Stage 20 - Montélimar - Mont-Ventoux - SPOILER
Comments
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Fastlad wrote:
Er, well, I'd say the guys who finished 1st and 2nd would be more of a favourite than the guy who finished 3rd.
In 2010 LA will be a year older. At his age that is not a bonus.
On the other hand, AC and Andy Schleck will also be a year older. At their age, that is definitely a bonus.0 -
Fastlad wrote:
Are you for real?? Bertie and Andy were a class above everyone.. no doubt LA will come back better prepared next but the other two will still be far ahead...0 -
lance just cant match andy and berties acceleration on the climbs, he used to have it but not anymore
cant see where he could make time on them during a tour to beat them, well he might make a little time on andy in the tt's but not bertie and both will take time out of lance in the mountains0 -
Coriander wrote:Just as the leading three in GC went round the last corner Contador said something to LA and gesticulated rather firmly. Any ideas what that might have been about?
I saw that too: it was either:
A. He was telling LA that Frank had been dropped (he was several metres behind)
B. He was telling LA he was just about to secure his 4th GT win
C. He was giving LA the opportunity to ride through and finish ahead of him
I'll let you decide what you think. but if I was a betting man (and I'm not), I would go with A - even though this had no bearing whatsoever on the GC standings. It def look like he was trying to say that there was no one (e.g. Frank) behind him.0 -
Anyone disappointed with today's stage was rooting for someone not named LA to get 3rd and that's the only reason anyone could be disappointed.
You had Andy attacking non-stop, you had Nibali ride off with people wondering if he could get 2 minutes at one point, you had Wiggins holding on for dear life, you had Kloden dropped twice, you had a huge, great crowd that blocked most of the wind and you had the cycling world's greatest villain, LA, with a bullseye on his front wheel.
If you were disappointed today, go teach Frank to TT and/or recover well enough to attack the next day. Wiggo was never dangerous, never had the team and never had a chance (but he rode great and 4th is a spectacular finish), today was supposed to be about Frank and he was a complete no show. Even if Frank was able to attack, I never once saw LA even come close to struggle so I'm not even sure it would have mattered. LA never remotely looked to be in trouble, accelerated with Frank fine and Contador was a fantastic teammate today.0 -
hagrin wrote:Anyone disappointed with today's stage was rooting for someone not named LA to get 3rd and that's the only reason anyone could be disappointed.
You had Andy attacking non-stop, you had Nibali ride off with people wondering if he could get 2 minutes at one point, you had Wiggins holding on for dear life, you had Kloden dropped twice, you had a huge, great crowd that blocked most of the wind and you had the cycling world's greatest villain, LA, with a bullseye on his front wheel.
If you were disappointed today, go teach Frank to TT and/or recover well enough to attack the next day. Wiggo was never dangerous, never had the team and never had a chance (but he rode great and 4th is a spectacular finish), today was supposed to be about Frank and he was a complete no show. Even if Frank was able to attack, I never once saw LA even come close to struggle so I'm not even sure it would have mattered. LA never remotely looked to be in trouble, accelerated with Frank fine and Contador was a fantastic teammate today.
Umm, I was disappointed with today's stage, and hagrin I would appreciate it if you didn't conclude that is because I was not 'rooting' for LA.
So thanks for telling my why I feel a certain way - your assumptions make you look like a douche.
I was disappointed because effectively the stage became a stand off between the favourites.
Andy's attacks were ineffective because he kept dropping his brother. It's a pity that Andy didn't forget about Frank and do an all-out attack. Would've been good to see how AC reacted. To see if the two would ride off together and catch the lead group. See if anyone could go with them. See if one of the big names could win on the legendary Ventoux.
Yes, Andy did attack repeatedly; however the fact that the leading trio - who had been in a breakaway for the entire day- , held a 3'24 lead over the Yellow group with 16kms to race and Garate ended up winning by 40 seconds whilst riding into a head wind the whole way, suggests the Schleck group could've gone up the mountain a whole lot quicker if they wanted to.
It was an anti-climatic stage. Go ask Christian Prudhomme if the stage unfolded how he had hoped it would.
Everyone ended up riding defensively to maintain their positions. Yes, I know that this is an integral part of cycling. But it wasn't what I wanted to see.
Ventoux is a part of Tour Legend. No offence to Garate, nor Martin (they can't control what happens behind them), but it's not like he'll be mentioned in the same breathe as other winners like Raymond Poulidor, Eddy Merckx, Bernard Thévenet or Marco Pantani.
See hagrin, that's why I was disappointed with today's stage - and it has nothing to do with LA or what position he finished up in GC.0 -
Moray Gub wrote:Looking at the GC this morning i think that was always on the cards, Brad was never gonna risk losing 4th to get 3rd and same with Lance with 2nd and Frank was just too far behind to influence things.
+1. especially after I heared the headwind strength.
Favours a strong man and Armstrong certainly fall into that catagory.
The only way his finishing third disappoints me, is that Bradley stays fourth.
Still, we have had the now traditional, "one of the podium tests positive", yet. :P
In the meantime, I hope the ASO figure out just where to put those big, lumpy bits, before October."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Fastlad wrote:Meaning? oh, that'll be the race he is 3rd in? i'd say that makes him a favourite.
If he'd finished 33rd, you'd still make him favourite and that's your prerogative.
You now have 49 weeks to live the dream."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
[troll]Well you have to hand it Astana and the way they have ridden this tour
Never in the annuals of tour history has a team been so committed to getting there 4th best rider upto 3rd on GC despite having the winner on their team[/troll]"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
mididoctors wrote:[troll]Well you have to hand it Astana and the way they have ridden this tour
Never in the annuals of tour history has a team been so committed to getting there 4th best rider upto 3rd on GC despite having the winner on their team[/troll] 0 -
Wiggins just twittered that he had a picture of Tom Simpson on his top tube !!!!
sorry guys but that is just pure class, beyond normal sport... stuff of legend0 -
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Agreed. I had him down for a top ten place, but he definitely looked the third strongest in the race. The fact that Wiggins lost that time early on probably didn't change a thing as he was dying at the top of the climb and I am sure Armstrong could have found something more if their positions had been reversed. All in all, an impressive performance.Moray Gub wrote:Looking at it objectively - and that can be difficult for a lot of anti lance fanboys - irrespective of the shite he spouts to finish 3rd is very impressive
Of course Armstrong is still a bully, an egotist, is manipulative, vindictive, a control freak, exploits and feeds anti-French xenophobia, is a complete corporate whore, has been one of the main enforcers of cycling’s doping omerta and has been 'scientifically proven' to be a doper himself (at least in the past), but credit where credit is due. And after all, he has found his forte in a dog-eat-dog, drug-ridden, brutally competitive sport where his 'personal qualities' have undoubtedly helped him to achieve his success.0 -
Timoid. wrote:Cheshley wrote:Any doubts anyone may have had about Lance's ability to ride with the best of them must surely have been put to bed today!!!
I have to disagree. The best of them are Andy who was waiting for Frank and Bertie who was waiting for Lance.
Both are a class above everyone else and could have left the rest of the big boys for dead.
+1
if andy had ridden for the stage with contador following the gaps on gc would be huge from 2nd to 3rd... if frank had sat in and kloden was forced to tow everyone up the gap could have been huge today"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
aurelio wrote:
Agreed. I had him down for a top ten place, but he definitely looked the third strongest in the race. The fact that Wiggins lost that time early on probably didn't change a thing as he was dying at the top of the climb and I am sure Armstrong could have found something more if their positions had been reversed. All in all, an impressive performance.Moray Gub wrote:Looking at it objectively - and that can be difficult for a lot of anti lance fanboys - irrespective of the shite he spouts to finish 3rd is very impressive
Of course Armstrong is still a bully, an egotist, is manipulative, vindictive, a control freak, exploits and feeds and-French xenophobia, has been one of the main enforcers of cycling’s doping omerta and has been scientifically proven to be a doper himself (at least in the past), but credit where credit is due. And after all, he has found his forte in a dog-eat-dog, drug-ridden competitive sport where his 'personal qualities' have undoubtedly helped him to achieve his success.
he finished higher than i thought and all... the guy who first time posted that lance wasn't going to fade as quickly as others around him was pretty much on the money..."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
37 or not, he didn't win the tour 7 times because he's crap!!! The man gets my total respect as does Wiggo, the schlecks and bertie. 8)0
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aurelio wrote:
Agreed. I had him down for a top ten place, but he definitely looked the third strongest in the race. The fact that Wiggins lost that time early on probably didn't change a thing as he was dying at the top of the climb and I am sure Armstrong could have found something more if their positions had been reversed. All in all, an impressive performance.Moray Gub wrote:Looking at it objectively - and that can be difficult for a lot of anti lance fanboys - irrespective of the shite he spouts to finish 3rd is very impressive
Of course Armstrong is still a bully, an egotist, is manipulative, vindictive, a control freak, exploits and feeds and-French xenophobia, has been one of the main enforcers of cycling’s doping omerta and has been 'scientifically proven' to be a doper himself (at least in the past), but credit where credit is due. And after all, he has found his forte in a dog-eat-dog, drug-ridden competitive sport where his 'personal qualities' have undoubtedly helped him to achieve his success.
Now tell us what you really think0 -
mgcycleguy wrote:Wiggins just twittered that he had a picture of Tom Simpson on his top tube !!!!
sorry guys but that is just pure class, beyond normal sport... stuff of legend
+1 Indeed.
I am pretty proud to be british today (for once). Nice to know we can still do class.
Regarding Lance hats off to an impressive performance although I do think Schleck the younger would have gapped him if he did not keep waiting for schleck the older. Still pretty good for a 37 year old who has been out for years and broke his collar bone etc (On no! I sound like sherwin! ITV gis a job?)It’s the most beautiful sport in the world but it’s governed by ***ts who have turned it into a crock of ****.0 -
He only finished on the podium courtesy of 40 seconds he was lucky enough to gain earlier on.
Secondly, I'm very suspicious of his improvement over the course of the Tour. I suspect there's a good reason why Wiggins faded relatively to him on two key stages. Maybe he wanted to do this Tour to try and prove that he was a half-decent rider without the cheating but unfortunately many will never trust him for what he's almost certainly done in the past and I think when it came to it his ego would be too large not to succumb to temptation when it appeared he wasn't going to finish in the top five even.0 -
Isn't that how the whole thing, you know, works?pedalpower wrote:He only finished on the podium courtesy of 40 seconds he was lucky enough to gain earlier on.Making a cup of coffee is like making love to a beautiful woman. It's got to be hot. You've got to take your time. You've got to stir... gently and firmly. You've got to grind your beans until they squeak.
And then you put in the milk.0 -
aurelio wrote:
Agreed. I had him down for a top ten place, but he definitely looked the third strongest in the race. The fact that Wiggins lost that time early on probably didn't change a thing as he was dying at the top of the climb and I am sure Armstrong could have found something more if their positions had been reversed. All in all, an impressive performance.Moray Gub wrote:Looking at it objectively - and that can be difficult for a lot of anti lance fanboys - irrespective of the shite he spouts to finish 3rd is very impressive
Of course Armstrong is still a bully, an egotist, is manipulative, vindictive, a control freak, exploits and feeds anti-French xenophobia, is a complete corporate whore, has been one of the main enforcers of cycling’s doping omerta and has been 'scientifically proven' to be a doper himself (at least in the past), but credit where credit is due. And after all, he has found his forte in a dog-eat-dog, drug-ridden, brutally competitive sport where his 'personal qualities' have undoubtedly helped him to achieve his success.
Having just popped into see what the Anti LA brigade are saying about the masters unbeleivable performance....10 months training after 4 years off the bike...broken collar bones etc...coming on 38 year old...and still 3rd....superhuman.
And yet we still have this fud spouting all this insanity....what a real pity this particular section of bikeradar has reached such depths and has discouraged so many from input.0 -
My own verdict was 'All in all, an impressive performance. 'RICHYBOYcp wrote:just popped into see what the Anti LA brigade are saying about the masters unbeleivable performance....
As for the rest, point out which part you disagree with and I will furnish you with some illustrations to support what I say.
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What do you think about Bruyneel and Armstrong's persistent undermining and public belittling of his team leader throughout the race?
Do you think that behaviour is fitting of 'the master'?0 -
He called you a fud. Are you going to take that? 0
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I'm guessing that unless he's from central scotland he will be puzzled as to why another poster called him a rabbit's tail!0
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Rabbits tail???? eh? no, no, no fud means a big, soft, hairy.......... 0
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mmitchell88 wrote:
Isn't that how the whole thing, you know, works?pedalpower wrote:He only finished on the podium courtesy of 40 seconds he was lucky enough to gain earlier on.
No, not really. 40 seconds gaps for main GC contenders on flat stages is pretty unusual and has to be considered canny, yes, but also pretty lucky. Certainly didn't have much to do with the physical strength of the riders.0 -
Fastlad wrote:Rabbits tail???? eh? no, no, no fud means a big, soft, hairy..........
Ah yes - I am fully aware he was calling the other guy a 'lady's front bottom' (i.e. "did you hear about the trans-sexual who jumped off the cliff? He landed with a fud")
however, as I say, I am pretty sure that colloquialism is unique to Scotland and anyone from outwith oor wee country will only know that that word describes the arse end of a rabbit.0 -
3 stages where you had timed splits in the peloton and Armstrong was on the right side of all 3.
Besides, its all conjecture saying if he hadn't gained 40s there then he wouldn't be 3rd, because you react and ride according to the circumstances you are in at that time, not 'what they would have been if you hadn't gained that time'.
So really nobody can say how things would have played out had LA not been in that early split, you defend the position you have,0
