Lets have, why do people hate the public sector?

cee

DonDaddyD wrote:

"You've got the touch! You've got the pppooowwweeerrr"

I got the videotape for Christmas in either '86 or '87. Only thing I remember is that song.

I think I still actually have the tape!

DonDaddyD

I'm sure I have the tape and now own the DVD, cherished along Bugsy Malone, Little Shop of Horror, Hero and Breakdance.

PBo

DonDaddyD wrote:

I'm sure I have the tape and now own the DVD, cherished along Bugsy Malone, Little Shop of Horror, Hero and Breakdance.

Ha!

Why not replace your sig with
"You may as well quit, if you haven't got it!"

Could be a SCR insult!

DonDaddyD

So you wanna be a cyclist
Owning that big ring
Can you sprint like a Japanese bullet train
Tell me just one thing

Can you spin in a whirl like a humming bird's wing
If you need to (ooh thats fast!)
Can you dance and climb, can last in an attack when you need to?

Well, you might as well quit
If you haven't got it

So you wanna be a cyclist
Can you pass the test?
I can tell you've got it in you
I've trained the best

When you work and you sweat
And you bet that you train like a winner (zing!)
Then you near lose your mind
When you find that your boy has no stamina

So you might as well quit
If you haven't got it.

deptfordmarmoset

So, what are Kong and Jaws fighting about in the first place? We seem to have simply taken it for granted that there is a fight, but not why there is a fight. (This is probably just as true for the Private Sector monster and the Public Sector monster.)

davmaggs

DonDaddyD wrote:

davmaggs wrote:

DDD, I don't know how long you've been in the public sector but my advise would be not to stay in it too long. All organisations do to a certain degree institutionlise people over time and they become inflexible and they think that things work/or should work according to their experience.

Whilst this applies to all sectors the thing about the public sector is much of the work and the jobs are created by other demands from the public sector (or laws). In other words people are doing work because the workload is created by other PS staff. These roles aren't needed or wanted out in private companies. I know HR people who don't look at CVs from public sector people with too much time in roles that only make sense to other public sector staff as those people often become rigid, lack business skills and are used to work patterns (like the flexi time wheeze) or a working style that doesn't work outside the bubble of the public sector.

You have a point, but it is very singular in its perspective and largely depends where you are in the organisation and where you can go. If say you were speaking to a Director on £115,000 (whose job needs to exist) would you tell them their work is created by other staff and that they should get out? Would you be saying to a Director/Head/Manager of Business Development and Strategy (basically contract and writing business proposals, developing the organisation and planning the operationl strategy to expand the business within its market) on £40,000 - £80,000 that their Masters, professional qualifications, Degree, training and years of doing business to business contracting will be dismissed as not having business skills?

My view (based on my area of expertise, its different for others) if you only do your first 2-3 roles for 2-3yrs at the start of your career, develop your qualifications and try to continually move up the organisation demonstrating, learning new and utilising current skills along the way then I can't see any harm carving a career in the public sector.

If you were a administrator and did that for 5 years and then got another administrator role at the same level and did that for another 5 years then sure, you have a point. But even then the person may like being an administrator and there is nothing wrong with that.

Actually having dealt with a lot of C-level public sector people they don't have the same level of business skills as the same private sector rank. They've often come from mediocre ranks of private companies and escaped to the PS, or they've risen through the PS, or perhaps moved around pseudo PS-type organisations. They usually can't cut in in the private sector. The ones that are good leave the PS fairly quickly once they realise the culture.

By all means improve your CV by taking different jobs in the PS but unless you leave you will absorb a lot of the behaviours, cultures and ways of working without noticing and that will not be an asset to you.

If you don't want to believe a random internet poster then a top tip is do some interviews outside and use it to keep in touch with the trends. That's useful for any industry, but PS people will start to find quickly that PS-jargon and vague outcomes don't go down well.

DonDaddyD

davmaggs wrote:

Actually having dealt with a lot of C-level public sector people they don't have the same level of business skills as the same private sector rank. They've often come from mediocre ranks of private companies and escaped to the PS, or they've risen through the PS, or perhaps moved around pseudo PS-type organisations. They usually can't cut in in the private sector. The ones that are good leave the PS fairly quickly once they realise the culture.

By all means improve your CV by taking different jobs in the PS but unless you leave you will absorb a lot of the behaviours, cultures and ways of working without noticing and that will not be an asset to you.

If you don't want to believe a random internet poster then a top tip is do some interviews outside and use it to keep in touch with the trends. That's useful for any industry, but PS people will start to find quickly that PS-jargon and vague outcomes don't go down well.

Are you a recruitment consultant?

Well, I thank you for your opinion but frankly I quite like my job and career path and while I accept that the public sector (its a large sector with varying jobs and not all jobs police, firefighter, some teachershave a direct comparison in the private sector but are clearly needed) has its faults, but your stance smacks full of the notion that the private sector is somehow better.

It is not. It is different. There is a purpose for both. There are positives and negatives to be found in both.

Some jobs have transferable skills. Some jobs require skill and competentcies specific to each sector.

Furthermore some people actually don't mind and some may even want to work and develop a career in the public sector. That is no bad thing. It is a life choice subjective to the individual and I don't think anyone has the right to judge or deem what is better for that person.

So, yes, I thank you for taking the time to write and impart your advice but I don't fully take and never will accept the point.

greg66_tri_v2.0

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

So, what are Kong and Jaws fighting about in the first place?

Mighty Kong thinks that Campag is best, but Jaws is a Shimano fan...

deptfordmarmoset

Greg66 wrote:

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

So, what are Kong and Jaws fighting about in the first place?

Mighty Kong thinks that Campag is best, but Jaws is a Shimano fan...

Ah, this could go on for some time then. I think I'll just sit this one out ....

captain_chaos

Can't be bothered to read all 11 pages but how about this for the answer

<flame on>

Because the OP who is proud to work for the Public Sector, has seemingly spent between 10:41 and 5:44 today posting on this thread alone. He may of course be at home today, but the volume and timing of today's posts is no different to other so I am going to assume he's at work.

That's my Tax £'s being effectively used.... One wonders what he does and whether the job gets completed in an effective (time, cost, quality) way....

I work in the private sector. It would be acceptable to use the internet at lunch time and hence post on BR. During the rest of the day would be considered unacceptable and serious words would be had. Continued (ab)use in this way would potentially lead to disciplinary issues - abuse of Company resources (which the company has to pay for), unprofessional behaviour etc etc

<flame off>

rolf_f

davmaggs wrote:

Actually having dealt with a lot of C-level public sector people they don't have the same level of business skills as the same private sector rank. They've often come from mediocre ranks of private companies and escaped to the PS, or they've risen through the PS, or perhaps moved around pseudo PS-type organisations. They usually can't cut in in the private sector. The ones that are good leave the PS fairly quickly once they realise the culture.

Yes, and I've dealt with plenty of private sector people who will dump any crappily researched piece of junk on your desk and think they can charge 20 grand for it. Probably they couldn't cut it in the public sector. Except that that is bull. As are your comments above. There is crap in any organisation, public or private. Similarly, there is also good. Just as there are very efficiently run public sector organisations, there are very badly run private sector organisations (eg much of what the great City does). Sweeping meaningless generalisations might be acceptable in the private sector these days though........

jds_1981

Sounds like people are talking about the ultimate showdown (of ultimate destiny)

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/285267

(needs sound)

DonDaddyD

Captain Chaos wrote:

Can't be bothered to read all 11 pages but how about this for the answer

<flame on>

Because the OP who is proud to work for the Public Sector, has seemingly spent between 10:41 and 5:44 today posting on this thread alone. He may of course be at home today, but the volume and timing of today's posts is no different to other so I am going to assume he's at work.

That's my Tax £'s being effectively used.... One wonders what he does and whether the job gets completed in an effective (time, cost, quality) way....

I work in the private sector. It would be acceptable to use the internet at lunch time and hence post on BR. During the rest of the day would be considered unacceptable and serious words would be had. Continued (ab)use in this way would potentially lead to disciplinary issues - abuse of Company resources (which the company has to pay for), unprofessional behaviour etc etc

<flame off>

How and what I do with my time is my business. I'm tired of the accusations and the assumptions.

I'm getting sick of the personal attacks.

I also grow tired of people who seemingly feel compelled to take up a person issue with me.

They really aren't necessary.

I think you're rather patheic for stooping so low.

rolf_f

Why do people really hate the public sector? Because the Daily Mail tells them to. Most people don't have the knowledge to compare and contrast both public sector and private sector over a wide range of organisations so how can they make any personal judgement on it unless the Daily Mail does it for them?

tailwindhome

DonDaddyD wrote:

Captain Chaos wrote:

Can't be bothered to read all 11 pages but how about this for the answer

<flame on>

Because the OP who is proud to work for the Public Sector, has seemingly spent between 10:41 and 5:44 today posting on this thread alone. He may of course be at home today, but the volume and timing of today's posts is no different to other so I am going to assume he's at work.

That's my Tax £'s being effectively used.... One wonders what he does and whether the job gets completed in an effective (time, cost, quality) way....

I work in the private sector. It would be acceptable to use the internet at lunch time and hence post on BR. During the rest of the day would be considered unacceptable and serious words would be had. Continued (ab)use in this way would potentially lead to disciplinary issues - abuse of Company resources (which the company has to pay for), unprofessional behaviour etc etc

<flame off>

How and what I do with my time is my business. I'm tired of the accusations and the assumptions.

I'm getting sick of the personal attacks.

I also grow tired of people who seemingly feel compelled to take up a person issue with me.

They really aren't necessary.

I think you're rather patheic for stooping so low.

You really don't see any relevance in the context of THIS thread?

Really?

Clever Pun

DonDaddyD wrote:

How and what I do with my time is my business. I'm tired of the accusations and the assumptions.

I'm getting sick of the personal attacks.

I also grow tired of people who seemingly feel compelled to take up a person issue with me.

They really aren't necessary.

I think you're rather patheic for stooping so low.

You posted the question and you've defended yourself hence why it gets aimed at you

jimmypippa

On another forum with a lot of Americans, I have been in discussions about their healthcare system.

Until I started looking at the figures I wasn't aware that not only does the US spend more of its GDP on healthcare, but that it spends more of its taxes on healthcare than we do.

In 2007 the UK spent 8.4% of its GDP on healthcare of which 81.7% was state expenditure = 6.86% of GDP from taxes
The US spent 16% of GDP of which 45.4% was state expenditure = 7.264% of GDP from taxes

To me that is a good argument against the US model. Either the current version, or the transition version that is being implemented.

W1

DonDaddyD wrote:

Captain Chaos wrote:

Can't be bothered to read all 11 pages but how about this for the answer

<flame on>

Because the OP who is proud to work for the Public Sector, has seemingly spent between 10:41 and 5:44 today posting on this thread alone. He may of course be at home today, but the volume and timing of today's posts is no different to other so I am going to assume he's at work.

That's my Tax £'s being effectively used.... One wonders what he does and whether the job gets completed in an effective (time, cost, quality) way....

I work in the private sector. It would be acceptable to use the internet at lunch time and hence post on BR. During the rest of the day would be considered unacceptable and serious words would be had. Continued (ab)use in this way would potentially lead to disciplinary issues - abuse of Company resources (which the company has to pay for), unprofessional behaviour etc etc

<flame off>

How and what I do with my time is my business. I'm tired of the accusations and the assumptions.

I'm getting sick of the personal attacks.

I also grow tired of people who seemingly feel compelled to take up a person issue with me.

They really aren't necessary.

I think you're rather patheic for stooping so low.

Dodging the question again.

Why did you post this thread? Did you want us all to bow down and thank you for working in the public sector? Or did you actually want to hear what people's issues were?

Because if the latter, you've heard them - and you don't like the answers so you're throwing your toys out of the pram.

Of course it's taxpayers business what public sector workers do with their working time. Either you're sitting at home in your time (and if so, why not say so?) or you're sitting at work on my and other taxpayers time - and if so, it is our business.

Can you really not see that?

Maybe if you didn't post a thread where you knew that people would make comments you would take issue with you'd feel less agrieved.

Or maybe you're just an attention whore? Or maybe not? But if you don't ever answer the points put to you what else can readers do but make assumptions?

notsoblue

jimmypippa wrote:

On another forum with a lot of Americans, I have been in discussions about their healthcare system.

Until I started looking at the figures I wasn't aware that not only does the US spend more of its GDP on healthcare, but that it spends more of its taxes on healthcare than we do.

In 2007 the UK spent 8.4% of its GDP on healthcare of which 81.7% was state expenditure = 6.86% of GDP from taxes
The US spent 16% of GDP of which 45.4% was state expenditure = 7.264% of GDP from taxes

To me that is a good argument against the US model. Either the current version, or the transition version that is being implemented.

This is something that those who have it in for the public sector always seem to gloss over.

Its much easier to personally attack DDD, apparently.

secretsam

I'm ex-Public Sector, now private sector working with the public sector

Mrs SecretSam is Public Sector (for the moment, until that nice Mr Cameron boots her out of her job)

I don't subscribe to "Public good, Private bad" based on historical patterns of service delivery; many of our public services were however created due to the failure of an unregulated market economy to provide the quality and scope of services that were required.

The Public Sector on the whole in my experience does an excellent job for the resource inputs it receives, although as in any industry there's good and bad services - I've seen appalling waste and truly shocking services in the public sector AND the private sector. The assumption that the private sector will always be naturally efficient is founded on good principles but not always delivered in reality. On the other hand, other countries - especially the USA - often cite the NHS (for example) as an astonishing achievement given its resources.

Food for thought - the huge, obscene waste on managers in the NHS totals a massive 3-4% of its total expenditure, comfortably among the lowest in the Western World. I don't know what the figure is for the market-led system in the USA that certain people think is so marvellous, but it's in double figures.

Final point: on an economic note, there's always things that will be "Public Goods", hence there will ALWAYS be a need for some form of public sector.

DonDaddyD

flaming someone, attacking a person is easy from behind a computer screen.

The thread is actually a discussion about the public sector. A discussion is full of differing opinions.

This is not a debate about whether DDD is at work.

I do not have to divulge or answer anything I do not want to. I am entitled to my privacy.

I have every right to post here as much as anyone.

I don't have to justify anything to anyone.

I am not personally answerable to any of you.

I shouldn't be the target of the disgruntled.

tailwindhome

notsoblue wrote:

Its much easier to personally attack DDD, apparently.

You're confusing 'personally attack' with 'taking things personally'

lost_in_thought

Dude, you're saying the public sector isn't bloated and inefficient, then spending an entire day posting about it, whilst allegedly at work, in the public sector!

Can you not see the FAIL?

PS.

The fight would have to take place in water deep enough for Jaws to perform the leapy thing he does, and shallow enough for Kong to be able to move relatively efficiently.

@whoever said Kong wouldn't encounter sharks in the shallows - we're talking about a fight between a 50-ton gorilla and a great white. Reality isn't our number one concern!

My money's on the shark. Superior weaponry, and too slippery for Kong to keep hold of.

andyrm

Rolf F wrote:

davmaggs wrote:

Actually having dealt with a lot of C-level public sector people they don't have the same level of business skills as the same private sector rank. They've often come from mediocre ranks of private companies and escaped to the PS, or they've risen through the PS, or perhaps moved around pseudo PS-type organisations. They usually can't cut in in the private sector. The ones that are good leave the PS fairly quickly once they realise the culture.

Yes, and I've dealt with plenty of private sector people who will dump any crappily researched piece of junk on your desk and think they can charge 20 grand for it.[b/] Probably they couldn't cut it in the public sector. Except that that is bull. As are your comments above. There is crap in any organisation, public or private. Similarly, there is also good. Just as there are very efficiently run public sector organisations, there are very badly run private sector organisations (eg much of what the great City does). Sweeping meaningless generalisations might be acceptable in the private sector these days though........

....and thus generate £20k of revenue for their company. Supply and demand - the perceived quality to an outsider is irrelevant, if the buyer deems the product to be worth £20k, it is. Same logic as an outsider to BR would balk at the concept of £4-5k bikes........

tailwindhome

lost_in_thought wrote:

The fight would have to take place in water deep enough for Jaws to perform the leapy thing he does, and shallow enough for Kong to be able to move relatively efficiently.

@whoever said Kong wouldn't encounter sharks in the shallows - we're talking about a fight between a 50-ton gorilla and a great white. Reality isn't our number one concern!

Clearly the fight should take place in a neutral venue.........Outer Space.

DonDaddyD

Lit, do you really honestly think I am at work? In my new job with a more important position on the Internet?

Wow!

So many possible theories.... Here's a few more. Operation so recovering. Annual leave. Working from home and have two screens on PC so bikeradar on one work on the other. Day off building PC I mentioned. Typing on iPhone. Typing on Laptop while in transit. Off sick with doctors note. Dental issue.

So many and all of these, one of these or none of these could be the answer. You guys choose, I like the attention.

'Sent by my brainwaves'

Greg T

I'm not buying into the whole efficient / inefficient argument being made by people working in the public and private sectors using the number of posts being made as evidence of inherent inefficiencies in the other......

It would appear that there are people in allegedly cut throat "must meet the deadline or they'll kill the puppies" private sector jobs finding time between closing deals and firing single mothers to post....

Also it would appear that some earnest tofu clad grauniad reading Public sector pension hogs find time between diversity workshops to post as well....

So - maybe people slack off in both sectors? The difference is the Private sector makes money at the same time and the Public saves lives / tells me what vegetables to eat etc...

Sewinman

Greg T wrote:

I'm not buying into the whole efficient / inefficient argument being made by people working in the public and private sectors using the number of posts being made as evidence of inherent inefficiencies in the other......

It would appear that there are people in allegedly cut throat "must meet the deadline or they'll kill the puppies" private sector jobs finding time between closing deals and firing single mothers to post....

Also it would appear that some earnest tofu clad grauniad reading Public sector pension hogs find time between diversity workshops to post as well....

So - maybe people slack off in both sectors? The difference is the Private sector makes money at the same time and the Public saves lives / tells me what vegetables to eat etc...

Greg T - The Voice of Reason..... :shock:

greg66_tri_v2.0

TailWindHome wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

The fight would have to take place in water deep enough for Jaws to perform the leapy thing he does, and shallow enough for Kong to be able to move relatively efficiently.

@whoever said Kong wouldn't encounter sharks in the shallows - we're talking about a fight between a 50-ton gorilla and a great white. Reality isn't our number one concern!

Clearly the fight should take place in a neutral venue.........Outer Space.

Jaws' helmet would neutralise his greatest attacking weapon though...

MonkeyMonster

Greg66 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Clearly the fight should take place in a neutral venue.........Outer Space.

Jaws' helmet would neutralise his greatest attacking weapon though...

Could we get him some rockets to enable ramming speed?