Interval training to boost TT performance?
Comments
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There's a HUGE difference between doing a 10 and a 50. I assume as I'm not foolish enough to attempt a 50 8)
But even doing one set of short intervals (or in your case a 10) a week WILL improve your overall racing.
I think people were trying to say that just doing endurance riding won't give you the adaptations needed to race SHORT races. Clearly you target longer events that your training targets.
If I was to do nothing but endurance training, it is unlikely that I would improve my 10 times as quickly as by doing training targeted to shorter events.0 -
freehub wrote:
But like when I do a TT, it's a 60 mile day, I do 25 miles to the start, then the 10 mile TT, and 25 miles back, I take it out steady, do the TT, then I push hard back.
I can't say for certain, but 25 miles as a warm-up is a little much. Unless it was at a really steady pace. Most people who do TTs and do them well warm up for about 30 mins beforehand.
You're not maximising your potential to do well in events.
(I thought you had a coach. No more? He would be able to give you proper advice on things like this.)0 -
It's the only way to get to the event, I can't get a lift.
It's all flat, in Manchester it's 23 miles to the Manchester Wheelers club 10 and that has lots of up hill bits in it.
It's usually a tailwind too here in York too.
How steady should I be taking it, in terms of HR?0 -
freehub wrote:How steady should I be taking it, in terms of HR?
I dunno - maybe 140-150? You don't want to arrive fatigued. Just nicely warmed up. You want the majority of your effort to be used in the TT, not in the warm up.
I've been told to do 5 mins to get going, 5 mins harder to get the heart rate up, 5 mins at about 90%, then another 5 mins easy to cool down a bit. With a couple of 10 second all out sprints at the end.
But mostly I just ride easy for 30 mins to get the legs warmed up and a couple of 30 second efforts to get the heart rate up.
You want the body warmed up but save all your energy for the TT. If you want to get the best possible time.
Something like that anyway....0 -
I think that's the sort of HR I ride to the start with, last time I averaged 22mph the wind was that strong! :eek:0
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Pokerface wrote:But even doing one set of short intervals (or in your case a 10) a week WILL improve your overall racing.
I think people were trying to say that just doing endurance riding won't give you the adaptations needed to race SHORT races. Clearly you target longer events that your training targets.
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No The statement was endurance rides don't give you the physical adaptions for RACING, no caveat that they are not the best type of training for short distance TT's. They do give you the adaptions even for short distance TT's, just not the BEST adaptions.
I don't do 1 10 a week, I do one race a week, and this is generally a longer distance TT.
I have said that for better short distance TT performance I would need to do intervals, and I am not disputing they are required for the best performance at short distance TT's. It was the above statement that I was disputing because it is simply not true. Where is Alex when you need him LOL.
I think the crux of the matter is everyone thinks endurance rides are done slowly, that is not the case well for me anyhow. They might be slower than my TT pace, but over 100 miles at over 19 mph on varied terrain is not slow, especially at a low HR0 -
I try and do my long rides fastish, and as such I like to get on the front and pull em faster.
Other week we did a mixed ride, 130 miles at over 19, I'm sure that must make me faster eventually, my legs were aching abit which shows signs that I've worked the muscles I suppose.0 -
Pokerface wrote:There's a HUGE difference between doing a 10 and a 50. I assume as I'm not foolish enough to attempt a 50 8)
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Not really you can tackle it as 5 10's obviously each 10 slower than you would do 1 10, or 2 x 25 again slightly slow than a 25. If you have that endurance base and the fitness, they are not too bad.
50's are my preferred distance to be honest, a good mix of endurance and speed. Now a 100, that is a different ball game, but even then I tackle them as individual 25's, just get slow with each 25 normally.0 -
Will, have you thought about doing some 'proper' road races i.e. 60 to 80 mile races as you sound like you would enjoy these more than the circuit races and possibly be more suited to the endurance aspect of them over the short, sharp efforts of the crits you've been doing up to now.0
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I've found an hour's riding before the start is OK as long as I take it really easy for most of it. For me that means a HR of 110-120 (I average 175-178 when I race).freehub wrote:I think that's the sort of HR I ride to the start with, last time I averaged 22mph the wind was that strong! :eek:
If it's a 10, then I'll make sure I do 2-3min at race pace before the start. If it's a 25, then 1-2min is usually enough. It's just to wake up your muscles a bit.
Coming home: whatever pace I feel like.Jeff Jones
Product manager, Sports0 -
Pross wrote:Will, have you thought about doing some 'proper' road races i.e. 60 to 80 mile races as you sound like you would enjoy these more than the circuit races and possibly be more suited to the endurance aspect of them over the short, sharp efforts of the crits you've been doing up to now.
I have, I was going to, one was hilly, 7 laps of a circuit that has a 17% climb in it, but I'm not doing anymore racing year.0 -
SBezza wrote:Pokerface wrote:There's a HUGE difference between doing a 10 and a 50. I assume as I'm not foolish enough to attempt a 50 8)
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Not really you can tackle it as 5 10's obviously each 10 slower than you would do 1 10, or 2 x 25 again slightly slow than a 25. If you have that endurance base and the fitness, they are not too bad.
50's are my preferred distance to be honest, a good mix of endurance and speed. Now a 100, that is a different ball game, but even then I tackle them as individual 25's, just get slow with each 25 normally.
It's not that I couldn't do a 50-mile TT, it's just that the thought of that sort of suffering doesn't appeal to me! (If I was doing it I would want to do it in a reasonably fast time). Still - I never wanted to do a 25 before and did 3 this year. Maybe next year I'll tackle a 50!0 -
freehub wrote:Pross wrote:Will, have you thought about doing some 'proper' road races i.e. 60 to 80 mile races as you sound like you would enjoy these more than the circuit races and possibly be more suited to the endurance aspect of them over the short, sharp efforts of the crits you've been doing up to now.
I have, I was going to, one was hilly, 7 laps of a circuit that has a 17% climb in it, but I'm not doing anymore racing year.
Why aren't you racing again? Is it just down to losing confidence from your crash or are there other reasons? If it is just down to the crash I would say have another go - the longer you leave it the less likely you are to get back on. We've all been there, I've only crashed twice in races but was hospitalised on both occassions.0 -
Pross wrote:freehub wrote:Pross wrote:Will, have you thought about doing some 'proper' road races i.e. 60 to 80 mile races as you sound like you would enjoy these more than the circuit races and possibly be more suited to the endurance aspect of them over the short, sharp efforts of the crits you've been doing up to now.
I have, I was going to, one was hilly, 7 laps of a circuit that has a 17% climb in it, but I'm not doing anymore racing year.
Why aren't you racing again? Is it just down to losing confidence from your crash or are there other reasons? If it is just down to the crash I would say have another go - the longer you leave it the less likely you are to get back on. We've all been there, I've only crashed twice in races but was hospitalised on both occassions.
I don't feel I am experienced enough to do another race. And not racing due to the crash is a good excuse to save a hundred or so quid that I can spend on food at uni.0 -
You won't get the experience unless you race. You made a mistake and crashed, don't let it get to you. Everyone makes mistakes racing, most of the time you get away with it, you are one of the few honest enough to admit you made a mistake that resulted in a crash but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be racing. It would be a waste of all that enthusiasm - learn from it and get on with it. If money's an issue have another look for a part time job, it'll stop you over training as well
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Busy working.SBezza wrote:No The statement was endurance rides don't give you the physical adaptions for RACING, no caveat that they are not the best type of training for short distance TT's. They do give you the adaptions even for short distance TT's, just not the BEST adaptions.
I don't do 1 10 a week, I do one race a week, and this is generally a longer distance TT.
I have said that for better short distance TT performance I would need to do intervals, and I am not disputing they are required for the best performance at short distance TT's. It was the above statement that I was disputing because it is simply not true. Where is Alex when you need him LOL.
I think the crux of the matter is everyone thinks endurance rides are done slowly, that is not the case well for me anyhow. They might be slower than my TT pace, but over 100 miles at over 19 mph on varied terrain is not slow, especially at a low HR
All rides above recovery levels are beneficial for fitness development and play a role in developing sustainable aerobic/threshold power (which is what's most physiologically important for TT events lasting more than a handful of minutes).
One can attain great gains in threshold power even though they never actually do much work at/near threshold power. I've had long blocks of training with no structured work at/near threshold yet seen sizable power gains when testing.
Nevertheless, there comes a time when one has to lift the power. As to what, how many and when to include interval work, well that's an individual thing.0 -
freehub wrote:I don't feel I am experienced enough to do another race. And not racing due to the crash is a good excuse to save a hundred or so quid that I can spend on food at uni.
That's pretty lame WIll. You have more experience than a lot of people - probably me included. Crashes happen - and now that you've had one you'll be more aware of your surroundings and be a better rider for it.
You love to race. So go race. Seemples.0 -
Indeed but I'm still not going to race this year, apart from TT and maybe hill climbs. I need to save money for next years races and all that. atm and I want to be fitter and faster next year, so I can sit in the bunch more comfortable and have more power for when I'm trying to break away or sprint.
I've got spare brakes, wheels, chainset, gears, rear mech, front mech, I should be ok for repairs next year.0 -
Despite doing 106 miles on Tuesday I feel good tonight, I hope it's not a false feeling but I feel in a better mood and state than I have done on any other TT so far, hopefully it'll equate into an under 25min for a 10 shaving over 15 seconds off my PB. I won't be using the drops tonight though, too uncomfy on this bike.0
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Good luck!Jeff Jones
Product manager, Sports0 -
Level 3 Road & Time Trial Coach, Level 2 Track Coach.
Blackpool Clarion CC
http://blackpoolclarion.webs.com/
Blackpool Youth Cycling Association
http://www.go-ride-byca.org0 -
Well oh dear, must have being a false feeling.
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/42340485
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/42340472
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/42340468
Those are the garmin logs, on the way out, I went at it doing 150bpm max, which is steadier than I'd probably normally have done it. And embarrassingly for me, after saying I feel like I'm gonna go under 25, I do a personal WORST time of 25:56, well personal WORST for this year.
I had to make up for this so I did what I think might be classed as TTT on the way home, I got my HR going between 165 and 185, but mostly between 177 and 181. It seemed to be going well. But when I got within 2 miles of home, for some reason my HR took a dive, so I was on the long straight, which I've learnt is called the mad mile (to motorcyclists), I pushed hard, my legs was screaming, and all I got was like 180bpm. Don't know if that's a sign of just getting tired?
But I felt it was a workout. In the TT I was doing around 180-190, mostly around 183-185 in the first half, then the second half, despite there not being much wind, it was a headwind on the second half, and I was struggling to do even 23mph, a$$ was aching, legs killing, but I go onto the last couple of miles stretch and pushed as hard as I felt I could, doing 188bpm and holding it, was touch, but thank god I never went above 26min that would be bad.
I'm dissapointed. I could say it was a number of things.
Cold: I was cold, underdressed I reckon, was frozen at first.
Bike: First time I've used it since feb last year, gave me a$$ ache, felt slower, I had 2 bottles on, I usually have none.
HRM: I've never done it with a HRM on before, maybe I was not pushing as hard as I could have.
Conditions: low wind sort of, but second half a headwind, it's usually the opposite.
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Is your bike position exactly the same on the Genesis?0
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I've measured it as best as I can and it seems so, the reach might be slightly shorter, but this should be better for me being shorter reach.0
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Depends how everyone else did. Might have been a tough night.
Plus you didn't use the drops - did you? That will slow you down.
No matter hoe you 'feel' - doing a 100+ mile ride 2 days before takes a lot out of you. You wouldn't be 100% tonight. I made a similar mistake of doing a really tough ride on Tuesday and then trying to do a fast TT on Wednesday. My legs just burned the whole way through and it hurt my time - if only by 30 seconds.
Live and learn and come back stronger next time!0 -
Well I usually don't do 100+ in the week lol, it was just a ride some people was checking the route out for a charity ride they gonna do, thought it would not hurt for me to tow em round hehe, not all the way of course.
Next week is a hilly TT, 10 mile hilly I think, or maybe 13.5, last time I did the 13.5 mile I averaged 21.7, hope to beat it.
It's be interesting to see if a long ride on Saturday effects all the way up to Thursday, I'm only doing 70 on Saturday (chaingang)0 -
Will, judging from my own experience, that 100 mile ride you did on Tuesday (no matter how easy) would have had a major effect on your performance on Thursday.
Also since you enjoy riding your bike so much, have you ever thought that 10 miles tt's are just not for you? Why don't you try some long distance tt's? I really think a 100 or 12hour would be right up your street.0 -
Will doing an hour at probably a near tempo pace getting to the event will not have helped, as Jeff says I would have gone alot easier, perhaps HR around the 120-130 mark.
It is difficult to compare 2 rides on different bikes on different nights, so don't beat yourself up about that, as Pokerface says, compare your ride to other riders you normally race against.
You should be well recovered from a long ride on Saturdau/Sunday before a race on Thursday, just not 2 days before.
I agree with Chris though, perhaps try a longer TT, 50 or a 100, and perhaps if you like a challenge a 12 hour TT.0 -
I think this might be showing what people have been warning you about. You are overdoing it. If you have a long ride to the start take it easy for the bulk of it and only use the last part to warm up maybe?0
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I'll try take it easier next week, like in the 130 marks, and see if this has an effect on my performance, but it's hilly, it's got a 17% climb and many drags.
When you say overdoing you don't mean over training do you? I'm always having a day recovery from rides. My legs are abit stiff today but are recovering ok I think, should be fine for chain gang tomorrow.
If I do a 70 mile group ride, it will be 94 miles for me, I can't avoid adding 24 extra miles to it unless I want to ride on my own all the time, which I don't want to.
If I limited my long riding to one 100+ mile every other week will my performance improve due to doing the chain gang instead?
It's a bugger round here tho, to do decent hills which I like I have to do 100 mile rides, and I like hills.
I don't want to do a long distance TT until I've got a bike that is comfortable where I don't get a$$ ache and where I'm in a more aero position.0
