thinks Lance is wonderful for the sport.
    He has climbed off his fence, just in time to catch this debate:
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contado ... ys-mcquaid
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • shinyhelmut
    shinyhelmut Posts: 1,364
    inkyfingers wrote:
    .just another cheating cyclist.

    Ah but a stylish cheating cyclist. That's different. :lol:
  • Roscobob
    Roscobob Posts: 344
    ShinyHelmut wrote:
    inkyfingers wrote:
    .just another cheating cyclist.

    Ah but a stylish cheating cyclist. That's different. :lol:

    With panache :D
  • inkyfingers
    inkyfingers Posts: 4,400
    Roscobob wrote:
    ShinyHelmut wrote:
    inkyfingers wrote:
    .just another cheating cyclist.

    Ah but a stylish cheating cyclist. That's different. :lol:

    With panache :D

    who enters every race to win
    "I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)
  • donrhummy
    donrhummy Posts: 2,329
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    The Popovych bust, on the other hand, could hold enough substance to make an indictment stick.

    Not against Lance. The investigation only pertains to the time he was with US Postal. It's specifically because that was government money paying for the team.
  • donrhummy
    donrhummy Posts: 2,329
    RichN95 wrote:

    Clinical trial drugs are really tightly regulated, it would be extremely difficult for an outsider to get hold of them.
    ...

    It's not Boots that sells this stuff, it's people who, by definition, are not honest people, and sportsmen make pretty easy targets for someone to dupe.

    Exactly. Clinical trials don't just have drugs hanging around unaccounted for where they won't miss some of it. I *highly* doubt Lance was using HemAssist. I'm NOT saying he wasn't using EPO or some variant, just not HemAssist.
  • Garry H
    Garry H Posts: 6,639
    Roscobob wrote:
    ShinyHelmut wrote:
    inkyfingers wrote:
    .just another cheating cyclist.

    Ah but a stylish cheating cyclist. That's different. :lol:

    With panache :D

    7 Tour wins. Is that enough panache for you? :wink:
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    it's nice to see SI put these things out in the open but until we hear from the feds and the grand jury does any of this really mean anything ?
  • Garry H
    Garry H Posts: 6,639
    sherer wrote:
    it's nice to see SI put these things out in the open but until we hear from the feds and the grand jury does any of this really mean anything ?
    I think the fact that it'sSI that's puting this out means something in itself.
  • cajun_cyclist
    cajun_cyclist Posts: 493
    It's SI putting the story out and they've done very good investigative journalism and perhaps you might liken them to L'Equipe, but SI also does a swimsuit issue so I don't think they are absolute perfection.

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