Hell of Ashdown

rogsmer

guys just got back from the 50k and you were all spot on with the ice. it was so bad down at the bottom of baileys that the ice was around 3cm deep and i ended up falling off and grazing my knee.

Mccaria

Well that was fun. 67 miles spent looking for the next ice patch. Quite a few times we had to get off the bikes and walk because of the ice. Saw at least 4 people go over on the ice, but fortunately all at very low speeds.

Glad its over. Must remember next year that sportives are a summer event.

phreak

There was a lot of ice, which resulted in either very slow or walking down many of the lanes. Despite the very slow time it was a nice enough day out. Some nice hills in the legs. Just a shame that the route wasn't moved onto main roads like was suggested in the case of ice.

ugo.santalucia

From what I've heard, it should have been cancelled.

I don't know what the organisers had in mind, but attemped butchery...

It was obvious since friday that it was not possible to go ahead with this... (actually I had king of made up my mind even before friday's rain, just by looking at the projected temperatures for the weekend) I hope nobody got seriously hurt.

Sometimes being sensible is not such a bad idea!

phreak

To be honest it wasn't dangerously icy (that I could tell anyway). The bad bits were well marshalled so you were only crawling along it. If there was some at the bottom of a descent then fair enough but the danger was to your time more than your body.

My time stank but as always with the bike I feel better for having got out there. It was cold but certainly a lot warmer than last year.

ugo.santalucia

phreak wrote:

To be honest it wasn't dangerously icy (that I could tell anyway). The bad bits were well marshalled so you were only crawling along it. If there was some at the bottom of a descent then fair enough but the danger was to your time more than your body.

My time stank but as always with the bike I feel better for having got out there. It was cold but certainly a lot warmer than last year.

SOmebody said he's seen 4 people falling off, how can you say it wasn't dangerous ice? You don't need to hit it at 30 mph to get hurt... actually I came off the A 40 a few weeks back as I was doing 20+, I slided on my bum and didn't hurt myself, had I been slower I might have fallen harder...

Don't know, I just think that an organiser who sends peolpe on the road knowing there is significant ice on the road is completely mad.

I made my mind up regardless of the organiser as I had the feeling it was all a bit irresponsible: we received only one warning a couple of weeks back... no recent updates on the website (when it was clear that the roads had more than just one dusting of early morning ice), no other messages, no message warning about the risk and inviting those travelling a long way to consider whether appropriate... all a bit left to the individual to gather information here and there...
Maybe I'm just getting used to the nanny state...

Seanos

Mccaria wrote:

Saw at least 4 people go over on the ice, but fortunately all at very low speeds.

I might have been one of them, although it took such a long time to stop skidding on a sheet of black ice I don't think I was going that slowly! Tip for you all - orange lenses are useless in these conditions, I couldn't tell the difference between tarmac, ice, slush, cow sh1te or mud.

I managed to add on a few extra miles (well, quite a few actually) by taking a detour to Brasted and doing Star Hill a second time. Cheers to the non-sportive rider I met there who was heading back to Star Hill and gave me a pull at a fair clip.

Conditions weren't great but the clue is in the title. If you're not up for some hell then don't enter and leave a space for someone who is.

phreak

ugo.santalucia wrote:

phreak wrote:

To be honest it wasn't dangerously icy (that I could tell anyway). The bad bits were well marshalled so you were only crawling along it. If there was some at the bottom of a descent then fair enough but the danger was to your time more than your body.

My time stank but as always with the bike I feel better for having got out there. It was cold but certainly a lot warmer than last year.

SOmebody said he's seen 4 people falling off, how can you say it wasn't dangerous ice? You don't need to hit it at 30 mph to get hurt... actually I came off the A 40 a few weeks back as I was doing 20+, I slided on my bum and didn't hurt myself, had I been slower I might have fallen harder...

Don't know, I just think that an organiser who sends peolpe on the road knowing there is significant ice on the road is completely mad.

I made my mind up regardless of the organiser as I had the feeling it was all a bit irresponsible: we received only one warning a couple of weeks back... no recent updates on the website (when it was clear that the roads had more than just one dusting of early morning ice), no other messages, no message warning about the risk and inviting those travelling a long way to consider whether appropriate... all a bit left to the individual to gather information here and there...
Maybe I'm just getting used to the nanny state...

Just saying what I saw. My mate took a tumble but that was as he was dismounting to walk down some ice after we were told to by a warden. No real damage done.

My memory might be failing me but I'm sure some of the lanes we went down today were missed last year due to the weather. That would be my only real grumble as the main roads were fine, it was just the lanes that weren't so hot.

I would probably be grumbling a bit more had I travelled any distance for it but it's a reasonably local ride for me so I was just pleased to get out. Not fussed about the time, just wanted some nice hilly miles in the legs, and got that today.

ugo.santalucia

There is just one glitch...

Are we sure the insurance covers the event even if the organiser has decided to go ahead knowing there is ice on the roads?

If I were the insurance company, I wouldn't miss the opportunity to expose some small print saying that such extreme conditions are not covered.

TheStone

Most of the roads were ok, but the ones that were bad, were really bad.

I fell off early, no real harm done, but confidence was shot, so I walked all the icy
bits after that.

Not sure why they couldn't have detoured round the few lanes that had so much ice.
Hope no-one's badly hurt. I'm not one for over doing the 'health and safety' thingy, but
some of that was a bit silly.

Seanos

Jesus ugo, are you looking for a refund or something? Why are you getting so exercised about the event insurance when you stayed in bed?

ugo.santalucia

Seanos wrote:

Jesus ugo, are you looking for a refund or something? Why are you getting so exercised about the event insurance when you stayed in bed?

You are right... I am just staggered by the complete irresponsability of the organiser... today we have cancelled all our sunday rides... even those starting at 11AM as it was simply impossible to ride safely... all we could do safely was a ride in central London... which we did and enjoyed.

I struggle to understand how this event was allowed to go ahead regardless in this era of over-protection... irresponsability is my only answer...

What would have happened if someone got seriously hurt? I would have felt terrible if being the organiser

Gazzaputt

I gave it a miss as I knew it'd be very icy out there. After last year's bad weather I really didn't want the same experience as that ride.

Shame this event isn't later in the year. It's a early season reliability ride that's grown and grown beyond all proportions. I think it should be looked at moving to a late spring date imo.

TheStone

Gazzaputt wrote:

Shame this event isn't later in the year. It's a early season reliability ride that's grown and grown beyond all proportions. I think it should be looked at moving to a late spring date imo.

It is quite good having this early season option. It's a great route, but the weather over
the last couple of years has been fairly freakish.

My only grumble is that the could have avoided most of the ice, without that much
effort or taking much from the event.

greenyac

This was my first ever sportive and I really enjoyed it. I only did the 50k route.

Fuji Mackers

Great day out, yes a bit of ice but everyone I saw rode through it carefully. Well apart from me stupidly trying to change my direction on a particuarly slushy bit.

Forgot just how hilly it was and the last few bumps at the end were a struggle, and I ended up 25 mins down from last year. The organisation was great and all the marshalls and cameramen all had a good word of encouragement. Feed stations were well stocked, with some hot drinks even to warm things up.

The only people who didnt enjoy the day were those not doing it, it seems - please dont complain and ruin it for all of us.

rogsmer

hey greenyac it was my first sportif as well and i also did the 50k!
what time did you get? i missed the 3hour barrier by 43 seconds.

rogsmer

for all of you there. i was the silly one wearing the garmin chipotle kit wearing bib shorts instead of trousers. i lost count of how many times i had that pointed out to me.

Seanos

Fuji Mackers wrote:

The only people who didnt enjoy the day were those not doing it, it seems - please dont complain and ruin it for all of us.

+1

gabriel959

I did it and I think it should have either been cancelled, or changed to main roads or something. Not a happy bunny in that respect.

greenyac

rogsmer wrote:

hey greenyac it was my first sportif as well and i also did the 50k!
what time did you get? i missed the 3hour barrier by 43 seconds.

2hrs 49mins. Think I need some more hill training!

Le Commentateur

Bad Catford! Move this event back to early March and reinstate your old reliability ride through Turners Hill for this January weekend.

Letting loose hundreds of riders, many of whom don't know the area (and therefore can't improvise an ice-avoiding detour) was a bad joke and dumb route planning for the potential conditions. Winter reliability rides in the area tend to primarily use B class roads, and it was interesting from that point of view to find all the icy issues were in the narrower lanes.

The stretch above Dormansland just before the descent to Hartfield was an accident waiting to happen and was totally unncessary anyway as there was an A road running parallel to it that was dry and had hardly any traffic on it and we used that and the B road to Hartfield to get away from the ice.

Neil A

God, talk about moaning. I didn't have to get off once, just unclip one pedal and scoot across the ice if it's that bad. Keep your weight central, don't brake and don't steer. Anticipate the ice and glide over it. If you're that nervous, walk across the verge or the gritty bit at the side of the road. Don't blame the event because you can't balance on your bike!!

It's January, it's freezing, it's going to be icy! There were numerous warning signs put out and help from marshalls.

triolly

I totally agree with the previous post. I have ridden throughout the winter using a cross bike when it was snowy and sticking to main roads when icey. I spoke to the organiser at the finish and they claimed that a club member went around laying out the course the night before and told them it was fine. At the start line I asked if we were using the icey road alternative route and was told someone had been around the course that morning and it was fine to ride. this is ridiculous and we hit ice on the first major decent, no warning, no marshall and a very steep down hill. I stopped at the bottom adn spoke to the marshall asking them to call the organiser and ask him to change the course or atleast warn people as they left.
With the amount of frost on the cars and ice at the side of the road it must have been clear to the organisers that they needed to play it safe but they choose to endanger every rider. I can understand if the choice was between running and canceling the event which is always a tough call but they had an alternative that would have been much better.
I hope thatt he organisers send an apology and explanation of why they made the decision they did. This could be great early season sportive but I am sure many people would have been put off by yesterday.

triolly

i was agreeing with la Cmmentateur not Neil A
Not sure what ride Neil did but there was ice across the entire road or many points. At one point the road had been closed by police due to an accident caused by ice. A little paper sign was left warning cyclists to be careful ( no extra marshall).
We know it is january and it may be icey but that is why they had an alternative route.
Neil A would probably prefer all the new cyclists that turn events like this from 50 guys doing an old fashioned reliability trial into 1000 people doing a sportive didn't bother riding. This is not about bike handling skills as ice is too unpredictable for that. It is a safety matter pure and simple. If you tell riders at the start line that roads are ok and then you unexpectedly hit ice on the first steep downhill people will come down.

Mccaria

Having looked at my Garmin. I was out for just under 5 hours, which splits down to just over 4 hours of proper riding, circa 40 minutes of walking/easing over ice and 5-10 minutes eating at the two stops.

Interesting thing I discovered is that Speedplay cleats have remarkable grip in the ice !

As mentioned by other posters I would be interested to understand why the alternative route was not used. I had ridden on some of these roads the previous weekend and with the freezing conditions on Friday and Saturday night it was evident there would be patches of ice, particularly on the less well used lanes.

I am glad I did it, but there were a couple of occasions when I was thinking to myself if I fall off and crack a collar bone I will feel such a numpty.

Neil A

triolly wrote:

This is not about bike handling skills as ice is too unpredictable for that. It is a safety matter pure and simple. If you tell riders at the start line that roads are ok and then you unexpectedly hit ice on the first steep downhill people will come down.

Tripe. If you've ever ridden a mountain bike you'd understand the importance of anticipating hazards on the road/trail. I hope you're a better driver than you are cyclist if you think ice is too unpredictable to bother modifying how you travel over it.

If they'd used the modified route on larger gritted roads you'd probably moan that there was too much traffic!

dossf

I did the ride with 3 others. Instead of whinging and blaming Catford CC who organised a good event, with great facilities at the start / finish, we did that rare thing in the UK nowadays - took responsibility for our own decisions!

One of our group decided he didn't like the ice, so he pulled out a went for a different ride. The rest of us were OK with it and carried on.

Yes, there was ice in parts, but I didn't uncleat the whole way - I reckon you're safer riding as Neil A describes - the main hazard was people walking on the ice, who looked very unstable to me.

My main issue was too many hillls too early in the season, but I'm the only person to blame for finding that hard

ugo.santalucia

Some happy, some disappointed, some furious...

From what I read here and elsewhere, the organisers made the wrong call, especially as there was a safer plan B.
Talking of bike control over ice is nonsense, ice hits hard even the most experienced rider (and mountain bikers as well).

I am glad I trusted my own judgement rather than the common sense of the organiser, who was clearly poor

Neil A

dossf wrote:

I did the ride with 3 others. Instead of whinging and blaming Catford CC who organised a good event, with great facilities at the start / finish, we did that rare thing in the UK nowadays - took responsibility for our own decisions!

Here here.