Contador tests positive for Clenbuterol

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  • josame
    josame Posts: 1,143
    Blimey... posters worrying about other posters, what's the world coming to.
    'Do not compare your bike to others, for always there will be greater and lesser bikes'
  • Homer J
    Homer J Posts: 920
    Well FF is not posting anymore on this thread so it's time to pick on someone else.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    deejay wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    In any case I post because
    I like cycling and have sort of a morbid curiosity about what makes up a "real fan" in pro sports.
    And then you set about annoying the real Cycling Fans with barrow loads of BS.

    If you know it's BS, then it shouldn't bother you at all. On the other hand there is enough denial from people to tell me that I've struck a nerve.
  • secretsqirrel
    secretsqirrel Posts: 1,802
    Ahem!

    Chaps? (Carlton Kirby mode :wink: )

    This story on the BBC.... http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 413738.stm

    I need yo' dope experts to advise whether there is any parallels between the Toure and the Contador cases. I am not sure what is meant by 'specified substance' :oops:

    Interesting quote.......

    "It could be some kind of stimulant or dietary aid and that would tally with what I was told on Thursday night by sources close to Toure - who insists it was not deliberately performance enhancing or recreational.

    "Given that Toure is a devout Muslim and is also teetotal and the fact he is regarded as a model professional and one of the quiet men of the Premier League, it seems to add up."

    On TV news this morning, it was pretty much dismissed as anything untoward. :?
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    He took his wifes diet pills apparantly.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    josame wrote:
    Blimey... posters worrying about other posters, what's the world coming to.

    To be honest I'm not at all worried about other posters. I've said this many times, yet no one seems to be listening. I do it mostly because other people feel free to slam and badmouth riders, teams, organizations, etc. so I feel free to slam and badmouth them and hope to hit a nerve or two. Which I seem to do fairly often, judging by the loads of denial
    and outrage that come pouring in. It's actually fairly easy to do to someone when they are obcessed with a team or sport or celeb. It just takes a hint of saying that they are wrong and off the handle they come. Take FF for example. You can bearly even joke about AC without him flying into a rage, let alone express a non favorable view.
  • secretsqirrel
    secretsqirrel Posts: 1,802
    iainf72 wrote:
    He took his wifes diet pills apparantly.

    That's OK then.
  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    dennisn wrote:
    josame wrote:
    Blimey... posters worrying about other posters, what's the world coming to.

    To be honest I'm not at all worried about other posters. I've said this many times, yet no one seems to be listening. I do it mostly because other people feel free to slam and badmouth riders, teams, organizations, etc. so I feel free to slam and badmouth them and hope to hit a nerve or two. Which I seem to do fairly often, judging by the loads of denial
    and outrage that come pouring in. It's actually fairly easy to do to someone when they are obcessed with a team or sport or celeb. It just takes a hint of saying that they are wrong and off the handle they come. Take FF for example. You can bearly even joke about AC without him flying into a rage, let alone express a non favorable view.

    But Denis, and this is what I think irks many others too, you never address the specific points they raise. I think X behaved crap towards his team Y, because blah blah blah. You'll then reply with something like How can YOU say this, did YOU have a beer with X, do you know X. No, I thought NOT. On and on in this general vein, never addressing a specific point of opinion, just criticising people's right to an opinion. Yes, I have opinions on people I don't know, I base them on the person's public actions and statements, and not a little on my own whim of the moment. This is a forum for people to do that, and more specifically do so about the people and issues in Pro Cycling. <BAIT>Surely as an American you don't question the fundamental right to free speech?</BAIT> The bottom line to this is that surely the way this should work is if someone slams a team or a rider, you respond with reasons that their opinion on the issue is unfair because of ...... not just because they don't know the person or were not at the actual meeting they don't have the right to an opinion.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,176
    iainf72 wrote:
    He took his wifes diet pills apparantly.

    Shane Warne got a one year ban for doing the same thing.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • tarquin_foxglove
    tarquin_foxglove Posts: 554
    iainf72 wrote:
    He took his wifes diet pills apparantly.

    To lose fat & reduce unnecessary weight, certainly no performance advantage in that...
  • secretsqirrel
    secretsqirrel Posts: 1,802
    tarquin_foxglove wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    He took his wifes diet pills apparantly.

    To lose fat & reduce unnecessary weight, certainly no performance advantage in that...

    Doesn't sound deliberate either :wink:
  • andyrac
    andyrac Posts: 1,135
    Football doesn't have a 'doping problem', does it????? :wink:
    The cleanest of all sports........
    All Road/ Gravel: tbcWinter: tbcMTB: tbcRoad: tbc"Look at the time...." "he's fallen like an old lady on a cruise ship..."
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    AndyRAC wrote:
    Football doesn't have a 'doping problem', does it????? :wink:
    The cleanest of all sports........

    Not the first footballer this week to announce a positive test for that.


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011 ... oure-drugs
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • cajun_cyclist
    cajun_cyclist Posts: 493
    Moray Gub wrote:
    AndyRAC wrote:
    Football doesn't have a 'doping problem', does it????? :wink:
    The cleanest of all sports........

    Not the first footballer this week to announce a positive test for that.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011 ... oure-drugs

    It's a real thin line with weight loss drugs be it a cyclist or footballer. I guess if it is not a performance enhancer at the same time, a person can use it but I'd be afraid really to take anything, what's that stuff called "hoodia", perhaps there are some but from what I hear about it, not my thing while other pills like ephedrine are sort of a mixed bag, yes, it might quell hunger but can be good for performance too. I'm sure Clenbuterol could be used beneficially to lose weight. And about Hoodia anyway, they put all kinds of things into pills and the list of banned items I understand is very extensive, no telling what might be found.
    "He wants to control his weight a little bit because that's where he has some problems and he took the product of his wife," Wenger said.

    "It is a complete surprise because I had Kolo here for years. (Toure is) very honest living, clean life, always at home - a family man. I do not suspect him at all to have taken drugs to enhance his performances."

    "He was not cautious enough. I do not think there was a desire there to do something wrong and then hide it." http://www.soccerway.com/news/2011/Marc ... -troubles/
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,411
    AndyRAC wrote:
    Football doesn't have a 'doping problem', does it????? :wink:
    The cleanest of all sports........

    While I'm sure football does have a doping problem I doubt very much that Toure is a particularly good example of it. Looks more like naivety to me. If that's a genuine attempt to dope then it's pretty amateurish compared to blood transfusions etc.

    That's my view as an Arsenal fan, so maybe I'm biased, but in his time with us he earned the reputation for being conscientious, hard working, respectful and a whole host of other virtues that don't tend to sit very well alongside doping. He's got a bucketful of well deserved character references to go alongside it.
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  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,411
    cajun_cyclist wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    AndyRAC wrote:
    Football doesn't have a 'doping problem', does it????? :wink:
    The cleanest of all sports........

    Not the first footballer this week to announce a positive test for that.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011 ... oure-drugs

    It's a real thin line with weight loss drugs be it a cyclist or footballer. I guess if it is not a performance enhancer at the same time, a person can use it but I'd be afraid really to take anything, what's that stuff called "hoodia", perhaps there are some but from what I hear about it, not my thing while other pills like ephedrine are sort of a mixed bag, yes, it might quell hunger but can be good for performance too. I'm sure Clenbuterol could be used beneficially to lose weight. And about Hoodia anyway, they put all kinds of things into pills and the list of banned items I understand is very extensive, no telling what might be found.
    "He wants to control his weight a little bit because that's where he has some problems and he took the product of his wife," Wenger said.

    "It is a complete surprise because I had Kolo here for years. (Toure is) very honest living, clean life, always at home - a family man. I do not suspect him at all to have taken drugs to enhance his performances."

    "He was not cautious enough. I do not think there was a desire there to do something wrong and then hide it." http://www.soccerway.com/news/2011/Marc ... -troubles/

    I think there's a problem in that while I'm sure there is a doping problem in football (points at the Spanish...) it may be more isolated. I don't think there's anything like a "doping culture" as exists in some other sports (cycling included).

    I think a few major clubs probably have organised, systematic, doping (whether their players know it or not) and after that it's fairly random.

    The depth and breadth of knowledge about doping that exists in cycling isn't evident in football and drug tests are too infrequent to make footballers take strict liability all that seriously (Wenger once complained some of his players had gone 5 years without a test).

    So most footballers (not overly renowned for their intelligence anyway) probably don't bother to learn an awful lot about avoiding prohibited substances, and where they might accidentally be exposed to them.

    That's why Contador's claim that he'd never heard of clenbuterol rings hollow where you'd expect most professional footballers to know all the street names of recreational drugs but not to know HGH from nandrolone.
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  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    Toure wouldn't be my first suspect when looking for doping in football, and I say that as a Spurs fan. I suspect that if football at Premier league level has a drug problem, think Boonen rather than Contador.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    AndyRAC wrote:
    Football doesn't have a 'doping problem', does it????? :wink:
    The cleanest of all sports........

    While I'm sure football does have a doping problem I doubt very much that Toure is a particularly good example of it. Looks more like naivety to me. If that's a genuine attempt to dope then it's pretty amateurish compared to blood transfusions etc.

    That's my view as an Arsenal fan, so maybe I'm biased, but in his time with us he earned the reputation for being conscientious, hard working, respectful and a whole host of other virtues that don't tend to sit very well alongside doping. He's got a bucketful of well deserved character references to go alongside it.

    You could say LA , Contador and a host of others are also hard working, respectful and conscientious and as has been proven time and time again who you are and how you act has nothing to do with whether you dope or not
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,411
    dougzz wrote:
    Toure wouldn't be my first suspect when looking for doping in football, and I say that as a Spurs fan. I suspect that if football at Premier league level has a drug problem, think Boonen rather than Contador.

    :lol:
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  • stanislav
    stanislav Posts: 1,151
    dougzz wrote:
    Toure wouldn't be my first suspect when looking for doping in football, and I say that as a Spurs fan. I suspect that if football at Premier league level has a drug problem, think Boonen rather than Contador.

    One of your well known central defenders has had afew boonen moments,So drug testing in football leaves a lot to be desired.
    PTP winner 2015.
  • cajun_cyclist
    cajun_cyclist Posts: 493
    I consider the numbers involved too. Basic differences.

    You have hundreds of football players in England alone, a good amount of them playing at a high professional level. And then compare that to cycling or running, I would guess football is an endurance sport in its own right but viewed differently.

    I've looked up cases before under the governing anti-doping body in the UK and yes, when I looked, all sports imaginable had their users.
  • Cleat Eastwood
    Cleat Eastwood Posts: 7,508
    FWIW there was a player who was caught just before last years world cup and when asked if FIFA would take a strong stance on the matter a spokesman replied in the negative as there was "no culture of drug taking like in other sports".

    It seems officials/media see doping in other sports as an matter for individual morals whereas cycling has to deal with disentangling the sport from the money making, and now deeply entrenched, culture of chemical use before it can even begin to address the issues of personal responsibility, at least in the eyes of the media.
    The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
    momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.
  • Homer J
    Homer J Posts: 920
    ^ So what you're saying is that they just don't want to open a can of worms? Probably spot on.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,958
    To be fair to football though, they have been swift and decisive in their crackdown on snoods.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    stanislav wrote:
    dougzz wrote:
    Toure wouldn't be my first suspect when looking for doping in football, and I say that as a Spurs fan. I suspect that if football at Premier league level has a drug problem, think Boonen rather than Contador.

    One of your well known central defenders has had afew boonen moments,So drug testing in football leaves a lot to be desired.

    That's narrowed it down to about 6 possibles. Don't particularly doubt it but where's your evidence ;)
  • cajun_cyclist
    cajun_cyclist Posts: 493
    That's narrowed it down to about 6 possibles. Don't particularly doubt it but where's your evidence

    Zee evidence is missing a drug test, may be, if it is what I am thinking of, that is a bit of an isolated incident.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    They don't test for EPO or blood transfusions as they claim it is too expensive. If you don't look for things you won't find it.

    Juve had a team wide doping system in the 90s as have others and we know Puerto was linked to Real and Barca. The trouble is with more money come better lawyers so none of the bodies want to look into it properly.

    As long as your pee isn't flashing orange you can get away with almost anything
  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    I guess if you've not got problem with the public or press talking about it then you don't have a problem :roll: Money is a pathetic excuse in football, at elite level it's one sport that really can afford a proper testing program. Rightly or wrongly I'm not convinced it's widespread.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,411
    sherer wrote:
    They don't test for EPO or blood transfusions as they claim it is too expensive. If you don't look for things you won't find it.

    Juve had a team wide doping system in the 90s as have others and we know Puerto was linked to Real and Barca. The trouble is with more money come better lawyers so none of the bodies want to look into it properly.

    As long as your pee isn't flashing orange you can get away with almost anything

    I often wonder about what goes on in AC Milan's world famous Milan Lab. They were putting pensioners on the pitch and still getting results....

    Milan Lab was founded by Jean-Pierre Meersseman, a Belgian chiropractor who had previously been a team Doctor for the US Olympic team in LA '84.

    Unconnected fact re LA '84: that was where the US cyclists blood doped (wasn't illegal at the time). It was also where the US were accused of covering up positive tests on at least 34 American athletes.

    While we're on football: Edgar Davids, nandrolone while at Milan, Frank de Boer, nandrolone while at Barcelona, Pep Guardiola, nandrolone at Brescia (appealed and won)... Arsene Wenger notes "irregularities" in blood levels of players he got from Italy (Vieira? Henry?) but maybe puts it down to team doctors rather than the athletes themselves.

    It's impossible to believe that an industry with so much money at stake there isn't going to be doping - though looking at how the money works I can imagine that it's more about teams protecting boosting their assets than footballers themselves doing it.
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  • cajun_cyclist
    cajun_cyclist Posts: 493
    Right, above the gentleman mentioned Juventus and I know that was said before so some of this has of course been mentioned. My memory is refreshed when apparently there has been some video of Cannavaro with Juventus using a PED, For the record, Kimmage wrote Tony Cascarino's biography, it is a collaboration and Ful Time is known as being a tell all account so Tony did use a lot of cortisone and the like. Cascarino played for Marseilles, from what I remember, he did not dope with them but did say they did give out injections in the posterior before he got there. That is one reason why I think Kimmage fans should definitely read his other big book. To the famous German Player, Rudy Voeller's credit he refused to get an injection. That Marseilles team too, coincidentally is the one French team that won the Champions League and in what appears to be ignorance, the following year got severely penalised for trying to bribe a small team to lose a game. All of this is somewhat incendiary to say but it is in Kimmage's book Full Time on T. Cascarino. Interesting player, pain killers and the like and as we know, athletes such as Brett Favre have become addicted to pain killers.

    No tA Doctor wrote:
    sherer wrote:
    They don't test for EPO or blood transfusions as they claim it is too expensive. If you don't look for things you won't find it.

    Juve had a team wide doping system in the 90s as have others and we know Puerto was linked to Real and Barca. The trouble is with more money come better lawyers so none of the bodies want to look into it properly.

    As long as your pee isn't flashing orange you can get away with almost anything

    I often wonder about what goes on in AC Milan's world famous Milan Lab. They were putting pensioners on the pitch and still getting results....

    Milan Lab was founded by Jean-Pierre Meersseman, a Belgian chiropractor who had previously been a team Doctor for the US Olympic team in LA '84.

    Unconnected fact re LA '84: that was where the US cyclists blood doped (wasn't illegal at the time). It was also where the US were accused of covering up positive tests on at least 34 American athletes.

    While we're on football: Edgar Davids, nandrolone while at Milan, Frank de Boer, nandrolone while at Barcelona, Pep Guardiola, nandrolone at Brescia (appealed and won)... Arsene Wenger notes "irregularities" in blood levels of players he got from Italy (Vieira? Henry?) but maybe puts it down to team doctors rather than the athletes themselves.

    It's impossible to believe that an industry with so much money at stake there isn't going to be doping - though looking at how the money works I can imagine that it's more about teams protecting boosting their assets than footballers themselves doing it.

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