Any word from Cav yet?

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  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    edited June 2010
    CaptureLines.jpg

    Haussler fading, really? :?

    sportwereld.be says Klier and Hunt organised a small protest against Cavendish, delaying the start "for a few minutes".

    Article here:
    http://www.blick.ch/sport/rad/protestie ... ish-149166

    Dodgy translation, but some strong words against Cav......
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    edited June 2010
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    CaptureLines.jpg

    Haussler fading, really? :?

    I dont know why people think haussler is at all to blame...

    even Ciolek had to soft pedal from being cut up as Cav passed not like he had a bikes length
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    Look at Ciolek at the start of the sprint - now that is "swerving way off his line". OK there was a rider slowing on the front but he goes from two thirds to the right almost to the left hand barrier and takes Cav (and Haussler) with him with Cav almost putting a rider in the barrier as a result. To me that is a far more dangerous manouevre but they get away with it as they would have with the crash in many cases. Sprints will always be rough and tumble, they were just unlucky in this case. The suggestions that it was somehow a deliberate ploy to take out Haussler (who he was just passing) is ludicrous, the only person who stood a chance of beating him was Petacchi.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    Pross wrote:
    Look at Ciolek at the start of the sprint - now that is "swerving way off his line"..

    but he had the length...

    they are all on his wheel....
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    mididoctors wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    CaptureLines.jpg

    Haussler fading, really? :?

    I dont know why people think haussler is at all to blame...

    even Ciolek had to soft pedal from being cut up as Cav passed not like he had a bikes length

    OK, that seems to show Haussler wasn't fading but the helpfully drawn line also show that they were both riding at similarly diagonal converging lines (Cav's is slightly steeper) so surely they shut out Ciolek between them? I'm not saying Cav doesn't have a share of the blame but why isn't Haussler getting a similar level of stick? That picture also conclusively shows that no-one "swerved wildly off his line" as others have claimed.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    CaptureLines.jpg
    ....

    This looks different to how it appeared in the video. What's interesting about this composite is that it looks like Cav was riding almost parallel to the road markings; depends on what the rider is focussed on for their line. Against the markings, Haussler is the one moving away though it may be an effect of the way the images have been stuck together.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    mididoctors wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Look at Ciolek at the start of the sprint - now that is "swerving way off his line"..

    but he had the length...

    they are all on his wheel....

    Fair comment but surely it was still a dangerous manoeuvre to switch line so abruptly? He wouldn't have known if he has someone overlapping his back wheel slightly.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    Pross wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    CaptureLines.jpg

    Haussler fading, really? :?

    I dont know why people think haussler is at all to blame...

    even Ciolek had to soft pedal from being cut up as Cav passed not like he had a bikes length

    OK, that seems to show Haussler wasn't fading but the helpfully drawn line also show that they were both riding at similarly diagonal converging lines (Cav's is slightly steeper) so surely they shut out Ciolek between them? I'm not saying Cav doesn't have a share of the blame but why isn't Haussler getting a similar level of stick? That picture also conclusively shows that no-one "swerved wildly off his line" as others have claimed.

    Haussler drifts less than one section of pedestrian crossing (yellow strips) from beginning to end of sprint shown...cav veers over 2+1/2 sections of width

    haussler is even pushed back the other way!
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    To me it looks like Cavendish was riding a lot more "diagonal" than Haussler. And that's what it looked like to me on the telly. It appears Cavendish was coming across the road.

    This soft riders in 2010 need to HTFU. Someone should've smacked Cavendish around the ears post stage and then we could all move on.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    Cav even looks across BEFORE veering over....

    I'm not 100% but it I would not be surprised to learn he was trying to hook up Haussler
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    iainf72 wrote:
    To me it looks like Cavendish was riding a lot more "diagonal" than Haussler. And that's what it looked like to me on the telly. It appears Cavendish was coming across the road.

    This soft riders in 2010 need to HTFU. Someone should've smacked Cavendish around the ears post stage and then we could all move on.

    I held my line...it was just diagonal.... WTF!
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    But Cav stays virtually parallel to the central lane marking and on that was the direction he was looking. I've never been in a bunch sprint at that sort of speed but I should think it is difficult to focus on a line and your opponents whilst going at maximum effort. The point is his line doesn't deviate in anyway over about the preceeding 50m. Some people are suggesting it was deliberate!
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    I still think it's unlikely it was deliberate, but sprinters and other pro riders are used to crashes, and don't make such accusations lightly (unlike internet forum members ;) ). It might partly be a reaction to his own non-reaction. Cavendish would do well to admit it was his mistake and apologise, and that would be that
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    Pross wrote:
    But Cav stays virtually parallel to the central lane marking and on that was the direction he was looking. !

    well first off no he doesn't and just to make it clear want we are saying here...no he doesn't

    starts off over 4 sections of ped crossing from "road markings" and ends up at 2 sections (or slightly less) from white line
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    FJS wrote:
    I still think it's unlikely it was deliberate, but sprinters and other pro riders are used to crashes, and don't make such accusations lightly (unlike internet forum members ;) ). It might partly be a reaction to his own non-reaction. Cavendish would do well to admit it was his mistake and apologise, and that would be that

    Its not like I haven't done it myself... wasn't going quite so fast at the time thou
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • jrduquemin
    jrduquemin Posts: 791
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Italiano wrote:
    redddraggon wrote:
    http://tweetphoto.com/27474518
    Keeping a straight line would have avoided it.
    We know form the way he almost put Hushovd into the barriers in last year's Tout that riding in a straight line is not one of Cavendish's strong points...

    If you'd seen the aerial shots of the sprint in question, you would have seen that the barriers were not straight. The barriers came out and although it appeared that Cav cut in on Thor Hushovd, he never came off his line...
    2010 Lynskey R230
    2013 Yeti SB66
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    mididoctors wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    But Cav stays virtually parallel to the central lane marking and on that was the direction he was looking. !

    well first off no he doesn't and just to make it clear want we are saying here...no he doesn't

    starts off over 4 sections of ped crossing from "road markings" and ends up at 2 sections (or slightly less) from white line

    :? Can't see it varying that much but in any case the white line is tapering so isn't running on the same line as the road crossing markings. If they use the same design parameters over there as we do here that taper is likely to be about 1:20. That's why I was talking about reference points, if he was focussed entirely on the white line (which was the way he was looking) I doubt he would even have realised he was drifting from the barriers and the crossing markings would have been too short to provide any warning. Likewise Haussler is looking the other way and his line is pretty much parallel to the barriers. I'm not even trying to argue that Cav is blameless just that when you have all those people going flat out at pushing 40mph with little or no distance between them these things happen. I'm not even disgreeing fundamentaly with you I don't think, more with those who say this like "he swerved wildly off his line" - there's no swerve, it's just a bad angle for a straight line! :wink:
  • jrduquemin
    jrduquemin Posts: 791
    Agreed, it looked like Cav and Hausler's line were converging....
    2010 Lynskey R230
    2013 Yeti SB66
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    Pross wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    But Cav stays virtually parallel to the central lane marking and on that was the direction he was looking. !

    well first off no he doesn't and just to make it clear want we are saying here...no he doesn't

    starts off over 4 sections of ped crossing from "road markings" and ends up at 2 sections (or slightly less) from white line

    :? Can't see it varying that much but in any case the white line is tapering so isn't running on the same line as the road crossing markings. If they use the same design parameters over there as we do here that taper is likely to be about 1:20. That's why I was talking about reference points, if he was focussed entirely on the white line (which was the way he was looking) I doubt he would even have realised he was drifting from the barriers and the crossing markings would have been too short to provide any warning. Likewise Haussler is looking the other way and his line is pretty much parallel to the barriers. I'm not even trying to argue that Cav is blameless just that when you have all those people going flat out at pushing 40mph with little or no distance between them these things happen. I'm not even disgreeing fundamentaly with you I don't think, more with those who say this like "he swerved wildly off his line" - there's no swerve, it's just a bad angle for a straight line! :wink:

    measure it relative to the ped crossing only and ignore the white line...

    or ignore the ped crossing

    both cases Cav closes up the gap..your eyes are tricking you
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    if the argument is cav was holding his line relative to some "parallel" marker (whatever that is?) then everyone else in the sprint was holding the wrong line because they all ride lines that are way more parallel to Haussler


    cavindish was in the wrong

    the End

    the-end-2.jpg
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    iainf72 wrote:
    This soft riders in 2010 need to HTFU. Someone should've smacked Cavendish around the ears post stage and then we could all move on.
    Riders instead held a two minute protest at the start of the stage...
    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/4557/ ... crash.aspx
    The fifth stage of the Tour de Suisse began with a two minute protest against what some teams described as the aggressive attitude of HTC-Columbia sprinter Mark Cavendish
    ...According to AFP, bystanders claimed that Cavendish spat on the ground in response to criticism from riders after Tuesday's incident.
    I give it three years and Cav will have a facial tattoo like David Clinger, spending his time racing for some a small team on the US circuit.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    At least he wears "his heart on his sleeve" - Rather a loutish goon than a pleasant bland guy etc etc.

    :wink:
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    Kléber wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    This soft riders in 2010 need to HTFU. Someone should've smacked Cavendish around the ears post stage and then we could all move on.
    Riders instead held a two minute protest at the start of the stage...
    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/4557/ ... crash.aspx
    The fifth stage of the Tour de Suisse began with a two minute protest against what some teams described as the aggressive attitude of HTC-Columbia sprinter Mark Cavendish
    ...According to AFP, bystanders claimed that Cavendish spat on the ground in response to criticism from riders after Tuesday's incident.
    I give it three years and Cav will have a facial tattoo like David Clinger, spending his time racing for some a small team on the US circuit.

    I think he is going to find hard winning with that sort of thing going on


    Rare to see a protest aimed at a single rider....
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • magicrhodes
    magicrhodes Posts: 123
    jrduquemin wrote:
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Italiano wrote:
    redddraggon wrote:
    http://tweetphoto.com/27474518
    Keeping a straight line would have avoided it.
    We know form the way he almost put Hushovd into the barriers in last year's Tout that riding in a straight line is not one of Cavendish's strong points...

    If you'd seen the aerial shots of the sprint in question, you would have seen that the barriers were not straight. The barriers came out and although it appeared that Cav cut in on Thor Hushovd, he never came off his line...

    TRUE! Cav went straight and the barriers came in. Hushovd, much as I like him, was seeking a gap when it was only closing in on him. Worst decision by the judge on that one.
  • Bernardus
    Bernardus Posts: 136
    The fifth stage of the Tour de Suisse began with a two minute protest against what some teams described as the aggressive attitude of HTC-Columbia sprinter Mark Cavendish
    ...According to AFP, bystanders claimed that Cavendish spat on the ground in response to criticism from riders after Tuesday's incident.

    According to Eurosport, Cavendish spat on Haussler after the crash.

    http://www.eurosport.fr/cyclisme/tour-de-suisse/2010/une-greve-anti-cavendish_sto2364460/flashnews.shtml
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    cav came way off line...his initial lunge out to open his sprint was life threatening given the close barriers...I see Hunt involved in a protest against him 2day
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    So does anyone seriously disagree with these comments he made then

    "I'm not going to say that I'm not at fault, but I don't think I should have
    been held as the sole responsible," Cavendish said.

    "It's the worst fall of my career, the worst injuries that I've suffered, but there are riders who are in a worse state than me."

    That sounds like a reasonable response to me and the protest is over the top IMHO. I've seen far worse sprinting than that. Are they going to have a protest anytime a rider causes a crash?

    Maybe not 6 of one half a dozen of the other but maybe 9 of one 3 of the other.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    edited June 2010
    iainf72 wrote:
    At least he wears "his heart on his sleeve" - Rather a loutish goon than a pleasant bland guy etc etc.

    :wink:

    he is having a bad year.... he is a mediocre endurance athlete (his own words) with a remarkable sprinters kick...

    he clearly a rider who needs to put in the miles to hold his own otherwise he arrives at the finish with b"gger all glycogen in his legs... and struggles to do the Biz

    wintered poorly with dodgy teeth and came to the season a bit tubby... plus family problems with his brother being banged up..couldn't have helped even if it didn't really effect him that much... girl friend crap and on top of all that he is just a boy...


    just needs to mature a bit... I think we will see him smarten up.. he is lucky they have made it a point to rebuke him... wake up call
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • magicrhodes
    magicrhodes Posts: 123
    I find all this protest stuff a bit rich. I've watched pro-cycling for years and there has always been leaning, elbows and sometimes throwing stuff in a sprint. I fail to recall 2 minute protests at other sprinters who cause problems/crashes, mainly because they are all up to it. Part of this is to heap the pressure on sprint judges/commisaires prior to the TdF much like a football manager would by claiming a team is to physical before a match.

    Seems like a load of Euro-cry babies if you ask me! (if you don't ask me it is still my opinion!)
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    Pross wrote:
    So does anyone seriously disagree with these comments he made then

    "I'm not going to say that I'm not at fault, but I don't think I should have
    been held as the sole responsible," Cavendish said.

    "It's the worst fall of my career, the worst injuries that I've suffered, but there are riders who are in a worse state than me."

    That sounds like a reasonable response to me and the protest is over the top IMHO. I've seen far worse sprinting than that. Are they going to have a protest anytime a rider causes a crash?

    Maybe not 6 of one half a dozen of the other but maybe 9 of one 3 of the other.

    Nah... the man thing to do his take on all the responsibility and stop trying to blame others.... ...

    the incident is of his making

    I think this sort of attempt to dissipate and spread the blame is poor show
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm

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