NY Times - Cyclists are said to back claims Armstrong doped
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cajun_cyclist wrote:How about Christophe Bassons, a bit of a Saint in Walsh's "From Lance to Landis", did we know this about him? From the same link.What do you think about the importance which was given to Bassons abandoning?
Bassons was wrong to say that he was clean and the others were dirty. He himself sleeps in a hyperbaric chamber. Like for Moser. Doping starts there, even if oxygen is completely natural.
Except hyperbaric chambers aren't banned, so he's perfectly entitled to use one.0 -
sherer wrote:cajun_cyclist wrote:As much as I'm a 'casual fan' of football and say Zidane himself, Operation Puerco (Puerto :? ) came up and early reports stated well known footballers went to see Dr. Fuentes, these rumours thought to be later largely debunked but there is always a bit of leeway for debate concerning that and the largely stellar performance of the French team at the 2006 World Cup. Perhaps just coincidence.
When have these football and other sports rumours about Puerto been debunked. So far the only names in the public domain are cyclists despite this being linked to football, tennis and other sports. I always thought the only reason no other sports stars names were in the public domain was because Real and Barca had more money to bring in better lawyers
They were debunked by UEFA and FIFA. They said "nothing to see here, move along now" and so the whole world forgot about it.
Ditto for tennis.0 -
Indeed!sherer wrote:When have these football and other sports rumours about Puerto been debunked. So far the only names in the public domain are cyclists despite this being linked to football, tennis and other sports. I always thought the only reason no other sports stars names were in the public domain was because Real and Barca had more money to bring in better lawyers
In Dec 2006, L'Equipe did an interview with Fuentes, where he admitted to having worked with Spanish clubs, but only named Las Palmas and Elche. He stated that he felt Epo was a legitimate medication to use with all professional sportsmen but denied having given injections of illegal substances to Las Palmas players. When asked directly if he had worked with Real or Barcelona, Fuentes answered "I can't answer that, I've already been threatened with death three times". When asked if had received offers to work as team doctor for Barcelona, he admitted to one in 1996 but said he didn"t wish to speak of the second offer (which supposedly was in 2002). The paper claimed Fuentes had shown their interviewer doping medication documents relating to players from Betis Sevilla, Valencia, Real Madrid and Barcelona.
Barcelona and Real then took L'Equipe to court for slander, claiming 3 million Euros damages. L'Equipe lost the first case and were told to pay 300,000 Euros, but the newspaper appealed and the amount was reduced to just 15,000 Euros. However, L'Equipe have since appealed again, evidently so sure of their facts. I don't think it's yet settled.
Farther back in time, in 2001, the steroid Nandrolon was found in Barcelona player Guardiola's blood when he was required to take a test. Guardiola is now manager of Barcelona.0 -
knedlicky wrote:
Barcelona and Real then took L'Equipe to court for slander, claiming 3 million Euros damages. L'Equipe lost the first case and were told to pay 300,000 Euros, but the newspaper appealed and the amount was reduced to just 15,000 Euros. However, L'Equipe have since appealed again, evidently so sure of their facts. I don't think it's yet settled.
Barcelona sued them in a Barcelona court. The judge ruled most of L'Equipe's evidence inadmissible. It's not their money that protects them, it's their political clout.Twitter: @RichN950 -
johnfinch wrote:sherer wrote:cajun_cyclist wrote:As much as I'm a 'casual fan' of football and say Zidane himself, Operation Puerco (Puerto :? ) came up and early reports stated well known footballers went to see Dr. Fuentes, these rumours thought to be later largely debunked but there is always a bit of leeway for debate concerning that and the largely stellar performance of the French team at the 2006 World Cup. Perhaps just coincidence.
When have these football and other sports rumours about Puerto been debunked. So far the only names in the public domain are cyclists despite this being linked to football, tennis and other sports. I always thought the only reason no other sports stars names were in the public domain was because Real and Barca had more money to bring in better lawyers
They were debunked by UEFA and FIFA. They said "nothing to see here, move along now" and so the whole world forgot about it.
Ditto for tennis.
so more ignored for the sake of creating a scandal rather than actually debunked0 -
dougzz wrote:@No tA Doctor
"I moderate one of the longest established and busiest forums for one of the biggest football teams in the world"
"Arsene Wenger is also on record"
Say it ain't so Joe? Tell me I'm wrong, and you really are the decent bloke you seem?
No, it's all a front. I'm actually Sam Allardyce.
I could manage Real Madrid, you know.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
knedlicky wrote:[
Farther back in time, in 2001, the steroid Nandrolon was found in Barcelona player Guardiola's blood when he was required to take a test. Guardiola is now manager of Barcelona.
He has been cleared of that twice once by a Brecsia court of all charges in 2007 and again in September last year when Coni re-opened the case and then lost it.Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
Now I know why he's called "Pep"Le Blaireau (1)0
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I believe the famous "Milan Lab" at AC Milan, famed for being able to put out a team of near geriatrics week in week out, is run by a Belgian doctor with links to Belgian cycling and a sports science place with a bit of a dubious reputation. Can't remember the actual details though and don't have time right now to research them.... If anyone can fill in the details I'd be pleased :-)Warning No formatter is installed for the format0
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Article here about McQuaid, McIlvain, UCI, WADA, BLAH, BLAH
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-has-no-objection-to-landis-conference-appearance
WARNING: The above article is not very interesting, but may contain some stuff which is connected to this original thread's topic. 0 -
I've always wondered this-
What on earth were 20 people doing in the room in the first place?
OK, I appreciate that the American health system is a poor imitation of our glorious NHS. LA would have been in a 6 bedded area where, according to NICE guidelines, at least one of the patients would have been demented, in the DTs, or moaning continually, but 20??
What size of a barn was it?
Why didn't the doctors ask them to leave as they had to ask the patient sensitive matters relating to his condition?
"And is this a relative, Mr Armstrong?"
"No, this is a representative from the company who make my sunglasses. I would very much like her to stay here with the wife of a dear friend and 18 others whilst you discuss my previous drug use."
Aye. Right.
If I'd been the nurse in charge, I would have ordered the whole bunch of them to the WRVS canteen, and told them firmly not to return until the doctor was finished, and then only two patients were allowed per bed at one time.
Just think. If he'd been treated by the NHS, Betsy wouldn't have had to endure years of stress and grief, and Stephanie wouldn't have had to go in front of a Grand Jury.
He'd likely be dead, of course, but that's just a trivial side issue.
BTW, I'm not a fan-girl and have nothing but admiration for Eliza B.0 -
Yep, it does seem strange... I imagine it went like this:Tusher wrote:I've always wondered this-
What on earth were 20 people doing in the room in the first place?
OK, I appreciate that the American health system is a poor imitation of our glorious NHS. LA would have been in a 6 bedded area where, according to NICE guidelines, at least one of the patients would have been demented, in the DTs, or moaning continually, but 20??
What size of a barn was it?
Why didn't the doctors ask them to leave as they had to ask the patient sensitive matters relating to his condition?
"And is this a relative, Mr Armstrong?"
"No, this is a representative from the company who make my sunglasses. I would very much like her to stay here with the wife of a dear friend and 18 others whilst you discuss my previous drug use."
Aye. Right.
If I'd been the nurse in charge, I would have ordered the whole bunch of them to the WRVS canteen, and told them firmly not to return until the doctor was finished, and then only two patients were allowed per bed at one time.
Just think. If he'd been treated by the NHS, Betsy wouldn't have had to endure years of stress and grief, and Stephanie wouldn't have had to go in front of a Grand Jury.
He'd likely be dead, of course, but that's just a trivial side issue.
BTW, I'm not a fan-girl and have nothing but admiration for Eliza B.
DR: Mr Armstrong we have something we want to ask you.... it's, um, a private matter....
LA: No worries doc, you can ask me anything in front of these wonderful people, coz these my chums / business associates and I love 'em!
DR: Um, OK, if you insist... what drugs have you taken as a pro cyclist?
LA: (Gulping) Hmmmmm.... come again?
etc, etc....
I happen to know all this for a fact. 0 -
20 people? Is that quoted somewhere?? Maybe I missed it in an article.
Okay, I know there are some facts and probably someone here who knows the exact number of individuals in the room.
Opening up to around page 80 in 'From Lance to Landis' by Walsh, the chapter titled "The Hospital Room, part I"
By the way, Kramar is Betsy Andreu's maiden name prior to marrying Frankie."...Perhaps it was because they wanted to watch the Dallas Cowboys' football game on television, or maybe it was because they just needed more space, but at some point they moved from Armstrong's bedroom to a bigger conference room. Kramar recalls leaving the bedroom, turning a few corners, and walking down a corridor and into a conference room.
...There was a bathroom immediately to the left of the door, some chairs, a table, a couch; some of the visitors chatted, others watched the game. In the end they were down to SIX, other than Armstrong- Frankie Andreu, Betsy Kramar, Armstrong's friend and trainer, Chris Carmichael, Carmichael's then girlfriend Paige, Armstrong's girlfriend Lisa Shiels and Stephanie McIlvain, his friend from the sportswear company Oakley...."
So six people plus Armstrong, in the next paragraph:According to three of the people present-Andreu, Kramar and McIlvain, two doctors then entered the room...
Bringing the total to nine, I don't even see a Nurse being present mentioned. Of course, the # of doctors I believe is a point of contention. From the Insurance trial, Armstrong's side may have even asserted only a single doctor was present.0 -
I was in the room... I heard it all.0
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Tusher raised a pretty valid point. Would a doctor really ask personal questions in front of so many people(ok not 20!), in a conference room whilst watching a American football game. I have got to admit that when I read the book I was more caught up in thinking he's guilty! and speed reading through it than poring over the details.
AL0 -
BIG.AL.1 wrote:Tusher raised a pretty valid point. Would a doctor really ask personal questions in front of so many people(ok not 20!), in a conference room whilst watching a American football game. I have got to admit that when I read the book I was more caught up in thinking he's guilty! and speed reading through it than poring over the details.
AL
it was meant to be an intern and not a full doctor0 -
sherer wrote:BIG.AL.1 wrote:Tusher raised a pretty valid point. Would a doctor really ask personal questions in front of so many people(ok not 20!), in a conference room whilst watching a American football game. I have got to admit that when I read the book I was more caught up in thinking he's guilty! and speed reading through it than poring over the details.
AL
it was meant to be an intern and not a full doctor
I guess according to 3 people, a Doctor AND an Intern walked in.
I agree Doctors should not ask private things in front of other people, confidentiality.
Yet, Chris Carmichael is Lance's manager. On the other hand, if a Doctor were asking me questions, yes, in front of friends could ask me private questions too.
But if this is the situation, a number of questions should have been a part of this whole scenario, "When did you first notice a swelling?" and so on.0 -
Landis' former physiologist (who now works for Radioshack) testifying:
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5826/Lim-to-testify-today-in-LandisArmstrong-doping-enquiry-maintains-he-did-nothing-wrong.aspx0 -
Crazy, huh?Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0
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“When I worked with Floyd, I repeatedly told him that he didn't need to dope and should not dope, and I was absolutely not hired to help him to do so. Since then, I've spent my career promoting clean sport and keeping innumerable athletes from cheating, as well as assisting in catching those who are.”
Is this true? Does anyone know anything about this bloke? I've never heard of him.0 -
By all accounts his rice cakes are sublime.0
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He was Garmin's physiologist before moving to Radio Shack.ratsbeyfus wrote:Is this true? Does anyone know anything about this bloke? I've never heard of him.
Good Kimmage interview and background on Lim here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 322625.ece
In some ways I find Landis's allegations about Lim the most surprising as I thought maybe he was on the level.0 -
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That is gold, thanksafx237vi wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/30/sports/cycling/30armstrong.html?_r=1
Who? What? When? Lance who? Whuuuaa? 0 -
It raises serious questions over Vaughters' judgement - especially as Lim went back to Bruyneel after Garmin.___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
not really much new in there though.
The feds are keeping pretty quiet though no leaks from them at all. Nice quote from un-named teammate saying they all knew what was going on, I would assume that has gone to the grand jury already. Seems Jan is D day for this0 -
Bronzie wrote:
He was Garmin's physiologist before moving to Radio Shack.ratsbeyfus wrote:Is this true? Does anyone know anything about this bloke? I've never heard of him.
Good Kimmage interview and background on Lim here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 322625.ece
In some ways I find Landis's allegations about Lim the most surprising as I thought maybe he was on the level.
Thanks for the link... I thought Afx was joking about the rice cakes! 0 -
Why? It's possible he decided to clean up his act with Garmin. It's possible he was clean all the time. All just as likely as JV knowing something bad but still hiring him.calvjones wrote:It raises serious questions over Vaughters' judgement - especially as Lim went back to Bruyneel after Garmin.0 -
Steph's GJ testimony was 7 hours.
Barry Bonds was 2.5.
Wonder how she filled the time out after say "nah, didn't hear anything"?Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0
