Richmond Park 3-lap Challenge 2010

RedGreenBaron

Mention was made of a peloton of riders setting 2010 times on NYD, so here goes:
The new RP3 thread.

So more than 140 took part in 2009 (http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopi ... &start=860), a 70% increase on 2008. It could go either way this year, with cycling even more popular, but on the other hand the park getting fuller, and not only of loose gravel (but also deer, cars, enforcers and cyclists).

Guidelines:
1. 3 continuous laps of RP, anti- or clock-wise (or a mixture), with the general view that anti is easier/safer.
2. Start, rolling or standing, where you like and finish at the same place.
3. KEEP IT SAFE. Squeezing through that gap might make all the difference in beating your PB, but far better you live to fight another day and improve even more. In the red mist of the 3rd lap it is VERY easy to forget this and indeed to annoy the hell out of other RP users. To this end, attempts are best made very early at the weekend, mid-morning/mid-afternoon during the week and just before dusk.
4. Given '3' above, feel free to comment on the traffic, suicidal deer or even the horrendous westerly. The reader can adjust his/her impression of the time and it might dissuade you from roundabout madness.
5. Most of us try to avoid drafting. You might not be able to help it in traffic, but you'll be losing more from the traffic than you're gaining anyway.
6. In the entry feel free to mention : your bike (TT/shopper etc), your weight (seems to be a tradition) and even your 'type of rider' (sportive, racer, audax, tri); and, in the text, perhaps your aim for the year .
7. Please add your post to the previous list, and try to make sure you use the most recent list, so we don't lose entries. Remove your old entry and put your new one in time order, emboldened for easy viewing.

Here's a starter - first poster please replace
Anon......................anti........74kg.......69:59......Jan..........Elite Racer, bmx


Hope this inspires a few more people to new highs, as I'm sure it did over the last couple of years. My favourite part of it is to watch the progress of others over the year, whether from 90 to 65, or from 52 to 49. The actual times are almost irrelevant.

And one more thing, don't be surprised if, on trying to record your first time since last August, that you are several minutes slower. In addition to whatever's happened to your training over the last few months, it seems air density (higher at colder temperatures) can make as much as 2 minutes difference (thanks TarmacExpert).

Nick

felgen

Yay! roll on 2010, hope to post a time before February but its a bit of a trek to get there these days....

NWLondoner

Roll on Tomorrow. I plan to be over there around 8.30 so hope to my 1st time of 2010 on the board. Mind you it will be a cr*p time :shock: :oops:

cjcp

Oh, goody - more pain.

Nice one, RGB. Happy New Year to you.

Planning to do a steady six laps on Sunday to begin the process of shedding the winter "coat". Might post three laps then. I'll be on a heavy cross bike, so if I post within 70 mins, I'll be amazed.

@Felgen - you should be threatening the top 5 this year.

NWLondoner

NWLondoner...........Clock......61kg......77.56........Jan......Fitness/Training


Ok I know this will be smashed to pieces within hours but hey at least it gives me a benchmark.

1st time i've done a timed clockwise 3 lapper and almost 3 months with almost NO riding so it'll do. Usually prefer anti but need to improve my hill climbing so Broomfield and that long drag after Dark Hill will help.


Tried to get my 1st 100km of 2010 done but died on last 10k so only managed 80km :x


May try again on Sunday

jibberjim

cjcp wrote:

Planning to do a steady six laps on Sunday to begin the process of shedding the winter "coat". Might post three laps then. I'll be on a heavy cross bike, so if I post within 70 mins, I'll be amazed.

I went for a little spin in the park today, wasn't feeling great due to lack of sleep, but I did one hard lap, due to the traffic, the crap north west winds, it was down at 21:09, and the traffic was if anything worse on my easier laps.

So I doubt we'll see any fast times today.

Should've gone off into the hills, but it was still under 1C when I left home at midday, so I was wary of ice.

cjcp

NWLondoner wrote:

Usually prefer anti but need to improve my hill climbing so Broomfield and that long drag after Dark Hill will help.

Oddly, going ant-c/w may help your climbing more because you can practice putting big efforts in up Dark Hill (which has that little kick to it at the end) and Sawyer's, particularly after the drag up from Roehampton Gate. Was discussing this only a couple of days ago with Jon Ginge.

@jibberjim - yep, good idea to avoid the hills today. There was ice on the slabs in my back garden.

RedGreenBaron

NWLondoner wrote:

NWLondoner...........Clock......61kg......77.56........Jan......Fitness/Training

Well done indeed NWL. Even if the time gets beaten, noone else can post the first time of the year!

And Happy New Year to you also CJCP, and indeed all the RP3Lers. I'm off to Spain shortly for my annual migration (for a month), so will have to wait til at least Feb to get a time on.

Nick

Toks

Well done RedGreenBaron for setting things up so nicely! The 2010 RP challenge is up and running. Congrats to NWLondoner - top of the leaderboard. Have a great 2010 on your bikes everyone.

Name........................Dir..........Wht........Time..........Mnth....TOR

NWLondoner...........Clock......61kg......77.56........Jan......Fitness/Training

TOR: Type of Rider
Dir: Clockwise/anti-clockwise

"...Once you can do 3 laps of Richmond Park in under 60 minutes you'll be more than ready for any sportive challenge" (Gold cat rider-Etape 2005)

jibberjim

Name........................Dir..........Wht........Time..........Mnth......Club.......TOR

JibberJim.................Clock......75kg......71.44........Jan........KW.......Cat 3/Aimless
NWLondoner...........Clock......61kg......77.56........Jan........??.........Fitness/Training

TOR: Type of Rider
Dir: Clockwise/anti-clockwise
Club: The cycling club you're a member of, should you wish...

Wasn't really having a go today, but was doing more of a Fartlek session with some hard intervals of varying duration, hence I did 186 watt average, 281 watt NP so a VI of 1.51 which I'm pretty sure is not the fastest way to lap the park, but as it was enough for perhaps my one and only shot at being top of the list I'm having it on the list.

I added in a column for club, I'd like one for watts too, but I fear there may not be enough of us power geeks to do that.

richa

I too would be in favour of a power column, or square brackets after the entry). It would be a good test of real world FTP. And would mean that the non powered up , like me, could estimate FTP based upon times.

Which is more appropriate >> AP or NP?

jibberjim

RichA wrote:

Which is more appropriate >> AP or NP?

I think it's an open question... ie what is the pacing strategy that leads to the best time for the park. Do you go a bit deeper on the steep hills, or do you try and ride even. So Both NP and AP would be interesting. Although I think we can say for certain the 1.51 VI (NP/AP) that I did is not the best way.

However for other people to use it as a guide, they're going to need to know how aero the set up was too.

cjcp

Name........................Dir..........Wht........Time..........Mnth......Club.......TOR

CJCP.......................Anti.........83kg......65:30........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
JibberJim.................Clock......75kg......71.44........Jan........KW.......Cat 3/Aimless
NWLondoner...........Clock......61kg......77.56........Jan........??.........Fitness/Training

The only time I'm gonna ever be top because I went out with Jon Ginge this afternoon and he'll post a faster time . (In reality, he was way, way faster than me today. I got blitzed by him on Dark Hill every time, and he was soft-pedalling to let me catch up.)

Took the crosser out and felt bl00dy awful going around, quite frankly. There was a lovely tailwind up the drag to Sawyer's Hill and the traffic was ok, but I had a tight chest (I get cold-induced asthma) and had to ask JG to slow down more than a couple of times :oops: .

TarmacExpert

RichA wrote:

I too would be in favour of a power column, or square brackets after the entry). It would be a good test of real world FTP. And would mean that the non powered up , like me, could estimate FTP based upon times.

Which is more appropriate >> AP or NP?

AP is what should go in the table if we're going to have a power column. AP together with the time tells you how many kJ of work you did, it's the definitive measure of the workrate for the ride. NP is just a made up number that may or may not have real-world meaning. It's an interesting number, that's for sure, but if we're going to choose one or the other to go into the table, AP is the most important number.

I'd fancy my chances of going top at the moment if this weren't my 5th day of being ill

jibberjim

TarmacExpert wrote:

NP is just a made up number that may or may not have real-world meaning. It's an interesting number, that's for sure, but if we're going to choose one or the other to go into the table, AP is the most important number.

I'm not going to defend the made-up-ness of NP, but for a maximal 1 hour effort around the park, the fastest way for me is not to do the highest Average Power I can put out. Spending watts trying to lift myself from 45 to 46km/h along the downhill bits is not worth it when those same watts will give me 20 to 24km/h on the steep bits.

But I also know there's people out there who choose to ride it much more even than I do, just quoting AP doesn't reveal the same info. But as I said, I'm not completely convinced it's worthwhile, since aerodynamics will play such a big part...

jonginge

Name........................Dir..........Wht........Time..........Mnth......Club.......TOR

JonGinge...................Anti.........67kg......65:00........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
CJCP........................Anti.........83kg......65:30........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
JibberJim.................Clock......75kg......71.44........Jan........KW.......Cat 3/Aimless
NWLondoner...........Clock......61kg......77.56........Jan........??.........Fitness/Training

cjcp wrote:

The only time I'm gonna ever be top because I went out with Jon Ginge this afternoon and he'll post a faster time . (In reality, he was way, way faster than me today. I got blitzed by him on Dark Hill every time, and he was soft-pedalling to let me catch up.)

Took the crosser out and felt bl00dy awful going around, quite frankly. There was a lovely tailwind up the drag to Sawyer's Hill and the traffic was ok, but I had a tight chest (I get cold-induced asthma) and had to ask JG to slow down more than a couple of times :oops: .

Was a good, if cold, ride. The digs up Dark hill served to warm me up a bit Not a lot of traffic so we were in two-by-two formation for most of the 4 and a bit laps CJ and I rode together.
My time is from the last three laps. On the first 3 I would have been approx a second faster than CJ Either way, for the first and last time, I'm top of the table! Huzzah

Brufafa

Just a question - Is this Road or is there an XC version? Undoubtedly my XC route will secure me dead set last.

TarmacExpert

jibberjim wrote:

I'm not going to defend the made-up-ness of NP, but for a maximal 1 hour effort around the park, the fastest way for me is not to do the highest Average Power I can put out. Spending watts trying to lift myself from 45 to 46km/h along the downhill bits is not worth it when those same watts will give me 20 to 24km/h on the steep bits.

But I also know there's people out there who choose to ride it much more even than I do, just quoting AP doesn't reveal the same info. But as I said, I'm not completely convinced it's worthwhile, since aerodynamics will play such a big part...

I do agree it's useful extra info, I just don't think it should be the only power number given, if we're going to have a power number in there.

If you pace it as you described, and go faster with lower AP, then you must have done fewer kJ of work. So, pacing could be seen as one contributor to efficiency, along with aerodynamics, other aspects of equipment such as tyre rolling resistance, body position etc. It might not be all that useful for people without power meters to estimate their power, but for those of us with power meters, if I see someone of a similar bodyweight going faster with less power than me, it will make me want to try to work out what they're doing to have greater efficiency than me, though of course conditions have a big impact, too.

Bhima

How far is 3 laps?

Looking at the times, i'm guessing about 40k?

Might be down that way at some point this year, so i'll give it a go.

redvee

Don't venture into the challenge but I've made a contribution in the form of a Googledoc page for all to add their times to. If there are any changes to be made feel free to add them as I've left it open for anybody to edit.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... 7FQ&hl=en#

redvee

Bhima wrote:

How far is 3 laps?

Looking at the times, i'm guessing about 40k?

Might be down that way at some point this year, so i'll give it a go.

3 laps is just on 20 miles.

Brufafa wrote:

Just a question - Is this Road or is there an XC version? Undoubtedly my XC route will secure me dead set last.

There is a bridal path beside the road that some of those assembled for the SCR Summer Drinks ride chose to do including a fixed gear and a £4k Viner.

itboffin

JonGinge wrote:

Name........................Dir..........Wht........Time..........Mnth......Club.......TOR

JonGinge...................Anti.........67kg......65:00........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
CJCP........................Anti.........83kg......65:30........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
JibberJim.................Clock......75kg......71.44........Jan........KW.......Cat 3/Aimless
NWLondoner...........Clock......61kg......77.56........Jan........??.........Fitness/Training

65s already, right you two are going on "the list" :evil:

Petromyzon

Happy New Year to all, wishing you a fun and safe year on the roads.

It might make the table a little unwieldy but pretty please can we have NP and AP? Both useful in my opinion. Direction is a little less useful as come the fast months I think most people will be going anti for the easier roundabouts...

TarmacExpert

Another thing is should we have date and time instead of just month, so people can look up the weather data on wunderground if they want?

jibberjim

TarmacExpert wrote:

Another thing is should we have date and time instead of just month, so people can look up the weather data on wunderground if they want?

A couple of days ago I almost ordered a full gps/temp/humidity/pressure sensor, but I eventually decided I wasn't (yet?) geeky enough...

lfcquin

Name........................Dir..........Wht........Time..........Mnth......Club.......TOR

CJCP.......................Anti.........83kg......65:30........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
LFCQuin..................Anti.........82kg......66:00........Jan.......MW........Cat 3/Core
JibberJim.................Clock......75kg......71.44........Jan........KW.......Cat 3/Aimless
NWLondoner...........Clock......61kg......77.56........Jan........??.........Fitness/Training

I didn't expect to be in here! I was visiting some friends for New Year near Staines. It was my first time in RP and I had no idea this competition was running, so I am impressed with my time considering I wasn't doing this under competitive conditions.

Considering the traffic though, I am not sure I could have done much better. First park I have ever been in with traffic jams! Lunch time on the 1st Jan was probably not the best time to put an attempt in.

I have an excuse to visit my friends and post a more serious attempt now though!

jonginge

Name........................Dir..........Wht........Time..........Mnth......Club.......TOR

JonGinge..................Anti.........67kg......65:00........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
CJCP........................Anti.........83kg......65:30........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
LFCQuin...................Anti.........82kg......66:00........Jan.......MW........Cat 3/Core
JibberJim.................Clock......75kg......71.44........Jan........KW.......Cat 3/Aimless
NWLondoner...........Clock......61kg......77.56........Jan........??.........Fitness/Training

Repost with my stunning time put back in

cjcp

itboffin wrote:

JonGinge wrote:

Name........................Dir..........Wht........Time..........Mnth......Club.......TOR

JonGinge...................Anti.........67kg......65:00........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
CJCP........................Anti.........83kg......65:30........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
JibberJim.................Clock......75kg......71.44........Jan........KW.......Cat 3/Aimless
NWLondoner...........Clock......61kg......77.56........Jan........??.........Fitness/Training

65s already, right you two are going on "the list" :evil:

Heh heh. RP is waiting for you, ITB.

lfcquin

JonGinge wrote:

Name........................Dir..........Wht........Time..........Mnth......Club.......TOR

JonGinge..................Anti.........67kg......65:00........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
CJCP........................Anti.........83kg......65:30........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
LFCQuin...................Anti.........82kg......66:00........Jan.......MW........Cat 3/Core
JibberJim.................Clock......75kg......71.44........Jan........KW.......Cat 3/Aimless
NWLondoner...........Clock......61kg......77.56........Jan........??.........Fitness/Training

Repost with my stunning time put back in

Sorry. Missed that. :oops:

kingstongraham

Name........................Dir..........Wht........Time..........Mnth......Club.......TOR

JonGinge..................Anti.........67kg......65:00........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
CJCP........................Anti.........83kg......65:30........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
LFCQuin...................Anti.........82kg......66:00........Jan.......MW........Cat 3/Core
KingstonGraham.....Anti.........74kg......68:39........Jan.......NA........Triathlete
JibberJim.................Clock......75kg......71.44........Jan........KW.......Cat 3/Aimless
NWLondoner...........Clock......61kg......77.56........Jan........??.........Fitness/Training

cjcp

Name........................Dir..........Wht........Time..........Mnth......Club.......TOR

CJCP........................Anti.........83kg......62:22........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
JonGinge..................Anti.........67kg......65:00........Jan........KW.......Commuter/Sportive
LFCQuin...................Anti.........82kg......66:00........Jan.......MW........Cat 3/Core
KingstonGraham.....Anti.........74kg......68:39........Jan.......NA........Triathlete
JibberJim.................Clock......75kg......71.44........Jan........KW.......Cat 3/Aimless
NWLondoner...........Clock......61kg......77.56........Jan........??.........Fitness/Training

Sorry, JG. I feel guilty now asking him to slow down.

Felt much better today. More in reserve too on each lap due to traffic, a chat and some prolonged free-wheeling on the last lap down from Richmond Gate. Dark Hill remained a real struggle each time round, but had a bit more in the lungs on the other sections. Note to self: use inhaler before going out for a ride in these temps. :oops: