NY Times - Cyclists are said to back claims Armstrong doped

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  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    whiteboytrash wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    whiteboytrash wrote:
    Its all over.

    
    Citing anonymous sources, The Journal reported in a story posted on its website Friday that Landis has filed a suit under the federal False Claims Act. The law allows Americans to sue on behalf of the government alleging the government has been defrauded.

    It's all over WHAT? Or should I ask WHAT'S all over?
    :? :? :?

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_ ... l?r=sports

    Lance Armstrong and his closest supporters are named as defendants in a whistle-blower lawsuit Armstrong's former teammate Floyd Landis brought under the federal False Claims Act earlier this year but kept confidential until now.

    Landis, who has accused Armstrong of hardcore doping, named Armstrong and his corporate backers Bart Knaggs, Bill Stapleton, and Thom Weisel in the complaint, according to a person familiar with the situation, as well as Johan Bruyneel, the sport director who oversaw Armstrong's teams.

    The complaint was first reported by The Wall Street Journal. Details of the lawsuit remain under seal, but a person with knowledge of the case said defendants were recently notified of it by the Justice Department.

    Other defendants include Tailwind Sports Corporation, Tailwind LLC, Montgomery Sports, Inc., and Capital Sports and Entertainment - all corporate entities that backed Armstrong's teams over the past decade.

    So what exactly is it thats supposed to be all over here ?
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    Gazzaputt wrote:
    For me even if he came out and said 'Yea I doped' I'd still hold him in high esteem. Firstly for beating cancer as he did and secondly for sticking two fingers up at the French, especially Cofidis, cycling fraternity and pissing on their parade.
    Your comments illustrate well the fact that, as I have previously pointed out, many people are fanboys of Armstrong for reasons other than the way he rode a bike. For example the way he represents the myth that all success needs is 'hard work' and the way he has exploited and fed anti-French xenophobia, especially in the US.
    Kléber wrote:
    He only got uppity a couple of times with the French, first moving to Spain when the French started a bio passport (Moreau and Jalabert did the same, only to Switzerland) and then later when under pressure trying some anti-French stuff.
    I hardly think that amounts to a single instance though, more like a continuing campaign over a number of years.
    whiteboytrash wrote:
    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_ ... l?r=sports
    It may not all be over, chronologically speaking, but this story is very significant in that it means Landis is ensuring that all the evidence relating to Armstrong's doping and corruption will reach the public arena, even if the Novitsky investigation is shelved.

    The 'Betsy Andreau tapes' are also significant in that they corroborate the evidence Greg Lemond has showing that McIlvain lied under oath when she denied that she had heard Armstrong confess to doping. All it needs is for McIlvain to admit that she lied because Armstrong had threatened her and pressured here to commit perjury and Armstrong is in deep do-dah.
  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    Some interesting stuff about the ways in which Novitsky might be going about his investigation:

    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5516/Floyd-Landis-Investigation-What-will-prosecutors-be-looking-for-if-there-is-a-money-trail.aspx

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    iainf72 wrote:
    More stuff

    http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-lan ... 8173.story?

    Sounds like Betsy has some stuff Bernie didn't have in his archive....

    And here's another take on the story about Betsy's hidden tapes:

    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5497/Andreus-interviewed-in-Floyd-Landis-Investigation-voicemails-given-to-investigators.aspx

    No need to thank me.

    imper-columbo.jpg

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    whiteboytrash wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    whiteboytrash wrote:
    Its all over.

    
    Citing anonymous sources, The Journal reported in a story posted on its website Friday that Landis has filed a suit under the federal False Claims Act. The law allows Americans to sue on behalf of the government alleging the government has been defrauded.

    It's all over WHAT? Or should I ask WHAT'S all over?
    :? :? :?

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_ ... l?r=sports

    Lance Armstrong and his closest supporters are named as defendants in a whistle-blower lawsuit Armstrong's former teammate Floyd Landis brought under the federal False Claims Act earlier this year but kept confidential until now.

    Landis, who has accused Armstrong of hardcore doping, named Armstrong and his corporate backers Bart Knaggs, Bill Stapleton, and Thom Weisel in the complaint, according to a person familiar with the situation, as well as Johan Bruyneel, the sport director who oversaw Armstrong's teams.

    The complaint was first reported by The Wall Street Journal. Details of the lawsuit remain under seal, but a person with knowledge of the case said defendants were recently notified of it by the Justice Department.

    Other defendants include Tailwind Sports Corporation, Tailwind LLC, Montgomery Sports, Inc., and Capital Sports and Entertainment - all corporate entities that backed Armstrong's teams over the past decade.

    So that's the end of it huh? Can you give me a list of who's in what jail and for how long? I must have missed that news somehow. And when was the trial? I gotta keep up with events more.
  • Bronzie
    Bronzie Posts: 4,927
    Is this the real motivation behind Landis's confessions?
    The U.S. government can choose to intervene in Landis’ lawsuit and pursue the case on its own behalf, while Landis would collect up to 30 percent of the money recovered by the government if the lawsuit were successful

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/landis- ... er-lawsuit
    It's a Lifestyle! -+-+- Coggan Training Levels
  • cajun_cyclist
    cajun_cyclist Posts: 493
    For me even if he came out and said 'Yea I doped' I'd still hold him in high esteem. Firstly for beating cancer as he did and secondly for sticking two fingers up at the French, especially Cofidis, cycling fraternity and pissing on their parade.
    Your comments illustrate well the fact that, as I have previously pointed out, many people are fanboys of Armstrong for reasons other than the way he rode a bike. For example the way he represents the myth that all success needs is 'hard work' and the way he has exploited and fed anti-French xenophobia, especially in the US.

    I agree the xenophobia they have played with is wrong but as for hard work, sports heroes are sports heroes, it be Zidane, S. Gerrard or anyone. People project themselves on their heroes and of course, sports teams, even countries competing but of course, this is not to deny that Armstrong has represented himself as a hard worker and in fact, a student of the rides they take, studying every hairpin curve at the TdF, etc.. That is always made out to be a big deal.

    One other factor that is interesting but hasn't been discussed much is the way Lance says in the book "It's not about the bike" how basically he is an atheist. OK, for a country in fact, England has a good amount of atheists but for an Irishmen Walsh to point that out in his book it an interesting contrast. Not only that, it has always been a bit of a contradiction to me about Lance's "miracles" line and then to bring up info that at times, he has been an atheist. How about when young Frederick Nolf died at the Tour of Qatar, I believe LA twittered out on his webpage how his thoughts and prayers were with Nolf's family and friends. You know, if there is one thing that can fly in Texas, it would be to be a fundamental religious type person, yet, Lance has never been that way.

    As for the LA Times story, well again, I believe that part is in the book "From Lance to Landis" as far as those tapes having existed but what has changed must be that someone may actually hear the audio. But just being interested in the truth, I am glad we have this evidence as a counterpoint to the claim that what was said by the Andreus lacks substance totally, in fact, it was discussed in depth basically in one of these threads, saying things in the confidentiality to one's own physician, etc., saying this could not have happened.
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    Bronzie wrote:
    Is this the real motivation behind Landis's confessions?
    The U.S. government can choose to intervene in Landis’ lawsuit and pursue the case on its own behalf, while Landis would collect up to 30 percent of the money recovered by the government if the lawsuit were successful
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/landis- ... er-lawsuit
    Perhaps Landis is simply ensuring that the truth about Armstrong's history of doping, intimidation and fraud will still reach the public arena, even if the Novitsky investigation is shelved.
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    cajun_cyclist wrote:
    As for the LA Times story, well again, I believe that part is in the book "From Lance to Landis" as far as those tapes having existed but what has changed must be that someone may actually hear the audio.
    Actually, the tape where Stephanie McIlvain says to Greg Lemond that she heard Armstrong admit to doping has been in the public arena for years...

    http://j.b5z.net/i/u/2132106/m/gregstef.mp3
  • deejay
    deejay Posts: 3,138
    cajun_cyclist wrote:

    Lance says in the book "It's not about the bike" how basically he is an atheist. OK, for a country in fact, England has a good amount of atheists but for an Irishmen Walsh to point that out in his book it an interesting contrast. Not only that, it has always been a bit of a contradiction to me about Lance's "miracles" .

    is in the book "From Lance to Landis" .
    You read his books then.?
    I have never had that inclination to read anything from him and his ego trips and what a clever boy he is.
    I don't need to know the content as there is much the same as we can hear Politicians saying.
    (as a point of no interest - I wouldn't touch anything with a barge pole that had Beckhams name on it either)

    I did say in an earlier post that all Novisky is doing is going along a well trodden path so far and giving the Texan a lot of stress with it being churned over again in a more public place. :lol:
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • cajun_cyclist
    cajun_cyclist Posts: 493
    deejay wrote:
    cajun_cyclist wrote:

    Lance says in the book "It's not about the bike" how basically he is an atheist. OK, for a country in fact, England has a good amount of atheists but for an Irishmen Walsh to point that out in his book it an interesting contrast. Not only that, it has always been a bit of a contradiction to me about Lance's "miracles" .

    is in the book "From Lance to Landis" .
    You read his books then.?
    I have never had that inclination to read anything from him and his ego trips and what a clever boy he is.
    I don't need to know the content as there is much the same as we can hear Politicians saying.
    (as a point of no interest - I wouldn't touch anything with a barge pole that had Beckhams name on it either)

    I did say in an earlier post that all Novisky is doing is going along a well trodden path so far and giving the Texan a lot of stress with it being churned over again in a more public place. :lol:

    First off, Lance's own book, 1st book, is thought to be largely ghost written. 2nd, I already had preconceived notions on LA. Pro or Con, that book is surely one of the biggest "cycling" books ever and I know, you can't put it strictly in the cycling category if at all. Personally, I had a cynical attitude while reading it. As a book, it's not all that bad. I'm sure David Walsh and Biking Bernie have read it too. As to whether I read it free or bought it is irrelevant.

    It is interesting to read of Lance Armstrong's accident he had years ago which is probably like or at least understandable in regards to the cycling we all do and that was that he use to train in Texas and in the Dallas area trying to out run red lights, trying to make the light before it changed colour and in one instance, yes, he landed under the wheels of a big truck and I believe suffered some serious injuries.

    The book basically centres around his experiences related to cancer. Someone, some woman I believe actually (ghost) writes the book with his input.
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    Floyd's latest legal action raises some questions

    1. Has he heard thay Novitsky's case will likely not be prosecuted?

    2. Floyd is broke, so who is paying for this legal action?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Dave_1 wrote:
    Floyd's latest legal action raises some questions

    1. Has he heard thay Novitsky's case will likely not be prosecuted?

    2. Floyd is broke, so who is paying for this legal action?

    1) Unlikely. If you look at the way he's playing it so far, it's very measured and careful. He's getting some really good advise. He may well have been asked by the Feds to consider doing it to help them along.

    2) His legal firm provide a lot of assistance pro-bono. http://www.wsgr.com/WSGR/Display.aspx?S ... me=probono

    Although Lemond may be assisting with the bills.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    iainf72 wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    Floyd's latest legal action raises some questions

    1. Has he heard thay Novitsky's case will likely not be prosecuted?

    2. Floyd is broke, so who is paying for this legal action?

    1) Unlikely. If you look at the way he's playing it so far, it's very measured and careful. He's getting some really good advise. He may well have been asked by the Feds to consider doing it to help them along.

    2) His legal firm provide a lot of assistance pro-bono. http://www.wsgr.com/WSGR/Display.aspx?S ... me=probono

    Although Lemond may be assisting with the bills.

    1.Iain, but why would Landis instigate what could potentiially be a second running prosecution, assuming FDA also prosecutes. What is Landis's thinking?

    2. if Landis loses, who pays? And Lemond...well, if Landis is broke, then it's likely Lemond who's got him a deal on fees or is bankrolling his new lawsuit
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • lucybears
    lucybears Posts: 366
    French agency ready to hand over Armstrong samples
    http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=ap ... -armstrong
    interview.cyclingfever.com
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    More great self-publicity from Bodry.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    so basically a non story. They will hand the samples over if asked but so far they haven't been
  • Bronzie
    Bronzie Posts: 4,927
    Samples that have already been discreditted previously and are now presumably some way beyond their "best before" date
    It's a Lifestyle! -+-+- Coggan Training Levels
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    DaveyL wrote:
    More great self-publicity from Bodry.

    The day after the AFLD's annual report. I wonder if it's a way to deflect from the "we're really just as average as other ADA's"
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    The AFLD held a press conference today, seems the cycling media have picked up on his answer to a question about the samples.

    Bordry's main point today was that he wants more money as its hard to catch cheats. He has a knack for megaphone tactics.
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    iainf72 wrote:
    DaveyL wrote:
    More great self-publicity from Bodry.

    The day after the AFLD's annual report. I wonder if it's a way to deflect from the "we're really just as average as other ADA's"

    Oh well, at least we know where Wenger gets it from then... Or is it t'other way round.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • flattythehurdler
    flattythehurdler Posts: 2,314
    Bronzie wrote:
    Samples that have already been discreditted previously and are now presumably some way beyond their "best before" date

    If epo is a by product of stale urine, ther would be an awful smell of p1ss around the garages of cyclists, and far fewer clandestine 1,000 km drives.
    Dan
  • Bronzie
    Bronzie Posts: 4,927
    flattythehurdler wrote:
    Bronzie wrote:
    Samples that have already been discreditted previously and are now presumably some way beyond their "best before" date

    If epo is a by product of stale urine, ther would be an awful smell of p1ss around the garages of cyclists, and far fewer clandestine 1,000 km drives.
    I was thinking more along the lines of:
    - chain of custody issues and validity of testing samples that have been stored for so long (wasn't this the reason that the 2005 re-tests never went any further?)
    - statute of limitations for any doping offences committed 11+ years ago

    I don't think re-testing 11-year-old samples is the smoking gun that will officially discredit Armstrong once and for all.
    It's a Lifestyle! -+-+- Coggan Training Levels
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    no idea on if the samples are ok to be tested again but i'm sure the storage on them in fine.

    Wasn't there a test done that came back "too clean" i.e no human or synthetic EPO as if a masking agent had been used
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    It's just self-publicity from Bodry. Why do they need to re-test the samples? Do they not have confidence in the initial results? What would a re-test add to the information we already have?

    Perhaps he's trying to gatecrash this big game hunt party, so AFLD can claim some credit for taking down l'American, rather than the US Feds...
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    Bordry can't abuse his power and will likely not be able to do whatever he wishes. The guy isn't fit to test any samples from any athlete IMO
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    Two more stories on the hospital bed confession here:

    Ballsy Betsy's meeting with Novitsky
    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5699/Betsy-Andreu-speaks-about-Lance-Armstrongs-involvement-in-the-Floyd-Landis-investigation.aspx

    McIlvain and Lemond's phone recording to be used by Novitsky?
    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5686/LeMond-McIlvain-recording-to-be-used-in-Landis-investigation.aspx

    Read it and weep fan-boys!

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • itisaboutthebike
    itisaboutthebike Posts: 1,120
    Like I've said before................if anyone thinks Pharmstrong could win 7 Tours w/o doping is a dope........and the vast majority of people on this forum don't know jack shit about pro cycling.......I know I don't............
  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    Just three dots in an ellipsis please...

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    Just one dot at the end of a sentence please.

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