And the hits just keep on coming! 3 more riders positive
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Because the Spanish federation is inept and spineless? Unless you think Valverde is whiter than white as well...0
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I was going to say that I wont accept any fob-offs to do with Spanish authorities. I want more information. Give it to me all, the whole story.Contador is the Greatest0
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Valverde is a superb rider and has provided me with much entertainment and excitement. If he is proven to be a doper fine, it wont detract from anything too much.Contador is the Greatest0
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How is that a fob-off? You asked why no action was taken. No action was taken because no investigation was carried out. We don't know how involved Contador was because all the Spanish riders were given a free pass without any questions asked.0
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Whereas non-Spanish riders, such as Ullrich, Basso and Scarponi, were given bans for their involvement in Puerto.
Of course there is no suggestion whatsoever of a cover up by the Spanish authorities. Oh no, not even an inkling of one. Meanwhile their national teams excel in many, many sports.0 -
And what did the UCI do? They cleared him didn't they? Is the UCI run exclusively by Spanish people? What did the Clerk of the ASO say on the matter?
Why was action taken on other riders and not Contador? Because Contador was not implicated.
Who provided the 36 page document in the first place? The Spanish.
How many references are there to Contador? Two.
How many of these implicate him? None.
What did Fuentes say? That he worked with some of the riders but not with Contador.
Has he worked with Ferrari? No. Has Lance? Yes.
Is this evidence Contador doped? No.
Can someone provide me something substantial relating to my original point?Contador is the Greatest0 -
andyp wrote:Whereas non-Spanish riders, such as Ullrich, Basso and Scarponi, were given bans for their involvement in Puerto.
Of course there is no suggestion whatsoever of a cover up by the Spanish authorities. Oh no, not even an inkling of one. Meanwhile their national teams excel in many, many sports.
There were nine riders in Puerto. Scarponi wasn't one. None get a ban apart from Basso who admitted to doping.Contador is the Greatest0 -
frenchfighter wrote:Valverde is a superb rider and has provided me with much entertainment and excitement. If he is proven to be a doper fine, it wont detract from anything too much.
Really?
Very revealing.Le Blaireau (1)0 -
DaveyL wrote:frenchfighter wrote:Valverde is a superb rider and has provided me with much entertainment and excitement. If he is proven to be a doper fine, it wont detract from anything too much.
Really?
Very revealing.
I think the attitude seems to be: if the racing/racer is exciting, then doping is OK! He must LOVE Di Luca! :roll:0 -
With regards to Contador - there clearly was never anything proven. However - even the mere whiff of a scandal has managed to follow him to this day.
Was he so easily cleared because he was 100% innocent - or because the Spanish authorities declined to investigate fully? (I don't know the answers).
All you can really say is - he was cleared. He has never tested positive. He was/is a clean rider.
Wait - that sounds familiar.....0 -
frenchfighter wrote:andyp wrote:Whereas non-Spanish riders, such as Ullrich, Basso and Scarponi, were given bans for their involvement in Puerto.
Of course there is no suggestion whatsoever of a cover up by the Spanish authorities. Oh no, not even an inkling of one. Meanwhile their national teams excel in many, many sports.
There were nine riders in Puerto. Scarponi wasn't one. None get a ban apart from Basso who admitted to doping.
Wasn't Scarponi recognised as Zapotero?
http://www.cyclingnews.com/editions/las ... may-9-2007It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
frenchfighter wrote:
There were nine riders in Puerto. Scarponi wasn't one. None get a ban apart from Basso who admitted to doping.
What are you talking about?
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php ... may09news2
Scarponi was banned for his involvement in Puerto.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
frenchfighter wrote:
There were nine riders in Puerto. Scarponi wasn't one. None get a ban apart from Basso who admitted to doping.
What about Bella?It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
There were many more than nine! And if Scarponi was not one of the riders, how come he confessed to involvement?frenchfighter wrote:There were nine riders in Puerto. Scarponi wasn't one. None get a ban apart from Basso who admitted to doping.Yes, I am Zapatero and Il Presidente," said Italian Michele Scarponi yesterday during a two-hour hearing with Italian Olympic Committee (CONI) anti-doping prosecutor Ettore Torri. The 27 year-old rider had been linked with Doctor Eufemiano Fuentes, and yesterday confirmed his code name and other secrets. "They are nicknames that they gave to me," he confirmed, according to La Gazzetta dello Sport.0 -
Has Ullrich been banned? I know he was sacked from T-Mobile then decided to retire.
Mancebo announced his retirement, then promptly made a comeback once the dust had settled.Le Blaireau (1)0 -
Here's a list of Los Puertistos, lifted from Wikipedia:
Liberty Seguros
* Allan Davis
* Joseba Beloki
* David Etxebarría
* Isidro Nozal
* Unai Osa
* Sérgio Paulinho
* Michele Scarponi
* Marcos Serrano
* Ángel Vicioso
Comunidad Valenciana
* Vicente Ballester
* David Bernabeu
* David Blanco
* José Adrián Bonilla
* Juan Gomis
* Eladio Jiménez
* David Latasa
* Javier Pascual Rodríguez
* Rubén Plaza
AG2R Prévoyance
* Francisco Mancebo
Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears
* Constantino Zaballa
* Alejandro Valverde
Team CSC
* Ivan Basso
Phonak Hearing Systems
* José Ignacio Gutiérrez
* José Enrique Gutiérrez
* Santiago Botero
Saunier Duval-Prodir
* Carlos Zárate
* Koldo Gil
T-Mobile Team
* Óscar Sevilla - codename Sevillano.
* Jan Ullrich
Tinkoff Credit Systems
* Tyler Hamilton
* Jörg Jaksche
Unibet
* Carlos García Quesada
Retired:
* Michele Bartoli
* Ángel Casero
* Roberto Heras
* Santiago Pérez
* Marco Pantani (deceased)
All these names are linked but not everyone was convicted. Note for example that LL Sanchez and Alberto Contador's names were in documents seized showing annotations to banned substances so there could well be more. Jesus Manzano says he saw well known footballers visit Fuentes too.0 -
It surprises me how many people at the very top still manage to get caught, have these people never heard of clenbuterol or testosterone suspension?0
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Pokerface wrote:With regards to Contador - there clearly was never anything proven. However - even the mere whiff of a scandal has managed to follow him to this day.
Was he so easily cleared because he was 100% innocent - or because the Spanish authorities declined to investigate fully? (I don't know the answers).
All you can really say is - he was cleared. He has never tested positive. He was/is a clean rider.
Wait - that sounds familiar.....
What scandals? Please provide me with something solid. Also if you condem someone on 'whiffs' then there are basically a tiny amount of people you can like. Pretty sad. I love this sport and no amount of doping can stop my enjoyment.
The Spanish the UCI and the ASO cleared him. Now tell me there was a conspiracy.
I want evidence. Don't tarnish him unless you have something to back your claims. I don't deal in emptiness. Solid or nothing.
Di Luca was a quality rider. I don't like that he doped and I certainly dislike his claims of innocence but he was very exciting to watch and very stylish. This type of thing has been discussed before.Contador is the Greatest0 -
When I say Scarponi wasn't involved, I am talking about the following nine:
Ullrich, Basso, Sevilla, Mancebo, Contador, Beloki, Davis, Nozal, Jaksche.Based on review of the summary documents, nine riders from four teams were linked to the alleged doping ring orchestrated by controversial Spanish doctor Eufemiano Fuentes.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Do you think he would have been as exciting to watch if he hadn't been doping?Le Blaireau (1)0
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Why stick to those nine, how come they are named when others are not? See the list on the previous page for a more comprehensive version.frenchfighter wrote:When I say Scarponi wasn't involved, I am talking about the following nine:
Ullrich, Basso, Sevilla, Mancebo, Contador, Beloki, Davis, Nozal, Jaksche.0 -
frenchfighter wrote:Pokerface wrote:With regards to Contador - there clearly was never anything proven. However - even the mere whiff of a scandal has managed to follow him to this day.
Was he so easily cleared because he was 100% innocent - or because the Spanish authorities declined to investigate fully? (I don't know the answers).
All you can really say is - he was cleared. He has never tested positive. He was/is a clean rider.
Wait - that sounds familiar.....
What scandals? Please provide me with something solid. Also if you condem someone on 'whiffs' then there are basically a tiny amount of people you can like. Pretty sad. I love this sport and no amount of doping can stop my enjoyment.
The Spanish the UCI and the ASO cleared him. No tell me there was a conspiracy.
I want evidence. Don't tarnish him unless you have something to back your claims. I don't deal in emptiness. Solid or nothing.
Di Luca was a quality rider. I don't like that he doped and I certainly dislike his claims of innocence but he was very exciting to watch and very stylish. This type of thing has been discussed before.
You obviously aren't reading all the posts in this thread. If you want WHIFFS of scandal - see all reference to Puerto and Contador. Cleared or not - the implication was once there. That - is what is known as a WHIFF.
As for enjoying watching riders who have clearly doped (ie. Di Luca) - yes, they are fun to watch. No argument here! But if you advocate a clean and fair sport - them you can't have people like him in it. The riding might be boring, but at least it will be fair and the best man will win. Rather than the best doped.0 -
Di Luca was superficially fun but watching him riding just made me scratch my head, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. So I couldn't enjoy it as much.0
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So no one can tarnish Contador apart from this Puerto business which has been cleared?
If you still think given the facts supporting his innocence in the Puerto case that he is still involved then that is simply a grudge.
I also feel sorry for people who cannot watch a sport and get enjoyment from it. Do some of you sit there and say: I am not going to get excited because he MAY be doping. Please, this is so far removed from me.
Do I find Tommy V exciting? Yes. Is he a doper? N.
Do I find Landis Exciting? No. Is he a doper? Yes.
In summary: my excitement has nothing to do with doping.Contador is the Greatest0 -
As for why I talk about the nine:
VelonewsIn the chaotic hours before the start of the 2006 Tour de France, officials from the UCI and the Tour de France were frantically scouring a cryptic 36-page facsimile sent by Spain’s Guardia Civil that summarized evidence of one of Europe’s largest and most elaborate blood doping rings.
Officials received the fax on Thursday -- just 36 hours before some 189 riders would start the opening prologue in Strausbourg -- and were under the gun to match a series of veiled, soon-to-be-famous codenames to the Tour peloton.
The summary document – written in Spanish – included the most explosive and damning evidence confiscated in police raids in May 2006 that later became known as Operación Puerto.
The next morning, while riders were going on their final pre-Tour training rides, officials quietly approached various squads. Based on review of the summary documents, nine riders from four teams were linked to the alleged doping ring orchestrated by controversial Spanish doctor Eufemiano Fuentes.
Later that afternoon, the list of the “Puerto Nine” was released to the media.Contador is the Greatest0 -
frenchfighter wrote:
In summary: my excitement has nothing to do with doping.
And yet you post with great regularity on doping forums. C'mon, buck up, be a man, and
just say that doping does get you excited. What's the shame? You get excited about it and
let go with bunches of posts? So? What's the problem in admitting it? We all know you like it.0 -
frenchfighter wrote:
Do I find Tommy V exciting? Yes. Is he a doper? N.
Do I find Landis Exciting? No. Is he a doper? Yes.
In summary: my excitement has nothing to do with doping.
You're not really comparing like with like there.
Of the GC riders. Most of the exciting riders ended up getting busted. Most of the boring wheel suckers didn't.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Guys...actually it isn't funny anymore. Why not find someone else to gang up on? I'm sure some hapless poster in the commuting forum would suit the bill.
French Fighter likes Bertie and thinks he's clean. He doesn't think LA is....Big Deal! How he single-handedly gets the mob going EVERY TIME is beyond belief. What's more the sniping continues in other completely unrelated threads. How about sharing a little bit more love brothers?
fwiw Watching Di Luca's arse boucing off the walls on the Civilio descent into Como as he attacked to win The Giro di Lombardia is one of the most exciting bits of bike racing I have ever seen. Everyone knew he would go there and no-one could do anything about it.
One part of the thread that haven't been explored in the usual venemous Pro Race thread style is Dave_1's assertion:LA and co can blabber about 'the team" all they want, but this is an individual sport NOT a team sport
Taken at face value I think that is quite a contentious claim but who am I to be expressing an opinion here?
SWell. Certaintly...0 -
Di Luca hasn't won the Giro di Lombardia since the finish returned to Como. He won it when the finish was still in Bergamo.sudholz wrote:fwiw Watching Di Luca's ars* boucing off the walls on the Civilio descent into Como as he attacked to win The Giro di Lombardia is one of the most exciting bits of bike racing I have ever seen. Everyone knew he would go there and no-one could do anything about it.0
