Richmond Park 3-lap Challenge 2010

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Comments

  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Eh, how can tar be melting when temperatures are in the single digit levels? :?
  • TarmacExpert
    TarmacExpert Posts: 204
    RedGreenBaron wrote:
    Personally I blame the chap on top of the 'leaderboard' who is employing all his expertise........
    ROFL, yes, it's me going out there and making the roads unrideable so I can stay at the top :D

    That 3 laps was actually the last time I rode my bike, and I'm not going to be riding it again till some time in Feb as I'm resting from cycling to try to be in a fit state for some upcoming swimming competitions.

    BTW re your earlier request for info about AP and NP:

    AP = Average Power. Simply the artithmetic mean of all the power values recorded each second for the ride.

    NP = Normalized Power. The formula used to calculate this doesn't matter all that much, the point is that it is supposed to mimic the metabolic process going on in the body to work out the constant power output that would have caused the same stress on your body as what you actually did. It sort of represents "what you might have averaged" if only there weren't all those pesky uphill bits that make you work harder, downhill bits where you have to take it easy, roundabouts where cars hold you up etc.

    If you ride at constant power, AP=NP. The more variable your power output, the more NP will increase to be greater than AP, so it also gives you a measure of the variability of power output used in the ride.
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    Name........................Dir..........Wht........Time..........Mnth......Club.......TOR

    TarmacExpert.........Clock.......71kg.......60:26........Jan.......KW........Swimmer...AP 245W NP 258W
    CJCP........................Anti.........83kg......62:22........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
    JonGinge..................Anti.........67kg......65:00........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
    LFCQuin...................Anti.........82kg......66:00........Jan.......MW........Cat 3/Core
    Grrram....................Anti.........83kg......66:10........Jan.......none........Fitness/Sportive
    KingstonGraham.....Anti.........74kg......68:39........Jan.......NA........Triathlete
    JibberJim.................Clock......75kg......71.44........Jan........KW.......Cat 3/Aimless...AP 186W NP 281W
    NWLondoner...........Clock......61kg......77.56........Jan........??.........Fitness/Training

    (Just adding my watts) Remind me to have beating 186 watts for the hour as a goal.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • Damien_KW
    Damien_KW Posts: 47
    I rode through the park on Sunday and was amazed at how poorly the new surface had deteriorated during the bad weather. It seemed as though a whole new layer of gravel had just been added.

    The good news is that the park authorities are just as disappointed as us cyclists with the new surface so sweepers are being used to clear the roads and alternative surfaces are being looked into for the future.

    I suppose now is the time to lay down a benchmark time - it should be very easy to beat come the summer!
    IN THE SADDLE
    "Locals are watching from pavement cafés. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me." Tim Krabbé, The Rider
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    Damien_KW wrote:
    I suppose now is the time to lay down a benchmark time - it should be very easy to beat come the summer!

    You'll still likely be top right now... The gravel has been swept since the weekend, it's not quite so bad as it was. Still awful, but some sweeping has happened, and the roads faired better than some of the other parts.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • Big Red
    Big Red Posts: 19
    jibberjim wrote:
    Name........................Dir..........Wht........Time..........Mnth......Club.......TOR

    Big Red.....................Anti........97kg......59:34.........Jan.......N/A.......Fitness/Sportive
    TarmacExpert.........Clock.......71kg.......60:26........Jan.......KW........Swimmer...AP 245W NP 258W
    CJCP........................Anti.........83kg......62:22........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
    JonGinge..................Anti.........67kg......65:00........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
    LFCQuin...................Anti.........82kg......66:00........Jan.......MW........Cat 3/Core
    Grrram....................Anti.........83kg......66:10........Jan.......none........Fitness/Sportive
    KingstonGraham.....Anti.........74kg......68:39........Jan.......NA........Triathlete
    JibberJim.................Clock......75kg......71.44........Jan........KW.......Cat 3/Aimless...AP 186W NP 281W
    NWLondoner...........Clock......61kg......77.56........Jan........??.........Fitness/Training

    Went out at lunchtime today to try and make the most of the conditions - a light easterly definitely makes things a little easier! Pleased to be the first under the hour but I reckon it might only last a few hours - there were a few guys out there who looked quick.

    My PB from 2009 (58:47) is in my sights now...
  • marko1982
    marko1982 Posts: 24
    Name........................Dir..........Wht........Time..........Mnth......Club.......TOR

    Big Red.....................Anti........97kg......59:34.........Jan.......N/A.......Fitness/Sportive
    TarmacExpert.........Clock.......71kg.......60:26........Jan.......KW........Swimmer...AP 245W NP 258W
    CJCP........................Anti.........83kg......62:22........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
    Marko1982...............Anti.........82kg......62:28........Jan........N/A.......Triathlete
    JonGinge..................Anti.........67kg......65:00........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
    LFCQuin...................Anti.........82kg......66:00........Jan.......MW........Cat 3/Core
    Grrram....................Anti.........83kg......66:10........Jan.......none........Fitness/Sportive
    KingstonGraham.....Anti.........74kg......68:39........Jan.......NA........Triathlete
    JibberJim.................Clock......75kg......71.44........Jan........KW.......Cat 3/Aimless...AP 186W NP 281W
    NWLondoner...........Clock......61kg......77.56........Jan........??.........Fitness/Training

    After being a long time BikeRadar lurker and regularly slotting a lap of RP on my long rides I decided to have a crack at 3 laps as part of todays 67km ride. Pretty pleased with that as a benchmark to beat 60 mins when the weather improves and I can unleash the TT bike :-)


    Out of interest, does any one know the gradients of the hills in RP?
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    Kléber wrote:
    Eh, how can tar be melting when temperatures are in the single digit levels? :?

    I have no idea, but, after I'd had a shower yesterday after a few laps of the Park, my wife asked why there was tar on the floor of the shower. The surface is a right mess. I note that Susan Kramer MP is fighting the introduction of parking charges in RP. She appears to be doing the square root of bugger all though to correct the farm track that's developing. :?

    @Big Red - congrats on being the first to break the hour this year. :)
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • NWLondoner
    NWLondoner Posts: 2,047
    cjcp wrote:
    Kléber wrote:
    Eh, how can tar be melting when temperatures are in the single digit levels? :?

    I have no idea, but, after I'd had a shower yesterday after a few laps of the Park, my wife asked why there was tar on the floor of the shower. The surface is a right mess.

    I had the same problem too. The back of my Jersey is full of Tar stains caused by lumps of Tar after my sunday ride around RP. Never had this issue before
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    My club bib shorts are ruined too. :x
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • RedGreenBaron
    RedGreenBaron Posts: 232
    RedGreenBaron wrote:
    Surface update: in addition to gravel, tar has now become a problem, not so much during the ride but after. White spirit or equivalent gets it off the bike, but some clothes are ruined.
    So we're getting confirmation above of tar problems, in addition to the ongoing gravel/puncture problems.

    Although I mentioned the Parks people are not thrilled with all this either, it could help them to know that it really is affecting a lot of people.

    If you want to help the momentum for a quicker solution, you may wish to politely share your experiences with Simon Richards, the Park Manager at
    SRichards[at]royalparks.gsi.gov.uk

    Thanks.
  • NWLondoner
    NWLondoner Posts: 2,047
    RedGreenBaron wrote:
    RedGreenBaron wrote:
    Surface update: in addition to gravel, tar has now become a problem, not so much during the ride but after. White spirit or equivalent gets it off the bike, but some clothes are ruined.
    So we're getting confirmation above of tar problems, in addition to the ongoing gravel/puncture problems.

    Although I mentioned the Parks people are not thrilled with all this either, it could help them to know that it really is affecting a lot of people.

    If you want to help the momentum for a quicker solution, you may wish to politely share your experiences with Simon Richards, the Park Manager at
    SRichards[at]royalparks.gsi.gov.uk

    Thanks.


    Thanks, email sent
  • Petromyzon
    Petromyzon Posts: 221
    Name........................Dir..........Wht........Time..........Mnth......Club.......TOR

    Petromyzon..............Anti........75kg.....57.37........Jan......LD.......AP 297W NP 304W
    Big Red.....................Anti........97kg......59:34.........Jan.......N/A.......Fitness/Sportive
    TarmacExpert.........Clock.......71kg.......60:26........Jan.......KW........Swimmer...AP 245W NP 258W
    CJCP........................Anti.........83kg......62:22........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
    Marko1982...............Anti.........82kg......62:28........Jan........N/A.......Triathlete
    JonGinge..................Anti.........67kg......65:00........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
    LFCQuin...................Anti.........82kg......66:00........Jan.......MW........Cat 3/Core
    Grrram....................Anti.........83kg......66:10........Jan.......none........Fitness/Sportive
    KingstonGraham.....Anti.........74kg......68:39........Jan.......NA........Triathlete
    JibberJim.................Clock......75kg......71.44........Jan........KW.......Cat 3/Aimless...AP 186W NP 281W
    NWLondoner...........Clock......61kg......77.56........Jan........??.........Fitness/Training

    I'm expecting a short stay at the top!
  • london-red
    london-red Posts: 1,266
    Urgh... Didn't seem quite right today for some reason, don't know whether it was wind, surface, my legs or some other variable.

    Lots of people out though, unfortunately, Sunday drivers led to several hold ups. I reckon a couple of minutes could have been shaved off that time if there weren't so many stops.

    Name........................Dir..........Wht........Time..........Mnth......Club.......TOR

    Petromyzon..............Anti........75kg.....57.37........Jan......LD.......AP 297W NP 304W
    Big Red.....................Anti........97kg......59:34.........Jan.......N/A.......Fitness/Sportive
    TarmacExpert.........Clock.......71kg.......60:26........Jan.......KW........Swimmer...AP 245W NP 258W
    CJCP........................Anti.........83kg......62:22........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
    Marko1982...............Anti.........82kg......62:28........Jan........N/A.......Triathlete
    London-red...............Anti.........83kg......63:58........Jan........N/A.......Fitness
    JonGinge..................Anti.........67kg......65:00........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
    LFCQuin...................Anti.........82kg......66:00........Jan.......MW........Cat 3/Core
    Grrram....................Anti.........83kg......66:10........Jan.......none........Fitness/Sportive
    KingstonGraham.....Anti.........74kg......68:39........Jan.......NA........Triathlete
    JibberJim.................Clock......75kg......71.44........Jan........KW.......Cat 3/Aimless...AP 186W NP 281W
    NWLondoner...........Clock......61kg......77.56........Jan........??.........Fitness/Training
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    Name........................Dir..........Wht........Time..........Mnth......Club.......TOR

    JonGinge..................Anti.........67kg......57:33........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive (SS 48x16)
    Petromyzon..............Anti........75kg.....57.37........Jan......LD.......AP 297W NP 304W
    Big Red.....................Anti........97kg......59:34.........Jan.......N/A.......Fitness/Sportive
    TarmacExpert.........Clock.......71kg.......60:26........Jan.......KW........Swimmer...AP 245W NP 258W
    CJCP........................Anti.........83kg......62:22........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
    Marko1982...............Anti.........82kg......62:28........Jan........N/A.......Triathlete
    London-red...............Anti.........83kg......63:58........Jan........N/A.......Fitness
    LFCQuin...................Anti.........82kg......66:00........Jan.......MW........Cat 3/Core
    Grrram....................Anti.........83kg......66:10........Jan.......none........Fitness/Sportive
    KingstonGraham.....Anti.........74kg......68:39........Jan.......NA........Triathlete
    JibberJim.................Clock......75kg......71.44........Jan........KW.......Cat 3/Aimless...AP 186W NP 281W
    NWLondoner...........Clock......61kg......77.56........Jan........??.........Fitness/Training

    Plenty much noddy traffic out today which meant I was freewheeling and cursing (mostly under my breath) for much of the second lap. (Tailback caused by a learner driver having a lesson.)

    After the tar discussions earlier in the thread I decided to take the Pearson out coz it's got mudguards on. My new selle-italia slr is still white so I'm quite happy :)

    I, too, expect to fall down the table quite quickly.
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • Petromyzon
    Petromyzon Posts: 221
    Damn you JG! I'll get you next time, Gadget!

    Nice work on a SS:)
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    Sorry about that (Tom?). I did go to myself 'oof, that's gonna hurt' when I logged in and saw your time. Still, with the weather improving I'm sure the fast chaps will be along soon. The surface was the best it's been for a while: basically it's almost free of the chippings and back to the original surface. A few more sweeps...
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • flix23
    flix23 Posts: 72
    JonGinge..................Anti.........67kg......57:33........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive (SS 48x16)
    Petromyzon..............Anti........75kg.....57.37........Jan......LD.......AP 297W NP 304W
    Big Red.....................Anti........97kg......59:34.........Jan.......N/A.......Fitness/Sportive
    TarmacExpert.........Clock.......71kg.......60:26........Jan.......KW........Swimmer...AP 245W NP 258W
    CJCP........................Anti.........83kg......62:22........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
    Marko1982...............Anti.........82kg......62:28........Jan........N/A.......Triathlete
    London-red...............Anti.........83kg......63:58........Jan........N/A.......Fitness
    Flix23.......................Anti.........77kg.......65.15........Jan........N/A......Fitness/Sportive
    LFCQuin...................Anti.........82kg......66:00........Jan.......MW........Cat 3/Core
    Grrram....................Anti.........83kg......66:10........Jan.......none........Fitness/Sportive
    KingstonGraham.....Anti.........74kg......68:39........Jan.......NA........Triathlete
    JibberJim.................Clock......75kg......71.44........Jan........KW.......Cat 3/Aimless...AP 186W NP 281W
    NWLondoner...........Clock......61kg......77.56........Jan........??.........Fitness/Training

    Got a bit held up by traffic, but reasonably satisfied for this time of the year.
  • Petromyzon
    Petromyzon Posts: 221
    That's alright, I'll let you off;) Do I remember reading somewhere on BR that you had a PowerTap? Keen to see some numbers when you are back on the geared bike.

    Agree re: surface. Only time it is irritating is coming down Broomfield, when you want the confidence of a clean road.
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    Petromyzon wrote:
    That's alright, I'll let you off;) Do I remember reading somewhere on BR that you had a PowerTap? Keen to see some numbers when you are back on the geared bike.

    Agree re: surface. Only time it is irritating is coming down Broomfield, when you want the confidence of a clean road.
    Almost rode the PT today but for the tar issue. I don't have WKO+ at the moment but using the trial version on my 54:32 from last year worked out at an FTP of 315Watts. Balmy conditions for that ride, though
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    Good early season form, Jon :) .

    What's Sawyer's Hill like then?
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    cjcp wrote:
    Good early season form, Jon :) .

    What's Sawyer's Hill like then?
    Ta. Bit worried about HOTA next week, though. Not done any long rides at all this year... :oops:

    You still have to follow the car tracks on sawyers and down broomfield. Otherwise it's not too bad and much better than last weekend.
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • Abdoujaparov
    Abdoujaparov Posts: 642
    Nice times folks. At this rate it's going to take a serious performance to place well in the next couple of weeks.

    Lovely late afternoon ride in RP yesterday - didn't go for a time (knackered after four consecutive days of fairly heavy training) - but it's starting to feel like spring is just round the corner. Wasn't too busy with cars and the surface definitely is a little better - no braking down Broomfield Hill for a change!
  • Petromyzon
    Petromyzon Posts: 221
    @jonginge
    interesting...
    just shows the importance of conditions (as if we didn't know). I did 54.21 last year and would probably have been around 290W NP, if that. However, my bike is heavy, no posh kit of any sort 'cept 25 mm Pro Race 3s for low CRR and I'm quite a few kg heavier than you. I chose the right wind:)

    On the flip side I can't imagine all of the sub-50 people hung around for the right wind, so there are some peeps pushing BIG watts round RP.

    Golden Cheetah calculates xpower and is free. IIRC xpower comes out v close to NP.
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    Petromyzon wrote:
    just shows the importance of conditions (as if we didn't know). I did 54.21 last year and would probably have been around 290W NP, if that. However, my bike is heavy, no posh kit of any sort 'cept 25 mm Pro Race 3s for low CRR and I'm quite a few kg heavier than you. I chose the right wind:)

    I did 330 NP for my 54:58. But I'm extremely un-aero. Need to sort that out and I'll get the time down a fair bit.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    Just had a play here...

    http://bikecalculator.com/wattsUS.html

    And my average power for my best 3 laps comes out at 317w. No accounting for gradient, wind etc though. What do the power stats actually tell us though?
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/41991871@N ... otostream/
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    MatHammond wrote:
    And my average power for my best 3 laps comes out at 317w. No accounting for gradient, wind etc though. What do the power stats actually tell us though?

    Well Petromyzon stats say he's extremely even with his riding spins up the hills with just about the same watts as when he's going on the flat or even downhill. I've no idea how he manages it.

    And that's the sort of thing that is going to be what's at least interesting to us numbers geeks, who have few other goals than seeing good numbers (watts, times etc.) is the way to get good times on the 3 lap challenge, also let us see if we're more or less aero, or more or less unlucky with the weather etc. etc.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    In a spirit of sharing here's my garmin data from my 54:32:
    http://connect.garmin.com/activity/3922152
    You can see where I was freewheeling in traffic between richmond and ham gates on the first lap...
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    He's probably giving it maximum power the whole way round, which is key to a good time. Would be interesting to see where I dropped off - probably at the top of the hills - and would be interesting to see if I could convert same power into more speed through aero changes etc.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/41991871@N ... otostream/
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    MatHammond wrote:
    He's probably giving it maximum power the whole way round, which is key to a good time.

    Actually it's probably not, the best pacing strategy for the park is unlikely to be even power output, you should be pushing harder on the uphill more than the down - no point trying to overcome the air resistance to push the speed up from 54kph to 55kph on a descent when you could use the same power to push from 20 to 25 on an uphill section.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/

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