The Lance hits the fan...

Bakunin

Here it is...

Have a nice morning.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm

Valy

tl;dr is the current understatement of the year.

disgruntledgoat

Is Popo being sanctioned for the juice SI say they found in his house?

Kléber

It's quite comprehensive, it's not just one story but several. Dodgy dealings with Catlin, high testosterone levels, Ferrari panicking about causing cancer, working with Ferrari in 2009, cupboards with dodgy things inside, and plenty more.

It'll be interesting to see how Armstrong replies. He's trying the "no comment" bit right now but got shirty when a journalist pushed him to reply.

iainf72

It's funny that was appears to have been editted out (from what I gather, I'm not saying it's true) is allegations of a personal nature (sex and drugs) as well as stuff about the charity.

"Dude, are you stupid?"

blazing_saddles

Catlin will have been a huge surprise for most, including the "experts".
Maybe it explain's LA's reaction to Iain's grilling? :P

On Catlin and the testosterone levels. It certainly could be a reason why Landis imploded.
Also a suggestion from NYVelocity:

'93 and '94 testosterone ratios seem to vindicate the Andreus, don't they? Testosterone was one of the drugs they said LA listed.

bipedal

So Lance's people are using the "old tired allegations from liars" line, but from what I can remember there is new stuff here, certainly in terms of detail, dates, specific substances, the Caitlin allegations, the continuation of the Ferrari link...

Now that legit journalists are really turning the knife (as opposed to just us "internet forum people") surely he has to sue *if* he's as innocent as he protests?

The other Velonation article about his lawyers turning to Balco's legal team to dredge dirt of Novitsky isn't very edifying either...

rick_chasey

That article makes it sound quite sinister!

I have to say, I'm not the biggest fan of doping issues - it only midly holds my interest - stories of Heamocratics and epistestosterone stuff gets quite dull - but that SI article was pretty exciting to read.

This might be a doping case that finally holds my interest, properly.

Gypsum_Fantastic

Good article

It seems to neatly summarise the case against him, it's nice to have it all in one place and not have to wade through the pages of arguments between those in the pro and anti Lance camps that litter the interweb.

DaveyL

Remember, folks. There's no "i" in "team".

But there is one in "Catlin". And only one.

Actually some of the media running with this might want to be careful what they say about Catlin. Unlike Armstrong, who only says he has credibility, Catlin actually does - and a huge reputation too.

It is not clear from the story, where "athlete codes" are mentioned, whether Catlin (or whoever was involved in the analysis) would have known who the athlete was. Oddly enough, protection of a specific athlete might be more worrying than a general apathy towards following up positives. And we need to remember we are viewing events of the early 90s through our 2011 attittudes to doping.

On the positive T/E ratios which could not be verified - it's surely difficult to judge this unless we have a feel for how many positive A samples don't come back positive on the B test - by definition, you don't normally hear about these. That would tell us how unusual this is.

Regarding all this stuff in general, it's quite odd that some people, like NY Velocity for example, seem to think they are in the middle of a PR war. Well, they probably are, and they think they are somehow part of some sort of crowdsourced prosecution team. The really bemusing thing is that they think the PR war counts. How did Floyd's PR war work out?

term1te

To me the most interesting part relates to the US False Claims Act. I hadn’t heard of that before. Are they implying the Landis could be in line for up to 12 million if the US gov feels it necessary, and is able, to recover the $40 million USPS sponsorship? I don’t recall the chronology of events, did Landis go public before he filled the whistle blowing lawsuit? Not that I’m suggesting anything but the desire for a clear conscience is behind all this.

iainf72

He filed the whistle blowing suit later, possibly at the request of the feds.

Monty Dog

Obviously Landis' intention is to use the 'whistleblower' suit as a means of paying back his Floyd Fund donations.
Wonders if there's a proven link between Weisel, USOC and UCI in terms of complicity? I suspect that a proportion of the Fed's case will focus on the funding of Tailwind and whether the executives were complicit in fraud too? The fact that many of them donated to Floyd kinda provides a circular irony.

DaveyL

I doubt there is a specific case of USOC and UCi being linked. Well, there may be, but the malaise was much more general than cycling back then, and even in recent history. We all know stories of US track and field athletes having positives overlooked.

rick_chasey

Is Landis exposed to FBI prosecution because of his lying about the doping?

If so, maybe he got snared by the feds and he struck a deal.

frenchfighter

Wiggins can always be called on to support his friend Lance.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins ... ade-public

Bakunin

When Landis came out, did the UCI ask the national federations to look into his allegations?

I remember that was true re: the Hog, but was it for Lance as well?. Will they ever enter the fray or does the fed investigation trump all.

I'm interested to see what the fall out will be for the UCI, if anything.

It is one thing to end the Lance myth, but it also says a great deal about the administration of the sport. Can anything positive happen there?

Monty Dog

We can speculate on conspiracy theories, but I expect the reality was that everyone knew that the various administration bodies were complicit in 'covering up' positive tests and some were better organised at managing it than others - a Sysmex machine here, or some girls'n'blow there - funded by prize money and bike auctions no doubt. It's unlikely that USOC were not aware of what Tyler was up to, but the gold medal was the priority.
Positives were more likely the consequence of lack of intelligence/notification, or the 'wrong guy' turning up to run the test?

Spiny_Norman

frenchfighter wrote:

Wiggins can always be called on to support his friend Lance.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins ... ade-public

Ha! Frenchie's horrified that someone could be even vaguely supportive (letting the courts do their job and even saying "innocent until proven guilty" - the horror) of a rider suspected of doping. Mr Kettle, there's a pot on line 2, something to do with you being black.

andyp

I was just thinking that!

For every Wiggins supporting Armstrong, there is a Frenchfighter supporting Contador!

frenchfighter

Only someone with ulterior motives supports the most blatant fraud in the World of sport.

DaveyL

frenchfighter wrote:

Only someone with ulterior motives supports the most blatant fraud in the World of sport.

Are we still talking about Bert?

afx237vi

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Is Popo being sanctioned for the juice SI say they found in his house?

That's the only thing that piqued my interest in the whole article tbh.

Gazzaputt

DaveyL wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Only someone with ulterior motives supports the most blatant fraud in the World of sport.

Are we still talking about Bert?

dilemna

I opened this thread thinking it would be about Lance finally snapping and whacking a fan ie supporter which would be weird. Instead it's nothing of the sort just more circumstantial and unsubstantiated allegations and accusations that he doped. Boring. :roll:

blazing_saddles

afx237vi wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Is Popo being sanctioned for the juice SI say they found in his house?

That's the only thing that piqued my interest in the whole article tbh.

+1
That's because it's the only thing that appears to be backed up by evidence of some form.
Popo may be required to fall on his sword.............or get pushed.

The rest is another "LA Confidential" type smear.

rick_chasey

Blazing Saddles wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Is Popo being sanctioned for the juice SI say they found in his house?

That's the only thing that piqued my interest in the whole article tbh.

+1
That's because it's the only thing that appears to be backed up by evidence of some form.
Popo may be required to fall on his sword.............or get pushed.

The rest is another "LA Confidential" type smear.

The difference is is that it's in Sports Illustrated.

afx237vi

Rick Chasey wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Is Popo being sanctioned for the juice SI say they found in his house?

That's the only thing that piqued my interest in the whole article tbh.

+1
That's because it's the only thing that appears to be backed up by evidence of some form.
Popo may be required to fall on his sword.............or get pushed.

The rest is another "LA Confidential" type smear.

The difference is is that it's in Sports Illustrated.

I guess. I was looking at the trending topics on Twitter last night and a lot of the tweets were along the lines of "I can't believe this stuff about Lance" or "I'd be so disappointed if this is true" etc etc.

So it's still surprising to some people, and that it shows that a big article in SI is more damaging because it reaches a much wider audience than anything that's ever written in the cycling press.

iainf72

afx237vi wrote:

So it's still surprising to some people, and that it shows that a big article in SI is more damaging because it reaches a much wider audience than anything that's ever written in the cycling press.

That's why people make a big deal about it being in WSJ or SI, because it's hitting "main street" rather than place Internet crazies hang out.

I see the authors have been on CNN today as well.

dave_1

iainf72 wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

So it's still surprising to some people, and that it shows that a big article in SI is more damaging because it reaches a much wider audience than anything that's ever written in the cycling press.

That's why people make a big deal about it being in WSJ or SI, because it's hitting "main street" rather than place Internet crazies hang out.

I see the authors have been on CNN today as well.

am surprised D Walsh doesn't sue for plagiarism..90% of the SI article gives a sense of deja vu..old news..I spent more time trying to find something I didn't already know. Still...it is interesting in places and maybe true. The Stephen Swart stuff..the testo results...anyone can say stuff, like you chumps do on here all the time, fill in the gaps...but try to PROVE IT!

rick_chasey

Dave_1 wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

So it's still surprising to some people, and that it shows that a big article in SI is more damaging because it reaches a much wider audience than anything that's ever written in the cycling press.

That's why people make a big deal about it being in WSJ or SI, because it's hitting "main street" rather than place Internet crazies hang out.

I see the authors have been on CNN today as well.

am surprised D Walsh doesn't sue for plagiarism..90% of the SI article gives a sense of deja vu..old news..I spent more time trying to find something I didn't already know. Still...it is interesting in places and maybe true. The Stephen Swart stuff..the testo results...anyone can say stuff, like you chumps do on here all the time, fill in the gaps...but try to PROVE IT!

Usually journalists are a little more discerning with what they write than internet folk.