Recovery time from hard rides?
Comments
-
Will, as you know I have a coach and I only do 3-4 (very) hard sessions a week that are only just over an hour long, with a lot of recovery and I have reaped the rewards of this.
I think you do too much for what your body can cope with especially when factoring in your nutrition.0 -
If I only did 3-4 very hard 1 hour sessions a week I'd be very, VERY bored and probably not find any enjoyment in cycling, unless I had a job and other thigs to do that occupied nearly all my time.
I do about 4 rides per week, so I too have lots of recovery, and I should be recovering quicker cause I'm younger. Some weeks I only do 2 rides.0 -
Right, so you've dismissed overtraining. You've dismissed nutrition. You're getting enough recovery.
Maybe you've peaked and you'll never get any better than you were then?...
Or a mystery illness?0 -
NapoleonD wrote:Right, so you've dismissed overtraining. You've dismissed nutrition. You're getting enough recovery.
Maybe you've peaked and you'll never get any better than you were then?...
Or a mystery illness?
I've not dismissed over training. Obviously people think I'm ignoring it and keeping riding, if sitting in this chair chair is not helping then I don't know what to do, I've had days and days rest and I'm continuing to rest.
Lol course I've not peaked, I'm not even achieving near 50% of my potential.
It could be illness, if you can get illnesses that have no symptoms apart from in exercise where you can see it by lower performance if that's possible.
I'm dismissing diet as to be a cause because I think they are people out there that are eating worse than me and doing a lot better than me, in fact I know a few people who I doubt they've got some perfect diet set by a nutritionist and they're doing pretty fast times, well I think they're fast.0 -
Overtraining took me 3 full months of no training (I couldn't train as my body wouldn't let me) so let's hope you haven't as it may take you a lot longer to recover than you may imagine.0
-
What was your symptoms of overtraining?
I went out today, did not really push hard, only done 12 miles, felt okish, certainly better than Friday, was struggling into the headwind but it did seem rather strong galeforce.
I think I'm finding if I go out maybe every day, for maybe 5 days, or 1 day on, one day off, do 10-20 miles, steady, but do some hard intervals, maybe just 1, or 2, this is helping me. I feel better after the 12 mile I have done today than I have done all day, I just felt run down and only went out because I wanted some air.0 -
freehub wrote:[
What, I'm sure you had a 40mile club run planned?
Did it today, nearly killed me!0 -
freehub wrote:What was your symptoms of overtraining?
I went out today, did not really push hard, only done 12 miles, felt okish, certainly better than Friday, was struggling into the headwind but it did seem rather strong galeforce.
I think I'm finding if I go out maybe evrery day, or 1 day on, one day off, do 10-20 miles, steady, but do some hard intervals, maybe just 1, or 2, this is helping me. I feel better after the 12 mile I have done today than I have done all day, I just felt run down and only went out because I wanted some air.
The thing I learned from my overtraining is that it is much harder to recognise it than people say. For me it was tiredness occasionally and then it became more and more frequent (and recovery much longer - both are interrelated). I was an absolute fool when I look back now as I continued to push as I would get days where I could pb and that convinced me there could be nothing wrong. In the end it was dramatic. One day I tried to do some cardio and I couldn't even manage 5 mins. I was so tired. Tiredness like I have never, ever felt again. That was it for 3 months. Then one day I found that I actually felt half right and that was it back to training again. I unfortunately went a bit too hard and this time ended up with shingles. That took 2 months to get there. I still have the scars from that one
Are you overtrained? Sorry, I haven't a clue however if you are having problems then there is a reason. If you rule out everything else then it's overtraining so beware0 -
I don't know, I'm going to be careful, as I said, did 12 miles today, I might ride tomoz, but perhaps I should rest, if the wind is very low then I'll do a really steady ride which of course today I could not do.
I've always felt tired, I'm always needing a nap in the day, in college I was always falling asleep but this could not be related to overtraining, as I was getting it before I started cycling properly.
I have always being aware of overtraining and whilst I have pushed on with my miles, I have tried to do things in order to not be effected by it, such as, these 160+ mile rides, or even ones over around 120 I usually take at least 1 day off, maybe 2-3 days, when I do a 50 miler ride, I take the day after usually, if I only do say 30-40 miles, I'll perhaps go out the next day but it depends on the terrain. Weirdly enough I tend to handle hillier rides better, I recover quicker from them compared to a hard flat ride.0 -
Honestly if you find that you can't raise your effort to normal level over a week or two then you know you have overtrained so best to be cautious for a while however being tired after a hard effort is normal. I can be wrecked and need a doze after a 1 hour all out NP test so I wouldn't overally concern myself about that. It's the changes that are important when I reflected. Am I taking longer to recover? Am I finding it harder to do what I normally do and I'm not ill? Does my heart rate not rise as far as it normally would on efforts? Do I actually feel like I don't want to go out ride (not a problem for you ? It's what you can't do rather than what you can do that I think is more important however I could be completely off here as that is just what I took from my experience. 0
-
So if I go out on day to test these symptoms.
If I go on my bike with my HRM, go all out, and have my HR reaching 190+, then that is one thing that is working ok.
If I recover as normal, then another thing ok.
And if I feel good then those three things would possible mean not overtraining?0 -
freehub wrote:So if I go out on day to test these symptoms.
If I go on my bike with my HRM, go all out, and have my HR reaching 190+, then that is one thing that is working ok.
If I recover as normal, then another thing ok.
And if I feel good then those three things would possible mean not overtraining?
If you are really overtrained then you are unlikely to be able to raise your heart to normal levels and recover normally assuming you can put the required effort to start with. No guarantees though as I used to pb whilst overtrained however it was very much a good day amongst many mediocre days so you can't treat anything in isolation. As I say it's how things develp over time.0 -
Although I will say that few people I know have really been overtrained as such, what you have mentioned above can be very true.doyler78 wrote:
The thing I learned from my overtraining is that it is much harder to recognise it than people say.
Are you overtrained? Sorry, I haven't a clue however if you are having problems then there is a reason.
I have seen overtraining in bodybuilders and it actually tends to be more common with them than it does with endurance athletes. Addiction to exercise combined with the absolute belief that what you are doing is essential and the strong denial of the negatives is the reason that it happens. It can destroy a life along with the health and the mental state of the victim. It is very very sad and I hate to see it happen but some are unfortunately too stubborn to be helped.
Not saying that freehub is in this boat (yet at least) but things need to be watched as they can go downhill. I will say that the symptoms and thoughts of which freehub has posted on this forum appear to show obsessive mentality in this regard.
Freehub, if you are finding that cycling is the number one priority in your life and you are struggling to feel satisfied without it - even with what sounds like possible physical side effects then you may wish to give some thought to what you are doing and what you want to achieve from it.
Remember that exercise is not always healthy and can do much more harm than good.
Is cycling to you an addiction or escape?
Is it doing more harm than good? (Be honest with yourself on this)
A common overtraining sign is that you may not not be getting the same joy out of life as you used to, and things that were previously fun are not so much anymore. Libido can be significantly lowered or even non existent which although no bad thing for a student is generally a sign that things are not all OK.
Just some things to think about and whatever happens I wish you all the very best.
Murr X0 -
freehub wrote:I'm in no danger of having permenant heart damage lol... I don't go out when I'm run down.
Not cycling at all today, that is 4 days of doing no high intensity work, I went out on Friday and did 24 miles steadyish, mainly did no more because I felt crap, as if my V02 max suddenly was alot lower and I could never get enough oxygen in, constantly trying to breath deep and always yawning.
Are you not contradicting yourself here fella?!
Have you thought about going to see a doctor? I'm serious - in one of your other posts you said something about always feeling tired and wanting a nap during the day. Are you thirsty too? Peeing a lot? Diabetes? What do you have to lose by seeing a GP and getting checked out?0 -
Pollys Bott wrote:freehub wrote:I'm in no danger of having permenant heart damage lol... I don't go out when I'm run down.
Not cycling at all today, that is 4 days of doing no high intensity work, I went out on Friday and did 24 miles steadyish, mainly did no more because I felt crap, as if my V02 max suddenly was alot lower and I could never get enough oxygen in, constantly trying to breath deep and always yawning.
Are you not contradicting yourself here fella?!
Have you thought about going to see a doctor? I'm serious - in one of your other posts you said something about always feeling tired and wanting a nap during the day. Are you thirsty too? Peeing a lot? Diabetes? What do you have to lose by seeing a GP and getting checked out?
I'm not thirsty much and I don't pee alot, I've being to the doctor about the tiredness and they don't know what it is but they are not too worried either. I was diagnosed as being borderline anemic, but that is not a problem according to the doctor, also unknown to me, I've being worse like 7 years ago, my iron levels were much much lower.
I'm not contradicting myself because I felt ok before setting off on that ride.0 -
I did 35 miles today overall a steady ride, testing myself on bits seeing what I could/could not do. Can't see any problems, HR responded well, tested myself for a mile or so, 195bpm on the flat, holding 35mph at one point. It is aaagggesss since I've seen 195bpm on the flat.
Maybe I over reacted a little, but on Saturday if I do a club ride I might take the steady club run rather than the normal faster one I go on.
Was an interesting ride too, some guy ont cycle track likes ma bike, he asked me if it was Shimaaanooo or Cam-pag-naaaaa-loooo000000 and he said Camp-pag-naaaaa-loooo00000 is better and that av got nice big strong legs He asked if e cud av mahhhh baike foo freeeeee, and av a got another baaikkee e cud race me on, but a sed av crashed it, n e said, yehh I noticed yer goott sum scarrss on yer shooorttts. 0 -
amaferanga wrote:What are you trying to get out of your cycling WIll? If it's just for enjoyment and you like doing long rides, lots of miles and are happy with your current average speeds and ability, then it sounds like you just need to look a bit at your nutrition, particularly on the bike. Then carry on doing what you're doing, but take a rest week now and then. It will do your cycling no harm at all if you have a week where you only do 100 miles or less every couple of months.
But since you seem obsessive about even the smallest apparent decline in performance it doesn't seem to me that you are just happy with lots of miles. So what's motivating you? Are you planning on racing or TTing next year? Or do you want to do sportives? Or is it all about impressing folks on Bikeradar with your average speeds?
It does sound like you want to improve (whatever that may mean) so you need to start training a bit smarter.
This is a nice summary of what we have all been highlighting.
He does need to clarify why the numbers mean so much and is understandable if he is getting competitive. Otherwise you are wasting your time with the av speeds and mileage if your not enjoying it or are unwell.
Will obviously has the commitment to cycling and is churning out some respectable distances/speeds, the over-training is something he has just accepted from this thread.
The adequate rest and change of nutrition go hand in hand in improving the performance to the next level.0 -
No I just like to ride at a decent pace to know I'm doing ok, it's frustrating cycling at under 18 mph because it becomes such a grind, and in general I just enjoy pushing hard on the bike and when it comes to hills I enjoy seeking the hardest hills and climbing them.
It's always nice when you get a high average speed, and I think most people think this. And regardless what people think, on the same routes, especially this year, higher average speed = improvement, because the conditions have not being massively different on the days I do certain routes, apart from rain.0 -
I dont know you at all and this is not intended to be insulting or hurtful in any way. Neither do I want to be a scaremonger but...
Others have wondered if you are diabetic.
I wonder whether you have a hormone imbalance - thyroid? or perhaps are suffereing from Lyme disease/Borrelia.
the tell tale sign was sleepiness/yawning /not getting enough air. I had this prior to developing an inflamed heart sac. You wont miss it - it was painful and scary. I got by exercising far too much while carrying an infection. My heart raced all by itself some days and that was scary too.
If you are worried about your health get it checked by a GP that is interested and has time to listen to you - few and far between but they do exist. And consider that your riding miles are perhaps a sign of some other issues you need to deal with - depression perhaps.
0 -
freehub wrote:No I just like to ride at a decent pace to know I'm doing ok, it's frustrating cycling at under 18 mph because it becomes such a grind, and in general I just enjoy pushing hard on the bike and when it comes to hills I enjoy seeking the hardest hills and climbing them.
It's always nice when you get a high average speed, and I think most people think this. And regardless what people think, on the same routes, especially this year, higher average speed = improvement, because the conditions have not being massively different on the days I do certain routes, apart from rain.
Its all in your head. You sound like you have some form of OCD.
While average speed may be a reasonable LONG TERM indicator of improvement (i.e. looking at a graph of your average speeds for a given ride for a period of several months and looking for an upward trend), the way you use it to distinguish a good ride from a bad ride is verging on the ridiculous.More problems but still living....0 -
Agree with the above, speed is nothing really, I do training rides slower than you, yet I race a hell of alot faster than that. Rides should be judge by effort to be honest, either by HRM or a powermeter, or even perceived effort, speed is just to variable to judge anything by.0
-
I did a 'Chain Gang' session on the road yesterday, at the times I was pushing hard I was only doing 22/23mph whereas previously I have done 26/27.
The power was similar though, maybe even a little more yesterday than last couple of times.
Too many variables to focus on speed.
My way of measuring hard training rides = power
My way of measuring recovery rides = HR
My way of measuring long or 'endurance' rides = Did I enjoy it? If so, it was a good ride.0 -
Well I won't be taking my eye off speed anytime soon, it's a habbit that is hard to brake.
And if I've got any OCD, or any problem as another poster said, then I'll never know, because the doctors are useless and just fob me off.
For years now I've had 2 of the symptoms on this page
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/basics_star ... igns_2.htm
One being fatigue, exactly how it decribes it, and the other one anxiety, I am constantly worried unless I'm on the bike, by that I mean, when I'm away from stuff, I'm happy. And my mood is up and down like a yoyo frequently taking proper nose dives.
But if I told the doctor that, they'd fob me off saying it's nowt, so it's not even worth the hassle because maybe the anxiety is normal and the excuse for sleep from the doctor would be saying it's probably that time of my life, you know, like lazy teens staying in bed from 12 to 12.0 -
freehub wrote:Well I won't be taking my eye off speed anytime soon, it's a habbit that is hard to brake.
And if I've got any OCD, or any problem as another poster said, then I'll never know, because the doctors are useless and just fob me off.
For years now I've had 2 of the symptoms on this page
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/basics_star ... igns_2.htm
One being fatigue, exactly how it decribes it, and the other one anxiety, I am constantly worried unless I'm on the bike, by that I mean, when I'm away from stuff, I'm happy. And my mood is up and down like a yoyo frequently taking proper nose dives.
But if I told the doctor that, they'd fob me off saying it's nowt, so it's not even worth the hassle because maybe the anxiety is normal and the excuse for sleep from the doctor would be saying it's probably that time of my life, you know, like lazy teens staying in bed from 12 to 12.
Will,
Seriously mate, get to the doctor, you don't know what they say until you speak to one. Tell them EVERYTHING.
Your writings on here sound to me like you may have an issue with depression. Obviously I am not a doctor but I have some experience of such things.
Get yourself checked out, what harm can it do?0 -
Just go to the pharmacy and tell them that you've self-diagnosed with Google and that you need medication. I'm sure they'll understand. What do doctors know eh?More problems but still living....0
-
I'd estimate that 99 % of your woes are caused by a poor diet.
To that end i'd like you to keep a food diary and post the results here thus proving my theory of your post ride malaise.0 -
The doctors are as useful as a chocolate firegaurd, they just referred me for a bloody blood test which will most likely come back same as last time, everything fine apart from being borderline anemic which is of no problem according to the doctors.0
-
freehub wrote:The doctors are as useful as a chocolate firegaurd, they just referred me for a bloody blood test which will most likely come back same as last time, everything fine apart from being borderline anemic which is of no problem according to the doctors.
Stupid blood tests! They don't show anything!
Jeez mate, does it not occur to you that it maybe that your borderline anaemia has become worse? Look at the big picture...0 -
Agree with getting yourself checked out properly, there is certainly an issue that needs attention.0
-
Borderline anemic might be no problem for your average Joe, who doesn't exercise much, but for someone who does quite a few miles, it is likely to be a problem.
If your current doctor doesn't help with the issue, go to another doctor, even at the same surgery. Tell them exactly what you do exercise wise, and tell them how you are feeling. They should do something to help with the problem.
Just say you iron levels have dipped quite a bit, if they are already lowish, that is not going to help you at all.
Seriously if you don't feel well in yourself, get to a doctor. I hate going to the doctors, but any issues with my health and I am straight there.0
