Contador tests positive for Clenbuterol
Comments
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And while we're at it, none of you are MPs, so no more discussing politics... no premier league footballers, so that's off limits too... in fact let's ban all internet discussion unless the poster can show an official Certificate of Personal Involvement.dennisn wrote:dougzz wrote:frenchfighter wrote:Shame you guys are on the hating side. Feel for you, lol.
I know I shouldn't bite, but enough is enough. Surely after reading all the info and all the posts you don't still think it's about hate? It's about science and facts, and a positive test for a banned substance. You like the guy, I get it. Yes he's been an exciting cyclist to watch, but maybe, just maybe that's because of factors outside natural ability. There has been no presentation of real evidence that the clen was ingested through food contamination. Strict liability. Therefore ban. It doesn't matter how he rides, how many of the peloton like him, or even how many photographs of him you have. He failed a dope test. End of. It's not hate, as was previously pointed out, what about all the people that like him but still think he doped? I notice you ducked that post.
I'm actually on FF's side on this one, sort of. You want him banned for doping. Well, what you WANT and / or THINK should happen didn't and you wishing it so is usless. You don't matter and neither do I or FF. AC wasn't cleared because FF wanted him to be.
No one, and I mean no one, asked our opinions. Don't think for a minute that the people who make those decisions care what you, or I or FF think. They did what they thought was right, at least let's hope so, and if they did the wrong thing, intentionally or unintentionally, it still doesn't matter. He's out there riding. Deal with it. Or better yet just forget about the whole thing.
It would save an awful lot of time, money and trouble, possibly even the universe.0 -
I think we should have a sweepstake. I give him 12 hours.bazbadger wrote:frenchfighter wrote:I'm done responding...
We both know that's not true.0 -
bazbadger wrote:frenchfighter wrote:I'm done responding...
We both know that's not true.
Does anyone remember the 'Love Is...' cartoons (they're still around*)?
Here's a slightly appropriate example:
FF, on the topic of Bertie always reminds me of those. 'Love is.... not acknowledging his faults'.
Every accused man deserves a defence (even on the internet), and FF is Bertie's. Let's remember that. I applaud him for it, but still disagree.
*(Trivia fact: The Love Is... cartoons where created by Kim Casali and are now done by her son Stefano, who I went to school with)Twitter: @RichN950 -
bompington wrote:
I think we should have a sweepstake. I give him 12 hours.bazbadger wrote:frenchfighter wrote:I'm done responding...
We both know that's not true.
I have a little more faith in FF than you do. I'm going to go for a full 24 hours. He's like me, hooked on the thrill of the fight and can't possibly stay away, despite claims to the contrary.0 -
Nice tidbit about those Love is cartoons, I had seen them but was not too familiar about them, here is one in colour.
http://www.ivahri.com/Naazim%20family%2 ... 201986.jpg And I just provide the link.0 -
Moving from the amusing to the faintly ridiculous, AC claims that Spain is to the forefront in anti-doping;
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contado ... ermination
Priceless0 -
dennisn wrote:dougzz wrote:frenchfighter wrote:Shame you guys are on the hating side. Feel for you, lol.
I know I shouldn't bite, but enough is enough. Surely after reading all the info and all the posts you don't still think it's about hate? It's about science and facts, and a positive test for a banned substance. You like the guy, I get it. Yes he's been an exciting cyclist to watch, but maybe, just maybe that's because of factors outside natural ability. There has been no presentation of real evidence that the clen was ingested through food contamination. Strict liability. Therefore ban. It doesn't matter how he rides, how many of the peloton like him, or even how many photographs of him you have. He failed a dope test. End of. It's not hate, as was previously pointed out, what about all the people that like him but still think he doped? I notice you ducked that post.
I'm actually on FF's side on this one, sort of. You want him banned for doping. Well, what you WANT and / or THINK should happen didn't and you wishing it so is usless. You don't matter and neither do I or FF. AC wasn't cleared because FF wanted him to be.
No one, and I mean no one, asked our opinions. Don't think for a minute that the people who make those decisions care what you, or I or FF think. They did what they thought was right, at least let's hope so, and if they did the wrong thing, intentionally or unintentionally, it still doesn't matter. He's out there riding. Deal with it. Or better yet just forget about the whole thing.
+1.0 -
bompington wrote:
And while we're at it, none of you are MPs, so no more discussing politics... no premier league footballers, so that's off limits too... in fact let's ban all internet discussion unless the poster can show an official Certificate of Personal Involvement.dennisn wrote:dougzz wrote:frenchfighter wrote:Shame you guys are on the hating side. Feel for you, lol.
I know I shouldn't bite, but enough is enough. Surely after reading all the info and all the posts you don't still think it's about hate? It's about science and facts, and a positive test for a banned substance. You like the guy, I get it. Yes he's been an exciting cyclist to watch, but maybe, just maybe that's because of factors outside natural ability. There has been no presentation of real evidence that the clen was ingested through food contamination. Strict liability. Therefore ban. It doesn't matter how he rides, how many of the peloton like him, or even how many photographs of him you have. He failed a dope test. End of. It's not hate, as was previously pointed out, what about all the people that like him but still think he doped? I notice you ducked that post.
I'm actually on FF's side on this one, sort of. You want him banned for doping. Well, what you WANT and / or THINK should happen didn't and you wishing it so is usless. You don't matter and neither do I or FF. AC wasn't cleared because FF wanted him to be.
No one, and I mean no one, asked our opinions. Don't think for a minute that the people who make those decisions care what you, or I or FF think. They did what they thought was right, at least let's hope so, and if they did the wrong thing, intentionally or unintentionally, it still doesn't matter. He's out there riding. Deal with it. Or better yet just forget about the whole thing.
It would save an awful lot of time, money and trouble, possibly even the universe.
I know what you're saying and you're right, it is only a discussion. However I have as much right to say something as you do. More than a few people on here get a little ugly, myself included. They want this or that bum banned for life for doping, they want OUR sport cleaned up to a pristine condition, and they seem to want the worst for the guys who win the most. As for me, having an attitude like that makes them worse than the riders they complain about and I don't mind telling them this. They complain about the riders, I complain about them. Serves them right.0 -
dennisn wrote:
I know what you're saying and you're right, it is only a discussion. However I have as much right to say something as you do. More than a few people on here get a little ugly, myself included. They want this or that bum banned for life for doping, they want OUR sport cleaned up to a pristine condition, and they seem to want the worst for the guys who win the most. As for me, having an attitude like that makes them worse than the riders they complain about and I don't mind telling them this. They complain about the riders, I complain about them. Serves them right.
For a man that doesn't think opinions matter you have a lot to say. Should I assume you don't think you're worth listening to?
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There is so much anger in British Society these days don't you think?
Must be the over crowding and the perception of under achievement that's doing it.
Cheer up you lot if you feel frustrated take comfort in the fact that some of the most miserable are those with wealth (of a sort) you have only to look at the so called celebs to realize that.
Ride your freedom giving bikes and enjoy life away from the 'Mall' you will be happier saving the money on so called cheer-me-up retail therapy which has led so many to so much debt.
Oh! And don't worry about Berty he ain't worried about you, relax go for a spin, be nice to one another, heaven knows the country needs it
. 0 -
Ron Stuart wrote:There is so much anger in British Society these days don't you think?
Must be the over crowding and the perception of under achievement that's doing it.
Cheer up you lot if you feel frustrated take comfort in the fact that some of the most miserable are those with wealth (of a sort) you have only to look at the so called celebs to realize that.
Ride your freedom giving bikes and enjoy life away from the 'Mall' you will be happier saving the money on so called cheer-me-up retail therapy which has led so many to so much debt.
Oh! And don't worry about Berty he ain't worried about you, relax go for a spin, be nice to one another, heaven knows the country needs it
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Shut up :P Saracen Tenet 3 - 2015 - Dead - Replaced with a Hack Frame
Voodoo Bizango - 2014 - Dead - Hit by a car
Vitus Sentier VRS - 20170 -
dougzz wrote:dennisn wrote:
I know what you're saying and you're right, it is only a discussion. However I have as much right to say something as you do. More than a few people on here get a little ugly, myself included. They want this or that bum banned for life for doping, they want OUR sport cleaned up to a pristine condition, and they seem to want the worst for the guys who win the most. As for me, having an attitude like that makes them worse than the riders they complain about and I don't mind telling them this. They complain about the riders, I complain about them. Serves them right.
For a man that doesn't think opinions matter you have a lot to say. Should I assume you don't think you're worth listening to?
I don't consider what I say worth listening to any more or less than the next guy. A lot of people tend to rag on AC, LA, and many others. I choose to rag on them. Where's the problem? :? :?0 -
prawny wrote:Ron Stuart wrote:There is so much anger in British Society these days don't you think?
Must be the over crowding and the perception of under achievement that's doing it.
Cheer up you lot if you feel frustrated take comfort in the fact that some of the most miserable are those with wealth (of a sort) you have only to look at the so called celebs to realize that.
Ride your freedom giving bikes and enjoy life away from the 'Mall' you will be happier saving the money on so called cheer-me-up retail therapy which has led so many to so much debt.
Oh! And don't worry about Berty he ain't worried about you, relax go for a spin, be nice to one another, heaven knows the country needs it
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Shut up :P
Ignorance is no excuse, it's the real thing.
:oops:0 -
dennisn wrote:
I don't consider what I say worth listening to any more or less than the next guy. A lot of people tend to rag on AC, LA, and many others. I choose to rag on them. Where's the problem? :? :?
No problem at all. I do find myself worrying that you feel you're making a deep point and expect people go "oh wow he's right, I don't care about positive drug tests once again making cycling look foolish" but I doubt you're that deluded.
Perhaps you should try watch a bit of cycling then you could actually have a discussion in here about it. That would be novel. Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
French Fighter, Dennisn and Barry Bonds united... what a dream team. This thread just gets better and better!0
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dennisn wrote:dougzz wrote:dennisn wrote:
I know what you're saying and you're right, it is only a discussion. However I have as much right to say something as you do. More than a few people on here get a little ugly, myself included. They want this or that bum banned for life for doping, they want OUR sport cleaned up to a pristine condition, and they seem to want the worst for the guys who win the most. As for me, having an attitude like that makes them worse than the riders they complain about and I don't mind telling them this. They complain about the riders, I complain about them. Serves them right.
For a man that doesn't think opinions matter you have a lot to say. Should I assume you don't think you're worth listening to?
I don't consider what I say worth listening to any more or less than the next guy. A lot of people tend to rag on AC, LA, and many others. I choose to rag on them. Where's the problem? :? :?
Well have you ever sat down and had a beer with any of us?Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
iainf72 wrote:dennisn wrote:
I don't consider what I say worth listening to any more or less than the next guy. A lot of people tend to rag on AC, LA, and many others. I choose to rag on them. Where's the problem? :? :?
No problem at all. I do find myself worrying that you feel you're making a deep point and expect people go "oh wow he's right, I don't care about positive drug tests once again making cycling look foolish" but I doubt you're that deluded.
Perhaps you should try watch a bit of cycling then you could actually have a discussion in here about it. That would be novel.
Aren't you, once again, telling me that because I don't live, eat, sleep Pro Cycling that I'm not allowed to comment? Remember, you're the one who has lots of criticism for Pro Cycling all the time, not me. I still enjoy it. Sorry about your luck, or so it would seem.
As for cycling looking foolish. You said that, not me. Almost seems that I have become the defender of Pro Cycling against people who have pretty much nothing but bad to say about it and everyone in it. Think what you want but if I was that discouraged with something I would just let it go and bow out of the sport.0 -
dennisn wrote:Aren't you, once again, telling me that because I don't live, eat, sleep Pro Cycling that I'm not allowed to comment? Remember, you're the one who has lots of criticism for Pro Cycling all the time, not me. I still enjoy it. Sorry about your luck, or so it would seem.
As for cycling looking foolish. You said that, not me. Almost seems that I have become the defender of Pro Cycling against people who have pretty much nothing but bad to say about it and everyone in it. Think what you want but if I was that discouraged with something I would just let it go and bow out of the sport.
My head just exploded a little bit after reading that.
I've seriously never seen you enter into a discussion about pro cycling, so the idea of you defending it is absolutely mind-boggling.0 -
dennisn
No wonder you have problems with people's perspective here.... You've pretty much created a straw man on every point you've responded to by interpreting (through, no doubt, a powerful confirmation bias) and adding to & embellishing the points you feel you want to respond to...
Shall we go through this:
"Aren't you, once again, telling me that because I don't live, eat, sleep Pro Cycling that I'm not allowed to comment?"
No, not at all. Where has anyone said you need to live, eat, sleep Pro Cycling to be allowed to comment? Go on, give me a single incidence.... Perhaps you've inferred something from Iain & are responding to what is, essentially, an internal dialogue... Or maybe you're deliberately mis-interpreting. Only you know: we've not gone out for beers with you...
"Remember, you're the one who has lots of criticism for Pro Cycling all the time, not me. I still enjoy it. Sorry about your luck, or so it would seem. "
Go on, link to some criticism. Better still, show me that "all the time" is even closing on something approximating accurate.
You can't.
This is a straw man. You then berate Iain for the failings of your projected straw man. I'm sure I'd hurt if someone's projected straw man of me looked marginally badly balanced, you know how to use argument to make folk feel dumb!
"As for cycling looking foolish. You said that, not me. Almost seems that I have become the defender of Pro Cycling against people who have pretty much nothing but bad to say about it and everyone in it"
When have you defended Pro Cycling? Go on, link it for me... You've defended individual riders, sure, but the entity? I'm fairly sure that you're telling us how you perceive yourself on these pages. & are you seriously contending that an organisation that claims to be seriously against something & spends huge amounts trying to get to this point doesn't look the slightest bit "foolish" when a really high profile person obviously moves in another direction. Then doesn't get sanctioned. Or is this another straw man?
"Think what you want but if I was that discouraged with something I would just let it go and bow out of the sport."
I loved this line, I really did....
If you had the views that you project on to someone else, which have no demonstrable basis in objective fact, you'd take a particular path, which would undermine the (real) actions of the (real) person you're addressing...
So, we can conclude that your imaginings should make Iain feel bad. Great argument! Loving it lots.
I read (yes, my interpretation) Iain's post as asking you to get involved in the wider discussion of pro cycling rather than limiting yourself to defending certain riders (badly). I would love to hear your views on a whole bunch of stuff that's going on in Pro Cycling just now, but, unfortunately, you're the only poster here who only posts on doping threads & then with an easily pre-determined point of view....
Seriously, join in, have fun. & try to answer actual arguments, rather than what you imagine folk are saying & you'll be a fantastically positive addition to these parts.0 -
afx237vi wrote:dennisn wrote:Aren't you, once again, telling me that because I don't live, eat, sleep Pro Cycling that I'm not allowed to comment? Remember, you're the one who has lots of criticism for Pro Cycling all the time, not me. I still enjoy it. Sorry about your luck, or so it would seem.
As for cycling looking foolish. You said that, not me. Almost seems that I have become the defender of Pro Cycling against people who have pretty much nothing but bad to say about it and everyone in it. Think what you want but if I was that discouraged with something I would just let it go and bow out of the sport.
My head just exploded a little bit after reading that.
I've seriously never seen you enter into a discussion about pro cycling, so the idea of you defending it is absolutely mind-boggling.
I'm betting I can find more than a few instances of yourself slamming various people and organizations involved in cycling. You're absolutely right, YOU are defending cycling, not me. Glad you cleared that up for me. :roll: :roll:
Sorry about your head though. 0 -
dennisn wrote:afx237vi wrote:dennisn wrote:Aren't you, once again, telling me that because I don't live, eat, sleep Pro Cycling that I'm not allowed to comment? Remember, you're the one who has lots of criticism for Pro Cycling all the time, not me. I still enjoy it. Sorry about your luck, or so it would seem.
As for cycling looking foolish. You said that, not me. Almost seems that I have become the defender of Pro Cycling against people who have pretty much nothing but bad to say about it and everyone in it. Think what you want but if I was that discouraged with something I would just let it go and bow out of the sport.
My head just exploded a little bit after reading that.
I've seriously never seen you enter into a discussion about pro cycling, so the idea of you defending it is absolutely mind-boggling.
I'm betting I can find more than a few instances of yourself slamming various people and organizations involved in cycling. You're absolutely right, YOU are defending cycling, not me. Glad you cleared that up for me. :roll: :roll:
Sorry about your head though.
I'm sure you could find examples of me saying lots of different things about lots of different riders and lots of different issues in all areas of the sport, both negative and positive. Funnily enough, that's kinda what the forum is for and that's why I post in it. Why do you post in it?0 -
It's like arguing with a clever 8 year old. Who's got a gun rack and a bottle of JD.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0
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dennisn wrote:iainf72 wrote:It's like arguing with a clever 8 year old. Who's got a gun rack and a bottle of JD.
Thanks for the upgrade to 8 years old. I was expecting worse.
Dennis. Just an observation here. But you only seem to post about other posters and their opinions. You never seem to post about cycling itself. Why is that?Twitter: @RichN950 -
afx237vi wrote:dennisn wrote:afx237vi wrote:dennisn wrote:Aren't you, once again, telling me that because I don't live, eat, sleep Pro Cycling that I'm not allowed to comment? Remember, you're the one who has lots of criticism for Pro Cycling all the time, not me. I still enjoy it. Sorry about your luck, or so it would seem.
As for cycling looking foolish. You said that, not me. Almost seems that I have become the defender of Pro Cycling against people who have pretty much nothing but bad to say about it and everyone in it. Think what you want but if I was that discouraged with something I would just let it go and bow out of the sport.
My head just exploded a little bit after reading that.
I've seriously never seen you enter into a discussion about pro cycling, so the idea of you defending it is absolutely mind-boggling.
I'm betting I can find more than a few instances of yourself slamming various people and organizations involved in cycling. You're absolutely right, YOU are defending cycling, not me. Glad you cleared that up for me. :roll: :roll:
Sorry about your head though.
I'm sure you could find examples of me saying lots of different things about lots of different riders and lots of different issues in all areas of the sport, both negative and positive. Funnily enough, that's kinda what the forum is for and that's why I post in it. Why do you post in it?
I agree. This is what a forum is for. I say something, you totally disagree and tell me so.
I come back ranting about whatever, you try and pick it apart. That sort of thing. Or is it the other way around? Hmmmmmmm, could be either way? In any case I post because
I like cycling and have sort of a morbid curiosity about what makes up a "real fan" in pro sports.0 -
RichN95 wrote:dennisn wrote:iainf72 wrote:It's like arguing with a clever 8 year old. Who's got a gun rack and a bottle of JD.
Thanks for the upgrade to 8 years old. I was expecting worse.
Dennis. Just an observation here. But you only seem to post about other posters and their opinions. You never seem to post about cycling itself. Why is that?
I generally disagree with posters who seem to want to put down Pro Cycling. Plenty of people here b*tching and moaning about this or that person, this or that team, this or that group and then claiming that they love cycling. I don't buy a word of it unless they "love to hate it". I definately don't buy their "concern for the health of the sport". So I write in and tell them I think they are "full of sh*t" and "don't have a clue what they are talking about". Actually quite mild words when I think of some of the comments others have deemed reasonable to post about various people and organizations in cycling.0 -
dennisn wrote:I generally disagree with posters who seem to want to put down Pro Cycling. Plenty of people here b*tching and moaning about this or that person, this or that team, this or that group and then claiming that they love cycling. I don't buy a word of it unless they "love to hate it". I definitely don't buy their "concern for the health of the sport". So I write in and tell them I think they are "full of sh*t" and "don't have a clue what they are talking about". Actually quite mild words when I think of some of the comments others have deemed reasonable to post about various people and organizations in cycling.
Sure Dennis. I realise that. The thing that puzzles me is that you never post anything about actual racing,. It's all reaction to other posters. I realise that time-zones play a part here but surely once in a while you would post about an actual race or an actual rider.Twitter: @RichN950 -
I agree with Rich except that Dennis posts a lot of twaddle about one particular rider.RichN95 wrote:dennisn wrote:I generally disagree with posters who seem to want to put down Pro Cycling. Plenty of people here b*tching and moaning about this or that person, this or that team, this or that group and then claiming that they love cycling. I don't buy a word of it unless they "love to hate it". I definitely don't buy their "concern for the health of the sport". So I write in and tell them I think they are "full of sh*t" and "don't have a clue what they are talking about". Actually quite mild words when I think of some of the comments others have deemed reasonable to post about various people and organizations in cycling.
Sure Dennis. I realise that. The thing that puzzles me is that you never post anything about actual racing,. It's all reaction to other posters. I realise that time-zones play a part here but surely once in a while you would post about an actual race or an actual rider.
Him and the young Elgin Gub.
Now, was anybody else out in the rain last Saturday in Belgium.Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
Think this sums it up
''Seems to be a pretty stupid thing to even argue about. The AC thing happened and it ended in a certain way. Get on with your lives :roll: :roll: .
Posted in a PTP thread by someone who doesn't... even... take... bloody... part.
If that's not trolling, I'm not sure what is.___________________
Strava is not Zen.0
