Interval training to boost TT performance?

freehub

Today I had a go at some interval training, I was intending to do some sprint training, but I just felt crap and could not really push that hard, don't know if my body is still abit shook up from my crash on Tuesday where I wrote my awesome CAAD9 off, but I decided to scrap sprint training and just have a go at some intervals.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/41636779

That's what I did, I felt I could maintain 25mph quite fine in the direction I was going, and 23mph fine into the headwind, although I don't really feel that comfortable on the saddle, must be my shorts.

I need to get my TT performance up, I know some people I can beat up hills and probably in sprints but in a TT they'd spank me cause they can average 25mph for 25 and 50 miles and I struggle to do over 24mph average in a TT. Oddly enough there 10 mile times are not massively quicker than mine.

But I want to do some training that focuses on improving my TT performance so I can be averaging 25mph.

I'd like to be able to put the training into longer rides and put some hills in cause all TT's ain't hilly.

When I feel proper good I want to do some training sessions focused on improving sprint though, but I don't trust this winter bike I'm using atm.

So to sum it up, what interval sessions should I be doing to improve my TT performance with an aim of being able to be averaging over 25mph, I know it takes time and does not happen over night guys so no need to tell me that.

Thanks.

Airwave

Last year i did lots of intervals for TTs.Mainly 4x5mins@90%+,3x10mins@85-92%&2x20mins@85-90%.Most of the TTs i did were on Tues so i usualy did the intervals on Thurs or Fri with longer easier rides at the weekend.But this year i have'nt done any intervals as such instead i've been doing 15-40miles rides on my TT bike@85-95% on Thurs or Fri.My TT times are better than last year&i've "enjoyed" the training much more than last year.It seems to have worked better for me.

Shame about your CADD.

Jeff Jones

1 hr, a bit under threshold, once a week. Start steady and it will hurt a bit by the end but not the same as a race.

This will improve your overall fitness, not just your TTing.

freehub

What is under threshold tho?

My max HR is 202 but I've only ever got that once, and I find it hard to do over 185 thrashing it on a flat road, usually about 185 is where lactic proper builds up.

I'm not racing or anything else this year, and got every day sort of pretty much free, so how could I plan out my training.

On Saturdays I plan on doing the training group which is around 100-150 miles, or the training group, chaingang around 70 miles for me.

I would like to possibly incorporate this 1 hour threshold training into a schedule where I can do a nice 50 mile route in the week too which I do go around just pushing hardish with some hills in, unless I can put this into the day I do the 1 hour threshold training?

The thing that puts me off this threshold training though, is a presume, so throughout it, legs are going to be painful, and I just find my speed is probably going to start slowly dropping until I feel "oh no I need to stop pedalling my legs are siezing up"

jibberjim

freehub wrote:

What is under threshold tho?

Go out, do 1 hour absolutely as hard as you can, but utterly well paced. Well attempt it anyway, now look at the graph of your heart rate in Garmin Connect (or get SportTracks and do it there) if it was well paced and you didn't have to stop at junctions etc then you should see a good solid HR line perhaps slowly going up a few beats over the hour but basically a good solid straight line. If you do, then that will pretty much be your threshold heart rate. That's the best way to identify it.

freehub wrote:

I would like to possibly incorporate this 1 hour threshold training into a schedule where I can do a nice 50 mile route in the week too which I do go around just pushing hardish with some hills in, unless I can put this into the day I do the 1 hour threshold training?

An hour at threshold will make it tough to do any other workout that day, certainly not any other meaningful hard effort - you can certainly do a nice ride the same day though.

freehub wrote:

The thing that puts me off this threshold training though, is a presume, so throughout it, legs are going to be painful, and I just find my speed is probably going to start slowly dropping until I feel "oh no I need to stop pedalling my legs are siezing up"

Speed really shouldn't change much - after all the idea is that you're putting out a solid consistent well paced effort, if your legs are seizing up after a few minutes of these efforts, you're likely going too hard.

freehub

I don't have HR on my Garmin, so I can't upload stats, I do have a basic HR monitor though.

If I feel my legs start to get really painful at 185 should I be aiming for 180 constant?

I feel I could do some more effort after a ride at threshold, maybe my problem is struggling to do threshold? I don't know why, perhaps it could be my position on the mike that makes me feel uncomfortable and legs hurt abit more?

Jeff Jones

freehub wrote:

What is under threshold tho?

My max HR is 202 but I've only ever got that once, and I find it hard to do over 185 thrashing it on a flat road, usually about 185 is where lactic proper builds up.

Aim for 175-180 ish average then. That means in the first 10mins, aim for 165, then it will gradually build from there until you finish @ 180ish.

I would like to possibly incorporate this 1 hour threshold training into a schedule where I can do a nice 50 mile route in the week too which I do go around just pushing hardish with some hills in, unless I can put this into the day I do the 1 hour threshold training?

The thing that puts me off this threshold training though, is a presume, so throughout it, legs are going to be painful, and I just find my speed is probably going to start slowly dropping until I feel "oh no I need to stop pedalling my legs are siezing up"

Don't concentrate on the speed so much, just the effort level. You should always be in control, it shouldn't feel as hard as a race. And you should recover pretty well the next day.

The other alternative is 2 x 20min intervals, but these are usually done a bit harder.

Add 15mins warm up and cool down to get to a circuit where you can do the effort largely uninterrupted. That's your training for the day.

freehub

And doing this once a week would be enough of this sort of training for the week?

I might give it a go monday, I feel I may need to train myself to control my HR/effort more, it's always up and down like a yoyo.

I admit I always look at speed alot, I hate it when I'm only doing 18mph or something unless I'm going up a slight hill.

Jeff Jones

Yes (at least that's how I do it - if I do a second one it'll be at a slightly lower intensity). Of course you do your other training on other days but this is a key session IMO.

You'll pick up once you're over your injuries too.

freehub

Ok thanks, I'll perhaps give this a go on Monday and see how I do, I rarely have ever done just 1 hour rides, seem too short, fair enough tho if I'm knackered by the end of it and can go out the next day

Jeff Jones

My sessions work out at between 1hr30 (ride to and from course) and 1h45 (if I do another lap). If I don't do them regularly, I go backwards.

freehub

I've got a 5 mile course that is good round here, it's got 2 little drags that go over the railway, all left turns, was used for a TLi funnily enough the one I wrote my CAAD9 off.

guess I could do 4 laps of that? It's about 10 mins from me but the corners you have to slow down cause you can't see well round em.

jibberjim

freehub wrote:

I admit I always look at speed alot, I hate it when I'm only doing 18mph or something unless I'm going up a slight hill.

Getting over this will likely make a big difference to your performance, training isn't racing, speeds in training are irrelevant. I've never averaged more than 20mph for a ride over 2 hours in training, yet even on road bike TT's I've managed over 24mph for nearly 2 hours.

Focus on effort.

freehub

So in training are you riding are low intensity all the time?

Jeff Jones

freehub wrote:

I've got a 5 mile course that is good round here, it's got 2 little drags that go over the railway, all left turns, was used for a TLi funnily enough the one I wrote my CAAD9 off.

guess I could do 4 laps of that? It's about 10 mins from me but the corners you have to slow down cause you can't see well round em.

Perfect. Don't worry about having to slow down, it won't be for very long. If you manage it in ~50mins, then do another lap.

In terms of pacing, you should be aiming for an even lap time.

freehub

So would this be a good way to do this session:

I go to the circuit steady.
I then do one lap at 165bpm or around that
I then up it to 175-180bpm and try to keep it at that for 4-5 laps, or bang on 60 mins
do a lap at 165 bpm
ride back steady

Thanks.

jibberjim

freehub wrote:

So in training are you riding are low intensity all the time?

Nope, but by not worrying about average speed, or the speed I'm going, I don't care that I'm pedalling along at 15mph. That means for the parts of the ride when I want to work hard, I'm not tired from obsessing about the average speed.

Jeff Jones

You'll probably be over 170 by the end of the first lap and then your HR will gradually rise for the next 3 laps. Do the fifth lap only if you finish 4 laps well under the hour. Then ride home.

Hit the lap button on each lap and post the session on garmin connect afterwards if you like and we can have a look.

freehub

Ok will do that cheers

lukasran

does anyone on here do the j2/1 course. did my first last wednesday 25:59 looking forward to improvement. think i went off too fast. after reading stuff on here.

a_n_t

think I pretty much paced a perfect 25 today

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/41635943



26.1mph average just for Will

a_n_t

lukasran wrote:

does anyone on here do the j2/1 course. did my first last wednesday 25:59 looking forward to improvement. think i went off too fast. after reading stuff on here.

yeah, pretty quick course for the area.

Pokerface

lukasran wrote:

does anyone on here do the j2/1 course. did my first last wednesday 25:59 looking forward to improvement. think i went off too fast. after reading stuff on here.

I do it also.

You only went off too fast if you died in the second half. If you finished strong, then you did OK. If you struggled a lot at the end, then you should have gone slower at the start.

Pokerface

a_n_t wrote:

think I pretty much paced a perfect 25 today

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/41635943



26.1mph average just for Will

25.7 avg for me. But my HR is much flatter than yours:

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/41633304

It just rose and stayed between 160 and 168 most of the way.

freehub

a_n_t wrote:

think I pretty much paced a perfect 25 today

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/41635943



26.1mph average just for Will

Was that a fast course?

Pokerface

freehub wrote:

a_n_t wrote:

think I pretty much paced a perfect 25 today

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/41635943



26.1mph average just for Will

Was that a fast course?

Fast course but a slow day on it. I rode it also - ANT started 1 spot after me. (I'm one of those guys that you would easily beat on the road or up hills, but not in a TT)

freehub

Pokerface wrote:

freehub wrote:

a_n_t wrote:

think I pretty much paced a perfect 25 today

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/41635943



26.1mph average just for Will

Was that a fast course?

(I'm one of those guys that you would easily beat on the road or up hills, but not in a TT)

Explain.

Pokerface

freehub wrote:

Pokerface wrote:

(I'm one of those guys that you would easily beat on the road or up hills, but not in a TT)

Explain.

Erm - it's kinda self-explanatory. I just ride a good TT. Good power and well paced and can maintain steady-state power throughout. But I suffer in road races with all the change of pace. Poor sprinting power. And too heavy to climb well.


Or did you mean explain the 'fast course, slow day" bit?

freehub

Nah that's fine.

I'd hope I can improve and some day next year or the year after will be good at TT's, I'm only 21 and people my age are supposed to improve quickly.

I was on a right upwards spurt in terms of performance until I wrote my CAAD9 off at 26mph, I did 175 miles on Sunday, rested Monday, felt great Tuesday, found the TLi at 26mph avg easy until I crashed, then downwards spiral and felt crap today.

Feels like I've got armadillo armour on my shoulder with the scab feels bloody awful.

Pokerface

26 MPH avg is a lot easier when you're in a group. It's a little harder when you're out on the road alone! (If if it IS on a TT bike).

Ride more TTs and you'll get better at riding TTs.

a_n_t

Pokerface wrote:

. But my HR is much flatter than yours:

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/41633304

It just rose and stayed between 160 and 168 most of the way.

Interesting, I said was going to take it easy going out and push it on the way back, HR seems to support that. My average HR was 90% while yours was 84%... maybe that accounts for the minute?

also interesting where I caught you at 22 miles, your HR goes up! lol