Stage 16 - Martigny > Bourg St Maurice SPOILER

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Comments

  • teagar
    teagar Posts: 2,100
    frenchfighter wrote:
    As Vasseur said this is likely tactical on Lance's part.

    Other cases is simply he is not one to respond to acceleration like Sastre.

    What you miss is the way that A. he was the instigator of the move to rejoin. B. he was the first to rejoin. C. he rejoined fast - climbing out the saddle well. D. he rejoined solo whereas the others rejoined in a group.

    One of the Schlecks should have gone again, although I tihnk tomorrow is a better day for an substantial attack. Even Wiggins maybe as he looked VERY comfortable.

    Depends how confident a decender Wiggins is.

    I doubt any of the main GC contedors were willing to risk a tricky decent for a measly few seconds.
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    edited July 2009
    The descent tomorrow is 15km whereas today's was 30km. Friday's descent is 16km. I think those are more appealing, although any lead is hard to make back on a descent.

    Just annoyed I will miss what may well be the best stage tomorrow as I am travelling out to watch stages 18, 19, 20.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    I thought he was supposed to be toast today. Tomorrow for sure, huh? If not then, maybe day after?

    So, where is the quote for that, Dennis? Should be simple to find.....
    Then again, if it was never said.
    Stop WUMing for the sake of it.
    If he is toast tomorrow, are you going to apologise for being a tool, or go on vacation for a few days?
    I will applaud his performance, if same time, demain, he's still on the podium elect.

    You've lost me on the quote thing.
    Not a clue what WUMing is.
    Tomorrow I will apoligize for being a tool. Not sure how to do it, but will try.
    Call me old and half brain dead, but I don't understand your last sentence.
  • Stuey01
    Stuey01 Posts: 1,273
    demain= tomorrow in french.
    Not climber, not sprinter, not rouleur
  • Fastlad
    Fastlad Posts: 908
    frenchfighter wrote:
    The descent tomorrow is 15km whereas today's was 30km. Friday's descent is 16km. I think those are more appealing, although any lead is hard to make back on a descent.

    Just annoyed I will miss what may well be the best stage tomorrow as I am travelling out to watch stages 18, 19, 20.

    I'm just annoyed it's YOU and not me going to watch the stages.....Frenchie :roll: Ain't life a bitch?
  • teagar
    teagar Posts: 2,100
    I have my graduation ceremony tomorow so I'm missing it too :cry:
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    edited July 2009
    Fastlad wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    The descent tomorrow is 15km whereas today's was 30km. Friday's descent is 16km. I think those are more appealing, although any lead is hard to make back on a descent.

    Just annoyed I will miss what may well be the best stage tomorrow as I am travelling out to watch stages 18, 19, 20.

    I'm just annoyed it's YOU and not me going to watch the stages.....Frenchie :roll: Ain't life a *****?

    LOL I made sure my start date for my job was after the Tour as opportunities to sit watch every stage at home or live of the greatest race in the World don't come up very often!

    Congratulations teagar!
    Contador is the Greatest
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Stuey01 wrote:
    demain= tomorrow in french.

    thanx, that helps. I know zero French, and some would say my English(or is that British)
    isn't up to par either.
  • Le Commentateur
    Le Commentateur Posts: 4,099
    D. he rejoined solo whereas the others rejoined in a group.
    It could be argued that it was because he was more anxious to get back whereas the others knew they were going to get back before the top. Efficiency of effort over the full length of the remaining climb.

    As for fooling Saxo Bank, I don't buy it. The better tactic is to keep them guessing by sticking with them (if he can) until there isn't enough road left for them to bother attacking. Those sorts of out-of-the-saddle bridging back efforts have to be paid for, however impressive they look on TV.
    Un uomo solo al commando
  • Cumulonimbus
    Cumulonimbus Posts: 1,730
    Armstrong was 9th up to Verbier. Today he seemed to be 7th out of the main contenders. Some of the others could have gone faster but guessed it would come back together. However, it seems that he has the same or slightly better ability relative to the others that he had up to Verbier.
  • Quite Frankly
    Quite Frankly Posts: 386
    Paul got very excited when Lance went solo. Wetting himself he was.
  • drenkrom
    drenkrom Posts: 1,062
    teagar wrote:
    Depends how confident a decender Wiggins is.

    He must be pretty zippy, as Contador commented on French TV right after the stage that Wiggo had been the only one to cause them a little problem on the downhill. He was often on the front, too.
  • Moomaloid
    Moomaloid Posts: 2,040
    Quite Frankly wrote:
    Paul got very excited when Lance went solo. Wetting himself he was.

    Lol! I was just gonna say it sounded like he was in full on Mastur' mode didn't it! :?
  • skavanagh.bikeradar
    skavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    Oh crap. I'm still at work and I'm going to have to sit through highlights with the ITV4 commentary.....defo using Eurosport tomorrow afternoon.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,874
    Stuey01 wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    Stuey01 wrote:
    [
    Depends on how you looked at it. Armstrong struggled and was gapped by 30 seconds .

    nobody has ever been gapped for any amount of time...

    If you are going to quote, please do it accurately, I did not write what you have attributed to me.

    :?:
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    stagehopper wrote:
    Armstrong looked impressive when bridging up later on a flatter section but was soon followed by the likes of Kirchen, Van de Velde and a host of others suggesting that the pace of the front six may have slackened off.

    He was being followed the whole way buy VDV et al. Even when he passed Schleck like a rocket Frank was back on his wheel quite quickly.

    It was a good ride but if Andy and Alberto were properly duking it out I expect it would've looked very different.

    Tomorrow Saxo need to turn the gas on big time on 2nd last climb. They need to shred the group to a minimum, waiting til the last climb would be disappointing. And there's not a significant distance between them.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Philip S
    Philip S Posts: 398
    My take on it was Lance struggled on the steep stuff - just couldn't stay with the Schleck attacks, but he's still got the power and the determination to charge after them once it got onto the gentler gradients at the top. By that point, there was no point A Schleck attacking as everyone would have followed. The pace slowed and everyone within 45 seconds got back on - even VDV looked like he was flying on that section.

    Fireworks tomorrow. 8)

    Get well soon Jens. :cry:
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    drenkrom wrote:
    teagar wrote:
    Depends how confident a decender Wiggins is.

    He must be pretty zippy, as Contador commented on French TV right after the stage that Wiggo had been the only one to cause them a little problem on the downhill. He was often on the front, too.

    That wasn't due to his quick descending though, it's cos he started singing "That's Entertainment" at the top of his voice as he screamed through the group.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    edited October 2012
    Fair trade bananas :D
    Contador is the Greatest
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    Pah! Just watched the highlights as Phil and Paul fawned over Armstrong getting back on the lead group and then saying Sastre was "lucky" to do so, because the lead group had slowed down.

    Assholes. I want Europsport.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • hagrin
    hagrin Posts: 3
    Had to join the site here to join the discussion - hello everyone. I enjoyed the analysis others stated above and have been reading these last few days. Here's how I saw today's final climb -

    1) It's obvious Bertie, Andy and Wiggins are all a notch above everyone else when it comes to accelerating on the climbs. I think you could throw Kloden in that group, but he seems to have "other team duties" - he almost looks torn out there as to what to do.

    2) It's clear to me that Saxo isn't going to be strong enough to crack Bertie and losing Jens won't help any. The Sorensens put in a lot of effort today with no payoff at all and I can't see them putting in that type of effort again tomorrow making Saxo pretty weak when it comes to setting the pace needed to crack the leaders. Frank also didn't have what it took today to lead Andy out against Bertie and I think that's why the attacks failed and were speculative. Had Frank been on form I think the attacks would have been more convincing from Andy because Saxo put so much energy into that lead out.

    3) The one point I didn't see talked about was that when Armstrong finally bridged the gap, Contador pulled over to the side to let LA/Kloden lead out, but they never did. I'm sure Bertie wasn't too pleased by that and I really don't think LA is "riding for Contador", but is still concerned more about the podium finish. LA is happy to let Bertie ride on his wheel when there is no action, but the minute there is a separation it's every rider for himself.

    4) Tactically, I'm not sure LA bridging the gap was beneficial to Contador. If anything, it allowed a whole bunch of riders to sit on his wheel back to the breakout. Bertie has Kloeden with him, a third rider who didn't answer any attacks really wasn't beneficial to protecting the yellow and only brought some other contenders with that lead breakout.

    5) While I don't really like LA's move tactically, I do think the move does show LA's ability going forward. He can't hang with Bertie, Andy and Wiggins currently, but he can hang with basically everyone else and without too much distress. As the TdF goes on, he's only going to get stronger as the "bounce" in the younger rider's legs starts to fade and the strong Astana team and great tempo riding take over. I know many point to the fact the break slowed down and it's a great point, but I do think it shows LA isn't going to fade like many predicted.


    Speedy recovery to Jens.
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    Congrats to Astarloza, I like the Euskaltel team, and it's nice to see them rescue what has been a fairly forgettable season so far.

    Here's hoping for Martinez to get into a break that Pellizotti can't follow tomorrow.
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    iainf72 wrote:
    stagehopper wrote:
    Armstrong looked impressive when bridging up later on a flatter section but was soon followed by the likes of Kirchen, Van de Velde and a host of others suggesting that the pace of the front six may have slackened off.

    He was being followed the whole way buy VDV et al. Even when he passed Schleck like a rocket Frank was back on his wheel quite quickly.

    It was a good ride but if Andy and Alberto were properly duking it out I expect it would've looked very different.
    Andy was climbing with hands off the bar adjusting his sunglasses when Armstrong got back to the group with his burst effort.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,874
    hagrin wrote:

    5) While I don't really like LA's move tactically, I do think the move does show LA's ability going forward. He can't hang with Bertie, Andy and Wiggins currently, but he can hang with basically everyone else and without too much distress. As the TdF goes on, he's only going to get stronger as the "bounce" in the younger rider's legs starts to fade and the strong Astana team and great tempo riding take over. I know many point to the fact the break slowed down and it's a great point, but I do think it shows LA isn't going to fade like many predicted.
    .

    you reckon he is going to hang on to the podium? I see Kloden coming over the top

    Andy has a real problem with the TT which may help him but nibali may surprise
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • flattythehurdler
    flattythehurdler Posts: 2,314
    FWIW, I am far from a lance fan, but have admired his courage over the past 2 days. On Sunday he finished the climb like I always do with drool from his mouth to his bars (compare to AC). I do think that the other main contenders were keeping the powder dry til today as once again the hills were neutered bythe long downhill finish. I expect AC will fire today and shell out everyone. The interesting battle will be for the podium places.
    Dan
  • flattythehurdler
    flattythehurdler Posts: 2,314
    Fastlad wrote:
    Fantastic ride from Lance....if anything, getting stronger!! The biggest surprise for me? The modfather! :shock: I'd like to know what he's on! Call me cynical but the guy's hanging with some elite climbers, uncharacteristically (my thats a big word!)

    If it is any consolation I had coffee with friend yesterday who is very high up in British Cycling, and the ultimate cynic, and not Wiggo's greatest fan, but he reckon's he is clean, which is good enough for me. Says he looks like he has just left (actually I don't like to use the comparison) he has lost so much weight.
    Dan

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