NY Times - Cyclists are said to back claims Armstrong doped

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  • deejay
    deejay Posts: 3,138
    Dave_1 wrote:
    you guys must be praying on a daily basis for Jeff'n to announce a court case.
    On my knees every night in the hope it might help.

    I too was on Miami Beach a month ago and I didn't hear the mouth. ?
    Lovely and warm though.
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    Oscar Freire also said same, bench riders, ban them but don let the media know. I don't agree but marketing professionals like JV and HTC staff...they should turn down the volume. Can see where LA is coming from.

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstro ... estigation
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    Yeah, mouthing off in the media is bad for the sport. Cycling in no way needs transparency. If you'd like to read more of LA's mouthing off to the media about, er, mouthing off to the media see below:

    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/6975/Armstrong-says-hes-not-dwelling-on-federal-investigation.aspx

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    While we await the WSJ's latest expose, it seems that the "dark place", also known as CyclingNew's clinic, have come up with a scoop of their own.
    Lance and his Tailwind connection. When did it start and what was his roll? (also Mr Bruyneel)
    Seems a document has turned up, over there:
    http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=11733

    :wink:
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    EPIC #FAIL
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    iainf72 wrote:
    EPIC #FAIL

    ?
    _
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    EPIC #FAIL

    ?
    Just a guess at Iain's meaning.
    page0001.jpg

    page0002.jpg

    +
    "I was a rider on the team. I was contracted with Tailwind Sports, I never had any dealings with the Postal Service - zero. I didn't own the company [Tailwind Sports]. I didn't have an equity stake. I didn't have a profit stake. I didn't have a seat on the board. I can't be any clearer than that."

    http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... r-not.html

    = EPIC# FAIL
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Turns out Armstrong took a salary from Astana, despite saying several times that he wasn't doing so:
    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/7078/ ... -2009.aspx

    I suppose it's possible the salary was paid into a charity account or some other explanation but like the "I was just a rider, never had much to do with Tailwind" claim, it seems he's either very careless when it comes to money and his business affairs or he was misleading people.
  • seemunkee
    seemunkee Posts: 206
    Since this was on the US Yahoo site I don't think any of you would have seen it.
    Armstrong bemoans cycling’s doping record

    http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=ap ... -armstrong
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    Gee, it must be great to have credibility. :roll:
    Q: During the training camp and at other times, you're wearing the Livestrong kit but your teammates are in the Astana kit. Could you tell me about that arrangement?

    L.A: Those guys are paid to race. I'm not paid to race. I'm racing as a volunteer for Livestrong. Legally, I can't wear Livestrong in the race or I would, but anytime outside of a race I am going to fulfill my commitment to my organization.

    Again, it would different if it were Discover Channel (his former team) and you were getting a big, fat salary. You have to train in that kit. But the fact that I'm not taking a salary from Astana means that I can wear what ever I want to wear, I think?
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Gee, it must be great to have credibility. :roll:
    Q: During the training camp and at other times, you're wearing the Livestrong kit but your teammates are in the Astana kit. Could you tell me about that arrangement?

    L.A: Those guys are paid to race. I'm not paid to race. I'm racing as a volunteer for Livestrong. Legally, I can't wear Livestrong in the race or I would, but anytime outside of a race I am going to fulfill my commitment to my organization.

    Again, it would different if it were Discover Channel (his former team) and you were getting a big, fat salary. You have to train in that kit. But the fact that I'm not taking a salary from Astana means that I can wear what ever I want to wear, I think?

    He's just getting slack in his old age.
    _
  • mfin
    mfin Posts: 6,729
    Is it actually possible that anyone who's watched cycling unfold in the last 20 years could possibly think that LA didn't dope? it just seems absolutely laughable to me... (and before some idiot mentions some 'LA bias', I mean, come on, common sense!!!!! I don't mind the guy, but I for one hope he gets 'done' just like anyone else who's ever done it, no more, no less).

    I cant believe for a single second that anyone in their right mind could presume the guy has 'never taken a thing', it is just an absolute joke (in the context of 'not just him' ...shitloads of them)

    Thanks to everyone who keeps these threads up-to-date with the real news though, cos it makes a good stop-off to see what's happening with it all.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    mfin wrote:
    ........ I don't mind the guy, but I for one hope he gets 'done' just like anyone else who's ever done it, no more, no less).

    And if or when he gets "done" this will make you feel how? When all the others have gotten "done" how did it make you feel? Superior in some way? What???? :? :?
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    dennisn wrote:
    mfin wrote:
    ........ I don't mind the guy, but I for one hope he gets 'done' just like anyone else who's ever done it, no more, no less).

    And if or when he gets "done" this will make you feel how? When all the others have gotten "done" how did it make you feel? Superior in some way? What???? :? :?

    Oh, I dunno, like 'Hey, there's one less cheater riding. Cool.' maybe?
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    edited January 2011
    @mfin
    You don't have to search too hard to find people that think Lance didn't dope. Essentially many take the view that if you don't test positive then you didn't dope. There are postings from people that don't accept you doped even when testing positive, because the rider in question has flair, makes stylish attacks and rides with panache.

    @Dennis
    We must like these circular arguments as we go round and round with no end in sight. What does how anyone feels matter, why do you question such irrelevant points. Surely when you read a paper or see a news broadcast you have some reaction, that's human nature, but it's not really the point here, is it? LA has ridden he publicity train, made a lot of money doing so, and yes I believe that quite a few people will enjoy seeing him taken down if it happens. He's never cared much who he's abused along the way has he? So why wouldn't people take a little pleasure in his downfall, should it take place.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    He cuts a very different figure in 2011 than he did in 2008.

    Before his comeback I always thought of Armstrong as a very complex character.

    Ever since, I see the very opposite.
    _
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    dougzz wrote:
    So why wouldn't people take a little pleasure in his downfall, should it take place.

    So you're going to sit back with a big "Ahhhhhhh, that felt good" if or when he, or anyone, gets "done"??? Seems, at the very least, a bit creepy to me.
  • Tom BB
    Tom BB Posts: 1,001
    dennisn wrote:
    So you're going to sit back with a big "Ahhhhhhh, that felt good" if or when he, or anyone, gets "done"??? Seems, at the very least, a bit creepy to me.

    Woah.....having an Armstrong v's Lemond twitter flashback reading that through!
  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    dennisn wrote:
    So you're going to sit back with a big "Ahhhhhhh, that felt good" if or when he, or anyone, gets "done"??? Seems, at the very least, a bit creepy to me.

    Where Lance is concerned I think it's a big if rather than a when, but should it happen I'll probably just think something along the lines of what goes around comes around. I have to confess when Ricco got done I was pleased, can't really explain why it's just an emotion. In Bertie's case I simply thought wow, what a surprise, which to be honest is my reaction to pretty much anyone, it's not like its easy to have real faith in any athlete these days.

    Do you not feel any emotion towards the people involved when you read or hear stories connected to things you like or have an interest in?
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,652
    dennisn wrote:
    dougzz wrote:
    So why wouldn't people take a little pleasure in his downfall, should it take place.

    So you're going to sit back with a big "Ahhhhhhh, that felt good" if or when he, or anyone, gets "done"??? Seems, at the very least, a bit creepy to me.

    Why on earth would it be creepy to take a small amount of pleasure (I'll hardly be popping champagne corks or organising a party) in seeing those that have damaged the sport we love pay for what they've done?
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Details of the USPS sponsorship

    http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/n ... YHeadlines
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,549
    $1.5 million in bonus payments for Armstrong from the 2001 Tour alone. That's quite some fraud he may have perpertrated, eh?
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    andyp wrote:
    $1.5 million in bonus payments for Armstrong from the 2001 Tour alone. That's quite some fraud he may have perpertrated, eh?

    The letter is quite an interesting read
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    dougzz wrote:
    So why wouldn't people take a little pleasure in his downfall, should it take place.

    So you're going to sit back with a big "Ahhhhhhh, that felt good" if or when he, or anyone, gets "done"??? Seems, at the very least, a bit creepy to me.

    Why on earth would it be creepy to take a small amount of pleasure (I'll hardly be popping champagne corks or organising a party) in seeing those that have damaged the sport we love pay for what they've done?


    Well, there are levels of creepy. Kinda creepy, creepy, and really creepy.
    Let's take, as an example, one of the more prolific Lance haters on this forum. No names but here's a hint. The chart. Now IF, and it's a big IF, this person is really serious about all the anti LA stuff he has posted, AND NOT just playing around(i.e. troll), then I find that really creepy. Sort of stalker type stuff. It's creepy, really creepy to be that obsessed about someone. Now, I'm somewhat obsessed with wanting to know why all the hatred and that makes me think of myself as a bit creepy. That's why the "creepy" comment.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    iainf72 wrote:
    andyp wrote:
    $1.5 million in bonus payments for Armstrong from the 2001 Tour alone. That's quite some fraud he may have perpertrated, eh?

    The letter is quite an interesting read

    The comments are flying in and they don't make for pretty reading.
    Seems the US public are turning their support into anger now that actual money figures have
    been revealed.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • inkyfingers
    inkyfingers Posts: 4,400
    iainf72 wrote:
    Details of the USPS sponsorship

    http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/n ... YHeadlines

    That links not working for me, anyone got an alternative?
    "I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)
  • theknowledge
    theknowledge Posts: 223
    Ok, so this is my first foray into a doping thread, so be gentle!

    All this seems very much like Al Capone. Just like it was impossible to convict him of all the obvious gangster stuff he got up to, he was instead put away for tax evasion. I just wonder whether it'll ever be proved he doped, but that he'll get punished for some other reason, i.e. all these dodgy contracts.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,549
    I think the institutionalised doping at the USPS team will be part of the case. My interpretation is that they are going to try and prove that federal funds, which is how the USPS is funded, were fraudulently obtained by using banned substances or methods, so the $1.5 million in bonuses from the 2001 Tour are very, very pertinent.

    I could be wrong of course.
  • inkyfingers
    inkyfingers Posts: 4,400
    I'm not holding my breath on any kind of outcome any time soon.

    I actually don't care that much about the USPS case to be honest. Well, I am interested, but it's all a bit academic what happened nearly ten years ago. To me, the Contador case is far more important, what with the season starting in just a few days.
    "I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)
  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    dennisn wrote:
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    dougzz wrote:
    So why wouldn't people take a little pleasure in his downfall, should it take place.

    So you're going to sit back with a big "Ahhhhhhh, that felt good" if or when he, or anyone, gets "done"??? Seems, at the very least, a bit creepy to me.

    Why on earth would it be creepy to take a small amount of pleasure (I'll hardly be popping champagne corks or organising a party) in seeing those that have damaged the sport we love pay for what they've done?


    Well, there are levels of creepy. Kinda creepy, creepy, and really creepy.
    Let's take, as an example, one of the more prolific Lance haters on this forum. No names but here's a hint. The chart. Now IF, and it's a big IF, this person is really serious about all the anti LA stuff he has posted, AND NOT just playing around(i.e. troll), then I find that really creepy. Sort of stalker type stuff. It's creepy, really creepy to be that obsessed about someone. Now, I'm somewhat obsessed with wanting to know why all the hatred and that makes me think of myself as a bit creepy. That's why the "creepy" comment.
    Rest assured Dennisn.... you are creepy.

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey

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