240 miles in 9 hours.

SBezza

Is the feat achievable, well yes it is, is it actually possible by Shavedlegs, who knows.

I would suggest that doing a couple of 100 mile TT's and in sub 4 hours on a rolling course might be a better gauge of whether he can do it or not. I would do these worrying about average speed rather than a target HR. Once you have done a 100m TT you would probably be able to work out a pacing strategy, but the 100m TT would need to be on similar terrain as to what you expect the ride to be on.

Racing at that sort of pace for more than 4 hours is hard work, there is no doubt about that, and I doubt many good cyclist could do it for 9 hours straight. You will also need helpers with food and liquid, and hope you get good luck with traffic lights etc.

I wish you all the best, but I think you will need to be a top UK long distance TTer to actually break the record

inseine

What's the point of setting yourself a goal that you know is a cast-iron certainty? Where's the challenge?

Good luck Shaved!

Quite! It's OK for people to point out the pitfalls and give advice/ encouragement as well. The target has already been revised, possibly due to the comments, to something a little more achievable.

amaferanga

I'd really like to see Shavedlegs do this, but as yet there hasn't been much indication that it's within his capabilities.

As SBezza says, something like a 100 mile TT on comparable roads done at or above the target for the 211 miles would give a good indication of how achievable it will be.

bahzob

inseine wrote:

Actually bahzob I read the thread and like I said, good luck!
Nobody wants to pour cold water on someones dream, especially concidering his motivation but to say 23.4 mph is in the reach of any good cyclist shows a bit of nievity don't you think? It's not really in most peoples reach, not for 9hours!
Andy Wilkinson and John Woodburn are pretty special riders. remember the second place guy in the 12 last year only averaged 23.7 mph.
What he has got in his favour is the fact that it is not an out and back ride so the wind will decide the result as much as anything.

Another example of someone who is not really qualified to offer an opinion here.

What's in most people's reach is utterly irrelevant when discussing attempts of this nature. If the requirements were in most people's reach they would not be records.

Regards being nieve (sic.) of what a "good" cyclist is capable of let's just say you and I have different standards when it comes to assessing what being good really means. In the context of this topic I think its worth noting that it's mostly those who set the bar high who set and try to break records. While those who set the bar low, sadly, seem often to assume that because they are incapable of something it means they can give advice to others more able.

amaferanga

bahzob wrote:

inseine wrote:

Actually bahzob I read the thread and like I said, good luck!
Nobody wants to pour cold water on someones dream, especially concidering his motivation but to say 23.4 mph is in the reach of any good cyclist shows a bit of nievity don't you think? It's not really in most peoples reach, not for 9hours!
Andy Wilkinson and John Woodburn are pretty special riders. remember the second place guy in the 12 last year only averaged 23.7 mph.
What he has got in his favour is the fact that it is not an out and back ride so the wind will decide the result as much as anything.

Another example of someone who is not really qualified to offer an opinion here.

What's in most people's reach is utterly irrelevant when discussing attempts of this nature. If the requirements were in most people's reach they would not be records.

Regards being nieve (sic.) of what a "good" cyclist is capable of let's just say you and I have different standards when it comes to assessing what being good really means. In the context of this topic I think its worth noting that it's mostly those who set the bar high who set and try to break records. While those who set the bar low, sadly, seem often to assume that because they are incapable of something it means they can give advice to others more able.

Anyone is entitled to offer an opinion on here. Its only a f***ing internet forum....

taz3611

Is there a date set for the attempt?

inseine

Another example of someone who is not really qualified to offer an opinion here.

It's a forum for godness sake, I didn't realise you needed qualifications!
Interesting that don't know me at all yet you believe clearly that you are more qualified or you'd keep quiet too.
I actually thought I was being quite supportive, whilst offering a bit of reality.

Aggieboy

taz3611 wrote:

Is there a date set for the attempt?

1st Aug' at 5am.

http://www.justgiving.com/londontobathandback

tri-sexual

this is one serious challenge :shock:
to maintain such a high average speed on open roads cant be done (please proof me wrong), taking into account traffic, food stops, toilet breaks, mechanical problems etc, a more realistic average speed would be WELL OVER 30mph (and i mean well over) for 9 hours.
you can practice 100 mile tt's til the cows come home but will not fully prepare you for a ride of over 200 miles at the same pace. it is not just twice as hard but more like 4 times harder (or more).
you would have to be a serious pro cyclist to achieve this challenge - its not the distance but the time limit imposed. i think that the only way that such a challenge can be done successfully is if there is proper support in terms of team riders, motorcycle pace makers, teams cars, mechanics, closed roads on a "favourable" course with perfect weather conditions ie strong tailwind throughout the entire ride.
i'm sure that there will be people that can do this but it is a very serious challenge

symo

Dartmoor classic winning time last year 5hours 26 minutes for 108 miles.

Good luck

SBezza

tri-sexual wrote:

this is one serious challenge :shock:
to maintain such a high average speed on open roads cant be done (please proof me wrong), taking into account traffic, food stops, toilet breaks, mechanical problems etc, a more realistic average speed would be WELL OVER 30mph (and i mean well over) for 9 hours.
you can practice 100 mile tt's til the cows come home but will not fully prepare you for a ride of over 200 miles at the same pace. it is not just twice as hard but more like 4 times harder (or more).
you would have to be a serious pro cyclist to achieve this challenge - its not the distance but the time limit imposed. i think that the only way that such a challenge can be done successfully is if there is proper support in terms of team riders, motorcycle pace makers, teams cars, mechanics, closed roads on a "favourable" course with perfect weather conditions ie strong tailwind throughout the entire ride.
i'm sure that there will be people that can do this but it is a very serious challenge

It isn't impossible, just a very hard challenge, that the likes of Andy Wilkinson could probably do, but he is a proven long distance TTer, with a competition 12 HR record. You won't keep the same pace of a 100 for 9 hours, but you use it for a pacing strategy, this is commonly used by 12hr TTer's. My ave speed difference between a 100m TT and a 12hr TT was 2 mph, and would have been less but for stopping longer than I should have, and making a wrong turn.

To do the challenge the minimum Shavedlegs will need to achieve is about a 3:50 to 3:59 100mTT on a rolling course IMO, that is no easy challenge in itself, though 100m TT's are generally harder than a 12hr TT. The challenge is made alot harder by the fact he has to get out of London, and the low speeds that will occur due to traffic lights.

bahzob

inseine wrote:

Another example of someone who is not really qualified to offer an opinion here.

It's a forum for godness sake, I didn't realise you needed qualifications!
Interesting that don't know me at all yet you believe clearly that you are more qualified or you'd keep quiet too.
I actually thought I was being quite supportive, whilst offering a bit of reality.

Obviously you don't need qualifications to post here. You can see that from the comments of the done nothings, know nothings who contribute to threads like this. (and as for Symo.. well I give up....does he have a brain?)

Some folks have attempted feats that losers like these would not even imagine. So they know from experience that they dont need "a bit of reality" since their heads are already full of all the potential perils and pitfalls ahead. But what makes them different is that they don't use these risks as excuses to give up. They just make the challenge more interesting.

Since the subject of this area is training I'll also correct another comment above from someone (who clearly never has done either distance) that doing 100s are no use because riding 9 hours is "4 times harder or more".

This is rubbish. A 100mile TT is done at a higher intensity than a 9 hour ride and I can promise you (having done both and much longer events as well) hurts every bit as much. As a point of fact doing 100mile TTs should definitely form part of the training plan for a 9 hour ride since the zone you ride 100s in is just above the one you will need on the event itself so doing them will stress the parts of your physiology appropriate to riding long distance at fast pace. Also doing them will help ensure that nutrition and bike are working well. This would always be the case. It is even more so the case for this particular record where much of the ride will have to pretty much be at 100mile TT pace given the fact that some sections will perforce be ridden at below target pace due to traffic conditions.

In fact a good training test a month or so before the event would be to enter a 100, ride it, rest 30-60 mins then ride the same course again solo aiming to do both 100s at the same pace. This would provide an excellent indicator on how feasible or not the attempt will be plus be an excellent check on pacing. nutrition and overall bike performance.

amaferanga

bahzob wrote:

inseine wrote:

Another example of someone who is not really qualified to offer an opinion here.

It's a forum for godness sake, I didn't realise you needed qualifications!
Interesting that don't know me at all yet you believe clearly that you are more qualified or you'd keep quiet too.
I actually thought I was being quite supportive, whilst offering a bit of reality.

Obviously you don't need qualifications to post here. You can see that from the comments of the done nothings, know nothings who contribute to threads like this. (and as for Symo.. well I give up....does he have a brain?)

Some folks have attempted feats that losers like these would not even imagine. So they know from experience that they dont need "a bit of reality" since their heads are already full of all the potential perils and pitfalls ahead. But what makes them different is that they don't use these risks as excuses to give up. They just make the challenge more interesting.

Since the subject of this area is training I'll also correct another comment above from someone (who clearly never has done either distance) that doing 100s are no use because riding 9 hours is "4 times harder or more".

This is rubbish. A 100mile TT is done at a higher intensity than a 9 hour ride and I can promise you (having done both and much longer events as well) hurts every bit as much. As a point of fact doing 100mile TTs should definitely form part of the training plan for a 9 hour ride since the zone you ride 100s in is just above the one you will need on the event itself so doing them will stress the parts of your physiology appropriate to riding long distance at fast pace. Also doing them will help ensure that nutrition and bike are working well. This would always be the case. It is even more so the case for this particular record where much of the ride will have to pretty much be at 100mile TT pace given the fact that some sections will perforce be ridden at below target pace due to traffic conditions.

In fact a good training test a month or so before the event would be to enter a 100, ride it, rest 30-60 mins then ride the same course again solo aiming to do both 100s at the same pace. This would provide an excellent indicator on how feasible or not the attempt will be plus be an excellent check on pacing. nutrition and overall bike performance.

Good to see that you've thoroughly researched the background of everyone on this forum before labelling everyone know nothings and done nothings :roll:

What exactly have you done that makes your opinion so much more important than that of everyone else?

Aggieboy

Whether we think it's possible or not, why don't we forget about arguing amongst each other and hijacking the thread? Let's get behind Shavedlegs. I haven't got a clue whether he can do it or not, although it does seem immensely difficult.
All I know is, I've got the utmost respect for him even attempting it and opening himself up for a possible public flaying.

Chapeau Shavelegs, chapeau.

inseine

How about you're only allowed to comment if you give the guy some money? I guess he could care less what anyones says if we help support his charity.

bahzob

I'll reply to amaferanga then hopefully that will be end of cynics posting here pointing out the bleeding obvious.

Sadly it is true that anybody can contribute to a forum. If if they are idiots like Dennisn who cant get his head round the fact that the target is 211 miles not 270 in 9 hours, or symo who posts the results of a sportive fgs. Or tri-sexual who talks about riding 100s but seems never to have done one. Or fatboy with his very helpful comment "God on you if you do it, but I can't see you doing it unless you train every single day, give up your job and take some drugs."

I dont know why people like these make posts on a topic but they dont give any indication of having done anything challenging or having anything useful to say. And while they may be free to comment I am also free to point out they are either stupid or sad.

As to what makes me fit to comment. Well one reason I feel strongly about this is that when I started cycling I set myself the goal of doing a self supported 5000km+ 5week tour of France (following 2006 tdf route) 8 months after getting back on a bike again as an overweight 47 year old. I thank god I didnt know forums like this existed back then because had I sought advice I'd have had people like Dennisn et al telling me what I was planning to do was impossible. And because I knew much less back then I might have thought they might be right.

Regards my other qualifications to comment. Well I have trained for and ridden events very much like the challenge in hand like the tour above. So amongst other things last year, in my first seriously year time trialling, I rode a 100 at the target pace of this challenge, 3.54 and did a self supported 251 mile 12. I also was one of the top 5 brit finishers in the Etape and did the LEL in 4 days. And since I live in Newbury I know a big part of the course very well and often ride in TTs with John Woodburn (still going strong...). OK?

bahzob

On the positive side, regarding John Woodburn.

He was (and remains) a truly great rider. However its interesting to note (looking at his biography,"50 years at the top" by Keith Williams), that his PB for a 10 was set at the age of 63 and his PB for a 30 at the age of 65. And that at the same age of 65 he rode a 1:47 50 less than 2 mins slower than his lifetime PB.

I think this points to something very much in shavedlegs favour and shows the advantages that riders have got from technology, which will go someway to mitigate the effects of the the additional road clutter since then.

andrewgturnbull

bahzob wrote:

I'll reply to amaferanga then hopefully that will be end of cynics posting here pointing out the bleeding obvious.
[snip]

Hi there.

A couple of points (three actually):

- I'm not keen on the "I'm more qualified to post than you" line of thinking. If you post something on a forum, your comment should stand on it's own merits.

- The original poster has had a tendancy in the past for ambitious plans that haven't seemed to be followed through - although I may be mistaken. Off the top of my head I can remember plans to start his own bike shop, and another to start a sponsored team to ride Premier Calender events.

- Dennis has been hanging around these forums for a lonnnng time. While he make be a bit grumpy at times, and I don't always agree with his point of view - he does seem to know what he's talking about. 5000+ posts isn't a 'noob' by any definition.

Shavedlegs - I wish you luck!

Cheers, Andy

term1te

This should be a BBC 3 documentary. I hope you are keeping notes for the book.

A good training opportunity would be the Cyclo tour du Léman, a race around lake Geneva in early June I think. 180km I've done it twice and got my time down to 4.38, but it is very flat, and there are some very efficient groups going around. The roads are good and you have police outriders to see you through junctions and traffic lights. So just like London. Its the fastest Sportive I'm aware of. The winner will do it in about 4.15. Try going for two laps?

Shavedlegs

Andrew,

Just quickly.

The original poster has had a tendancy in the past for ambitious plans that haven't seemed to be followed through - although I may be mistaken. Off the top of my head I can remember plans to start his own bike shop, and another to start a sponsored team to ride Premier Calender events.

I did open a shop. Unfortunately due to a change in circumstances it had to close despite showing growth. With the shop, died the team and sponsorship ideas and my savings. All a big shame really.

I wonder if I published my training whether more people would see the seriousness with which I have thrown myself into the challenge. It is the training section of the forum after all.

Anyway in brief since December, I have been training for 4 days straight then a rest day then repeat etc. Each session has been between 21/2 and 3 hours covering between 40 and 60 miles. Often the session will include some specific training or intervals. I have also been doing either 1 hr gym work or turbo sessions during my lunch break.
Due to work and family commitments all the rides have been at night, 8pm is an early start. I haven't missed a session and survived the rain, sleet, ice and snow. I'm pleased to say the weather is getting better and I'm no longer racing the gritting lorries.
The training is now switching to more speed/power based sessions.
Do I see my family? Not much.
Do I see my friends? No.

bahzob

inseine wrote:

How about you're only allowed to comment if you give the guy some money? I guess he could care less what anyones says if we help support his charity.

An excellent idea and I've made a donation.

Shavedleg: Notwithstanding my comments above some of the below may seem obvious and uve already considered and dealt with them. Apologies if that's the case..

- You started using Dave Lloyd as a coach I believe? Are u still using him? Especial reason for asking is your mention of moving onto speed work. This means different things to different people. If its under Dave's guidance then fine.

- You say you are doing your attempt on 1st August 5.a.m. The start time is very early and I'd advise you to change it to a later one. There are a couple of reasons for this.
-- The body has a natural diurnal rhythm and for very many the time 3-5am it's at it's lowest ebb. If u start at 5 u'll have get up around 2-3 and you could well start the ride with a very tired head and not best prepared to focus. If you do start at 5 then you must do some training rides starting at that time beforehand and ideally spend the week before the ride going to bed very early and getting up around 3.am.
- There won't be much traffic around at this time of the morning. Ideally you want to ride when the roads are being used. The fastest TTs take place on busy dual carriageways and part of the reason for this is that passing cars and lorries provide a little assistance in terms reducing drag and pulling you along a bit.

- If you do start at 5.am it may be worth contacting the police that cover the start area. Given roads should be quiet then there may be a way to get a couple of motorbikes to scoot ahead and stop traffic at any lights. I know its a very long shot but if you dont ask you dont get and you may luck out and speak to someone who's a cycling fan..

- Assuming the above doesnt work the police may be able to help in terms of giving you a contact who can tell you how the traffic lights on the route work. Some may be phased so the right average speed will allow you to go without stopping. And you must know if any have sensors that require a car to pass to trigger them.

- If I was you I'd be doing a regular ride out and back on the first miles of the course starting the ride at your planned start time. The reasons for doing this are to get some sort of real idea of what your average will be over this section so you can form a pacing plan for the remainder of the event. Also you will get familiar with all the obstacles in your way and find the most efficient way through them.

- I know you have considered and rejected the idea of using a powermeter in the past. I would advise you to reconsider. If you were able to post some actual power data from your rides then those of us with experience of riding similar distances at similar speeds could give you a very good idea as to whether you are on track or not. Also
- It will be invaluable for pacing.
- Your TT riding position is compromise between comfort, power and aerodynamic efficiency. All are critical for a ride like the one you are doing but without a powermeter fine tuning these can be hit and miss. I have just finished my first season TTing and have been amazed by the effect even small changes like a cm or so of stem height have had on speed and sustained power output. *
(The offer remains to loan you a wheel with a powermeter BTW)

- Hopefully doing this already but as much as possible of your training should be in your aero position. This is partly to fine tune it as above and also because riding aero utilises muscles slightly differently from riding upright or even on the drops.

- My first 100m TT was a nightmare because of my saddle. While I could happily ride 12hours on a road bike, 4 hours in an aero position knackered my gonads. If you get the same I'd advise trying out an Adamo saddle. It worked for me and is the main reason I knocked 15 minutes off my second 100.


* To anticipate some comments..I know that many fine riders in the past, John Woodburn included managed without powermeters. However these riders often did embrace the latest technology of their day and try to use it to best advantage, e.g. John Woodburn and Moulton bikes. I think it is the case that most every top TT rider now uses a powermeter for some aspect of their training.

itboffin

Good luck SL you CAN do it, when you're tired when you're body has had enough just think of those you love, just think of why you chose to do this.

It's only one more bike ride, nothing it the big scheme of things.

S

Percy Vera

bahzob wrote:

- You started using Dave Lloyd as a coach I believe? Are u still using him? Especial reason for asking is your mention of moving onto speed work. This means different things to different people. If its under Dave's guidance then fine.

I was under the impression he is using Sports Coaching as per his website

Pokerface

Are people allowed to come along and ride in front of you? Pace you and give you shelter? Get enough people to do that and you've got it made!

cougie

Inseine- it is an out and back record - london to bath and back ?

How many traffic lights are there on this stretch ?

If you factor in stopping for one minute per hour - and thats probably optimistic - then you'll need to do about 24.5 mph for a 9 hour ride.

If you go by the autostop function that the cateye comps have - you'd only need to achieve something like 23.4 mph. Thats a big difference and takes out the lights to an extent - as you cant control them.

desweller

Pokerface wrote:

Are people allowed to come along and ride in front of you? Pace you and give you shelter? Get enough people to do that and you've got it made!

I sense a man who wants to help out!

I'd love to, but my low low speed would mean I'd be limited to one of those layby types wi' food, drink etc...if you're still recruiting supporters!

I think this is an awesome challenge to take on, chapeau and best of luck with the training.

blackhands

Pokerface wrote:

Are people allowed to come along and ride in front of you? Pace you and give you shelter? Get enough people to do that and you've got it made!

The RRA Rules are very clear:

[i]Unpaced Condition
10.01. Only unpaced records shall be recognised.

Definition of unpaced riding
10.02. A rider attempting a record shall ride entirely alone and unassisted. He must not ride in company with, nor take shelter from any other rider nor from any vehicle. He shall not be preceded within sight, accompanied or followed or passed (except as permitted by Rules 10.04 and 10.05) nor must he accept food or drink or any other article, except from persons on foot. A helper in or on a moving vehicle shall not give the riders generally audible instructions, information, assistance or encouragement.

Procedure when Dismounted
10.03. In any attempt on record the rider or riders when dismounted shall wheel or carry his or their machine without assistance whilst covering any forward portion of the route.

Following
10.04. Record aspirants may arrange to be followed by one or more vehicles, each carrying an Official Observer in order to provide evidence for the proof of the validity of a claim to a record, in accordance with the provisions of Rule 10.08.
Such vehicles shall prominently display at front and rear the RRA symbol which shall have a minimum height of 80mm. A sign shall be displayed, clearly visible from behind such vehicles, which may be either the warning signs issued by the Association or one with black letters of a minimum height of 80mm on a yellow or red fluorescent background including the words "WARNING CYCLIST AHEAD", its construction and positioning to be approved by the Official Observer(s) for the attempt. Vehicles shall not follow the record aspirants at a distance of less than 50 yards, unless forced to do so by traffic conditions.
For any part of a route used for a record attempt, if the officially designated path for cyclists cannot be used by following motor vehicles, the record aspirants may be followed by one or more cyclists, who must remain at a distance of not less than 50 yards, unless the aspirants are stationary or dismounted. Only when such cyclist followers are dismounted may they provide food, drink, assistance or encouragement to the aspirants. Cyclists who follow in these circumstances shall make a report of their actions and observations.[/i]

blackhands

chaffordred wrote:

[
Back in 1981 the doubters of John Woodburn probably said similar things to him, yet he did it with none of the technology we have today.

I can remember this well - at the time Woodburn was the Competition Record holder for 12hours - ie he had proven ability.

Pokerface

blackhands wrote:

Pokerface wrote:

Are people allowed to come along and ride in front of you? Pace you and give you shelter? Get enough people to do that and you've got it made!

The RRA Rules are very clear:

[i]Unpaced Condition
10.01. Only unpaced records shall be recognised.

Definition of unpaced riding
10.02. A rider attempting a record shall ride entirely alone and unassisted. He must not ride in company with, nor take shelter from any other rider nor from any vehicle. He shall not be preceded within sight, accompanied or followed or passed (except as permitted by Rules 10.04 and 10.05) nor must he accept food or drink or any other article, except from persons on foot. A helper in or on a moving vehicle shall not give the riders generally audible instructions, information, assistance or encouragement.

Procedure when Dismounted
10.03. In any attempt on record the rider or riders when dismounted shall wheel or carry his or their machine without assistance whilst covering any forward portion of the route.

Following
10.04. Record aspirants may arrange to be followed by one or more vehicles, each carrying an Official Observer in order to provide evidence for the proof of the validity of a claim to a record, in accordance with the provisions of Rule 10.08.
Such vehicles shall prominently display at front and rear the RRA symbol which shall have a minimum height of 80mm. A sign shall be displayed, clearly visible from behind such vehicles, which may be either the warning signs issued by the Association or one with black letters of a minimum height of 80mm on a yellow or red fluorescent background including the words "WARNING CYCLIST AHEAD", its construction and positioning to be approved by the Official Observer(s) for the attempt. Vehicles shall not follow the record aspirants at a distance of less than 50 yards, unless forced to do so by traffic conditions.
For any part of a route used for a record attempt, if the officially designated path for cyclists cannot be used by following motor vehicles, the record aspirants may be followed by one or more cyclists, who must remain at a distance of not less than 50 yards, unless the aspirants are stationary or dismounted. Only when such cyclist followers are dismounted may they provide food, drink, assistance or encouragement to the aspirants. Cyclists who follow in these circumstances shall make a report of their actions and observations.[/i]

Ah yes - but is this a record attempt or just a bet/fundraising enterprise? What's more important - to set a record or achieve the goal?

blackhands

Well, I was under the impression that he wanted to break the RRA record as stated on his blog:

"In 1981 John Woodburn set the Road Records Association Record for London to Bath and back. He covered the 211 miles in just 9 hours, 3 minutes and 7 seconds. A time so formidable that it has stood for over 28 years unchallenged. This my training blog as I attempt the break the record."