Recovery time from hard rides?
Comments
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Don't be worried about taking rest, its this way of thinking that very often causes problems. You don't need to take a week off as doing so will make anyone feel poor upon training again. You could still ride most days but at a greatly reduced duration and reduced intensity as well for many of them. If you feel better after a while then feel free to push it on some rides (intensity wise not duration) but not too much too soon.freehub wrote:I'll rest, but I worry taking a week off is gonna be as bad as doing too much on the bike, since last time I took a week off I felt crap. Unless steady rides around 130-140bpm are ok in a "rest" week?
Its always hard to say exactly what to do without knowing you but it seems highly likely that more rest is needed and it is best to side towards taking too much rest than to take too little rest.
If you are consistently feeling poor or worse than you had been previously then questions need to be asked and adjustments need to be made.
I hope this helps but just do not be at all stressed about taking a break and having more rest.
Best of luck (and chill)
Murr X0 -
Well when I get home I try to have a glass of milk, but I have to avoid that as it makes my mum go mental when she sees me using the milk. I eat dinners really, tonight we had some stew or something, lots of veggys and meat and usually it's like that, or steak pie
I have a ham and pinapple cottage cheese sarnie too sometimes.
Thanks Murr X, I will give it some rest, no long rides at the weekend or hard rides for a week or so, I might do one of these leg spinners that has being said, maybe like 15 miles, or an hour steady sometime as I'm bound to get bored or the parents start arguing so that's an opportunity to go out.0 -
His rides are almost as long as his posts are getting.
If you want advice, listen to it. Stop riding as much.
the end0 -
Sounds like you need to eat a lot more, during and after exercise, and in general.
250 miles must be a good 10,000 additional calories a week.
That is an awful lot of food that you should be consuming over and above what a normal person would eat.0 -
600 to 800 calories per hour are burnt at a brisk pace. So at 19 mph average for 360 miles thats...er....er...19 hours approx spent cycling that week, therefore:
19x600 cals = 11,400 calories burnt
19x800 cals = 15,200 calories burnt
Keep munching.CAAD9
Kona Jake the Snake
Merlin Malt 40 -
I must be eating plenty as I'm got quite abit of fat on my stomach and chest, which I guess suggests I'm consuming more claories than I'm burning?
I was thinking that perhaps I need to cut down on my food, I usually have 3 meals per day and little snacks between.
I've just had breakfast this morning, smaller bowl than usual and despite feeling hungry inbetween meals I'm trying to ignore it as I reckon it's more phsycological.Scrumple wrote:His rides are almost as long as his posts are getting.
If you want advice, listen to it. Stop riding as much.
the end
No one has told me to stop riding as much, maybe you think I'm doing 3-4 100+ mile rides a week but the reality is I'm only doing 1. 100 miles is long to some people, but to me 100 miles is like a 50-60 mile ride to some people as I'm so used to them. I'm taking the advice and resting, I might do a leg spinner I don't know.0 -
If you're doing a 5 hour ride you're burning somewhere around 3,000 calories. If I do that I aim to eat and drink most of 2,000 on the bike which is around 8 energy bars (less with energy drink. Yes I probably overeat on the bike!).
From what you've written your overtraining symptoms are at least partly caused by riding long distances on not much food then eating after the ride to try and recover. If you eat on the bike your body has some easy energy to come by and won't have to go so deep into your reserves. Get that right and you'll be able to go long distances day on day (for a while).0 -
freehub wrote:How does recovery start on the bike?
Essentially your body stores a finite amount of energy. Fuel yourself properly on a ride and you won't have to dig too much into these reserves, otherwise you'll end up depleted after a couple of days. If you're stage racing for instance you eat all the time, before, during and after the stage."A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
I know snickers ain't the best, but should I have actually ate around 4 rather than 2 to get the required amount of energy? Problem is I never feel hungry on the bike, so I struggle to eat.
On club runs we usually have a cafe stop and I might have a breakfast or beans on toast.0 -
freehub wrote:I must be eating plenty as I'm got quite abit of fat on my stomach and chest,
means nothing.
calorie deficit = muscle depletion too
how do you know its fat you are looking at?? could be water or skin or a full stomach
on my long 4 hour rides, if I average 140 watts (ftp: 252 w) it comes in above 2000 kcal and i'm sheeeet!
some better riders I have known can do 5000 kcal in 6 hours.0 -
freehub wrote:I know snickers ain't the best, but should I have actually ate around 4 rather than 2 to get the required amount of energy? Problem is I never feel hungry on the bike, so I struggle to eat.
On club runs we usually have a cafe stop and I might have a breakfast or beans on toast.
Hmmm - if you're not feeling hungry on the bike could it be because you've spent the time since your previous ride piling in the food and stocking up your energy reserves, so when you start riding the tank is full, so to speak? Then during the ride your energy steadily decreases so then you spend the next day scoffing again to re-fuel. If that's the case your eating / fuelling seems a bit 'all or nothing' to me - maybe if you ate less off the bike then you'd start with less fuel in the tank & you'd need to eat more on the bike. I guess that's just a long-winded way of saying 'spread your calorie intake out more'.
Aren't Snickers and other such stuff just junk sugar rushes that give you a short term lift then leave you feeling worse? Something to do with blood sugar levels? Would a snack with a lower GI be better?0 -
Banana, It is deffo fat I can gaurantee it! And it makes me look out of proportion as when you see me with clothes on you'd not think I had any fat on me, then if you seen my stomach you'd be surprised as there is much fat there and it's not right.
I dunno wtf is up with me, went out today and I felt totally weak, I only felt ok doing 15mph and then all I was doing was constantly yawning, felt totally weak, yet I had spaghetti Bolognaise about 1 hour before I went out!
Not riding tomoz, well I might eat quite abit tonight, eat something large in the morning, and go do a short ride of 20 miles and see how I feel, cause I am feeling utterly trash at the moment.
The annoying thing is, before I went out I was feeling strong, then I get on the bike and all performance I have just goes straight outa the window.
I'm guessing it's obviously overtraining no doubt about it, what annoys me is I have more rest than alot of people, some people only have one or 2 rest days a week and do not suffer from overtraining, where as I am having 3-4 rest days a week and I'm suffering from it.
Pollys Bott, I don't know about snickers, I think they have some good nutrients in aswell, as in stuff that lasts abit longer, it does have nuts in too. I can't be making my own flapjack as it seems a faf and quite expensive, and there is bugger all of it in the shops.
It's annoying I'm sat here and don't feel too bad, it's like I've suddenly gone backwards about 2 years in performance where I was thinking I'd love to be averaging 18.5mph.
I know mph is nothing but I've being able to hapilly do 20mph average without pushing too hard, at the moment that is not the case.
I'm not going to stop riding and take loads of rest as I'll have bugger all to do then, I'm going to keep riding frequently, shorter distances for the next couple of weeks and steadier, then after the couple of weeks I will start riding as I normally would. If that does not work then I will consider taking 6 weeks off doing any cycling on the road and then start from square 1.
One of these ideas must work cause I don't know what else will work.0 -
Personally if i was doing the mileage you're doing every week (and im guessing its not just for pleasure but also for some sporting purpose) then I'd suggest you get yourself a qualified sports coach and diet specialist.
Sounds to me like your body has been overtrained and now you're suffering for it. Plus you are not doing yourself any favours mentally with being fixated (at least it appears to be) with your average speed. Use it as a ball park figure only as there are other factors out there that will determine what your actual ride time will be.Its Italian, its carbon.....and some lanky tool rides it.0 -
I'm not fixated, just I know when I feel good and just ride, then my average speed is likely to be between 19 and 20. And when it's not, it is not due to conditions, but due to my fitness.
It's annoying because I feel I want to go on the bike, I don't feel bad today, I'd have thought my legs wouldd be recovered and I don't feel tired, but if I go on the bike it all goes tits up.0 -
It's diet. Not rest, or training, but diet that is affecting you.
No matter what anyone will say to you I'm pretty sure you won't change it and you'll argue till blue in the face that you think your's is fine but there it is...
I have such limited training yet with the right diet and training I have been getting better and better results.
Diet affects everything, recovery, performance on the bike, mood and sleep.
You need to get it sorted but you need to accept that or you'll never improve like you want to.0 -
As an aside, I bumped into someone recently on a ride who talked non-stop but seemed fairly oblivious to the replies they received from others and wouldn't maintain eye contact. They seemingly had an obsessive fascination with very precise numbers relating to this ride and an encyclopaedic recall of previous rides' stats: distances, speeds, number of people they'd overtaken, etc., and by all accounts appeared fixated on riding long and ever longer distances.
"For fifty pounds, name... that condition!"0 -
rdt, that has nothing to do with me, I don't have an obsession with numbers no matter what people think.
So what do I need to change in my diet?
I'm guessing I must be eating all the wrong things, the sunday roasts my mum cooks, the stew, the various meat dishes something msut be wrong with them?
I am too confused now, people say the problems are:
Too many miles
Your rides are too long
Your diet
Your recovery
Over the last 7 weeks all the iles I have being doing are:
290 miles
160 miles
290 miles
260 miles
210 miles
250 miles
90 miles
To me that's not anything out of the ordinary. I'm finding it hard to destinguish which is genuine advice on the forum and which is advice where people are telling me I am blatently doing something but seems like it's more of it's blatently doing something that is not right for them.
If I am overtrianing I am overtrianing, but I refuse to cut down the mileage or do shorter rides. with the current mileage I am doing, I'm only going to be doing around 9000 miles a year which is small compared to some. And no, I'm not trying to do as many miles as I possibly can despite what people think, I go out, do a ride, I plan where I want to go, if it's 80 miles it is 80 miles, if it's 50 miles, we it's 50 miles, if it only happens to be 25 miles, well then be it, if it so happens to be 175 miles, then so be it....0 -
freehub wrote:rdt, that has nothing to do with me, I don't have an obsession with numbers no matter what people think.
So what do I need to change in my diet?
I'm guessing I must be eating all the wrong things, the sunday roasts my mum cooks, the stew, the various meat dishes something msut be wrong with them?
Where are your Carbs coming from? I think we've all agreed that it's your diet that needs to change. Is your Mum cooking for the benefit of the whole family or specifically for the benefit of her ultra-fit, endurance athlete son? I'll bet it's the former. Put another way, you may well be eating lots, but that doesn't necessarily mean you are eating well!
Instead of listing the mileage or the Avg speed or your HR on a given ride, could you perhaps list precisely what you've eaten over the same period and almost as importantly, when you ate it? That might give some better clues as to why you're feeling the way you are.0 -
Well the 180 miler I did, I took with me 3 energy gels, 5 Torq Bars, I ate 4 of them, I was eating them regular and saving the gels for the later miles of the journey. At about 110 miles we had a stop at a cafe and I ate a breakfast, 2x Bacon, 2x Sausage, 3x Tomatoea, 1 egg and 1half of bread, aswell as one of those small bowls of jam and a mini jug of cream.
Then when I did the 80miler on Wednesday I took with me 2x mars bars, 2x snickers bars and 1 torq bar, I ate 2 snickers, probs the first one about 25 miles in, only like half of it, then probably at the same intervals.
When I get home I usually eat the dinner that is made and then a ham and cottage cheese sarnie later on.
When I am in Manchester I was doing ok and was never eating proper meals, I was recovering quicker and getting less protein, I ate lots of pasta, hardly any fruit, I eat much more fruit now aswell as drinking more milk too.
In the morning for bresakfast I usually have weatabix or weataflakes if I can get food down me, if I wake up around 11-12 I get a ready meal.0 -
What are you trying to get out of your cycling WIll? If it's just for enjoyment and you like doing long rides, lots of miles and are happy with your current average speeds and ability, then it sounds like you just need to look a bit at your nutrition, particularly on the bike. Then carry on doing what you're doing, but take a rest week now and then. It will do your cycling no harm at all if you have a week where you only do 100 miles or less every couple of months.
But since you seem obsessive about even the smallest apparent decline in performance it doesn't seem to me that you are just happy with lots of miles. So what's motivating you? Are you planning on racing or TTing next year? Or do you want to do sportives? Or is it all about impressing folks on Bikeradar with your average speeds?
It does sound like you want to improve (whatever that may mean) so you need to start training a bit smarter. If you can't work out how to do this by yourself then maybe you need at least to purchase a training plan to get you on the right track. You post a lot on the training forum and people give you good advice, but it seems to me like you ignore most of it.More problems but still living....0 -
It's not just what you eat on the ride it's what you eat before and after too. And on recovery/rest days...0
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freehub wrote:NapoleonD wrote:It's not just what you eat on the ride it's what you eat before and after too. And on recovery/rest days...
What do you eat? Before/during/after and on recovery days.
What my nutritionist told me to!
I'm not going in to it in detail (I paid for the privilege) but it involves the right carbs at the right times but also eating the right protein and good fats. Amongst other things...
Basically, mostly healthy unprocessed stuff. (Baked beans = processed...)0 -
Like a student can have a diet like you describe..........
I reckon I eat healthier than alot of people my age, I hardly touch alcohol compared to most students too.0 -
Will diet will have a part, but from what you have said your diet isn't all that bad, and certainly shouldn't stop you riding well. You will be getting plenty of carbs and protein from roast dinners, and stews and the like, you don't need to eat pasta, bread and loads of potatoes to get the carbs in, fresh fruit and veg is the best way to do this.
Obviously if you haven't got the money, you can't eat the best food, but to be honest I don't worry about eating the right foods at the right time, the body has an amazing ability to process most foods, just avoid those foods that are nutritionally empty.
Just as an aside, I have been doing loads of rides recently, and long rides on back to back days, I probably under eat on the bike, like you I struggle to eat on the bike. I was doing 120+ rides on less than you quoted, but with proper recovery drinks at the end of the ride, was able to do the same the next day.
The last 7 weeks mileage, that may have caught up with you, take an easy week and see if things improve. It could be you have a bug of some sort, and you are just feeling wiped out because of that.
It could be loads of things to be honest, but if you are used to those sorts of mileage, and they have been the normal for a while, I think it is unlikely to be overtraining. If you had suddenly ramped up the mileage then overtraining would be very likely. If you have overtrained, and it is not for a forum to diagnose that really, then back off, don't just carry on, it will only get worse.0 -
Thanks for that.
I've not rode today, tomorrow I plan to go out, I'm probably going to put my HRM on and do maybe 20ish miles at 140bpm and under, if I feel good I might do a few very short intervals, like a sprint or something.
If I don't ride tomoz then the next time I will ride is Tuesday, I plan to do around 50ish miles on tuesday providing I feel fit to do so.
Today I've just felt proper tired, despite having nearly 11 hours sleep I needed a nap earlier, I'm going to sleep around 12 and going to force myself up around 8-9, it's just frustrating because when I'm not feeling tired, like now, I feel ok.
Deffo an easy week tho and probably next Saturday do a "steadier" ride, still be around 100 miles though.0 -
freehub wrote:I don't have an obsession with numbers no matter what people think.
Over the last 7 weeks all the iles I have being doing are:
290 miles
160 miles
290 miles
260 miles
210 miles
250 miles
90 miles
I did a 50k team TT last weekend, longest ride I've done all year!0 -
a_n_t wrote:freehub wrote:I don't have an obsession with numbers no matter what people think.
Over the last 7 weeks all the iles I have being doing are:
290 miles
160 miles
290 miles
260 miles
210 miles
250 miles
90 miles
I did a 50k team TT last weekend, longest ride I've done all year!
What, I'm sure you had a 40mile club run planned? And I'm sure I seen you on a club run earlier this year.0 -
freehub wrote:I am too confused now, people say the problems are:
Too many miles
Your rides are too long
Your diet
Your recovery
Yes, but those four issues aren't mutually exclusive - they're all inter-linked to a greater or lesser extent.freehub wrote:Over the last 7 weeks all the iles I have being doing are:
290 miles
160 miles
290 miles
260 miles
210 miles
250 miles
90 miles
To me that's not anything out of the ordinary.
If I am overtrianing I am overtrianing, but I refuse to cut down the mileage or do shorter rides. with the current mileage I am doing, I'm only going to be doing around 9000 miles a year which is small compared to some
That mileage might not be out of the ordinary but your body is obviously telling you that it's not happy doing it at the minute. Sorry mate, but saying 'if I'm overtraining then I'm overtraining, but I refuse to cut down the mileage or do shorter rides' is just bonkers - it's like an alcoholic saying ''yeah I know my liver is knackered, make mine a double please.' I can understand you being frustrated not knowing why you're not on form but I can't see how continuing to hammer out the miles is going to help. Why does it matter that you're 'only going to be doing around 9000 miles?' Have you promised a charity that you will ride 10000 miles this year and get them loads of money when you do it? And who cares that it's 'small compared to some?' You're going to do about five times my mileage this year, but I've got a full-time job, two young kids, a big garden and an allotment to look after and a list of DiY jobs that Tommy Walsh would run from...
Just take it easy - I used to do a lot of rowing and there was a chap there who trained his socks off and carried on regardless despite being obviously run-down and under the weather. End result was permanent heart damage which somewhat restricts his ability to exercise flat-out for any length of time. Also bear in mind an experience I had many years ago: for about a month I was totally and utterly knackered with no energy or strength to do much at all. Nothing obvious triggered it, doctor did blood tests and found nowt, and nothing obvious ended it - just appeared to be my body wanting a rest for a bit. Yours might be wanting one too...0 -
I never said I was not going to rest, I said that when I am fine to cycle properly again I refuse to cut down the length of rides and limit mileage. When I am in Manchester I will ride on Sat/Sun rather than just one day a week here, as in Manchester I do something like 60-80 miles on Saturday, then the same on Sunday, but I recovery much, much, much quicker, they're alot easier because they are with a group and shorter, allthough I do like to one one hilly when it gets to winter, 5000+ft of ascent.
I'm in no danger of having permenant heart damage lol... I don't go out when I'm run down.
Not cycling at all today, that is 4 days of doing no high intensity work, I went out on Friday and did 24 miles steadyish, mainly did no more because I felt crap, as if my V02 max suddenly was alot lower and I could never get enough oxygen in, constantly trying to breath deep and always yawning.0
