Interval training to boost TT performance?
Comments
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25.7 avg for me. But my HR is much flatter than yours
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/41633304
It just rose and stayed between 160 and 168 most of the way.[/quote]
After looking at both your HR graphs your 's looks flatter but actualy the range is greater.i.e 100-175bpm.Ant's is 140-185bpm so it shows slight rises&falls in more detail.If that make sense.
Good times,well done
TT photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/steverob/0 -
a_n_t wrote:Pokerface wrote:. But my HR is much flatter than yours:
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/41633304
It just rose and stayed between 160 and 168 most of the way.
Interesting, I said was going to take it easy going out and push it on the way back, HR seems to support that. My average HR was 90% while yours was 84%... maybe that accounts for the minute?
also interesting where I caught you at 22 miles, your HR goes up! lol
I thought it was because there was that final uphlil drag (to the exit from the dual carriageway) when you caught me so I had to work a little harder!
My average HR was actually 89% of max (my max is lower than yours). SO it looks like we rode in the same range!0 -
After seeing the huge amount of people who've gone under the hour yesterday I'm going to make it my goal to go under the hour next year, on a decent carbon bike, with some aero bars, I reckon I can do it.0
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Pokerface wrote: I thought it was because there was that final uphlil drag (to the exit from the dual carriageway) when you caught me so I had to work a little harder!
My average HR was actually 89% of max (my max is lower than yours). SO it looks like we rode in the same range!
Ah right, I was just going off that garmin page.
I'm back on there again next Saturday. I reckon I could do a long 56 If the wind is more favourable.0 -
So I attempted it.
Needed to get back, so I did 3x 5.3 mile loops then caned it to Cawood and then back to my village.
My HR was about 183 most of the time, I felt very uncomfortable on the bike so I reckon I could have got it further up, I just need to get a decent fitting bike this time round.
At one point I was struggling and my HR dropped down to 170-175, but I managed to get it back to 180-183.
So it was between 180-186 most of the time. I never looked at speed, but looking at it now, disappointing avg.
I must not have pushed hard enough cause I don't feel too bad atm, but at the time I felt I could push no harder (if I wanted to maintain it)
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/417346460 -
a_n_t wrote:Pokerface wrote: I thought it was because there was that final uphlil drag (to the exit from the dual carriageway) when you caught me so I had to work a little harder!
My average HR was actually 89% of max (my max is lower than yours). SO it looks like we rode in the same range!
Ah right, I was just going off that garmin page.
I'm back on there again next Saturday. I reckon I could do a long 56 If the wind is more favourable.
Wind won't make much difference. Pacing will. Now that you know the course you'll go faster.0 -
No one have any input on my threshold training?0
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Nice work. You probably pushed it a bit too hard on the second lap, so you blew a bit on the third. But overall it's good. Don't go harder than that.
Rest up, do your other training, then do this again in a week or so but do 4 laps to make it an hour of threshold work.
After a few weeks, you should notice your lap times coming down for roughly the same heart rate, provided the conditions are roughly the same (if it gets cold then you'll be slower).Jeff Jones
Product manager, Sports0 -
Jeff Jones wrote:Nice work. You probably pushed it a bit too hard on the second lap, so you blew a bit on the third. But overall it's good. Don't go harder than that.
Rest up, do your other training, then do this again in a week or so but do 4 laps to make it an hour of threshold work.
After a few weeks, you should notice your lap times coming down for roughly the same heart rate, provided the conditions are roughly the same (if it gets cold then you'll be slower).
Thanks.
And if I say decided to go for a 50 mile ride tomoz, pushing abit, going proper hard up the hills to get in some hill training, and doing something maybe Tuesday and Thursday, as well as doing my long Saturday ride, will this not effect the gains I might see from the threshold?
I was also talking to a guy at the York City Cycling Races who has races all over the continent and he said that when it comes to winter, It's ok to do as much miles as I want? Which if is the case, is good for me as I'm abit of a mile muncher and like to do long rides as well as do them frequently.
I will perhaps take tomorrow off though, or go on a very steady ride to tweak my bike position.0 -
I honestly don't know the answer to that. Your fitness gains are a balance between how hard you train and how well you recover. If you're not getting quicker over the course of a few weeks, then you've got it wrong.Jeff Jones
Product manager, Sports0 -
I also think when TT' ing, you need have an ability to be able to suffer. You are generally on your limit for an hour (in a 25m TT), and very close to where the lactate will start burning. If you are not used to riding at this level, it is quite easy to back off just a little, but lose lots of time.
As Jeff says, don't worry about speed during training, it is a pointless measure, I do alot of training on my cross bike, with knobbly tyres, and for a 2 hour tempo ride, would be about 18 mph, yet I can do a 2 hour TT at an average of 26-27 mph. It is the training effect you want.
If you can I would think about getting a HR strap for your Garmin, it is easier to work out average HR and look at a graph of the gradual increase, rather than use a second HR monitor.
I hadn't done any specific threshold workouts for a few months, until last week, but I am getting faster, or so it seems. I think it takes time to see what training improves you the most, though the 2 x20mins are a very good way to raise FTP. I do these on the turbo though, as it is more precise.0 -
I don't know if 185 is my threshold, but it is when my legs feel the burn, so I was sitting at 183 and found if my bike fitted me better I'd be able to maintain it alot longer, but I was getting abit of stomach cramp and some weird straining below my left shoulder, sometimes I get it in my right, seems something to do with breathing.
I just find it odd if 185 is where my legs start to feel to burn how I can go up hills at a constant 185+ and sometimes hitting 197 but I could certainly not do that on the flat unless it's just to do with the load placed upon me when going up a hill.
I would get a HR strap but my Garmin does not support it, I got the 605 which does not have any of that built in.
It was pretty windy yesterday and I was just sat on the hoods.
I don't know if I should rest today or what, I feel abit rough, I had pizza last night and milkshake, and this morning I was so hungry I had 2 slices of pizza, some pudding filled with cream and milk shake and wish I did not now all the crap in that.
I sort of want to go out and do this 40 odd mile loop and see how long I can keep my HR around 180 and sprint up the bridges going over the railways, I reckon if I can get my power up and be comfy keeping 180 all day I could do.0 -
I found I quickly lost 25W when I stopped doing them (despite keeping the mileage up), and that was before I did a 12hr TT which flattened me for a few more weeks.SBezza wrote:I hadn't done any specific threshold workouts for a few months, until last week, but I am getting faster, or so it seems. I think it takes time to see what training improves you the most, though the 2 x20mins are a very good way to raise FTP. I do these on the turbo though, as it is more precise.
I'm getting back there again though, it seems as though the top end is easily lost and relatively easily regained.
I agree there are other ways to get faster but IMO this type of session is a key workout.Jeff Jones
Product manager, Sports0 -
How would 4x 5 mile loops at threshold none stop have any difference to doing 2x 20min workouts with a rest between? Is it just about endurance?0
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Jeff Jones wrote:
I found I quickly lost 25W when I stopped doing them (despite keeping the mileage up), and that was before I did a 12hr TT which flattened me for a few more weeks.SBezza wrote:I hadn't done any specific threshold workouts for a few months, until last week, but I am getting faster, or so it seems. I think it takes time to see what training improves you the most, though the 2 x20mins are a very good way to raise FTP. I do these on the turbo though, as it is more precise.
I'm getting back there again though, it seems as though the top end is easily lost and relatively easily regained.
I agree there are other ways to get faster but IMO this type of session is a key workout.
You are probably 100% right Jeff, and I know my 10 and 25m TT speed, is quite as quick as it could possibly be. Then again I am aiming for the 12 hr now, so need lots of endurance work. I hope the 10 I have at the weekend, I can just find the speed needed for a great time. I can only base my FTP on my turbo, though whilst not accurate seems to be fairly consistent, and my 20 min power is up compared to earlier in the year.
I seem to be going better since I did the Nat 1000 -
its all about power. not speed.
if you have a powermeter you will want to keep the watts consistent. this means really big speed differences. you have to back off on hills so much and power down hills hard.
if you dont have a powermeter: just try to keep the effort solid. no freewheeling and try to keep your breathing under control when you hit a rise but without going tooo soft.
it should feel evactly the same going uphil on the flat and downhill.
if you dont have a powermeter then try to stick to the same cadence so you can keep track of the effort easier.
even with a power meter it takes loads of concentracion. its really so so hard to do constant power even on a turbo.0 -
I don't have a power meter.
Say if I go for a ride tomorrow, what sort of HR or anything should I be doing, does it not matter? As I've done the threshold for one week.0 -
I agree with what you've said but with regard to this point, you'll struggle to do constant power on an undulating course, no matter how good you are at pacing. It also likely won't be the fastest way around the course.Team Banana Spokesman wrote:even with a power meter it takes loads of concentracion. its really so so hard to do constant power even on a turbo.
But if you're going off feel, then yes it's wise to back off a bit on the ups and nail it on the downs.Jeff Jones
Product manager, Sports0 -
Will, I'm no expert on training but it does sound like you need more structure in your riding. You sound like a few people I knew at your age who did loads and loads of miles. Stick with what people have been telling you, don't try to add a bit extra because you feel you haven't worked had enough or you were a bit slow. Maybe someone needs to confiscate your speedo
Quality over quantity really is something to consider. I doubt even most British based pros do a 150 mile ride every week. Also, it might be worth taking it easy until you heal fully from your crash, you say you aren't racing again this season so there's nothing to be gained from battering your body - it's hurting to tell you not to push it too hard. 0 -
Even just writing out a plan will probably help.
The session I described is just one workout that I find works well to improve TT performance if you do it once a week. You still have to fit it into your overall training schedule, which is a balance of other workouts and rest. It is up to you to find out what works and what doesn't and what you want to get out of cycling.Jeff Jones
Product manager, Sports0 -
The thing with these 100+ mile rides is I enjoy them, I don't do them to suffer.
I've only being doing about 3-4 rides a week.0 -
3-4 rides a week is fine. e.g. One long one, one threshold, one short interval session, and one other ride (or race).Jeff Jones
Product manager, Sports0 -
I presume the other session if I'm not racing could be 50-60 miles pushing hard for some of it?
Would the interval session be something like 4mins rest 4 mins at threshold, or higher than threshold? And do 10 reps of it?0 -
Short intervals are normally done above threshold when using power, obviously very difficult to do these based on HR, as there is lag with HR. I perhaps would start with going at a pace that causes the lactate to build, but try and hold it there for the 4/5 mins.
If I do these again they are on the turbo, and I do them at a 1:1 ratio of work:rest.
Others might do other variations of these sessions.0 -
I have a turbo, but I don't think I could cope sitting in the garden on a bike on the turbo doing intervals.
So if on my threshold training yesterday, I found I could hold 183, but 185 was getting too painful, should I do the intervals at 185bpm, or if I just push my HR as high as I can cope with it for 4 mins?
So if I do 10x 4:4 would that be good? I'll do that on Thursday and do a hardish ride tomoz with some other guys maybe. Saturday I might rotate between 100+ mile ride and chaingang.
How does this look:
Monday - Threshold training 4x 5.3 miles loop
Tuesday - Hardish training ride possibly in a group (TT week - Interval training (10x 4:4)
Wednesday - rest
Thursday - interval training (10x 4:4) (TT week - 48 miles steadyish + 10 mile TT)
Friday - rest
Saturday - Long ride or chaingang.0 -
As SBezza says, forget about your HR for short intervals. It's irrelevant.
I wouldn't do 10, you'll write yourself off. Start with 2 or 3 and build up by 1 every week or two.
The rest of the plan looks fine. Sunday rest/easy, I assume.Jeff Jones
Product manager, Sports0 -
Sunday I'd probably tend to not go on the bike at all, but it seems the more I've being doing, having less rest days slowly, my recovery is getting faster.
I'd have rather being on the bike today but I feel if I'm only doing 20 miles in a day, no matter how hard, I'm raving to go the next day.
Friday rather than rest I'd probs want to go do 30-35 miles not thrashing it, but you know, taking it at a decent pace and pushing on at bits. some random stops etc..0 -
It is always difficult to know for sure without knowing you or your lifestyle but I can say with a high degree of certainty that dropping the long ride is a sensible choice for TTs and road race training. Riding 175 miles is insanity for most people and will fatigue you for several days at least, greatly hindering proper training even if you do not realize it.
Really you can train shorter durations hard and effectively or you can train longer and very easy but without getting the physiological adaptations needed for racing. Attempting both will not work well and much better gains are to be made by resting more and training harder when required.
BTW, hope you are OK after the crash.
Murr X0 -
Well after the 175 miles and one day rest I felt fine tbh.
100 mile rides ain't that long, only 30 miles more than the usual max length of a road race.
I have to think, cycling is not my job, so I cannot be limiting myself to what I have to do and things I do not like, I see it that if I completely cut out these long rides I might not like cycling as much.
I see what people are saying but atm I cannot cut long rides out.0
