Lance in Glasgow

BikingBernie

andyp wrote:

I was just thinking how odd it was that there was an Armstrong related thread that hadn't had a dose of the Aurelio medicine. :roll:

Can't people recognise this for what it was, a great day out for many?

If riding with Armstrong gives some meaning to the 'empty' lives of a bunch of people who 'admire' him, probably because he represents the sort of success they themselves desire but will never achieve, fair enough. However, such little PR stunts as this shouldn’t allow anyone to become blind to the reality of the way he 'won' his 7 Tours, nor the true nature of the man behind the corporate-backed propaganda machine.

le_patron

Moray Gub wrote:

Tenkfeet wrote:

Alan , that is a great write up . I recall the guy on the telephone so must have been close to you . My first ever ride with a group of bikes , brilliant what a rush.

Some pics on flikr which were sent to me http://www.flickr.com/photos/39241166@N ... 078429612/

Alan H

Im curious did any of you guys stay with Lance the whole way ? and if so how far was the ride and what was the avg speed.

Agree, can everyone stop all that other stuff and someone who was there answer this question. The reports are good, but everyone seemed to get dropped !

MrChuck

BikingBernie wrote:

andyp wrote:

I was just thinking how odd it was that there was an Armstrong related thread that hadn't had a dose of the Aurelio medicine. :roll:

Can't people recognise this for what it was, a great day out for many?

If riding with Armstrong gives some meaning to the 'empty' lives of a bunch of people who 'admire' him, probably because he represents the sort of success they themselves desire but will never achieve, fair enough. However, such little PR stunts as this shouldn’t allow anyone to become blind to the reality of the way he 'won' his 7 Tours, nor the true nature of the man behind the corporate-backed propaganda machine.

Jesus, can't you get over yourself for just a few minutes and allow that it would've been a pretty good day out for those lucky enough to be there?

Like (I suspect) a lot of others on here I'm not particularly pro- or anti-Lance, but comments like yours (and most of what frenchfighter has to say) just show a total lack of objectivity, and the desperate twisting of absolutely everything he does/doesn't do to try and present it as evidence of his bad character just makes you look like a bitter 'hater'.

BikingBernie

MrChuck wrote:

Jesus, can't you get over yourself for just a few minutes and allow that it would've been a pretty good day out for those lucky enough to be there?

I haven't argued otherwise... :roll:

MrChuck wrote:

...comments like yours ...just makes you look like a bitter 'hater'.

...if Jesus Christ and the Bible can be debated in a sound manner as is happening in many educated circles today, why not Lance Armstrong?

Well. Uh-oh. It doesn't work that way. In fact, if you do the same against Lance Armstrong, you're a jerk, a dick, a piece of shit, someone who doesn't value life or success and is a hater for the fight against cancer.

Really? Never has been the word 'hater' so overused and out of context. Who talked anything about cancer here? We're talking about the man. We're talking about his personality. We're talking about his wrongdoings and serious misdemeanors that need a place for focused, intelligent discussion.

Nope. Not allowed. ACCESS DENIED. We will delete your comment. Our management will have you banned. He fought cancer, he's a cancer survivor. He won the Tour de France 7 times. Sorry, we believe in him and We're Holier Than Thou. You will hereby be an outcast.

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2009/07 ... trong.html

frenchfighter

I have to just say one thing.

This thread is on a pro-race forum so other aspects of Lance will be discussed. If you are not happy with that then you Lance's Lions can contribute to the same thread in the Cake Stop forum. Why you didn't post your fawning comments there in the first place is beyond me and suggests you are trying to seek attention from the Pro Race regulars.

Here we go:
http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12644209

disgruntledgoat

frenchfighter wrote:

I have to just say one thing.

This thread is on a pro-race forum so other aspects of Lance will be discussed. If you are not happy with that then you Lance's Lions can contribute to the same thread in the Cake Stop forum. Why you didn't post your fawning comments there in the first place is beyond me and suggests you are trying to seek attention from the Pro Race regulars.

Here we go:
http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12644209

Serioulsy fella, nobody cares about the "pro race regulars" seal of approval in the whole wide world. You are just people with more time to post on a forum than others. Same goes for your "low post count" argument the other day.

Secondly, He's a pro cyclist... d y'see?

DaveyL

frenchfighter wrote:

I have to just say one thing.

This thread is on a pro-race forum so other aspects of Lance will be discussed. If you are not happy with that then you Lance's Lions can contribute to the same thread in the Cake Stop forum. Why you didn't post your fawning comments there in the first place is beyond me and suggests you are trying to seek attention from the Pro Race regulars.

Here we go:
http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12644209

I thoguht you weren't coming back to this thread?

Is there a "fawning over Bertie" thread in Cake Stop that we can pack you off to?

thamacdaddy

frenchfighter wrote:

I have to just say one thing.

This thread is on a pro-race forum so other aspects of Lance will be discussed. If you are not happy with that then you Lance's Lions can contribute to the same thread in the Cake Stop forum. Why you didn't post your fawning comments there in the first place is beyond me and suggests you are trying to seek attention from the Pro Race regulars.

Here we go:
http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12644209

You are forgetting that most of the comments have been from pro race regulars...deal with it and do one with the condescending manner of how you address people here I am more than sure its becomming tiresome for most.

DaveyL

BikingBernie wrote:

MrChuck wrote:

...comments like yours ...just makes you look like a bitter 'hater'.

Aurelio, you missed out a bit - I'll put it in for you "and the desperate twisting of absolutely everything he does/doesn't do to try and present it as evidence of his bad character"

MrChuck

BikingBernie wrote:

I haven't argued otherwise... :roll:

l

Really? It's pretty clear from your comment that you see nothing of any value in it, and anyone that does is just glad of something to fill their empty lives.

You've also missed my point- there's nothing at all wrong with criticism of Armstrong, and indeed it appears that there's plenty to criticise him for. I'd think only the most one-eyed Armstrong 'lovers' could blind themselves to that.

But (and maybe I'm just looking at the wrong threads) the most vocal and astonishingly one-eyed are the ones who will not, under any circumstances, allow that there could be anything positive, or even neutral, to say about him or what he does.

I don't think many people are arguing that he's a saint, but personally I find these posts attempting to cast his every move in the least flattering light a bit tired. I daresay there's an angle in a lot of the stuff he does but sometimes how about just letting things be what they are?

Gazzaputt

BikingBernie wrote:

andyp wrote:

I was just thinking how odd it was that there was an Armstrong related thread that hadn't had a dose of the Aurelio medicine. :roll:

Can't people recognise this for what it was, a great day out for many?

If riding with Armstrong gives some meaning to the 'empty' lives of a bunch of people who 'admire' him, probably because he represents the sort of success they themselves desire but will never achieve, fair enough. However, such little PR stunts as this shouldn’t allow anyone to become blind to the reality of the way he 'won' his 7 Tours, nor the true nature of the man behind the corporate-backed propaganda machine.

I bet you believe McDonalds, Coke, Pepsi, Strabucks, Nike, Oakley and all other large US companies are bases of all evil.

I would have loved to had ridden with him and my life is far from empty. Yours?

ksherratt

BikingBernie wrote:

If riding with Armstrong gives some meaning to the 'empty' lives of a bunch of people who 'admire' him, probably because he represents the sort of success they themselves desire but will never achieve, fair enough. However, such little PR stunts as this shouldn’t allow anyone to become blind to the reality of the way he 'won' his 7 Tours, nor the true nature of the man behind the corporate-backed propaganda machine.

Good grief! Maybe these people are slightly less sad that the bitter whinging individuals who obviously seek to bolster their own pitiful self esteem by standing on the side lines and attacking such legendary athletes and those who hold him in such high regard,

The man is a legend – you are not.

BikingBernie

ksherratt wrote:

Good grief! Maybe these people are slightly less sad that the bitter whinging individuals who obviously seek to bolster their own pitiful self esteem by standing on the side lines and attacking such legendary athletes and those who hold him in such high regard, The man is a legend – you are not.

You seem to miss the point that I was making: that the life of anyone who feels simply riding on the same bit of road as 'his holiness' is some sort of transcendental experience is probably no less 'empty' than those who feel that it is worthwhile pointing out the reality behind the myth.

As to 'not being a legend'. So what? I am already so happy with my life that becoming 'a legend' would add nothing of any real value to it, nor is my self-esteem in need of a boost. On the other hand, for those who do see 'being a legend' as being something to be admired, it must really hurt for them to know they will always be 'nobodies', and that the only way they can in any way touch what will never be theirs is via the vicarious thrill of being a 'fan' of someone like Armstrong.

BikingBernie

Gazzaputt wrote:

I would have loved to had ridden with him...

Why exactly?

BikingBernie

MrChuck wrote:

the most vocal and astonishingly one-eyed are the ones who will not, under any circumstances, allow that there could be anything positive, or even neutral, to say about him or what he does.

A question. Do you think that the media-savvy Mr. Armstrong was unaware of the interest and positive PR that this stunt would generate?

MrChuck

BikingBernie wrote:

MrChuck wrote:

the most vocal and astonishingly one-eyed are the ones who will not, under any circumstances, allow that there could be anything positive, or even neutral, to say about him or what he does.

A question. Do you think that the media-savvy Mr. Armstrong was unaware of the interest and positive PR that this stunt would generate?

Of course not, in fact I thought it was quite disingenuous of him to say he was surprised how many people turned up!

Maybe he was thinking of PR for Livestrong, maybe it was for Trek, or Mellow Johnny's, or Radio Shack, maybe it was to stroke his own ego or perhaps he just thought it'd be a laugh- whatever.

I don't know which of those reasons (or combination of them) he did it for, and neither do you. Thing is I don't care, or at least don't think any of them really matter. People are complex creatures and I'm sure Armstrong is no exception. Is he a saint for doing it? No, of course he's not. Is he an evil corporate monster for doing it? Again, no. There's just not enough of a story here to spin it into anything one way or another- it was what it was, and no more.

But the fact is that people got to ride for a bit with the biggest name in cycling for pretty much the last 10 years*, which is not something you get to do every day. I just don't see a reason to knock it.

*I'm sure you'll debate how worthy or not he is of this description, but I don't think you can deny it's an objective fact.

thamacdaddy

BikingBernie wrote:

MrChuck wrote:

the most vocal and astonishingly one-eyed are the ones who will not, under any circumstances, allow that there could be anything positive, or even neutral, to say about him or what he does.

A question. Do you think that the media-savvy Mr. Armstrong was unaware of the interest and positive PR that this stunt would generate?

Of course he is doing it for PR but not all PR is bad...get your head out of No Logo and chill out.

He is a shrewd operator of course but doesn't take away from the fact that it was also a good thing for the fans of his or even cycling to ride algon with a TdF winner irrespective of whether people think that was drugs trainted or not. Yes it's PR but it is PR that was done right, not with fans stuck behind fences a million miles away like a naff PR appearence by someone selling a pop record for the weekend.

DaveyL

Not sure Howard has done a very good job of weeing on this particular fire...

mikeq

BikingBernie wrote:

ksherratt wrote:

Good grief! Maybe these people are slightly less sad that the bitter whinging individuals who obviously seek to bolster their own pitiful self esteem by standing on the side lines and attacking such legendary athletes and those who hold him in such high regard, The man is a legend – you are not.

You seem to miss the point that I was making: that the life of anyone who feels simply riding on the same bit of road as 'his holiness' is some sort of transcendental experience is probably no less 'empty' than those who feel that it is worthwhile pointing out the reality behind the myth.

As to 'not being a legend'. So what? I am already so happy with my life that becoming 'a legend' would add nothing of any real value to it, nor is my self-esteem in need of a boost. On the other hand, for those who do see 'being a legend' as being something to be admired, it must really hurt for them to know they will always be 'nobodies', and that the only way they can in any way touch what will never be theirs is via the vicarious thrill of being a 'fan' of someone like Armstrong.

I haven't been a member here for long but these types of posts are depressing me.

You seem very bitter and sad Bernie, do you have this need to bring others down. It is up to the individual where they find inspiration from, and I for one do not need someone like you attempting to destroy that inpsiration.

My life is also not 'empty'.

Armstrong is an inspiration to many, unlike yourself that seem to take some perverse pleasure from sapping that energy from others.

dsmiff

I read Alan A's account yesterday and it actually brought a lump to my throat - it sounded like a great experience.

Opened this up today and it is sad that the usual idiots are at it again.

paulcuthbert

BikingBernie, you gotta learn to read. You quoted me when I was talking about chemotherapy and took as i was talking about as EPO. I wasn't. I was talking about Epogen (a brand or not, it doesn't matter) being used for renal cancer because the red blood cell count is so low that it will kill patients quicker if they don't up their blood counts. Epogen was not Lance's cure- he was given it a number of times during his chemotherapy to improve his blood counts.

What I am talking about is French journalists believing that Lance was given some magical potion to make him unbeatable during his time out. That simply isn't true. Chemotherapy is lethal. If it doesn't kill the cancer cells, it kills you! That, in my mind and I'm sure in anyone with a bit of common sense's mind, is NOT performance-enhancing.

You talk about evidence. If there's so much evidence against Lance, why has he not been banned- or even tested positive?

And then you quoted a load of anti-Lance stats from your anti-Lance book. If you look at 1996, the year he was diagnosed with cancer, his record and form was great- and had he not had breathing problems, might have been a Top 10 in the GC. It's not unheard of for riders to go from being relatively obscure and finishing (and in some cases not finishing) the Tour well behind the winner, only to come back a year or a few years later and improving greatly *cough* Bradley Wiggins *cough cough*

So I don't tend to believe in any of your doubts. Sorry!




Back to the topic- I too would be interested in hearing the route of Lance's ride from Paisley. I have heard that they headed towards Lochwinnoch and the "peloton" started to thin out as the road pitched up slightly. I'm gutted- because this is where I do a lot of my riding throughout the year. It's great riding country!

Does anyone have a detailed route, or even a map, for the ride they did?

thamacdaddy

paulcuthbert wrote:

and improving greatly *cough* Bradley Wiggins *cough cough*

Please I hope you didn't intend that to be a slur on Brad Wiggins

Roscobob

mikeq wrote:

BikingBernie wrote:

ksherratt wrote:

Good grief! Maybe these people are slightly less sad that the bitter whinging individuals who obviously seek to bolster their own pitiful self esteem by standing on the side lines and attacking such legendary athletes and those who hold him in such high regard, The man is a legend – you are not.

You seem to miss the point that I was making: that the life of anyone who feels simply riding on the same bit of road as 'his holiness' is some sort of transcendental experience is probably no less 'empty' than those who feel that it is worthwhile pointing out the reality behind the myth.

As to 'not being a legend'. So what? I am already so happy with my life that becoming 'a legend' would add nothing of any real value to it, nor is my self-esteem in need of a boost. On the other hand, for those who do see 'being a legend' as being something to be admired, it must really hurt for them to know they will always be 'nobodies', and that the only way they can in any way touch what will never be theirs is via the vicarious thrill of being a 'fan' of someone like Armstrong.

I haven't been a member here for long but these types of posts are depressing me.

You seem very bitter and sad Bernie, do you have this need to bring others down. It is up to the individual where they find inspiration from, and I for one do not need someone like you attempting to destroy that inpsiration.

My life is also not 'empty'.

Armstrong is an inspiration to many, unlike yourself that seem to take some perverse pleasure from sapping that energy from others.

Well said! I know exactly how you feel.

disgruntledgoat

Roscobob wrote:

mikeq wrote:

BikingBernie wrote:

ksherratt wrote:

Good grief! Maybe these people are slightly less sad that the bitter whinging individuals who obviously seek to bolster their own pitiful self esteem by standing on the side lines and attacking such legendary athletes and those who hold him in such high regard, The man is a legend – you are not.

You seem to miss the point that I was making: that the life of anyone who feels simply riding on the same bit of road as 'his holiness' is some sort of transcendental experience is probably no less 'empty' than those who feel that it is worthwhile pointing out the reality behind the myth.

As to 'not being a legend'. So what? I am already so happy with my life that becoming 'a legend' would add nothing of any real value to it, nor is my self-esteem in need of a boost. On the other hand, for those who do see 'being a legend' as being something to be admired, it must really hurt for them to know they will always be 'nobodies', and that the only way they can in any way touch what will never be theirs is via the vicarious thrill of being a 'fan' of someone like Armstrong.

I haven't been a member here for long but these types of posts are depressing me.

You seem very bitter and sad Bernie, do you have this need to bring others down. It is up to the individual where they find inspiration from, and I for one do not need someone like you attempting to destroy that inpsiration.

My life is also not 'empty'.

Armstrong is an inspiration to many, unlike yourself that seem to take some perverse pleasure from sapping that energy from others.

Well said! I know exactly how you feel.

+ another one.

I'm no fan of Armstrong, but some people are. I'm also no fan of U2, but some people are. Doesn't mean I think any less of them. Their taste just doesn't coincide with mine. I don't feel the need to belittle them and tell them they're wrong at every turn.... I don't even do that to Saint Helens fans (as they're beyond salvation)

Gazzaputt

BikingBernie wrote:

Gazzaputt wrote:

I would have loved to had ridden with him...

Why exactly?

Because it'd annoy people like you.

dennisn

Gazzaputt wrote:

BikingBernie wrote:

Gazzaputt wrote:

I would have loved to had ridden with him...

Why exactly?

Because it'd annoy people like you.

That really made me smile.
Sad part is, there really are people it would annoy.
Sometimes it sounds like a "nasty" divorce between Lance and some of the posters
that so vehemently go after him. My brother and his ex come to mind. Constant barrage of
bad feelings, accusations, cursing, etc., from both sides. Although in Lances case here, he's not saying much.

afx237vi

Damn, Dennis, sometimes I feel like I could be your official biographer, just from reading your posts here.

Is there no cycling-related scenario you cannot somehow relate to an experience you've had with a family member / co-worker / ex-acquaintance / dude you met on a bus in 1983?

disgruntledgoat

afx237vi wrote:

Damn, Dennis, sometimes I feel like I could be your official biographer, just from reading your posts here.

Is there no cycling-related scenario you cannot somehow relate to an experience you've had with a family member / co-worker / ex-acquaintance / dude you met on a bus in 1983?

That's why we love sport! It's our own lives writ large with added drama and a zero sum game to act as a morality tale!

Incidentally, I love the hints at Dennis' seedy past.

dennisn

afx237vi wrote:

Damn, Dennis, sometimes I feel like I could be your official biographer, just from reading your posts here.

Is there no cycling-related scenario you cannot somehow relate to an experience you've had with a family member / co-worker / ex-acquaintance / dude you met on a bus in 1983?

No, not really. That's the way life is. Lot of deja vu in my life. One thing reminds me of another. Oh well. Add to that the fact that I am somewhat old(60) and it seems that the same things get repeated over and over in life, just with different people. wink:

Tenkfeet

The route was from Paisley high street (on the B789) out towards Elderslie and Johnstone to Howwood ( B787) . At Howwod we turned right onto an unclssified road ( Station road on Multimap) We followed that until it intersect the B786 and turned left down to Lochwinnoch. At Lochwinnoch it was left at the lights (on A760) to the A737 . We followed the A737 and turned off back to Howwood.

At Howwood it was right onto the B776 upthe hill (a.k.a. the hill of decimation )to Hall. At Hall it was a left onto the B775 (Gleniffer Braes road ) staying on it down the hill into Pailsley , Causeyside street then left up New street back to the hotel .

I made it just over 26miles at an average speed of 18mph . Don't have exact figures as I forgot to look before I cycled back to my car . The average speed up front would have been higher until the Braes road where they slowed down and I caught up . The pace down into Paisley was easy.