Lets have, why do people hate the public sector?
Comments
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<< Stoke the fire >>
Thing is I've seen displays of bullying, discrimination, breaches of employment law and general misconduct in the private sector that you just couln't get away with in the public sector.
Furthermore, of all those people who are now complaining about complex procedure, working culture and too powerful unions. There were probably an equal number, but likely more, and some of whom are the very same who complained about a lack of procedure, working culture and unions about 2decades ago.
I can't help feel annoyed about the self perpetuating catalyst.
Half the systems in place in the public sector are a direct result of complaints and changes, like the ones now, being made. You simply cannnot please everyone or anyone it seems. I'd argue that the public sector is convoluted because it cannot seem to settle on a particular system. Take GP commissioning for example, it was in place once before (all be it dressed in a different system/suit) and it didn't work (running out of knee replacements halfway through the year for example). People didn't like GP commissioning and this led to managers and non-medical professionals taking the helm, that led to the ward manager, practice manager, middle manager culture. People didn't like that. So here we are again with GP commissioning, which undoubtably and people won't like, eventually. :roll:
Personally I think both sectors have their positives and negatives. There is a lot I love about the public sector and a lot I hate. This is true of the private sector as well. I also think both sectors can still learn things from each other.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Greg66 wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:I think he is still on the site under another username....
Whoop! Whoop! Whoop! Whoop! Whoop!
**MODERATOR ALERT! !**MODERATOR ALERT!!**
Some secret agent you'd make.
Any moderator/webmaster worth their salt should have recorded and tracked his IP address to make sure that doesn't happen. The proper internet-nazi-bastard webmaster/moderator would have promptly banned it and any others linked to his account.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:Greg66 wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:I think he is still on the site under another username....
Whoop! Whoop! Whoop! Whoop! Whoop!
**MODERATOR ALERT! !**MODERATOR ALERT!!**
Some secret agent you'd make.
Any moderator/webmaster worth their salt should have recorded and tracked his IP address to make sure that doesn't happen. The proper internet-nazi-bastard webmaster/moderator would have promptly banned it and any others linked to his account.
<Chandler Bing>
Could you *be* more helpful to the moderators?0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:<< Stoke the fire >>
Thing is I've seen displays of bullying, discrimination, breaches of employment law and general misconduct in the private sector that you just couln't get away with in the public sector.
Furthermore, of all those people who are now complaining about complex procedure, working culture and too powerful unions. There were probably an equal number, but likely more, and some of whom are the very same who complained about a lack of procedure, working culture and unions about 2decades ago.
I can't help feel annoyed about the self perpetuating catalyst.
Half the systems in place in the public sector are a direct result of complaints and changes, like the ones now, being made. You simply cannnot please everyone or anyone it seems. I'd argue that the public sector is convoluted because it cannot seem to settle on a particular system. Take GP commissioning for example, it was in place once before (all be it dressed in a different system/suit) and it didn't work (running out of knee replacements halfway through the year for example). People didn't like GP commissioning and this led to managers and non-medical professionals taking the helm, that led to the ward manager, practice manager, middle manager culture. People didn't like that. So here we are again with GP commissioning, which undoubtably and people won't like, eventually. :roll:
Personally I think both sectors have their positives and negatives. There is a lot I love about the public sector and a lot I hate. This is true of the private sector as well. I also think both sectors can still learn things from each other.
This is a prime example of where more private sector based management principle could be used with public sector expert consultation.
What you need is the vocational spirit of the public sector and the accountable, no-nonsense management of a corporation. I think it would put unions quickly out of joint as it would be such a culture change and they would feel threatened.
The thing is that there are many large global corporates with low staff-turnover, plaques on the desk with '20 years service' on and the company makes billions. There are no unions and the workers love what they do and feel respected by the management, feel as though they have good prospects and job security.
It seems like whenever there is a move towards creating these quite logical and justifiable changes the unions just go ape, regardless of how important it is to implement them and regardless of how outdated and inefficient the work practices are.
Productivity is judged on inputs on outputs - The amount of resources you input to the value of output produced. If a company is spending 100 billion in the cost of slaes to produce say 200 billion revenue, it could probably produce the same with 90-95 billion with structural and process changes. This is the sort of theory which is being applied to the public sector, albeit with unfortunate redundancies and affecting 100,000s of families.What wheels...? Wheelsmith.co.uk!0 -
Greg66 wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:
I'm sorry but no, Superman cannot turn back time.
Hang on a minute....
You're debating the possibility of superman's reversal of the rotation of the earth turning back time, and saying he can't do it 'cause it's not possible, while conveniently ignoring the fact that in this work of fiction he's also able to fly, perform superhuman feats and is completely incapacitated by a fictional rock, able to survive in space and from a different planet?
Tad selective, isn't it?
Yes, there is a degree of suspension of belief but that suspension still has to based losely around some sense of realism for belief to be suspended in the first place. if Superman reversed time, why wasn't he in there in the past, what about the rest of the Universe? Also the feat needs to be consistent with past portrayals of the character, Superman doesn't do time travel.
Lastly but most importantly the movies are incontinuity so they don't count. I don't make the comic character rules I just live by them.
He has a point. You have to have rules.
I mean, I bet you had a dolly or somesuch as a child that you pretended spoke to you.
If someone had said to you "Your dolly can speak Hungarian", you'd've said "Don't be silly. My dolly can't speak Hungarian. It only knows English".
Rules, see. Rules.
Or you might just have started hitting them, a la Lisbeth Salander. I could see that, very easily.
I never had dolls. Well, actually I did, my hippy aunt bought me mixed race dolls so I could develop an understanding of ethnic diversity at a young age, I took great pleasure in dismantling them and swapping their limbs around. Then I didn't have them any more.
None of them could speak. They were all dolls, you see.
Make of that what you will.0 -
simonaspinall wrote:This is a prime example of where more private sector based management principle could be used with public sector expert consultation.
What you need is the vocational spirit of the public sector and the accountable, no-nonsense management of a corporation. I think it would put unions quickly out of joint as it would be such a culture change and they would feel threatened.
But there is/was that and that's what people complained against. Managers were employed not on vocational merit but based on proper professional qualifications and experience. People complained about merely paying these people. For the NHS the whole GP commissioning and 'giving powers back to the Doctors' is a direct reaction to people not liking the whole accountable, no-nonsense management of a corporation. The minute 'corporate' gets mentioned people start talking about privatisation. Then some wonder why staff, who have gone through numerous changes are so resistant to it.
I've been in this for 5 years and seen two major industry changes and two major organisation changes. I'm not oppose to change and i've faced my redundancy I can just see the other perspective that people are complaining about.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Simon - you seem to be bang on the money there.
Sadly the pot is empty and unless the country is to go bankrupt, cuts have to be made. That's how it is. We haven't had pay rises (inflation/cost of living led or otherwise) in our company due to a tougher economy. Nobody went bleating to unions (none of us are members of or believe in them anyway) or the press or anyone else. We accepted and understood there is "x" in the pot and that pot can't be emptied of something it doesn't contain.
I think a huge amount of public sector problems come from the unions and the sense of entitlement they indoctrinate into their people. I've also seen the same in highly unionised parts of the private sector and look where it got them. The outdated, militant unions stir up trouble without looking at economic reality and the net result is that while there are occasional short term gains, long term the money runs out and the plug has to get pulled.
What the public sector needs is solid leadership in every sector. Effectively a Managing Director in each business unit. Not someone who has risen there by virtue of time in the company or pay band, but someone who is there on merit. Headhunt some good private sector MDs and pay them competitive salaries. I almost guarantee they will more than recoup their salaries in the short to medium term at least. I have yet to meet a single public sector "manager" in my dealings with the sector that I would describe as "inspirational". "Grey" would be a better descriptive word. Where are the excited, brash, go-getting, driven managers in the public sector? Find them, reward them with the savings on salaries from the dead wood (who need to be sacked anyway) and watch the sector recover and operate more efficiently.0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:Thing is I've seen displays of bullying, discrimination, breaches of employment law and general misconduct in the private sector that you just couln't get away with in the public sector.
Any chance of you being able to justify this apparently-made-up-and-completely-anecdotal comment?
I'm sure you've got time whilst on your day off/putting your feet up/wasting our taxes/whatever-the-man-of-mystery-says-he's-up-to, and I shouldn't imagine you want to leave yourself open to personal attack.0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:I never had dolls. Well, actually I did, my hippy aunt bought me mixed race dolls so I could develop an understanding of ethnic diversity at a young age, I took great pleasure in dismantling them and swapping their limbs around. Then I didn't have them any more.
None of them could speak. They were all dolls, you see.
Make of that what you will.
How did you know the doll with bi-racial? Did it come with a glass of Semillion in one hand and a buckket full of chicken in the other?
Mmmmm fried chicken with a Semillion coating.....Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:I never had dolls. Well, actually I did, my hippy aunt bought me mixed race dolls so I could develop an understanding of ethnic diversity at a young age, I took great pleasure in dismantling them and swapping their limbs around. Then I didn't have them any more.
None of them could speak. They were all dolls, you see.
Make of that what you will.
How did you know the doll with bi-racial? Did it come with a glass of Semillion in one hand and a buckket full of chicken in the other?
Mmmmm fried chicken with a Semillion coating.....
Well, there were 3 dolls... in varying shades of skin. They ended up much more mixed race than they started!0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:<< Stoke the fire >>
Thing is I've seen displays of bullying, discrimination, breaches of employment law and general misconduct in the private sector that you just couln't get away with in the public sector.
Every single day and week I see this. Whether it's longer than contracted hours, no lunch breaks, high levels of pressure from management and clients, you could argue that they are breaches of the law. Or they could just be deemed getting the job done. Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture than some petty rules that are pretty much unimportant in the bigger scheme of things. I'd rather work a 55 hour week for no extra money, under massive pressure and keep my employer afloat rather than go all Scargill and "not my job" then see the business fold......0 -
andyrm wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:<< Stoke the fire >>
Thing is I've seen displays of bullying, discrimination, breaches of employment law and general misconduct in the private sector that you just couln't get away with in the public sector.
Every single day and week I see this. Whether it's longer than contracted hours, no lunch breaks, high levels of pressure from management and clients, you could argue that they are breaches of the law. Or they could just be deemed getting the job done. Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture than some petty rules that are pretty much unimportant in the bigger scheme of things. I'd rather work a 55 hour week for no extra money, under massive pressure and keep my employer afloat rather than go all Scargill and "not my job" then see the business fold......
You should work for BA - seriously, their staff need an attitude adjustment too.
I have to say, my private sector jobs have been entirely cushty. Sure, there's the need for overtime and hard work, but it's always been offset with pleasant lunches and fancy hotels.0 -
Monkeypump wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:Thing is I've seen displays of bullying, discrimination, breaches of employment law and general misconduct in the private sector that you just couln't get away with in the public sector.
Any chance of you being able to justify this apparently-made-up-and-completely-anecdotal comment?
I'm sure you've got time whilst on your day off/putting your feet up/wasting our taxes/whatever-the-man-of-mystery-says-he's-up-to, and I shouldn't imagine you want to leave yourself open to personal attack.
So none of those things simply don't, couldn't possibly, happen in the private sector, right? Is that what you're saying? Sure.....
:roll:Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:Monkeypump wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:Thing is I've seen displays of bullying, discrimination, breaches of employment law and general misconduct in the private sector that you just couln't get away with in the public sector.
Any chance of you being able to justify this apparently-made-up-and-completely-anecdotal comment?
I'm sure you've got time whilst on your day off/putting your feet up/wasting our taxes/whatever-the-man-of-mystery-says-he's-up-to, and I shouldn't imagine you want to leave yourself open to personal attack.
So none of those things simply don't, couldn't possibly, happen in the private sector, right? Is that what you're saying? Sure.....
:roll:
It would certainly be harder for the private sector to waste taxes.0 -
andyrm wrote:
Every single day and week I see this. Whether it's longer than contracted hours, no lunch breaks, high levels of pressure from management and clients, you could argue that they are breaches of the law. Or they could just be deemed getting the job done. Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture than some petty rules that are pretty much unimportant in the bigger scheme of things. I'd rather work a 55 hour week for no extra money, under massive pressure and keep my employer afloat rather than go all Scargill and "not my job" then see the business fold......
I agree, I also think its how you approach the situation... if a manager storms into an office throwing paper around (yes MonkeyPump this has happened) and demands you take no lunch and work late then you may have a problem.
However I've worked late alongside my manager to get the work done and personally missed lunch, worked well past the 12hr mark and weekends to get the job done. I see it as fun, I acutally like the end result - achieving the goal.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:
Every single day and week I see this. Whether it's longer than contracted hours, no lunch breaks, high levels of pressure from management and clients, you could argue that they are breaches of the law. Or they could just be deemed getting the job done. Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture than some petty rules that are pretty much unimportant in the bigger scheme of things. I'd rather work a 55 hour week for no extra money, under massive pressure and keep my employer afloat rather than go all Scargill and "not my job" then see the business fold......
I agree, I also think its how you approach the situation... if a manager storms into an office throwing paper around (yes MonkeyPump this has happened) and demands you take no lunch and work late then you may have a problem.
However I've worked late alongside my manager to get the work done and personally missed lunch, worked well past the 12hr mark and weekends to get the job done. I see it as fun, I acutally like the end result - achieving the goal.
Hmmm... did I say that?0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:Monkeypump wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:Thing is I've seen displays of bullying, discrimination, breaches of employment law and general misconduct in the private sector that you just couln't get away with in the public sector.
Any chance of you being able to justify this apparently-made-up-and-completely-anecdotal comment?
I'm sure you've got time whilst on your day off/putting your feet up/wasting our taxes/whatever-the-man-of-mystery-says-he's-up-to, and I shouldn't imagine you want to leave yourself open to personal attack.
So none of those things simply don't, couldn't possibly, happen in the private sector, right? Is that what you're saying? Sure.....
:roll:
It would certainly be harder for the private sector to waste taxes.
I'm talking about:
Bullying,
Discrimination,
Breaches of employment law
General misconduct
Monkeypump, implied that my references to these are anecdotal as though they couldn't possibly happen in the private sector.Monkeypump wrote:wasting our taxes
As for wasting your taxes (because I seemingly pay none and appear to be the biggest offender of tax waste), I don't, I'm going to spend your money on a big TV, wine, cheese and maybe light my cigars with some of it as well. So yeah... I guess thanks.
:roll:Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:You should work for BA - seriously, their staff need an attitude adjustment too.
I have to say, my private sector jobs have been entirely cushty. Sure, there's the need for overtime and hard work, but it's always been offset with pleasant lunches and fancy hotels.
Yup - case in point with BA's staff - over unionised, workshy wasters who don't realise how lucky they are. Watch them go down the route of the miners and the rest of the British car workers before long.......and with good reason.
Don't get me wrong, my private sector job is awesome - tough, high pressure, uber-challenging but exciting, stretches me and well rewarded. But I certainly couldn't do a private sector job where I'd have to deal with lazy, unmotivated people with no drive.....0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:Greg66 wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:
I'm sorry but no, Superman cannot turn back time.
Hang on a minute....
You're debating the possibility of superman's reversal of the rotation of the earth turning back time, and saying he can't do it 'cause it's not possible, while conveniently ignoring the fact that in this work of fiction he's also able to fly, perform superhuman feats and is completely incapacitated by a fictional rock, able to survive in space and from a different planet?
Tad selective, isn't it?
Yes, there is a degree of suspension of belief but that suspension still has to based losely around some sense of realism for belief to be suspended in the first place. if Superman reversed time, why wasn't he in there in the past, what about the rest of the Universe? Also the feat needs to be consistent with past portrayals of the character, Superman doesn't do time travel.
Lastly but most importantly the movies are incontinuity so they don't count. I don't make the comic character rules I just live by them.
He has a point. You have to have rules.
I mean, I bet you had a dolly or somesuch as a child that you pretended spoke to you.
If someone had said to you "Your dolly can speak Hungarian", you'd've said "Don't be silly. My dolly can't speak Hungarian. It only knows English".
Rules, see. Rules.
Or you might just have started hitting them, a la Lisbeth Salander. I could see that, very easily.
I never had dolls. Well, actually I did, my hippy aunt bought me mixed race dolls so I could develop an understanding of ethnic diversity at a young age, I took great pleasure in dismantling them and swapping their limbs around. Then I didn't have them any more.
None of them could speak. They were all dolls, you see.
Make of that what you will.
You are a weirdo? Do i win a prize?
0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:Hmmm... did I say that?
Ooops!! deleted the wrong quote thingy!!0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:Monkeypump wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:Thing is I've seen displays of bullying, discrimination, breaches of employment law and general misconduct in the private sector that you just couln't get away with in the public sector.
Any chance of you being able to justify this apparently-made-up-and-completely-anecdotal comment?
I'm sure you've got time whilst on your day off/putting your feet up/wasting our taxes/whatever-the-man-of-mystery-says-he's-up-to, and I shouldn't imagine you want to leave yourself open to personal attack.
So none of those things simply don't, couldn't possibly, happen in the private sector, right? Is that what you're saying? Sure.....
:roll:
Not at all, just wondering if you can give examples of exactly what you've seen, whether they really are "displays of bullying, discrimination, breaches of employment law and general misconduct" and why this wouldn't happen in the public sector.
Or just dodge the question, of course.
:roll: , sigh, etc....0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:Monkeypump wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:Thing is I've seen displays of bullying, discrimination, breaches of employment law and general misconduct in the private sector that you just couln't get away with in the public sector.
Any chance of you being able to justify this apparently-made-up-and-completely-anecdotal comment?
I'm sure you've got time whilst on your day off/putting your feet up/wasting our taxes/whatever-the-man-of-mystery-says-he's-up-to, and I shouldn't imagine you want to leave yourself open to personal attack.
So none of those things simply don't, couldn't possibly, happen in the private sector, right? Is that what you're saying? Sure.....
:roll:
It would certainly be harder for the private sector to waste taxes.
Yeah, the huge aerospace/defence industry is in no way propped up and is massively efficient with the tax money flung its way on inflated tenders.
I hear they always pay the lowest possible bribes!0 -
PBo wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:Greg66 wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:
I'm sorry but no, Superman cannot turn back time.
Hang on a minute....
You're debating the possibility of superman's reversal of the rotation of the earth turning back time, and saying he can't do it 'cause it's not possible, while conveniently ignoring the fact that in this work of fiction he's also able to fly, perform superhuman feats and is completely incapacitated by a fictional rock, able to survive in space and from a different planet?
Tad selective, isn't it?
Yes, there is a degree of suspension of belief but that suspension still has to based losely around some sense of realism for belief to be suspended in the first place. if Superman reversed time, why wasn't he in there in the past, what about the rest of the Universe? Also the feat needs to be consistent with past portrayals of the character, Superman doesn't do time travel.
Lastly but most importantly the movies are incontinuity so they don't count. I don't make the comic character rules I just live by them.
He has a point. You have to have rules.
I mean, I bet you had a dolly or somesuch as a child that you pretended spoke to you.
If someone had said to you "Your dolly can speak Hungarian", you'd've said "Don't be silly. My dolly can't speak Hungarian. It only knows English".
Rules, see. Rules.
Or you might just have started hitting them, a la Lisbeth Salander. I could see that, very easily.
I never had dolls. Well, actually I did, my hippy aunt bought me mixed race dolls so I could develop an understanding of ethnic diversity at a young age, I took great pleasure in dismantling them and swapping their limbs around. Then I didn't have them any more.
None of them could speak. They were all dolls, you see.
Make of that what you will.
You are a weirdo? Do i win a prize?
Nope! I'd have thought that was obvious....0 -
PBo wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:Monkeypump wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:Thing is I've seen displays of bullying, discrimination, breaches of employment law and general misconduct in the private sector that you just couln't get away with in the public sector.
Any chance of you being able to justify this apparently-made-up-and-completely-anecdotal comment?
I'm sure you've got time whilst on your day off/putting your feet up/wasting our taxes/whatever-the-man-of-mystery-says-he's-up-to, and I shouldn't imagine you want to leave yourself open to personal attack.
So none of those things simply don't, couldn't possibly, happen in the private sector, right? Is that what you're saying? Sure.....
:roll:
It would certainly be harder for the private sector to waste taxes.
Yeah, the huge aerospace/defence industry is in no way propped up and is massively efficient with the tax money flung its way on inflated tenders.
I hear they always pay the lowest possible bribes!
Hence hardER.....0 -
Monkeypump wrote:
Not at all, just wondering if you can give examples of exactly what you've seen, whether they really are "displays of bullying, discrimination, breaches of employment law and general misconduct" and why this wouldn't happen in the public sector.
Or just dodge the question, of course.
:roll: , sigh, etc....
Family member tribunal for unfair dismissal, won the case.
Myself at the hands of a tyrant manager, who would shout bully and swear at you on the shop floor (Uni days).
LiTs having to sack someone, pretty much because they are fat.
Also, gender and racial discrimination have been pretty much well documented in both sectors.
(There are others that are direct and personal experiences but I feel the above will do).
You're right it happens in both sectors, I would argue that in the private sector its easier to abuse/bend the laws that protect staff. However this isn't the case for all private sector jobs it is an element (as it is in the public sector).
I could be wrong.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:
LiTs having to sack someone, pretty much because they are fat.
I didn't sack her, she was a temp.
I got a new one.0 -
andyrm wrote:Yup - case in point with BA's staff - over unionised, workshy wasters who don't realise how lucky they are. Watch them go down the route of the miners and the rest of the British car workers before long.......and with good reason.
Which 'route' is it that the miner's and car workers went down exactly?0 -
Paulie W wrote:andyrm wrote:Yup - case in point with BA's staff - over unionised, workshy wasters who don't realise how lucky they are. Watch them go down the route of the miners and the rest of the British car workers before long.......and with good reason.
Which 'route' is it that the miner's and car workers went down exactly?
Eventually someone further up the food chain finds out they are lazy wasters and there is cheaper, better, more committed labour available elsewhere and shuts them down. That route.0 -
Paulie W wrote:andyrm wrote:Yup - case in point with BA's staff - over unionised, workshy wasters who don't realise how lucky they are. Watch them go down the route of the miners and the rest of the British car workers before long.......and with good reason.
Which 'route' is it that the miner's and car workers went down exactly?
Self destruction?0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:simonaspinall wrote:This is a prime example of where more private sector based management principle could be used with public sector expert consultation.
What you need is the vocational spirit of the public sector and the accountable, no-nonsense management of a corporation. I think it would put unions quickly out of joint as it would be such a culture change and they would feel threatened.
But there is/was that and that's what people complained against. Managers were employed not on vocational merit but based on proper professional qualifications and experience. People complained about merely paying these people. For the NHS the whole GP commissioning and 'giving powers back to the Doctors' is a direct reaction to people not liking the whole accountable, no-nonsense management of a corporation. The minute 'corporate' gets mentioned people start talking about privatisation. Then some wonder why staff, who have gone through numerous changes are so resistant to it.
I've been in this for 5 years and seen two major industry changes and two major organisation changes. I'm not oppose to change and i've faced my redundancy I can just see the other perspective that people are complaining about.
Is this about the way change is delivered though? To be fair, we have to seperate 'change' and 'progress'. The problem with the Labour government was that many ministerial positioned were chopped and changed and each new minister came up with a flagship policy to try and be the saviour of their department and inflate their ego with little or no thought to how a huge organisation could change to accomodate this. The change fatigue you mentioned is quite right and justifiable.
The leadership argument as mentioned in another post with a top quality MD from the private sector would be based around a long-term vision of where the service should be - examining the role of the organisation itself and how the structure can most efficiently deliver this, which is kind of the direction the Tories are going at the moment. Whether you feel this is backed with ideological vigour or is a genuine move to try and amend the role of government to be there 'in need' from the 'subsidse most of the population' strategy they seemed to employ is another matter.
There probably is no money left, although I don't subscribe to how fast the national debt needs to be cut - But I do believe the role of the state, which is under the spotlight should be the key factor in this. More directed at those genuinely in need.
In theory the minister should be the MD, as this person has the mandate by election to be in charge and the charisma and leadership qualities to guide and bring people with them. Cameron has suggested he will keep ministers in their positions longer than the previous PMs did to keep the ship stable and implement new policies with more thoroughness.
Although I am a proper Guardian reader I can't help but admire the logical and sensible approach and principals with regards to streamlining the public sector. Yes it will mean redundancies, but then the public sector does not owe anyone a job and the positions that are being lost may not have been necessary in the first place.What wheels...? Wheelsmith.co.uk!0
