Stage 14 - Colmar - Besancon SPOILER

aurelio_-_banned

afx237vi wrote:

Here is the rule:

2.3.036 Riders shall be strictly forbidden to deviate from the lane they selected when launching into the sprint and, in so doing, endangering others.

Does he deviate from his line? Debatable. Does he endanger others? IMO, absolutely not.

He kept his line, but that line was apparently intended to take Hushovd into the barriers. If no crash resulted that was because Hushovd reacted to the danger created by slowing up / braking!

mmitchell88

teagar wrote:

Had Cavendish not looked over at Hushovd just before Hushovd got squeezed (for whatever reason), I think he'd have a stronger case...

nods

flattythehurdler

aurelio wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Hold a ruler up to your pictures 4 and 5 and measure the width of the road at various points (particularly where Cav is in picture 4). It proves there's a bulge.

It also proves that Cavendish moves to the right with respect to the centre line, much more in fact than the road 'bulges' in from the right.

Also Cavendish had already started his move to shut the door on Hoshovd well before the 'bulge'. it looks like he picked his line knowing full well that Hushovd was on his right and that if he stayed where he was Hushovd would be forced straight into the barrier.

Aurelio, why don't you get your little ruler out if you can't get the computer to do it for you, and measure the road widths on your photos. (The left hand barrier stays straight). Utter shite decision.

flattythehurdler

Has it escaped people that the reason Cav was trying to control the sprint, rather than his usual crushing of the opposition was to try to keep his teammate in yellow?

teagar

flattythehurdler wrote:

Has it escaped people that the reason Cav was trying to control the sprint, rather than his usual crushing of the opposition was to try to keep his teammate in yellow?

How do you control a sprint? :?:

flattythehurdler

Badly

flattythehurdler

Actually by doing the least possible to ensure the "win", rather than the flat out train and launch, which would have taken time out of hicapie (who is a world class whinger btw)

nick hanson

teagar wrote:

flattythehurdler wrote:

Has it escaped people that the reason Cav was trying to control the sprint, rather than his usual crushing of the opposition was to try to keep his teammate in yellow?

How do you control a sprint? :?:

I've not had the option of looking at numerous replays,as am now at work (nightshift),but it did look to me as though Cav was trying for a slow sprint,to aid Hincappie for the yellow.
I thought at the time,that as thr DS,in the last couple of K's,I'd have told the team to take a rest,let Cav go against Thor,man o mano (or whatever Ligget says!),& hope Hincappie kept his advantage.
By this point in the stage (12 already finished),they were only sprinting for the differance of ONE point,not the difference of first & second
I know it seems easy to say with hindsight,But a DS is paid to make these calls as the event unfolds.
In a straightforward sprint,Hushovd doesn't beat Cav,& Cav's ds knows this.

Philip S

BdeB wrote:

If you watch it again Columbia are doing everything they can to slow it down until the last 500m and that was not 6 seconds worth of speed.

Isn't it really bad form to slow the chasing group down? Much like sticking a man into the front of a chasing peleton to disrupt the through and off? Perhaps not the letter of the law and all that, but "disrespectful" to the rest of the field?

naive

Some observations:

1) Stills do not show a very accurate picture; they miss the vital aspect of speed, and relative speed. From watching the overhead, full-speed video, the point where the gap between Cav and the barrier is smallest is at a time when he appears to be accellerating away from Thor, so he is not obstructing him. Presumably, this is the point where Thor says he had to slam on the brakes, but he does not seem to use the levers nor to reduce the pressure on the pedals,

2) It seems to be normal practice on sprints with a lead-out that the lead out rider will peel off in one direction, but at the same time, the sprinter will deviate slightly in the other direction as he accelerates off, so Cav would be expected to move slightly to the right at that point. (not sure how the sprinting rules should be interpreted in these circumstances, but if this is against the rules, we need to go back and disqualify a few riders).

3) The view from the finish-line looking back towards the sprinters on the VT shown on the TV (ITV4) certainly makes it look like there is enough room to pass on the right if Thor puts some effort in to it (in a bus).

4) The closest Cav and Thor get appears to be just after they cross the line--at this point, Thor seems to have plenty of room for a big swerve in from the right hand side for a bit of a chat. Perhaps Cav swerved violently to his right to endanger Thor, then violently back to his left so he could come up along side him at the finish.

5) Cav looking over his shoulders is the one thing that makes his finish look bad. I suspect that that may have had something to do with wanting the best result for George.

6) What time was Cavendish given? Was it the time of the last rider, or was he given the group time and just lost his placing? If he was given a time penalty, does anyone think a GC contenter in the (unlikely) position of being in similar circumstance would ever get the same penalty? I doubt Lance would.

7) Definining the correct direction for the sprint "lane" is a little troublesome. If you have one barrier on the left, and one on the right which is parallel to that (and thus by definition a fixed distance away), and any lines on the road are also parallel, then it should be obvious. If anything is not parallel, then a rider following the nearest directional prompt may feel that another is encroaching even if he is following the correct line from his point of view.

8 ) The comments of Martin Bruin in the post-race interview undermine the legitimacy of this DQ. It's almost as if Wiggins was rude about him and his cohorts rocking up and getting paid to quaff vino, so he thought he'd take it out on the next Brit with a sniff of success.

( PS, I don't do "emoticons" so you have to guage the seriousness of each comment using your own judgement)

mgcycleguy

Philip S wrote:

BdeB wrote:

If you watch it again Columbia are doing everything they can to slow it down until the last 500m and that was not 6 seconds worth of speed.

Isn't it really bad form to slow the chasing group down? Much like sticking a man into the front of a chasing peloton to disrupt the through and off? Perhaps not the letter of the law and all that, but "disrespectful" to the rest of the field?

...and this is if you ask me the real reason for the DQ... the barriers issue is just an excuse.

nick hanson

naive wrote:

Some observations:



8 ) The comments of Martin Bruin in the post-race interview undermine the legitimacy of this DQ. It's almost as if Wiggins was rude about him and his cohorts rocking up and getting paid to quaff vino, so he thought he'd take it out on the next Brit with a sniff of success.

( PS, I don't do "emoticons" so you have to guage the seriousness of each comment using your own judgement)

I did think at the time that Wiggo was rather silly spouting off about those "on £170 a day Plus expenses" (or something very close to those words, ISTR)
Not that i think this has influenced Martin Bruin's judgement,no sir :?

wreckedmyklein

"Sharp, very sharp!

I am sure that the judges are better qualified than me to make such a decision."

good old aurelio. hypocrite to the last

what - including Armstrong never failing an official test and hence never banned or disqualified.

aurelio_-_banned

flattythehurdler wrote:

Aurelio, why don't you get your little ruler out if you can't get the computer to do it for you, and measure the road widths on your photos. (The left hand barrier stays straight).

I have done that and whilst the right-hand barrier may not be completely straight Cavendish also moves across to the right, away from the centreline and towards the infamous 'bulge' when he sees Hushovd beginning to pass him on the right!

He also moves way to the right of his lead out man, well before he has any need to. (Other than to block Hushovd that is). His lead-out man does keep a proper line!

I am sure of one thing. If the position were reversed and Hushovd had taken the Green jersey away from Cavendish by virtue of riding as Cavendish did, all those trying to excuse Cavendish's behaviour and invent fantastic reasons for his behaviour (he was trying to slow the sprint in order to put Hincapie into Yellow and other such nonsense), would be baying for Hushovd to be disqualified!

aurelio_-_banned

wreckedmyklein wrote:

"Sharp, very sharp! I am sure that the judges are better qualified than me to make such a decision."

good old aurelio. hypocrite to the last

what - including Armstrong never failing an official test and hence never banned or disqualified.

I had thought that the fact of Armstrong's doping was a matter of science and evidence, not the interpretation of rules by a judge!

campagchris

Ok if as you say Hushovd braked how did he still finish next man to cav?.When any sprinter will tell you hit the brakes and lose 30 places.

didnt hushovd try to box cav.behind a lead out man earlier in the week,cav just leant on him to move him.

If you watch from the finish line down the road you can plainly see the kink in the road.Look when Roche comes in then the rest of them.
as someone said earlier this boils down to wether you like cav. or not.
Hushovd would never have come past cav.Again as someone said positions should have been reversed if there was an injustice,to me there wasn't.
Why can't they appeal after all Garmin and Astana appealed about the 15 seconds,and rightly so.This whole thing stinks.