Any word from Cav yet?

BikingBernie

DaveyL wrote:

Because the crash *itself* was not 100% Cavendish.

That's right, because if someone tries to bully and intimidate you and you then try to stand your ground, any consequences are as much your fault as theirs. :roll:

What Haussler clearly should have done when Cavendish cut across in to path, got his elbow in front of him and started to lean on him is simply sit up and let Cavendish take the stage even though, in a clean sprint, he had the legs to win the stage himself.

Mad Roadie

something not right with this story and pictures?

watch the front wheel image 1- melted into the tarmac - no way back


image 2 - cav falls further - magically the wheel is straight



image 3 cav on the deck - wheel reasonable



image 4 - some Swiss guy finds Cav's brain on the tarmac



image 5 - our sprinting star responds



can someone explain how this wheel ever recovered from the first shot?

bazbadger

Carbon wheels aren't what they used to be.

How odd!

frenchfighter

Haussleur:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/heinri ... r-the-tour

Tusher

So, let me get this straight...........

Haussler and Cavendish are surrounded by the press immediately afterwards. From before the crash until they reach the finish line, there are photographers recording every moment.

Yet no journalist sees Mark spitting on Heinrich, and no photographer takes a photograph of this.

Haussler can't remember, because he's banged his head in the crash and is concussed. He writes his blog in pain and in disgust because his mates have told him he was spat on.
From photos, Cav looks completely shocked afterwards.

But Mark is made a scapegoat by the peloton the next day, blamed 100% for an accident that was
1. an accident
2. the fault of two riders with their heads down hammering towards the finish line at speeds I can only manage in a car


The peloton group dynamics are from the playground. A rider who is loathed for being too good, too young finds himself in a corner after group hatred is whipped up towards him, and none of them were man enough (I'm looking at you, Robbie McEwan) to speak up and try and stop the two minute protest.

Whether this will lead Mark to become stronger, in the manner of Armstrong, or whether he'll cry himself to sleep every night I don't know.
But without friends, HTC are going to find it harder and harder to chase down the breakaways and bring him to the line this Tour.

iainf72

Tusher wrote:

The peloton group dynamics are from the playground. A rider who is loathed for being too good, too young finds himself in a corner after group hatred is whipped up towards him, and none of them were man enough (I'm looking at you, Robbie McEwen) to speak up and try and stop the two minute protest.

Not quite. I don't think Cavendish is disliked for his winning ability, it's more his obnoxious personality. And take off those heart shaped glasses and have a look at how he's behaved in public and if you can't see why he might have a bad rep, well, then...

Saying he's disliked because he wins a lot is daft. Contador wins a lot and is liked. Cancellera wins a lot and his peers like him.

Tusher

Point taken Iain, but there are many riders who have a 'challenging, difficult' personality- many elite athletes do- but they don't find themselves scapegoated in such a way.

conceptual_primate

iainf72 wrote:

Tusher wrote:

The peloton group dynamics are from the playground. A rider who is loathed for being too good, too young finds himself in a corner after group hatred is whipped up towards him, and none of them were man enough (I'm looking at you, Robbie McEwen) to speak up and try and stop the two minute protest.

Not quite. I don't think Cavendish is disliked for his winning ability, it's more his obnoxious personality. And take off those heart shaped glasses and have a look at how he's behaved in public and if you can't see why he might have a bad rep, well, then...

Saying he's disliked because he wins a lot is daft. Contador wins a lot and is liked. Cancellera wins a lot and his peers like him.

+1

iainf72

Tusher wrote:

Point taken Iain, but there are many riders who have a 'challenging, difficult' personality- many elite athletes do- but they don't find themselves scapegoated in such a way.

Can you name me 3 who've

a) slagged off their team mate publically
b) flipped the bird when crossing the line
c) refused to accept any responsibility when they've done wrong

schweiz

Mad Roadie wrote:

can someone explain how this wheel ever recovered from the first shot?

You can see this happening quite clearly on the slow-video. In fact my first thought when I first saw the video was that Cav's wheel had failed and that caused the crash. It didn't fail, it was Haussler's front wheel bending Cav's front wheel as they hit.

Anyway, to answer your question, the spokes suffered elastic deformation and pull the rim 'straight' after the load from Haussler's front wheel riding over it was released and they regain their original position. There are some pictures of a HTC mechanic carrying Cav's bike clearly showing that the CF has failed (plastic deformation) but not so that the wheel is in pieces. In reality, I think the spokes would have undergone an amount of plastic deformation too, that is they didn't return to the exact stated they were in before the crash (i.e. they were still slightly bent)

Have a look at what elastic deformation does to a golf ball when it is hit...

http://www.springerlink.com/content/936 ... lltext.pdf

and there is of course this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMqM13EUSKw

All that took place in about 0.015 seconds..if you believe that it is genuine.

phil s

Tusher wrote:

So, let me get this straight...........

Haussler and Cavendish are surrounded by the press immediately afterwards. From before the crash until they reach the finish line, there are photographers recording every moment.

Yet no journalist sees Mark spitting on Heinrich, and no photographer takes a photograph of this.

You are wrong. Journalists and photographers are not allowed onto the course with the race in progress. The photographs that were taken won't have been in the immediate aftermath.

rjh299

henri_iii wrote:

Haussler would have won the stage, no doubt.

No doubt? None at all? Cav's got hell of a 2nd kick if needs be. I would have been surprised if Haussler had come past him.
Cav 75% to blame, Haussler 25%. If Haussler didn't move at all then there wouldn't have been a crash, but obviuosly Cav moved across a lot more.
You can see from front slow-mo, Cav is covering Ciolek bars past his stem and Haussler's covering from beginning of bar tape. So they both moved across and cut Ciolek up.

pedro118118

It's got 'legs' this hasn't it?

I don't think the crash was 100% Cav, but he was certainly at fault. And more at fault than any of the other sprinters. I can't beleive it was in any way deliberate and even if it was an intimidation tactic, it was a pretty riskly one, especially so close to the Tour.

The incident has clearly been used an excuse by the riders to vent some long-held animosity towards Cav. This seems to have been bubbling along for some time - other riders/teams resent being referred to as "juniors" or "amateurs and when they get the chance to stuff it up Cav/HTC they do (as was the case when Garmin chased down Hincapie to deny him yellow last year). Likewise all this "winning is easy for me - I only need to sprint at 85% to beat these guys" doesn't endear himself to the other sprinters.

Bottom line is that he is abnoxious and graceless (even Cav's fans can't suggest otherwise?!) and that's why he's disliked, not because he wins a lot. He is a great rider - no doubt about that - but he seems to have upset a lot a people in such as short period of time and this doesn't happen by coincidence.

There is plenty of evidence (past and present) of dominant/successful riders, who retain a good reputation and are well-liked in the peleton.

calvjones

pedro118118 wrote:

It's got 'legs' this hasn't it?

I don't think the crash was 100% Cav, but he was certainly at fault. And more at fault than any of the other sprinters. I can't beleive it was in any way deliberate and even if it was an intimidation tactic, it was a pretty riskly one, especially so close to the Tour.

The incident has clearly been used an excuse by the riders to vent some long-held animosity towards Cav. This seems to have been bubbling along for some time - other riders/teams resent being referred to as "juniors" or "amateurs and when they get the chance to stuff it up Cav/HTC they do (as was the case when Garmin chased down Hincapie to deny him yellow last year). Likewise all this "winning is easy for me - I only need to sprint at 85% to beat these guys" doesn't endear himself to the other sprinters.

Bottom line is that he is abnoxious and graceless (even Cav's fans can't suggest otherwise?!) and that's why he's disliked, not because he wins a lot. He is a great rider - no doubt about that - but he seems to have upset a lot a people in such as short period of time and this doesn't happen by coincidence.

There is plenty of evidence (past and present) of dominant/successful riders, who retain a good reputation and are well-liked in the peloton.

Pedalling past Cipo with one leg pretty much sums him up, doesn't it?

pedro118118

calvjones wrote:

pedro118118 wrote:

It's got 'legs' this hasn't it?

I don't think the crash was 100% Cav, but he was certainly at fault. And more at fault than any of the other sprinters. I can't beleive it was in any way deliberate and even if it was an intimidation tactic, it was a pretty riskly one, especially so close to the Tour.

The incident has clearly been used an excuse by the riders to vent some long-held animosity towards Cav. This seems to have been bubbling along for some time - other riders/teams resent being referred to as "juniors" or "amateurs and when they get the chance to stuff it up Cav/HTC they do (as was the case when Garmin chased down Hincapie to deny him yellow last year). Likewise all this "winning is easy for me - I only need to sprint at 85% to beat these guys" doesn't endear himself to the other sprinters.

Bottom line is that he is abnoxious and graceless (even Cav's fans can't suggest otherwise?!) and that's why he's disliked, not because he wins a lot. He is a great rider - no doubt about that - but he seems to have upset a lot a people in such as short period of time and this doesn't happen by coincidence.

There is plenty of evidence (past and present) of dominant/successful riders, who retain a good reputation and are well-liked in the peloton.

Pedalling past Cipo with one leg pretty much sums him up, doesn't it?[/quote]

Sadly - yes.

mididoctors

pedro118118 wrote:

calvjones wrote:

pedro118118 wrote:

It's got 'legs' this hasn't it?

I don't think the crash was 100% Cav, but he was certainly at fault. And more at fault than any of the other sprinters. I can't beleive it was in any way deliberate and even if it was an intimidation tactic, it was a pretty riskly one, especially so close to the Tour.

The incident has clearly been used an excuse by the riders to vent some long-held animosity towards Cav. This seems to have been bubbling along for some time - other riders/teams resent being referred to as "juniors" or "amateurs and when they get the chance to stuff it up Cav/HTC they do (as was the case when Garmin chased down Hincapie to deny him yellow last year). Likewise all this "winning is easy for me - I only need to sprint at 85% to beat these guys" doesn't endear himself to the other sprinters.

Bottom line is that he is abnoxious and graceless (even Cav's fans can't suggest otherwise?!) and that's why he's disliked, not because he wins a lot. He is a great rider - no doubt about that - but he seems to have upset a lot a people in such as short period of time and this doesn't happen by coincidence.

There is plenty of evidence (past and present) of dominant/successful riders, who retain a good reputation and are well-liked in the peloton.

Pedalling past Cipo with one leg pretty much sums him up, doesn't it?[/quote]

Sadly - yes.

I think they laugh about it now thou... they are all adults or will be they can work it out

pedro118118

The Cippo TT thing can easily be put down to an ill-advised childish joke/prank.

The depth of ill-feeling fro Cav in the peleton seems to go much deeper than that.
For a single rider to be singled-out and disliked to a point where other riders (including another Brit?!) protest at the start of a major race stage is incredible.

Where will it end?

PS - Has Cav even apologised for the Tour de Suisse incident?

bigmat

Think Cav could at least put out a Wayne Rooney style press release expressing "regret" for the crash. I've looked at it a few times. From the overhead he seems to be riding pretty straight, parallel to one of the road markings. Haussler riding straight parallel to the barriers. Unfortunately they then rode straight into each other! Didn't seem to be a huge shift in direction from either rider, Cav got his line wrong but to me it didn't look malicious. He probably feels like a victim as he got pretty badly knocked about and now is getting a lot of stick for what was ultimately an accident. He should acknowledge, though, that it was mainly his fault and at least he was able to walk away and start the next day, unlike the poor guy with a broken hip (and Haussler). No need to fall on his sword, but a little contrition and concern for his fellow pros would go a long way here...

calvjones

mididoctors wrote:

pedro118118 wrote:

calvjones wrote:

pedro118118 wrote:

It's got 'legs' this hasn't it?

I don't think the crash was 100% Cav, but he was certainly at fault. And more at fault than any of the other sprinters. I can't beleive it was in any way deliberate and even if it was an intimidation tactic, it was a pretty riskly one, especially so close to the Tour.

The incident has clearly been used an excuse by the riders to vent some long-held animosity towards Cav. This seems to have been bubbling along for some time - other riders/teams resent being referred to as "juniors" or "amateurs and when they get the chance to stuff it up Cav/HTC they do (as was the case when Garmin chased down Hincapie to deny him yellow last year). Likewise all this "winning is easy for me - I only need to sprint at 85% to beat these guys" doesn't endear himself to the other sprinters.

Bottom line is that he is abnoxious and graceless (even Cav's fans can't suggest otherwise?!) and that's why he's disliked, not because he wins a lot. He is a great rider - no doubt about that - but he seems to have upset a lot a people in such as short period of time and this doesn't happen by coincidence.

There is plenty of evidence (past and present) of dominant/successful riders, who retain a good reputation and are well-liked in the peloton.

Pedalling past Cipo with one leg pretty much sums him up, doesn't it?[/quote]

Sadly - yes.

I think they laugh about it now thou... they are all adults or will be they can work it out

Adults can be @rses too y'know!

stagehopper

iainf72 wrote:

Not quite. I don't think Cavendish is disliked for his winning ability, it's more his obnoxious personality. And take off those heart shaped glasses and have a look at how he's behaved in public and if you can't see why he might have a bad rep, well, then...

Saying he's disliked because he wins a lot is daft. Contador wins a lot and is liked. Cancellera wins a lot and his peers like him.

Got to agree with iain's assessment. Cav is neither a good winner nor a good loser and has rubbed riders up the wrong way for far too long.

The ironic thing is his sprinting has been *very* clean since he came into the sport apart from this latest incident. Last year's Tour shenanigans with Hushovd are still open to debate given the nature of the finish and at such a slow pace that the sprint itself is irrelevant to the discussion (though perversely it's his reaction to it has led to the animosity building).

Rodrego Hernandez

Cav is an exceptional rider and a good bloke to boot. Petty jealousies are to be expected when you are as good as he is. The tour of swiss crash was equally Hausslers fault as much as Cavs. Cervelo need to get over them selves and worry about racing rather than organising pathetic protests to try to unsettle their biggest rival.

iainf72

A good read from Inner Ring

http://theinnerring.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... r-and.html

BikingBernie

iainf72 wrote:

A good read from Inner Ring

http://theinnerring.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... r-and.html

'The Great British Male - The Chav.'



Mark Cavendish.

dave_1

Good luck to Cav at the TDF. Gripele will be on his way...Cav is naturally fast...but his kick won't last into his late 20s so that guys got to hoover the wins up in the next 3 years IMO. IMO unless Cav is weird he'll be greatly affected on the home front if has a brother in the jail-that could be hard to live with or forget about no matter how important your career is

Kléber

He's in danger of looking like a plonker but hopefully a win or two will ease the pressure, it's a self-fulfilling thing.

It's not been a season to remember but he's always capable of delivering results so I suspect he'll be winning in July. It'll be interesting to see if he can match Hushovd for the whole race though. The battle for green could be an exciting competition, especially if the likes of Farrar get involved too.

Tusher

iainf72 wrote:

Tusher wrote:

Point taken Iain, but there are many riders who have a 'challenging, difficult' personality- many elite athletes do- but they don't find themselves scapegoated in such a way.

Can you name me 3 who've

a) slagged off their team mate publically
b) flipped the bird when crossing the line
c) refused to accept any responsibility when they've done wrong

um, wellllll, er ...............

He always thanks his team mates after a sprint. And he has a huge fan club in Belgium. And he sorta said that it wasn't entirely some-one elses fault after the crash (can't find the link) And, um, yes, well.

I think the problem is he's just too honest, too straight. OK, he doesn't always engage his brain before his mouth. Mainly just after the finish line, but that's him. Raw, sexy, passionate, determined.


And never bland.

Tusher

phil s wrote:

Tusher wrote:

So, let me get this straight...........

Haussler and Cavendish are surrounded by the press immediately afterwards. From before the crash until they reach the finish line, there are photographers recording every moment.

Yet no journalist sees Mark spitting on Heinrich, and no photographer takes a photograph of this.

You are wrong. Journalists and photographers are not allowed onto the course with the race in progress. The photographs that were taken won't have been in the immediate aftermath.

But the photographers were able to take photos from behind the finish line (presumably) of the crash, so I assumed that they would continue as the riders picked themselves off the tarmac and staggered to the line. And beyond.

pedro118118

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

Cav is an exceptional rider and a good bloke to boot. Petty jealousies are to be expected when you are as good as he is. The tour of swiss crash was equally Hausslers fault as much as Cavs. Cervelo need to get over them selves and worry about racing rather than organising pathetic protests to try to unsettle their biggest rival.

Sorry, but that's utter drivel.

I don't see any other teams protesting against the likes of Cancellara, Contador, Gilbert etc, 'cos they win a lot and everyone else is "petty" and "jealous".

Last time I looked, the likes of Pettachi, Freire and McEwan had dozens of wins under their belts over the last 10 years, yet all seem to be able to retain respect from within the bunch.

Obviously, I've never met Cav so can't verify one way or the other (presumably you have?) whether is a "a good bloke". From what I've seen though (albeit at races and through the media), all evidence points to the contrary.

As I've said before, he's a fantastic sprinter with a great sprinter's team and his win record over the last couple of seasons reflects that ability. Fair play to him, but let's not ignore the obvious.

Next you'll be telling me John Terry is a thoroughly pleasant chap.

Pross

In this litigious world would you apologise and say "that accident was entirely my fault"? All it would take would be for one of those who went down to miss a Tour place and they could start saying that their contract value for next year has been reduced etc. etc.

He wasn't too far off the mark when he said he was partly at fault. Yes, he can be an arse at times and isn't the most likeable person but I don't think there'd have been anything like the reaction in identical circumstances if Cav had been someone else.

pedro118118

Pross wrote:

In this litigious world would you apologise and say "that accident was entirely my fault"? All it would take would be for one of those who went down to miss a Tour place and they could start saying that their contract value for next year has been reduced etc. etc.

He wasn't too far off the mark when he said he was partly at fault. Yes, he can be an ars* at times and isn't the most likeable person but I don't think there'd have been anything like the reaction in identical circumstances if Cav had been someone else.

I think even in this ltitgious world, there is still a burden of proof element and the key would be proving there was intention. I don't think anyone is saying he intentionally caused an incident, which could potentially lead to other riders beign injured and incurring loss.

Nice try though, suggesting that the reason Cav acts like a complete t00l is minimise the likelihood of a lawsuit!