Its Sept 1st. Lets play musical chairs.

RichN95.

In Yates's favour though are: he's got more DS experience than everyone else in Britain put together and he's worked with Scott Sunderland before.

Obviously there are the negatives of the Bruyneel connection and questionable health.

blazing_saddles

More.
Steven de Jongh to Team Sky as a DS.

deejay

RichN95 wrote:

In Yates's favour though are: he's got more DS experience than everyone else in Britain put together and he's worked with Scott Sunderland before.

Obviously there are the negatives of the Bruyneel connection and questionable health.

He was the DS when Savoldelli won the Giro. !!
My hearing isn't good but I've never had a problem chatting with him.
A home boy for a home team so what's the Problem. Will anything satisfy you people besides women.
yes I was a fanboy. :roll: and I can't think of one great mountain descender I don't like.

all show no go

Blazing Saddles wrote:

More.
Steven de Jongh to Team Sky as a DS.

Is this the same Steven de Jongh that was part of the TVM team that withdrew from the 1998 TDF in the wake of the Festina debacle?

teagar

all show no go wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

More.
Steven de Jongh to Team Sky as a DS.

Is this the same Steven de Jongh that was part of the TVM team that withdrew from the 1998 TDF in the wake of the Festina debacle?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_de_Jongh

He was a good solid domestique, especially in the northern classics. No need to tar him too much. Seems a pretty decent bloke. Gave plenty of good interviews to NOS.

RichN95.

all show no go wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

More.
Steven de Jongh to Team Sky as a DS.

Is this the same Steven de Jongh that was part of the TVM team that withdrew from the 1998 TDF in the wake of the Festina debacle?

There isn't a rider in the peleton, 90s or now, that you can't link to doping by more than a couple degrees of separation if you really want to muck rake.

He was a 24 year old with one win to his name - hardly in a position to rock the boat even if he was clean.

andyp

The point that many people are trying to make is that Brailsford was very clear in media interviews that he wouldn't be hiring people with connections to doping;

"The problem is that people come into professional cycling and compromise," Brailsford said. "We can't compromise." He has written a recruitment strategy for the team which states that no one with a previous doping violation will be hired. That narrows the field. Take hiring road managers – directeurs sportifs – who supervise the team when it races, deciding strategy and trouble-shooting. Virtually all the candidates will be former pros but a good many have previous, be it a cold cure that just happened to be on the list.

Taken from here;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/20 ... brailsford

By hiring Sunderland and Yates he appears to have said one thing and done another.

calvjones

No doping violations so within the letter of what he said if hardly the spirit.


I actually wonder how much he knew about road cycling when he started all this?

kickerbri

Reading the latest Cycling Weekly it appears that Ben Swift has said he will honour his contract with Katusha for next season, so that’s another British rider off the list. They also state that Garmin will only release Bradley Wiggins if they can get Alberto Contador and with recent news of new sponsors and riders to Astana that now looks highly unlinkely.

The only incoming news they add is that Michael Barry should sign and also Ed Clancy. Which to me leaves two questions.

1. Without Bradley Wiggins they lack a genuine top 10 rider for any Grand Tour let alone Le Tour. Is there anyone out there still available? Kreuziger, Pellizotti?
2. As well as a genuine contender they also lack a real top level sprinter. As such from the team they currently have and even with the rumoured incoming riders, do they even look worthy of a place at Le Tour?

I must personally admit that after all the fanfare I am rather underwhelmed by their current speculated line up.

iainf72

kickerbri wrote:

1. Without Bradley Wiggins they lack a genuine top 10 rider for any Grand Tour let alone Le Tour. Is there anyone out there still available? Kreuziger, Pellizotti?
2. As well as a genuine contender they also lack a real top level sprinter. As such from the team they currently have and even with the rumoured incoming riders, do they even look worthy of a place at Le Tour?

1) There's no one available they would hire I suspect. I'm amazed at how none of the Italians linked to the squad have appeared. They've hied that Spanish fellow who is good in GT's but he strikes me more as a mountain helper than anything else
2) I'm critical of the team but they're certainly a lot better than some of the teams who ride the Tour.

IMO, there has been too much fanfare. Why not start pro-conti, hire some good riders and British talent, run a professional shop for 1 or 2 years, pick up some victories and go from there. A-la BMC for example.

Superoo

andyp wrote:

The point that many people are trying to make is that Brailsford was very clear in media interviews that he wouldn't be hiring people with connections to doping;

By hiring Sunderland and Yates he appears to have said one thing and done another.

You can't help yourself, can you andyp?! You come across as an envious person. Making insinuations where there shouldn't be any made. Are you aware your posts could be seen as defamation? What have these guys ever done to you to deserve this?? :?:

edhornby

kickerbri wrote:

1. Without Bradley Wiggins they lack a genuine top 10 rider for any Grand Tour let alone Le Tour. Is there anyone out there still available? Kreuziger, Pellizotti?
2. As well as a genuine contender they also lack a real top level sprinter. As such from the team they currently have and even with the rumoured incoming riders, do they even look worthy of a place at Le Tour?

I must personally admit that after all the fanfare I am rather underwhelmed by their current speculated line up.

I'd say he'll have a plan for developing a sprinter in house out of the existing roster , he's done it before with Cavendish... maybe EBH to have a punt at the Green jersey? I know that he'll be up against some quality riders but Thor showed that it's not just about the first one to the end of the boulevard

remember that Dave B has a long term plan so you can't really expect them to drag Wiggins out of his contract and have a load of strong domestiques to win him a tour straight off. Wiggins would be best to stick to the current formula that's working for him

you know who's to blame for the fanfare? it's all us british cycling fans, we want a team of our own and we're excited. we just can't help ourselves, and I'm happily tarring myself with this brush too...

sorry bri the above sounds a bit ranty, I'm not having a pop, just looking forward to next year

The Prodigy

edhornby wrote:

... maybe EBH to have a punt at the Green jersey? I know that he'll be up against some quality riders but Thor showed that it's not just about the first one to the end of the boulevard

Good shout, could be in the points everyday, probably strong enough to fight out most of the intermediates and is well capable of disappearing up the road like Thor did on one stage this year.

iainf72

Superoo wrote:

You can't help yourself, can you andyp?! You come across as an envious person. Making insinuations where there shouldn't be any made. Are you aware your posts could be seen as defamation? What have these guys ever done to you to deserve this?? :?:

What is your connection to the team? You seem to get very very defensive about them so you must have some skin in game?

Andy's point, and what many have echoed is that the management of the team have all worked on teams which had doping problems. Now while you may think it was possible to work on the team and know nothing people like Jorg Jackshe have indicated Basso and him weren't isolated black sheep at CSC.

Superoo

Administrator guidelines on defamatory posts:
"a post will be defamatory if it contains a statement which is untrue and which might cause damage or prejudice to another person's reputation. Because it is published in writing it is called a "Libel".

For a statement to be considered as being true, it must have been accepted as true in a competent court or tribunal or admitted by the person who is the subject of the statement.

Defamatory statements about cyclists are particularly serious as Future's magazines and websites are fairly prominent in the cycling world and are therefore likely to carry influence.

If you post material about doping or other cheating, please do not make allegations in your post. Please do not quote allegations from other sources. Every repetition of a libel is itself a fresh libel.

Posting a link to another source which might contain a defamatory statement is just about acceptable as long as you don't indicate an approval of the statement in your post.

A defamatory statement is only actionable if it is made about an identifiable individual or class of individual. This means that a statement made about a whole team could be actionable by each of the individual members of the team.

Defamatory statements about dead people are not actionable so where a cyclist has drugged himself to death then go ahead and say what you want.

Please understand that dealing with even the threat of a legal action is costly and disruptive. This means that you may feel that moderator action is sometimes over-cautious.

iainf72

That's all fine Superoo and we're all perfectly aware

So, in your world David Millar is a villian but people involved in dubious teams in the past are beyond reproach?

http://twitter.com/lionelbirnie/status/4553179179

It's not just crazies on forums you know

blazing_saddles

You sound like Lance Armstrong's litigating legal eagle, quoting rules that don't apply to this post.
If you think andy's post is defamatory, you obviously haven't read many of the threads here, or indeed many of the other cycling forums.
What specific allegation has been made? None.

LB has made a far more direct "observation".

Get over yourself, because your ride will only get rougher.
Comes with the territory, thanks to the sport's history.
That's why a person's past associations will often draw specultion.

dave_1

Timoid. wrote:

Aside from his dubious associations, he's an idiot.

What is Sky doing?

uncalled for abuse of Yates IMO. Yates dedicated himself to helping others win, does gardening to keep himself going by the looks of it, has had heart problems, is clearly not rich and doing well off his career in the way others have. Contrast him with say Hincapie who's got rich off being a domestique

moray_gub

iainf72 wrote:

That's all fine Superoo and we're all perfectly aware

So, in your world David Millar is a villian but people involved in dubious teams in the past are beyond reproach?

http://twitter.com/lionelbirnie/status/4553179179

It's not just crazies on forums you know

So its crazies on forums then and a decidedly 2nd rate hack...........pretty much and such id say.

moray_gub

Dave_1 wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

Aside from his dubious associations, he's an idiot.

What is Sky doing?

uncalled for abuse of Yates IMO. Yates dedicated himself to helping others win, does gardening to keep himself going by the looks of it, has had heart problems, is clearly not rich and doing well off his career in the way others have. Contrast him with say Hincapie who's got rich off being a domestique

I agree he doesnt strike me as being an idiot indeed he is anything but imo ,ok he is not photgenic and maybe you cant make him out as easily others but then so what ! He always talks sense when i hear him .As for dubious associations then i suppose that rules out 99% of the pro peleton . Some of you lot really need to get a grip

blazing_saddles

Moray Gub wrote:

So its crazies on forums then and a decidedly 2nd rate hack...........pretty much and such id say.

Is there such a thing as a first rate hack reporting on cycling?
I suspect there may be one or two in the "heavies", but they only get to write the odd piece.

I take it you see yourself more as the asylum director, rather than one of the forum inmates.

andyp

Moray Gub wrote:

As for dubious associations then i suppose that rules out 99% of the pro peloton . Some of you lot really need to get a grip

Indeed it does, yet Dave Brailsford made a statement, which I linked to a page or two back, that said they'd refrain from hiring anyone with a dubious background. Clearly that's a difficult position to hold given recent history in pro cycling, but by hiring ex-directeur sportifs from CSC and USPS/Discovery/Astana Brailsford has shown that his principles last a matter of weeks. That's the point I was making. Brailsford is left looking very naive in my opinion.

BdeB

It was a bold statement by DB and one that i am sure he knows might come back and haunt him. Therefore maybe he knows more about these 'dubious pasts' than simple what is speculated about. Maybe he has more information and is able to hire without feeling he is compromising his strong statment. Maybe the tar is being spread too far by the same brush.

afx237vi

Wow, it's interesting to see that several of my posts have disappeared from this thread, despite the fact I haven't insulted anyone or libelled anyone.

Maybe I was closer to the bullseye than I first (jokingly) thought?!

calvjones

afx237vi wrote:

Wow, it's interesting to see that several of my posts have disappeared from this thread, despite the fact I haven't insulted anyone or libelled anyone.

Maybe I was closer to the bullseye than I first (jokingly) thought?!

Can you paraphrase them (in a non-libelous way)?

calvjones

Meanwhile...

With former Festina manager Yvon Sanquer lined up as the successor to Johan Bruyneel as team boss and Marco Pantani's former directeur sportif Giuseppe Martinelli set to take on the same role at Astana, talk has started about possible rider signings. Fuji's David De La Fuente is being heavily linked with a move to the team, while Spanish daily AS claims Spanish road champion Rubén Plaza and Ceramica Flaminia's Giampaolo Caruso are in Astana's sights. The team is also reported to have a new sponsor in Samruk Kazyna, the Kazakh national welfare fund

Wrong on so many levels.

afx237vi

calvjones wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

Wow, it's interesting to see that several of my posts have disappeared from this thread, despite the fact I haven't insulted anyone or libelled anyone.

Maybe I was closer to the bullseye than I first (jokingly) thought?!

Can you paraphrase them (in a non-libelous way)?

Sent you a PM. I don't want to be banned and be forced to come back as BikingAfx.

iainf72

afx237vi wrote:

Sent you a PM. I don't want to be banned and be forced to come back as BikingAfx.

Wouldn't you need to switch to bikingAphex? Or perhaps even BikingPolygon?

afx237vi

iainf72 wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

Sent you a PM. I don't want to be banned and be forced to come back as BikingAfx.

Wouldn't you need to switch to bikingAphex? Or perhaps even BikingPolygon?

Hmm, BikingCausticwindow, JUST SO NO-ONE WOULD GUESS IT'S ME. Cunning. I like it.

iainf72

afx237vi wrote:

Hmm, BikingCausticwindow, JUST SO NO-ONE WOULD GUESS IT'S ME. Cunning. I like it.

BikingDiceman would be even more obscure!

I'd know though. Although someone would be sure to tell me I know nothing.