Lance in Glasgow

mikeq

Best Paisley quote I heard while we were heading out of Paisley, oncoming car pulls over to side of road, opens his window and shouts

"Yah fannies", priceless

moray_gub

frenchfighter wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

PS, my respect for Armstrong went up a tiny fraction for doing the group ride, but then plummeted again when I heard he was there to see U2. Some things are just unforgivable, I'm afraid.

Oh right.

I have come to the conclusion that Lance fans do not ride their bikes an awful lot.

I have come to the conclusion that you really dont know that to be the case at all.

moray_gub

mikeq wrote:

Best Paisley quote I heard while we were heading out of Paisley, oncoming car pulls over to side of road, opens his window and shouts

"Yah fannies", priceless

if its not ya fannies the the neds shout it would be ya bawbags .

afx237vi

frenchfighter wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

PS, my respect for Armstrong went up a tiny fraction for doing the group ride, but then plummeted again when I heard he was there to see U2. Some things are just unforgivable, I'm afraid.

Oh right.

I have come to the conclusion that Lance fans do not ride their bikes an awful lot.

:?:

Why have you quoted me with that? It was a wisecrack about U2 being a rubbish band. It had nothing to with Lance or his fans.

frenchfighter

Moray Gub wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

I have come to the conclusion that Lance fans do not ride their bikes an awful lot.

I have come to the conclusion that you really dont know that to be the case at all.

frenchfighter wrote:

Rosco, no direct hit at you - what I've read of your posts so far have shown sense and an understanding many people with a hundred time your post count do not have.

Check.

moray_gub

iainf72 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

It's just a sport, I'd expect a mixture of people who are fans and people who are fans and participate.

+1 i think its a nonsense to say that Lance fans or any other fans or riders do or dont ride their bikes. I mean how long is a piece of string ?

moray_gub

frenchfighter wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

I have come to the conclusion that Lance fans do not ride their bikes an awful lot.

I have come to the conclusion that you really dont know that to be the case at all.

frenchfighter wrote:

Rosco, no direct hit at you - what I've read of your posts so far have shown sense and an understanding many people with a hundred time your post count do not have.

Check.

Yea it was made for you that comment, you really do spout some utter guff at times.

frenchfighter

Afx I didn't realsise you were being sarcastic - it can be easily read the other way. I try to avoid sarcasm on forums for that reason.

frenchfighter

Moray Gub wrote:

Yea it was made for you that comment, you really do spout some utter guff at times.

Coming from you I take that as a complement.

moray_gub

frenchfighter wrote:

Case in point.

I have also noticed that most of the pro Lance people have very few posts. Often really low.

Even if that was the case what conclusions do you draw from that oh wise one ?

moray_gub

frenchfighter wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

Yea it was made for you that comment, you really do spout some utter guff at times.

Coming from you I take that as a complement.

Take it any way you want but the point stands especially when it comes to Lance, some of the things you say are quite frankly presposterous.

Tenkfeet

Alan , that is a great write up . I recall the guy on the telephone so must have been close to you . My first ever ride with a group of bikes , brilliant what a rush.

Some pics on flikr which were sent to me http://www.flickr.com/photos/39241166@N ... 078429612/

Alan H

frenchfighter

Case in point. I think I will leave this thread now as it is making me cringe.

moray_gub

Tenkfeet wrote:

Alan , that is a great write up . I recall the guy on the telephone so must have been close to you . My first ever ride with a group of bikes , brilliant what a rush.

Some pics on flikr which were sent to me http://www.flickr.com/photos/39241166@N ... 078429612/

Alan H

Im curious did any of you guys stay with Lance the whole way ? and if so how far was the ride and what was the avg speed.

moray_gub

frenchfighter wrote:

Case in point. I think I will leave this thread now as it is making me cringe.

Yea not a bad idea as you cant even see a bit of good in LA doing what he did with a group of punters

paulcuthbert

mikeq wrote:

Best Paisley quote I heard while we were heading out of Paisley, oncoming car pulls over to side of road, opens his window and shouts

"Yah fannies", priceless

Haha. Probably the same guy that did a similar thing to me as I was riding along. Although I got:

"Hoi pal, you got blond hair!! Aaaaahahahaha!"

All the passengers in the car thought it was hilarious. I still don't understand what is funny about it :roll:

paulcuthbert

I don't really understand your point about Lance fans not being cyclists. I've always ridden a bike (I think I learned when I was 3 or 4!), but it was Lance's comeback in 1999 when I was an impressionable 13 year old that really got me interested in the sport of cycling. I'd always watched the Tour because I had to tape it for my Dad who hadn't cycled home in time from work when it was on Channel 4 at 6 in the evening! I remember Boardman's crash in Ireland in the 90s, Indurain's last Tour, and the Tour wins of Ullrich and Pantani- so I'm not someone who "got into" cycling because of Lance. But he did spur on my enthusiasm for both the activity and the sport of cycling.

I'm competitive in the sport, but I would say I am an active cyclist, definitely. When I'm not working or studying, I do 30-40km a day (in any weather!), and at the weekends I do 60-80km rides. I could go further, but I tend to sleep in! Haha.

I also follow the sport. Not just the TdF, but all the races (although TdF is the only I can get on TV!) in magazines such as Procycling or Cycle Sport Magazine, not forgetting the Internet. I'm also a CTC member, and am considering joining a club when I return to Scotland next month. I don't do " training " so to speak- I don't obsess over my calorie or carb intake or look at my watts or cadence- I just enjoy cycling, and think the sport is fascinating. A lot of this is down to Lance Armstrong- but it's not as if I stopped following the sport or stopped riding when he retired in 2005.

So in this instance, this Lance fan isn't not an active cyclist- and the same goes for my Dad, who is 53 and does a 30km round-trip commute every day- as well as heading out for longer rides with me on weekends.

DaveyL

frenchfighter wrote:

Case in point. I think I will leave this thread now as it is making me cringe.

I was going to say "Get out while you still have some dignity" but it is way too late for that. I am about as much of a Lance fan as, for example, Iain is, but like him I can see what a great gesture this was.

You however are unable to recognise that, but are also unable to find anything about it to criticise so instead you result to ad hominem criticisim based on the post counts of some posters. Some of whom seem to be infrequent posters who have taken part in the ride then posted about it, or simply signed up just to post about the ride.

Well, I'm sorry to inform you that a high or low post count does not point to a great or small knowledge of cycling - it simply reflects the number of times someone has posted on this forum (as if that needed explaining) and not much else.

However if you want to talk about post counts - how many meaningful ones do you have, i.e. once we've dicsounted simply posting up pictures or unadulterated Contador hagiography?

paulcuthbert

DaveyL wrote:

Well, I'm sorry to inform you that a high or low post count does not point to a great or small knowledge of cycling - it simply reflects the number of times someone has posted on this forum (as if that needed explaining) and not much else

I agree. I only have a hundredandsomething posts, but I am a GENIUS

Not

deejay

guinea wrote:

I'm a fan of Ole Einar Bjorndalen but I've never skied

I've never skied and I am a fan also + I go back to the Bjorn Dahlie exploits.

paulcuthbert wrote:

I've always ridden a bike (I think I learned when I was 3 or 4!), but it was Lance's comeback in 1999 when I was an impressionable 13 year old that really got me interested in the sport of cycling. I'd always watched the Tour because I had to tape it for my Dad who hadn't cycled home in time from work when it was on Channel 4 at 6 in the evening! I remember Boardman's crash in Ireland in the 90s, Indurain's last Tour, and the Tour wins of Ullrich and Pantani- so I'm not someone who "got into" cycling because of Lance. But he did spur on my enthusiasm for both the activity and the sport of cycling.

Paul I'm not having a poke at you and I see that you have been brought up with Cycling being a Main Sport to you and many of us.

You mention Indurain's last win in 1995 (and Boardmans crash in the 90's and wonder which one of so, so many) at age 9 I think.
Indurain, Riis, Ulrich and Pantani, yes but did you hear of Lance at that time except his performance on the stage after the Casertelli Death.
He really cashed in on that one for you and the World to notice him.
Otherwise he was just a former lucky World Champion and I heard him bemoan the fact that nobody recognlsed him and then Casertelli happened.
We hoped we had seen the last of him when he retired from the 1996 French Tour and went home to Texas moaning about loss of form.
That same tour (96) which was won by another moderate rider (RIIS) who could suddenly overnight climb Mountains like no other. wow. said Ligget "he's just playing with them" etc.
Armstrong returned in 1998 and got 4th on GC at the Vuelta. (nothing special)

1999 Tour de France and would you believe another moderate rider that can suddenly overnight climb Mountains (and TT) just like Riis did.
Riis under pressure has now confessed and said that he would not have won that tour without the Drugs supplied by his German Telekom (T-Mobile) Team.
I can understand your enthusiasm as a teeager but you are a grown man now and should be able to put aside your childhood fancies.

Armstrong allegedly has a bit of paper (TUE) relating to the Drugs he uses to overcome cancer and as I understand it to mean they cannot do a Normal test proceedure on him.

My Challenge then to all the Pharmstrong Fans is that you were born after 1980
or you only got into Cycle Racing (whatever you do or don't, don't matter to me) in the last dozen years (12). ?????????

So if you have been around longer than that, then have a go at me otherwise I just feel sorry about your problem

someone posted Tiger Woods and Michael Schumacher having Talent.
They had that Talent from a young age and not found after a course of Drugs for cancer.???
As the man said it makes one Cringe so why do you bother with these children if they want to be bewitched by a Fraud.

I

moray_gub

DaveyL wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Case in point. I think I will leave this thread now as it is making me cringe.

I was going to say "Get out while you still have some dignity" but it is way too late for that. I am about as much of a Lance fan as, for example, Iain is, but like him I can see what a great gesture this was.

You however are unable to recognise that, but are also unable to find anything about it to criticise so instead you result to ad hominem criticisim based on the post counts of some posters. Some of whom seem to be infrequent posters who have taken part in the ride then posted about it, or simply signed up just to post about the ride.

Well, I'm sorry to inform you that a high or low post count does not point to a great or small knowledge of cycling - it simply reflects the number of times someone has posted on this forum (as if that needed explaining) and not much else.

However if you want to talk about post counts - how many meaningful ones do you have, i.e. once we've dicsounted simply posting up pictures or unadulterated Contador hagiography?

Couldnt have put it better myself

moray_gub

deejay wrote:

So if you have been around longer than that, then have a go at me otherwise I just feel sorry about your problem



I

Why is liking a talented World Champion like Lance a problem ? I dont get this one at all.

mikeq

I thought armstrong showed talent at a young age for cycling when he was doing triathalons?

paulcuthbert

deejay wrote:

guinea wrote:

I'm a fan of Ole Einar Bjorndalen but I've never skied

I've never skied and I am a fan also + I go back to the Bjorn Dahlie exploits.

paulcuthbert wrote:

I've always ridden a bike (I think I learned when I was 3 or 4!), but it was Lance's comeback in 1999 when I was an impressionable 13 year old that really got me interested in the sport of cycling. I'd always watched the Tour because I had to tape it for my Dad who hadn't cycled home in time from work when it was on Channel 4 at 6 in the evening! I remember Boardman's crash in Ireland in the 90s, Indurain's last Tour, and the Tour wins of Ullrich and Pantani- so I'm not someone who "got into" cycling because of Lance. But he did spur on my enthusiasm for both the activity and the sport of cycling.

Paul I'm not having a poke at you and I see that you have been brought up with Cycling being a Main Sport to you and many of us.

You mention Indurain's last win in 1995 (and Boardmans crash in the 90's and wonder which one of so, so many) at age 9 I think.
Indurain, Riis, Ulrich and Pantani, yes but did you hear of Lance at that time except his performance on the stage after the Casertelli Death.
He really cashed in on that one for you and the World to notice him.
Otherwise he was just a former lucky World Champion and I heard him bemoan the fact that nobody recognlsed him and then Casertelli happened.
We hoped we had seen the last of him when he retired from the 1996 French Tour and went home to Texas moaning about loss of form.
That same tour (96) which was won by another moderate rider (RIIS) who could suddenly overnight climb Mountains like no other. wow. said Ligget "he's just playing with them" etc.
Armstrong returned in 1998 and got 4th on GC at the Vuelta. (nothing special)

1999 Tour de France and would you believe another moderate rider that can suddenly overnight climb Mountains (and TT) just like Riis did.
Riis under pressure has now confessed and said that he would not have won that tour without the Drugs supplied by his German Telekom (T-Mobile) Team.
I can understand your enthusiasm as a teeager but you are a grown man now and should be able to put aside your childhood fancies.

Armstrong allegedly has a bit of paper (TUE) relating to the Drugs he uses to overcome cancer and as I understand it to mean they cannot do a Normal test proceedure on him.

My Challenge then to all the Pharmstrong Fans is that you were born after 1980
or you only got into Cycle Racing (whatever you do or don't, don't matter to me) in the last dozen years (12). ?????????

So if you have been around longer than that, then have a go at me otherwise I just feel sorry about your problem

someone posted Tiger Woods and Michael Schumacher having Talent.
They had that Talent from a young age and not found after a course of Drugs for cancer.???
As the man said it makes one Cringe so why do you bother with these children if they want to be bewitched by a Fraud.

I

Hold up... you go on about growing up. Wasn't Lance competing in, and winning, major Triathlon races in the US before he was 18- beating competitors twice his age and with so much more experience? Didn't Chris Carmichael and Jim Ochowitz spot the talent in him and snap him up in his late teens/early twenties? Wasn't he the youngest World Champion at the age of 21 in 1993? Wasn't he one of the youngest stage winners at the Tour in 1993?

I actually do remember Lance before the Casartelli thing. I only remembered about Casartelli recently when I read his book. I remember him being beaten in a cat and mouse sprint (can't remember where or the year) by that Ukranian cyclist.. Uchikov? Or something... I just remember Phil Ligget's commentary being funny, because as a kid you find stupid stuff like "ooo-chee-cough" funny. And it stood out. Uchikov was funny looking to me, whereas Lance looked normal. And I liked that. But I really wanted Lance to win, and I remember feeling sorry for him when I saw him interviewed post-race. I liked his attitude- and you learn from stuff like that as an impressionable 7, 8 or 9 year old. So I guess I am a Lance fan pre-Casartelli's death. Sorry to disappoint!

You cannot say that Lance did not have talent before his cancer therapy. That is a very blind and naive viewpoint- and I think you need to get off your high horse about it. You've been fed that and you're regurgitating it as ammunition. Yes, Lance had to have Epogen in his therapy. But in cancer treatments (which as a pretty well read kid, I know a lot about) Epogen is essential to keep the depleated red blood cell counts up. It is most commonly used in renal cancer cases, but is common in a lot of different cancer therapies. It would not stay long enough in his system to enhance his performance- and chemotherapy is not, as some French journalists would try to have you believe, any kind of performance enhancing drug. It is probably some of the most toxic cures (a paradox, I'm sure) in modern medicine.

Nobody gets anywhere in life without hard work. And Lance did just that- first of all to beat the disease, and then to train and focus on the one race that he won 7 times. Nobody every really reconnaitred the Tour route with the pretext of winning it. And no one trained specifically to win it. But Lance did.
I hold my hands up- Lance probably isn't the greatest cyclist "of all time". I never said he was. But there is no denying that he is the greatest Tour de France champion of all time. No one else has won 7 on the trot, and it isn't very likely that anyone else will in my lifetime. So of course I can revel in this triumph, as it is part of my growing up. Anyone who grew up in the 1960s won't deny that The Beatles were successful. It's a stupid thing to try to do, so don't try to deny Lance his dues.

And another thing to note- Lance killed everyone in the TT at the Tour du Pont in 1996, so you can't say he was an "overnight success" on the TT bike. For God's sake, he was a Triathlete! If he couldn't ride fast in a TT in the Triathlon he wouldn't have gotten into BIKE RACING in the first place. And overall, Lance's performances were steadily improving leading up to his disappointing performance at the 1996 Olympics. He was growing as a rider, and had just signed a major deal with Cofidis. I believe he would have prospered and become good enough to win the Tour without the cancer hurdle. Maybe not a 7-time champion, but perhaps a solid 1-time like good ol' Sastre!

Lance himself has said he might not have changed his outlook to focus on winning the Tour if he hadn't have survived cancer. But as a Lance fan, I could see that he was going somewhere and I was following his progress as a rider, because I liked him. And I think, eventually, he would have been good enough to challenge, or even win, the Tour de France.

I can see your point- and I can see why it's easy to believe the doping rumours that have dogged him. But what I can't see, is why no one believes that he has gotten to where he is with hard work (and perhaps a bit of luck). I was never the smartest kid in school. I wanted to drop out before my GCSEs. But I didn't. I stuck at it- aced them, did OK in my A levels, and progressed to University. YEs, I had to be pushed to do homework and essays and stuff in school. But at Uni, I just put my head down, and got a 2nd Class Honours degree. That's not the biggest achievement in the world by any stretch of the imagination. But my point is, that if you have a little bit of talent, with hard work you can achieve great things. If I am Lance, then my degree (and subsequently, an MSc next year- eep!) is my Tour de France. I had my sights set on it for 4 years, and I got it by working my ass off for it. So I'm a believer- because I've seen it for myself.

And I don't think anything you can say will make me doubt my inspiration.

Again, sorry to disappoint

moray_gub

paulcuthbert wrote:

And I don't think anything you can say will make me doubt my inspiration.

Again, sorry to disappoint

Paul you have clearly a passion for cycling and Lance in particular what and who you take inspiration from is for you and you alone to decide. I dont get why certain posters need to pour scorn or tell others who they can and cannot take inspiration from. A few weeks back a poster even declared that cancer sufferers taking inspiration from Lance was the wrong thing to do...............go figure.

AO1504

deejay wrote:

My Challenge then to all the Pharmstrong Fans is that you were born after 1980
or you only got into Cycle Racing (whatever you do or don't, don't matter to me) in the last dozen years (12). ?????????

So if you have been around longer than that, then have a go at me otherwise I just feel sorry about your problem

I

What exactly is your challenge to Armstrong fans as you make absolutely no sense with that paragraph. You seem to take moral high ground based on being into cycling longer than those born after 1980 and you feel sorry because they have a problem. Well frankly you are the one with the problem. I would expect someone aged 30+ to have a better grasp of the English language and be able to construct and write a coherant paragraph.

I think your comment about cashing in on the death of Casertelli is bang out of order and I think you'll find in many sports there will be people who try extra hard to win things following the death of a teammate to honour them. I suppose you think the Motherwell Football team were trying to cash in on the death of their team captain Phil O'Donnell who died whilst playing for them when they had his signature embroidered onto their tops and used his death to spur them onto gain a place in the UEFA Cup for the first time in years.

Oh and yes I was born before 1980 so I am allowed to have a go at you (my my how privileged am I).

But back to the orignal point about the 1995 Tour. You asked "did you hear of Lance at that time except his performance on the stage after the Casertelli Death" well actually we all did on stage 13 but i suppose in your warped mind he was trying to win that stage to cash in on death of his teammate that would happen 2 days later. Or maybe you think Armstrong engineered the whole thing for Casertelli to crash so that he could then make his big show and get the world to notice him.

You use words like "allegedly" and "I understand" about this bit of paper and not being able to do a normal test but the reality is you know absolutely nothing about whether or not he has it or not or what tests get done on him.

Your attitude is what I love about armchair fans of professional sport. Because you don't have the ability to get to the professional level you try to put down those on the professional circuit by saying Riis and Armstrong were moderate and that finishing 4th in your first Grand Tour following a life threatening illness is nothing special, well I bet there are millions worldwide who wished they could be half as moderate or could achieve a 4th place finish in a Grand Tour regardless whether they had suffered from a life threatening illness.

I believe Bradley Wiggins was pretty pleased with a 4th place finish in a Grand Tour but then again Wiggins had always been able to compete in the mountains and didn't suddenly become able to compete with the best and finish high in the GC.

Oh and I don't think Armstrong would have been moaning about a loss of form in 96 if he had realised his body was riddled with Cancer but then again maybe he engineered the whole thing so that the world would notice him.

If Armstrong bothers you so much why read a thread about him but then again without Armstrong your bitter life would be empty as you would have nobody to talk about.

paulcuthbert

AO1504 wrote:

I believe Bradley Wiggins was pretty pleased with a 4th place finish in a Grand Tour but then again Wiggins had always been able to compete in the mountains and didn't suddenly become able to compete with the best and finish high in the GC.

Oh and I don't think Armstrong would have been moaning about a loss of form in 96 if he had realised his body was riddled with Cancer but then again maybe he engineered the whole thing so that the world would notice him.

If Armstrong bothers you so much why read a thread about him but then again without Armstrong your bitter life would be empty as you would have nobody to talk about.

+1

and you hit the nail on the head!!!

Dscotland

it would be good to continue this thread with some more details of where the ride went and would be nice to hear from anyone who did the ride to the finish ,

i fear the people wanting to contribute may decide not as as their thoughts may get lost in " the alternative " discussion

i.e , did Mr Lord Greame Sir Obree do the whole run

just a thought !!!!!!!!!!!!

BikingBernie

paulcuthbert wrote:

You cannot say that Lance did not have talent before his cancer therapy.

Of course he was talented, he just didn't have that special something that marks out a winner of the Grand Tours. It took him three attempts to even finish the Tour de France and that saw him come in one and a half hours behind the winner! Compare that with the Tour record of people like Merckx, Fignon and Lemond.

paulcuthbert wrote:

Epogen is essential to keep the depleated red blood cell counts up. It is most commonly used in renal cancer cases, but is common in a lot of different cancer therapies. It would not stay long enough in his system to enhance his performance- and chemotherapy is not, as some French journalists would try to have you believe, any kind of performance enhancing drug.

What?!!! Epogen is just a brand name for Epo, the most effective and abused performance-enhancing drug in the history of cycling!

paulcuthbert wrote:

Nobody gets anywhere in life without hard work. And Lance did just that- first of all to beat the disease

No one 'beats cancer. You just get lucky and respond well to the treatment given.

paulcuthbert wrote:

And another thing to note- Lance killed everyone in the TT at the Tour du Pont in 1996, so you can't say he was an "overnight success" on the TT bike. For God's sake, he was a Triathlete! If he couldn't ride fast in a TT in the Triathlon he wouldn't have gotten into BIKE RACING in the first place.

Pre- cancer (or rather pre-Ferrari), Armstrong openly said that he was targeting the first flat TT in the Tour and that he was aiming to improve by about a minute a year. Despite this his time-trialling remained consistently mediocre consistently losing around 6 minutes for 3 years on the run.

paulcuthbert wrote:

I can see why it's easy to believe the doping rumours that have dogged him.

What amazes me is that anyone could still think he was clean, given the overwhelming amount of evidence showing that his literally unbelievable increase in ability had more to do with Epo and autologous blood doping than nearly dying of cancer. Perhaps you need to do some reasearch. (See also your comments re. Epogen...).

paulcuthbert wrote:

if you have a little bit of talent, with hard work you can achieve great things

But if you are a pro cyclist, what you won't do is beat others who are just as dedicated as you, but more talented and doped to the gills. Unless you also dope of course...

paulcuthbert wrote:

don't think anything you can say will make me doubt my inspiration.

As they say, 'Faith is blind'.

andyp

I was just thinking how odd it was that there was an Armstrong related thread that hadn't had a dose of the Aurelio medicine. :roll:

Can't people recognise this for what it was, a great day out for many?