Lance in Glasgow
Comments
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Yes, chemo is not in any way 'performance enhancing', which is why it is so ridiculous that so may have tried to argue that nearly dying from cancer transformed Armstrong from a Tour also-ran into a multiple 'winner'. And despite your claims, 'French journalists' have not claimed that 'Lance' 'was given some magical potion to make him unbeatable during his time out'. Rather it has been scientifically proven that his doping happened during his comeback - which, for example, is why his body was charged to the gills with Epo in the 1999 Tour.paulcuthbert wrote:What I am talking about is French journalists believing that Lance was given some magical potion to make him unbeatable during his time out. That simply isn't true. Chemotherapy is lethal. If it doesn't kill the cancer cells, it kills you! That, in my mind and I'm sure in anyone with a bit of common sense's mind, is NOT performance-enhancing.
God, you haven't a clue, have you? Failing to test positive means nothing. Just look at all the riders who have admitted doping to the gills and never tested positive. The methods of avoiding a positive test are legion. Epo is undetectable after 2-3 days, or 12-16 hours if micro dosing is used. Urine substitution still goes on. In fact there were questions raised about the samples provided by USP riders, including Armstrong, as they were suspiciously clear for riders who had just finished a mountain stage of the Tour. Jesus Manzano reported that, in common with the doctor at Kelme, the doctor at USP /Disco was a good friend of the doctor who ran the haematology lab that was used to take blood samples for the UCI, and used to tip the team off when a tester was coming, etc. etc. Perhaps most of all right through the Armstrong era autologous blood doping was undetectable.paulcuthbert wrote:You talk about evidence. If there's so much evidence against Lance, why has he not been banned- or even tested positive?
What's more it is clear that the UCI was determined to protect Armstrong, the 'saviour' of cycling after the Festina scandal and their icon of global cycling, even going so far as to accept a pre-dated TUE when Armstrong tested positive for corticoids (despite Armstrong publicly stating he had no such TUE only days earlier) and then commissioning that notorious hatchet job on the LNDD when Armstrong’s 'positives' for Epo came up.
One, Wiggins didn’t win, beating a bunch of people like Basso and Ullrich where were benefitting from the huge advantages to be had from the use of Epo and blood doping in the process. Then again perhaps all the GC contenders in this years Tour were still up to the same old tricks, and people simply don’t want to think that Wiggins could possibly be up to the same game as he is British.paulcuthbert wrote:It's not unheard of for riders to go from being relatively obscure and finishing (and in some cases not finishing) the Tour well behind the winner, only to come back a year or a few years later and improving greatly *cough* Bradley Wiggins *cough cough*
They are not 'my' doubts, I am simply repeating the view of people who know far more than me (and you...) on the subject.* As I said 'Faith is blind'.paulcuthbert wrote:I don't tend to believe in any of your doubts. Sorry!
* "So there is no doubt in my mind he (Lance Armstrong) took EPO during the '99 Tour."
http://nyvelocity.com/content/interview ... l-ashenden
UCI experts do not believe in Armstrong
It may be that Lance Armstrong never officially tested positive, but according to Robin Paris Otto, one of UCI's anti-doping experts and the man who in 2000 developed the first analytical method for the detection of EPO, there is evidence that the opposite is true.
...He adds that the results which showed that the American was doped in1999 must be considered to be valid from a scientific point of view . "The methods used were valid. It is clear that the question mark concerning whether Armstrong was doped really is more of a legal than scientific nature. So there is scientific evidence that he was doped in1999 and that he took epo. To deny it would be to lie. "
http://www.feltet.dk/index.php?id_paren ... yhed=171280 -
Glad to see someone accepts this...thamacdaddy wrote:
Of course he is doing it for PR...BikingBernie wrote:A question. Do you think that the media-savvy Mr. Armstrong was unaware of the interest and positive PR that this stunt would generate?0 -
BikingBernie wrote:
Glad to see someone accepts this...thamacdaddy wrote:
Of course he is doing it for PR...BikingBernie wrote:A question. Do you think that the media-savvy Mr. Armstrong was unaware of the interest and positive PR that this stunt would generate?
I think everyone does. It's only the bitter that concentrate on that rather than the amazing opportunity it gave people though.0 -
Doubtless, in your book those who are critical of the celebrity culture surrounding publications like 'Hello' magazine are also 'bitter' for failing to focus on the 'amazing opportunity' such magazines give to allow people see inside the homes of 'celebrities'.Roscobob wrote:
I think everyone does. It's only the bitter that concentrate on that rather than the amazing opportunity it gave people though.BikingBernie wrote:
Glad to see someone accepts this...thamacdaddy wrote:
Of course he is doing it for PR...BikingBernie wrote:A question. Do you think that the media-savvy Mr. Armstrong was unaware of the interest and positive PR that this stunt would generate?
I am still waiting for someone to explain why it was such an 'amazing' experience to ride on the same road as Armstrong, even for a couple of miles until they were dropped. To me it smacks of the sort of vacuous hero-worship one might expect from an autograph-collecting schoolboy football fan.0 -
BikingBernie wrote:
I am still waiting for someone to explain why it was such an 'amazing' experience to ride on the same road as Armstrong, even for a couple of miles until they were dropped. To me it smacks of the sort of vacuous hero-worship one might expect from an autograph-collecting schoolboy football fan.
Why on earth would anyone waste their breath explaining anything related to Armstrong to you? We all know what the response would be. :roll:0 -
BikingBernie wrote:As to 'not being a legend'. So what? I am already so happy with my life that becoming 'a legend' would add nothing of any real value to it, nor is my self-esteem in need of a boost.
And yet - you spend countless hours on an internet forum debating the merits of going riding with a pro cyclist, instead of actually out riding your bike. Or doing something....well doing ANYTHING else really.
If that's what you call a "full life", I'll take my low self-esteem and a bike ride any day!0 -
Forget the Armstrong angle. I would just like to know what is so great about being in the vicinity of a 'celebrity'....andyp wrote:Why on earth would anyone waste their breath explaining anything related to Armstrong to you? We all know what the response would be.0 -
Their Back
Thanks for the post Tenkfeet sounded like a nice ride.______________________________________________
My Photo\'s
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In the few days since I last posted on here I have spent a full day mountain walking in the Alps with my wife, went kayaking after work for a couple of hours and have been out on my bike around my local Alpine cols for 4 hours. Tomorrow it's a day swimming, paddling and sunbathing with the family, and on Sunday a ride which will finish off by going over the Joux Plane!Pokerface wrote:you spend countless hours on an internet forum debating the merits of going riding with a pro cyclist, instead of actually out riding your bike. Or doing something....well doing ANYTHING else really. If that's what you call a "full life", I'll take my low self-esteem and a bike ride any day!0 -
Ok, so LA turns up 30 miles from my door and rides with a group of a couple of hundred normal punters...he expected a dozen or so but because of who he is, guys know its there one chance to ride with a Legend...what a humbling experience that must have been....and what a real display of pure class from LA....whether you like him or not you just have to admire that!
Now fact...LA is the biggest name cycling has ever seen...although I think Eddy was the ultimate...he is not nearly as famous or well known as LA...and thats fact....LA's story is unique...and he is known globally...even to the common housewife...now like it or not thats the deal....all this just adds to the fact that he turned up and rides with a bunch of local lads....I'm really happy that some local guys managed a few miles with him...such an honour...
But lets talk about how this thread has again been hijacked.....by the extreme anti-LA guys...now these guys know what will be getting said here so why did they have to put the knife in?....and kill the enthusiasm that LA provoked...why did they have to try and kill a very positive thread?....not only that they have started pelting into 'newer' forum members....now, for me....these are the dregs off this forum....
Heres a recent passage I wrote from a previous Thread:-
Let me tell you something Aurelio....I used to keep a wee eye on the Pro Cycling scene here when it was a good source..(although watching Cycling and keeping upto date with Procycling is not my thing....I'd much rather go out cycling and see nice scenery)....but guys like you have completely put me off coming near here...I just get dismayed...and although LA seems to be the No.1 target for the hostilities the whole 'feel' of this forum section is now ugly,angry and spiteful.... and to me thats a real shame...as I bet theres tons of guys...who could provide excellent info...but won't because of the bitterness here?0 -
Pokerface wrote:BikingBernie wrote:As to 'not being a legend'. So what? I am already so happy with my life that becoming 'a legend' would add nothing of any real value to it, nor is my self-esteem in need of a boost.
And yet - you spend countless hours on an internet forum debating the merits of going riding with a pro cyclist, instead of actually out riding your bike. Or doing something....well doing ANYTHING else really.
If that's what you call a "full life", I'll take my low self-esteem and a bike ride any day!
I dislike people making judgements about people on internet forums as you really have no idea about them.
The last time someone made a judgement about another member, it turned out that member was unable to ride due to a disability. Incidentally he is a knowledgable member and a true fan.
For all you know, BB could be a Cat2 racer. For all we know you could weigh 100kg and go backwards going up a 4% slope.
Why come on here and make a comment about BB...is it because you cannot debate the points he is making so need to divert the issue at hand.Contador is the Greatest0 -
YES, you are correct and your post is a good one and you taught me something.paulcuthbert wrote:Hold up... you go on about growing up. Wasn't Lance competing in, and winning, major Triathlon races in the US before he was 18- beating competitors twice his age and with so much more experience? Didn't Chris Carmichael and Jim Ochowitz spot the talent in him and snap him up in his late teens/early twenties? Wasn't he the youngest World Champion at the age of 21 in 1993? Wasn't he one of the youngest stage winners at the Tour in 1993?
That now you are a grown man, you still have Inspiration from what you saw.
I didn't realise that someone could use him for inspiration for their own progress, so good luck.
Ochowitz built him up so much on his arrival and is probably the reason he became so bigheaded and disliked, because he believed their Hype.
Then we realised he was so arrogant as well.
One of my Treasured Highlights, that one.paulcuthbert wrote:I actually do remember Lance before the Casartelli thing. I only remembered about Casartelli recently when I read his book. I remember him being beaten in a cat and mouse sprint (can't remember where or the year) by that Ukranian cyclist.. Uchikov? Or something... I just remember Phil Ligget's commentary being funny, because as a kid you find stupid stuff like "ooo-chee-cough" funny. And it stood out. Uchikov was funny looking to me, whereas Lance looked normal. And I liked that. But I really wanted Lance to win, and I remember feeling sorry for him when I saw him interviewed post-race. I liked his attitude- and you learn from stuff like that as an impressionable 7, 8 or 9 year old. So I guess I am a Lance fan pre-Casartelli's death.
1995 Stage 13 and Outschakov (Ukraine) out sprints the bighead Texan.
I was travelling from the TDF and had the highlight programe that evening.
I thoroughly enjoyed that Interview with him being gutted as he said "doh I didn't know he was that good" as his arrogance showed through.
There has to be a Link there for him to only be able to perform in Europe for 7/8 weeks.paulcuthbert wrote:You cannot say that Lance did not have talent before his cancer therapy. That is a very blind and naive viewpoint- and I think you need to get off your high horse about it. You've been fed that and you're regurgitating it as ammunition. Yes, Lance had to have Epogen in his therapy. But in cancer treatments (which as a pretty well read kid, I know a lot about) Epogen is essential to keep the depleated red blood cell counts up. It is most commonly used in renal cancer cases, but is common in a lot of different cancer therapies. It would not stay long enough in his system to enhance his performance-
7 wins, 7 years, and 7 weeks. Very odd that. (but then you covered that point)
I cannot deny them but they do seem to be so False and everything being Programed.paulcuthbert wrote:I hold my hands up- Lance probably isn't the greatest cyclist "of all time". I never said he was. But there is no denying that he is the greatest Tour de France champion of all time. No one else has won 7 on the trot, and it isn't very likely that anyone else will in my lifetime. So of course I can revel in this triumph, It's a stupid thing to try to do, so don't try to deny Lance his dues.
NO, he was a terrible Time Trialist. (sort the U tube clip with Indurain leaving him for dead) and I understood he was good at running/swimming but just about held on with the bike.paulcuthbert wrote:And another thing to note- Lance killed everyone in the TT at the Tour du Pont in 1996, so you can't say he was an "overnight success" on the TT bike. For God's sake, he was a Triathlete! If he couldn't ride fast in a TT in the Triathlon he wouldn't have gotten into BIKE RACING in the first place.
Tour du Pont 1993 and the last stage Individual TT.
GC leader Raul Alcala (mexico) catches the 2nd GC rider (a Texan) and leaves him behind.
Alcala then punctures (+wheel problems) and the Texan goes by (hopefully to win the race) and Alcala catches and drops him again to increase his winning margin.
Good Luck with your studies and we will have different armstrong opinions, but I can see that it is not just Blind Faith.paulcuthbert wrote:I can see your point- and I can see why it's easy to believe the doping rumours that have dogged him. But what I can't see, is why no one believes that he has gotten to where he is with hard work (and perhaps a bit of luck). And I don't think anything you can say will make me doubt my inspiration.
You may have noticed that I cannot see any difference between Pharmstrong and Riis. :roll:Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
frenchfighter wrote:Pokerface wrote:BikingBernie wrote:As to 'not being a legend'. So what? I am already so happy with my life that becoming 'a legend' would add nothing of any real value to it, nor is my self-esteem in need of a boost.
And yet - you spend countless hours on an internet forum debating the merits of going riding with a pro cyclist, instead of actually out riding your bike. Or doing something....well doing ANYTHING else really.
If that's what you call a "full life", I'll take my low self-esteem and a bike ride any day!
I dislike people making judgements about people on internet forums as you really have no idea about them.
The last time someone made a judgement about another member, it turned out that member was unable to ride due to a disability. Incidentally he is a knowledgable member and a true fan.
For all you know, BB could be a Cat2 racer. For all we know you could weigh 100kg and go backwards going up a 4% slope.
Why come on here and make a comment about BB...is it because you cannot debate the points he is making so need to divert the issue at hand.
Why make a comment about BB (aurelio)?..I'll tell you why...because the man is insanely obsessed with LA....and his entire life on this forum has been directed towards destroying LA's credibility...thats why?....I think the guys deranged...
But I've also witnessed the rise of another muppet :roll:
Why not leave this forum thread to the guys who found inspiration from his Glasgow visit, without trying to kill it with the bitterness.....
Stick with Contador.0 -
As I have already said, if you are unhappy with people breaking illusions held by some people, post on the thread in the Cake Stop forum. I haven't posted on that and I wont as that isn't the place for my comments. This is the Pro Race forum and I posted on this thread as this is the place for my comments.Contador is the Greatest0
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BikingBernie wrote:
Forget the Armstrong angle. I would just like to know what is so great about being in the vicinity of a 'celebrity'....andyp wrote:Why on earth would anyone waste their breath explaining anything related to Armstrong to you? We all know what the response would be.
Oh my god. The sun will NOT rise tomorrow. Matter - antimatter have collided. I agree
with BikingBernie's "what's so great. Now, my wife is a different story. "Oh, look over there, isn't that..........I'm going to talk to him / her". Although in a way I guess that shows
that she's not all that overwhelmed by being near "one".0 -
frenchfighter wrote:I have to just say one thing.
This thread is on a pro-race forum so other aspects of Lance will be discussed. If you are not happy with that then you Lance's Lions can contribute to the same thread in the Cake Stop forum. Why you didn't post your fawning comments there in the first place is beyond me and suggests you are trying to seek attention from the Pro Race regulars.
Here we go:
http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12644209
whats with this pro race regulars thing ? is thats some sort of exclusive higher being club ......................can i join ? go on please.....................Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
DaveyL wrote:frenchfighter wrote:I have to just say one thing.
This thread is on a pro-race forum so other aspects of Lance will be discussed. If you are not happy with that then you Lance's Lions can contribute to the same thread in the Cake Stop forum. Why you didn't post your fawning comments there in the first place is beyond me and suggests you are trying to seek attention from the Pro Race regulars.
Here we go:
http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12644209
I thoguht you weren't coming back to this thread?
Is there a "fawning over Bertie" thread in Cake Stop that we can pack you off to?
you sure its just fawning ?Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
RICHYBOYcp wrote:Ok, so LA turns up 30 miles from my door and rides with a group of a couple of hundred normal punters...he expected a dozen or so but because of who he is, guys know its there one chance to ride with a Legend...what a humbling experience that must have been....and what a real display of pure class from LA....whether you like him or not you just have to admire that!
Now fact...LA is the biggest name cycling has ever seen...although I think Eddy was the ultimate...he is not nearly as famous or well known as LA...and thats fact....LA's story is unique...and he is known globally...even to the common housewife...now like it or not thats the deal....all this just adds to the fact that he turned up and rides with a bunch of local lads....I'm really happy that some local guys managed a few miles with him...such an honour...
But lets talk about how this thread has again been hijacked.....by the extreme anti-LA guys...now these guys know what will be getting said here so why did they have to put the knife in?....and kill the enthusiasm that LA provoked...why did they have to try and kill a very positive thread?....not only that they have started pelting into 'newer' forum members....now, for me....these are the dregs off this forum....
Heres a recent passage I wrote from a previous Thread:-
Let me tell you something Aurelio....I used to keep a wee eye on the Pro Cycling scene here when it was a good source..(although watching Cycling and keeping upto date with Procycling is not my thing....I'd much rather go out cycling and see nice scenery)....but guys like you have completely put me off coming near here...I just get dismayed...and although LA seems to be the No.1 target for the hostilities the whole 'feel' of this forum section is now ugly,angry and spiteful.... and to me thats a real shame...as I bet theres tons of guys...who could provide excellent info...but won't because of the bitterness here?
+1
I agree- take it elsewhere please. I would have loved to have ridden with Lance. Like I've said, he has not only been an inspiration in my cycling, but also in my everyday life. So to have had my moment on that day would have been unforgettable.
But it makes me happy that other people have been able to find joy in such a pleasure. And no, this doesn't mean our lives are "empty". Everyone finds pleasure in different things. Some people don't find pleasure in riding a bike (weird!) but we can't diss them for it. So that has cheered me up that people can remember their Lance experience as one of the best.
And it was good to hear the route info. So many times I have gone a similar way (I live in Paisley 9 months of the year, for the last 5 years. It's where I went to University from Ireland)- although usually I'd have done it in reverse, i love climbing UP the Glennifer Braes road from Paisley- and I am looking forward to doing it again and imagining that I was there that day. And to think that my icon has ridden these roads is just so friggin cool!
Hopefully I will get my chance some day. Is Jimmy Saville still doing that show on TV?
The most painful climb in Northern Ireland http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs200.snc1/6776_124247198694_548863694_2335754_8016178_n.jpg0 -
And yet you said earlier...paulcuthbert wrote:...it makes me happy that other people have been able to find joy in such a pleasure. And no, this doesn't mean our lives are "empty"...
:roll:paulcuthbert wrote:
+1AO1504 wrote:without Armstrong your bitter life would be empty as you would have nobody to talk about.
and you hit the nail on the head!!!0 -
Wow, this whole subject has gone into the Twilight Zone or the toilet. Can't quite make up my mind. What's left of it.0
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Hi guys/gals.
Ok 6 years on the forum, 3000+ posts, can I say something? This forum is going downhill so fast that Paolo Savoldelli would be be dropped out the back...
Anyone who's been reading for a while has heard all the stories, proven and unproven about LA. But the world isn't black and white - even bad people and do good things sometimes.
I'm out of here for a while.
Cheers, Andy
ps As I mentioned it in my first post on this thread, 30-40 riders hung on till the end, including all but one of my pals. Any 4th cat club rider who was paying attention on the first hill would have been able to keep up. It wasn't the Falkirk wheelabout!0 -
Ok ... I've been dismissed as a fanboy .. so wtf !! one from today (Tour of Ireland).
.. who said that, internet forum people ?0 -
This thread has descended into insanity.
Anyone sensible, if they like or dislike Armstrong will see his twitter ride as a nice gesture to his fans. I'd rather eat my own hair than ride with Lance but if you're a fan it must be great. And there's nothing wrong with being a fan and getting excited at the thought of riding with someone you admire.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:This thread has descended into insanity.
Anyone sensible, if they like or dislike Armstrong will see his twitter ride as a nice gesture to his fans. I'd rather eat my own hair than ride with Lance ......
Just to be contrary, I think it has ASCENDED into insanity and there is no one on this forum who is sensible. ......but "eat my own hair"? Now that's a good one. Even better than my, often used, personal favorite, "I'd rather trim my crotch hair with a weed whacker". 0 -
One of the aspects I truly love about cycling is that you can get up close to the biggest names of the sport and sometimes, if you're lucky, you can get to ride with them. I think it's incredibly generous of Armstrong to offer an open invitation to local cyclists to ride with him and he should be congratulated for that.
I was fortunate enough to get to ride with Sean Kelly once and it was great fun. I'm sure those who got to ride with Armstrong on Wednesday have similar experiences.
That some on here, and we know who I'm referring to, can only use this to further their anti-Armstrong vitriol is pathetic, and I'm not a fan.0 -
That some on here, and we know who I'm referring to, can only use this to further their anti-Armstrong vitriol is pathetic
+1O na bawn i fel LA0 -
dennisn wrote:Wow, this whole subject has gone into the Twilight Zone or the toilet. Can't quite make up my mind. What's left of it.
It is an open forum and what the hell am I reading and then doing a post on a pharmstrong thread. ??????
Well the thread starts getting longer and I can't help myself but have a look.
Wow what a great chap, it really is good of him to ride in Glasgow, I feel privileged to ride the same roads as he, and so on, and on.
This Private club of buddies is like a Red rag to the Bull and like most things in life then there are always opposites (even Gravity has an opposite and I know, it hurts) and with this open forum it will show.
Those of us who have No respect for the Fraudster and those who Idolise him cannot discuss him without the other saying their piece.
He comes back after 3 years (just when we had got him out of our system and moved on) and he knows how much controvesy there will be and for whose benifit but his own self and like all Conmen he feeds of the Mugs and the Gullible.
There must be a plan and it's not cycling or cancer awareness. ???? But we shall find out one day.Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
deejay wrote:dennisn wrote:Wow, this whole subject has gone into the Twilight Zone or the toilet. Can't quite make up my mind. What's left of it.
It is an open forum and what the hell am I reading and then doing a post on a pharmstrong thread. ??????
Well the thread starts getting longer and I can't help myself but have a look.
Wow what a great chap, it really is good of him to ride in Glasgow, I feel privileged to ride the same roads as he, and so on, and on.
This Private club of buddies is like a Red rag to the Bull and like most things in life then there are always opposites (even Gravity has an opposite and I know, it hurts) and with this open forum it will show.
Those of us who have No respect for the Fraudster and those who Idolise him cannot discuss him without the other saying their piece.
He comes back after 3 years (just when we had got him out of our system and moved on) and he knows how much controvesy there will be and for whose benifit but his own self and like all Conmen he feeds of the Mugs and the Gullible.
There must be a plan and it's not cycling or cancer awareness. ???? But we shall find out one day.
C'mon, be honest. Tell us how you REALLY feel.0 -
dennisn wrote:
C'mon, be honest. Tell us how you REALLY feel.
It's just got worse since 1994 when I listened to the sprog.
I felt 1999 was as big a joke as that of 1996 (Riis). :arrow:
Edit -- When they repeat the joke another 6 times it rather goes Stale.Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720
